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Pine Knoll

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« on: July 18, 2016, 09:20:25 PM »

I have never in my life said that ... .but I can't imagine meaning it more. I have been in a relationship with my wife for nearly 30 yrs; and I finally, just last week finally figured out that my wife (we) is suffering from BPD. She does not know any of this; I shared my thoughts with our martial therapist (the second one we have had and who we started seeing about a month and a half ago - our martial therapist also shares an office with my wife's individual therapist (my wife has been seeing her for about a year)). Our marital therapist said all she could say to confirm my suspicion and told me I needed to seek professional help - I am, but I can't get in to see a therapist for another week and I have nearly desperate feeling that I need to talk to someone so I turned here (in the course of therapy that day after I came to this realization my wife had just agreed not to talk to our respective families at all for a month - to "quiet" things emotionally - I want to honor that promise, but I feel so alone now - more alone than I have ever felt - desperately alone). I wish it were not true (that my wife has this condition), but I have never been so sure of something in my life. I keep reading and reading, more and more, and it is undeniable - what I read simultaneously seems to devastate me and save me.   As I read about BPD for the first time almost exactly a week ago, it was like my entire life crystallized and made sense to me in a way if never did ... .not for more than 20 years. There is so much going through my head ... .what do I with with what I know; how do I protect my daughters (11 & 13) who have begun to become the target and victim of the behaviors; what do I do; I can't stay in this relationship any longer, but how do I get out with a things exploding beyond control; is leaving the relationship the best thing I can do for my daughters; will I better be able to protect them if I stay in the relationship ... .all things questions I keep cycling through. I love my wife, at her core I know she is a good person which is why I have been trying for so long to make things ok and bring her peace; now I know why I have never been able to succeed. I am nearly 50 now and all I want in my life is love and peace, and fear I will never know that if I stay ... .I need help. Thank you for being here.

GR
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Lilyroze
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2016, 09:34:21 PM »

  Hello Green River,

I am glad you found the board, though sorry for the reason you need to be here. Welcome to bpdfamily!

Seems like you have had a rough time of it lately. How did you feel when your marital counselor confirmed a few things for you?

There is a family section where they can help you with some insight and guidance for your daughters.

There are some great tools on the side, book recommendations and some great articles that might be of some help whilst you wade through this.

The book Stop Walking On Egg Shells is great.  As well as The High-Conflict Couple: A Dialectical Behavior Therapy Guide to Finding Peace, Intimacy, and Validation

 There are some great books on dealing with a BPD or NPD mother which might help you in looking for signs or how to deal with your children and how her actions might have affected them.

Are the children in counseling?

Are you planning on staying and finding a course of action for you all?

Or planning on leaving? From your post seems like so but confused maybe? They might move this to another board then that might help you more with responses based on your thoughts and needs.

I hope you find some answers, some help and find some peace on your journey.

Keep posting and getting your story out it will be therapeutic as well as some might have some insight for you.
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Pine Knoll

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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2016, 09:56:05 PM »

Thank you, I really appreciate the kind, gentle words. It has been a hard journey - so many ups and downs over the last week I ham exhausted. My number one priority is my daughters (although I suppose it should be me ... .so I can be all that I need to be for them? ... .and not taking care of myself better may have helped lead me down this path?) ... .as you can see, my thought process still "noisy" and has not settled down. The problem is my gut tells me I need to leave, but it has been so long since I have trusted my gut, I am afraid to. I have been conditioned for so long to think it was wrong and to come up with reasons to believe it was wrong (so I could see things the way my wife saw them). Also, I fear I will feel like I am abandoning my daughters and leaving them behind in an unsafe place (I can not imagine trying get 100% custody - it would not only crush my wife it it would crush them to ... .she is a good person and has, like all BPD, has had her good moments. And our girls are still mentally healthy, I am confident in that (although they have been saying things like ... "why is Mom being so mean, I did not do anything" more and more often - maybe with support they can weather the storm and still have my wife in their lives (which I know they would want). Trying to find peace and set my daughter on a btter journey than I have traveled. 
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Lilyroze
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2016, 10:16:42 PM »


Excerpt
Also, I fear I will feel like I am abandoning my daughters and leaving them behind in an unsafe place

I see you have been in the FOG for awhile ( Fear Obligation and Guilt). Now you must start to heal you. You are important in the equation as well. Take time for you, your health, well being mental and physical.  (reminder to self as well... .)

I have heard from other members if you start reading the books, and articles here to maybe not confront her on the BPD, as it can escalate. I see you are worried right now about escalation.

If I might suggest going on the family part and posting as well, they might have some insight on how to handle for the children. There is a legal section of the board that can help you if you happen to go that route.

I am a daughter of a UBPD/ UNPD it was a nightmare. I don't begrudge my Dad for staying with her, but she did affect my life quite a bit. It was why I chose the partners I did, put up with abuse as it was a FOO pattern.

I do love many in my FOO ( family of origin), am close to so many. As an adult I am responsible for my own happiness, well being, that of my children and needed to heal that.

 It would have been lot easier had my Dad called my Mom on some of her behaviour, but alas I see why he didn't and never has. I do love him dearly.

You must do what is best for you as well, you are worthy of love and peace being in your life and home.

If you can use the tools and counseling to work with her great, if you have to leave then you must do what is best for you.

Are there some goals you have in mind for your health or you, that you can start and get some of your energy and thought pattern back?

Take small steps and you will get a little reprieve to think things through.

Keep posting and reading here, and find some peace and rest this week.

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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2016, 10:46:53 PM »

Welcome Green River. I am a recent member to the group after 24 years of marriage. I started therapy to deal with the crisis of my H's suicide attempt and she also told me about his fitting the borderline pattern. It's been a little over a month now but I remember the feelings you are going through strongly. It feels very urgent to deal with this now, but it's ok to pace yourself. You can wait a week for therapy. You can think about the kids. You can prepare in case you decide to leave. Take your time. Get yourself healthier.

In books I've read, Stop Walking on Eggshells (about family relationship to a pwBPD), When Someone You Love Has Mental Illness, and NAMI documents, there are normal reactions you'll have. Confusion is one of them. Trying to find out everything you can about the diagnosis is another. Keep posting and trying to figure it out. It helps.
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Hlinthewiking
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2016, 01:10:53 AM »

Welcome Racer. I'm also a new member and the people in here are definitely helping me to cope.

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Pine Knoll

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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2016, 06:20:13 AM »

Thank you all so much for you thoughts and suggestions and sharing your experiences. As shaken as I am I also do now know that I am on a path to healing and finding the peace I have always wanted in my life. It is also I a switch has gone off - all of a sudden I can listen to my wife complain about me, twist things, suggest outlandinsh things and just listen, separate from it and better remain calm. I have used some of the communication methods suggested by other sources and they really help. I can feel her calming down (or at least pausing until she things of something else to complain about or lash out about). It was amazing, when my therapist confirmed my suspicion/fear it was like a light when off - everything that I had never been able to make sense of in my life (in regards to my relationship with my wife) made perfect sense and was crystal clear - my world made sense, it was like I found the solution to a bizarre physics problem I had been working on 20 years - the greatest eureka moment of my life... .then the reality set it.  I am so happy this community is here. I know, to my core of my being, I will be OK (ultimately), but I do know I have all more to go to get there; your advice to be patient is good advice, great advice. I think I knew that but to hear someone else suggest it helps greatly. I have been traveling through and surviving this experience for 20 years (which has not always been as bad as it has been for the last two years, but as I look back it has always been there but just to lesser and greater degrees time - my wife's BPD has been up and down throughout our lives together (depending up on stress in her life), but trending up overall and has gotten too very bad in the last two years (started as soon as we moved to our new home)... I can be patient (a skill have have learned over a very long time. 

I have so much to learn and want to hear (and share). I will be back ... (I have my day job ;-))... thank you again.  GR
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Lilyroze
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2016, 03:37:57 PM »

  Green River,

The Thought moment is so awesome. I remember after I could put a name to this, and a dear loved one talking with me about it, that it was like nailing jello to the wall. For some reason naming the condition, reading up about it and those magic words, truly changed my life.

I accepted so much guilt, shame, trying to fix everything, rages, desregulation, craziness, blaming from my Mom and my  and sbxUNBPD. I always tried to be the optimist, happy, ,if I could make them happy, or excuse the behavior ( they were sick, worked, busy,) etc then all would be OK. It never was.

 I am an empath so spiritually wanted to help absorb their pain, be the better one. Now I realized I spent so much time trying to fix me, take the blame when I wasn't the one with the problem.

I tried being in the Zen, tai chi, exercising, in my Christian faith,  being the better one, read self help books the gamut. Don't get me wrong it helped me, I enjoy being centered and grounded and loving. At same time I now realize I am important, I deserve love, respect, care and integrity.

Sure we can always be better then the day before, learn, grow, be the better one. But that is in healthy relationships with someone meeting you half way, not abuse. I had to heal and learn I deserve better, and darn it am done with the rages etc. They know certain ones not to do that to, and now that can't with me anymore ( reminder to self... . Smiling (click to insert in post) )

To me they usually never take blame, can't meet half way, say they are sorry and truly mean it, put someone else first, see the damage they do and the list goes on. Being a non I don't like to paint anyone black, not give second to 20th chances... .Laugh out loud (click to insert in post), meet half way, be the bigger one, so I always had an excuse for their behavior or what I could do to make it better.

That was my detriment. I had to learn to heal from that, one step at a time.  You will as well, you signed up here, posted and are on your way.

Self respect, self love, self care and put and enforce boundaries. No abuse whatsoever anymore.

My Mom has given me the silent treatment for years now, no matter how many flowers, notes, calls I made. It was because I was always the scape goat, always wrong, always going out of my way for her no matter what she did. Once I kindly put up boundaries, she gave me silent treatment and treats me as if I am dead. That is fine, I will accept her as she is. I love her and appreciate her for giving me life, I forgive her, just don't like what she does. I am fine with it now. I have always had my Grandparents, Aunts& Uncles, cousins, and my Dad, my children and dear friends. That is good enough for me Smiling (click to insert in post)

Keep reading, and use the tools as you have started, and if it helps you save relationship great. If you feel you must go then do what you need for you.

Take your power back, and never give it up again. Start healing you, find things you enjoy, find the joy in the day, put up your boundaries for you and above all else find peace.

 Make sure you take time to make your plan, and start your journey.

You can now put a name to it, have the tools, and have the desire to use them for you and your children's sake. Very admirable.

Blessings,


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Pine Knoll

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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2016, 11:40:18 PM »

Dear Lilyroze,

Thank you for your response. Your words ring true and make me cry. I hope (and do believe) some day I will get past this.

Tonight I am struggling with a form of guilt that I never expect to experience. I have learned so much in a week. I have started using some of the communication tools/phrases recommend here and on various websites for communicating with my wife ... like "I hear you", "I understand you", "I will always love you" (which is absolutely true) - among other things ... to calm her and deflect her criticisms and irrational thoughts about me.

She has been "raging" recently and I just need it to "quiet" down. It was worked better than I could have imagined and she has even said she likes it when I say those things. The problem is follow that by saying she wants me to say I am "all in" and will commit 100% to the relationship and never leave and until I do she will protect herself and not commit to me (and the things I need). I am so careful not to say that I am "all in", but at the same time I an definitely leading her to believe that I am there just to calm her and make the criticisms stop.

At the same time, in my heart and in my soul, I know I have to leave. I suffered physical (and emotional) abuse from my mother at an early age (as did my two younger sisters, of of whom is now dead, effectively from alcoholism). I could "manage" through this relationship with my wife and be feel upset and frightened and but less upset than I have been (now that i understand the problem)... I managed that for nearly 30 yrs, but I don't want to; I just don't want to (I cry every time I type that). I feel so guilty for not putting her before me. I think (and want to believe) I deserve a chance to find the peace I have wanted for so many years; I know if I stay in this relationship I will never find it and I will just be getting by and I will give up on a dream and desire. I could make my wife's life better than it is now, I now I could (now that I know what is going on and how I can help her), but I don't think I have it in me after all these years and I feel horribly guilty for that. I want to be happy but I also want her to be happy ... and I want our daughters to feel safe and happy. I want all of that to be true and I don't know how to do it (and I no now the is no way to do all three - I probably just have to accept that and make a choice, but I have never been faced with that choice).

On one level, I probably sound like a weak pathetic person, andin all honesty, at the moment, I probably am.

Ironically, I just left a corporate reception, were I was ushered about as a "special" person, very senior and important among hundreds in our organization - if they only what a wreck I am and how lost I truly was at the moment, they might not have looked at me the same way.

Green River
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Lilyroze
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 01:02:52 AM »

Green River,

You were honored because you deserve it, they saw and see in you all you have done for their business. Congrats and keep that as a beautiful memory. Don't let the problems with her diminish your well being.

You are not weak or a wreck to want peace, respect, kindness, compassion and a home where there is not constant strife. You are unique, special and deserve that. Believe in yourself. Tonight was proof others believe in you.

Self respect, self care, self love all begin with you. It sounds like you might have abandoned yourself to be her caretaker, the person juggling all emotions in the home to keep peace. I have been where you are.

There is light at the end of the tunnel, but you must have a plan in place for your safety, mental and physical well being.

It sounds like she can't bring to the table what is needed right now, but that doesn't mean she isn't responsible to do that, to try, to get help. You need to take care of you.

Is there some goals, health goals, exercising, a book or something that might bring you some joy right now?

The family part of the board can help you with healing from your FOO, and also in helping you deal with your children and the affects of their BPD mother.

The legal part of the board so you can make a plan if you chose not to stay. I would also suggest some Fathers rights groups and seeking some legal advice as BPD divorces can be high conflict if you go that route.

Also there is a co parenting part of the board once you get to that stage if need be.

Please don't feel guilty about looking out for you now, seems like you have given many years to this and are at the point you really can't deal with the abuse now.

I am glad the tools help you validate her, and that is giving some respite at moment.

Keep posting and us updated many care here. As well as it is very therapeutic and some might have great insight.  
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Pine Knoll

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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2016, 10:43:54 AM »

Dear Lilyroze,

Thank you for the kindness and your words ... and your advise.

My experience here (on this site) has helped me so much already (I never imagined that I needed it so badly); I am hopeful it will continue to help me through this and I am very happy to share my experience (doing this is helping me and I hope it can help another). This is heartbreaking /tricky/challenging/experience.

I am not a dumb guy (not by societal standards), but I was emotionally "ripe" and vulnerable to have allowed this to happen and to have take soo long to figure it out.

My wife and I have to two most amazing young ladies for daughters (totally not biased) and I am so thankful that my wife and I have been able bring them to the world and raise them and share them. They both have the capacity to make the world a better place and that makes me happy. I would do it all again and go through the suffering I have gone through to have them, but I do need more in my life now, I have given all I can to our spousal relationship and for my wife, I need more for myself or I feel like I will die from the inside out if I don't get it. I am learning that and I am so grateful to have this community and resource to now, maybe have the chance to get that opportunity.

Healing, but crying a lot ;-),

GR  
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waverider
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2016, 08:26:57 AM »

Welcome
Green River

One thing I can tell you about your journey of discovery and finding your path is that it is an evolution, not a revolution. No changes come quickly, and the impact of them take a while to sink in.

Will your relationship survive? You can't predict that, neither can you control it.

My best advice is focus on the now and dont try to predict what happens down the track. You can control you and increase your awareness and modify your interaction skills and see were this leads as a first step. You can't fix BPD, but you can remodel the landscape so it is not so bleak.

A good mindset to start with is a commitment to make things work, it will give you the motivation to get to grips with it. If it subsequently fails you will not be left with all the what ifs, as you will know, as you would have tried them. Understanding is best done from the inside.

A lot of our attempts to help actually fuel it.  If you work through these links LESSONS you will start to change the way you react to people in general not just your wife, as it is self improvement in the bigger sense.

Enjoy your time here, help others too, aiding is part of the healing process.

Waverider
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2016, 04:44:43 AM »

 

Hello  Green River,

sorry too to hear about the reason you found this community.
It will surely help you!

So... .first thing to do is to get out of the isolation you are in.
You've given her the power to put you in this situation, now take back this power and get out of it again.

The fact that you are posting, is already a good thing.
What about your family? Are you intimate with them?

All the best! and yes... .see for your kids first, what you can do to protect them better.
you sure will find a lot of help here!

And... .calling Jesus to enter or stay in your heart does help me. Haleluja!
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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2016, 08:52:25 AM »

Welcome GR!  I read something in one of your earlier posts that you felt tremendous guilt for not putting your wife first.  That is a very co-dependent statement.  Since you are here and your wife is not, will you consider researching your own role in this relationship, and to explore your past as well?  There is a reason you are in this situation, in fact I believe all of us have similar reasons as to why we ended up in relationships with partners that have PDs.  I know that the first time someone suggested that I "put myself first" I felt sick to my stomach.  That sounded selfish and it was a concept that I abhorred.  Now that I have learned over time that putting my self first doesn't mean that I put everyone else last, I have begun to flourish in many ways.  I am a better husband, father, businessman, and friend.  It is important that you understand what your wife is going through and to learn validation and the many other concepts on this site, but it is also critical that you reinvent yourself as well.  You are worth that, you deserve it.
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Pine Knoll

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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2016, 07:11:17 PM »

Thank you everyone for being here and sharing. You are kind people and I have been needing "kind" in my life (a lot more of it) for a long time. Just to avoid any confusion, here, I changed my user name to Green River. If my wife ever came across this site and had seen the user name racerx (or a version of it) she may have have identified me and I need to feel more safe (even if that sounds a little paranoid. It has been 12 days since my "awakening" and I while I am far from better and healed, I know I am in the process of recovering and you have offered good advice and counsel.

It is funny, I think I figured out/realized I was co-dependent about two years ago and have already started working on that. Again, a long way to go, but that is OK at least I have better self awareness. Pairing a co-dependent with BPD must be some form of diagnosable self-mutilation ;-) ... Seriously could I have pick someone more challenging to be co-dependent on. Good god, it is painfully funny/ironic to me at the moment.

I have been reading and learning - it is helping. I am close to my family but can not talk to them right now (a promise I made to wife in therapy - suggested by our therapist - my wife is not suppose to talk to her family either - although immediately following the promise she told me she did not think that was fair to her and ask me if I would be OK if she talked to her family - like a sucker I said yes - before my awakening). Anyway, I did finally get to share my experience with a good friend last night (with our therapists OK) and it was amazing. Just talking about it, and saying the things I needed to say and hear myself say it just brought me greater calm.

I have drank and cried myself to sleep every night this week (lucky for me I have been home alone with this week or traveling for business); I finally feel like I am done with that. I will go to sleep tonight with my "eyes open" and in my own skin. Tomorrow I will go for a long bike ride (started training for a century ride). I am sure I will cry once or twice during the ride, but that will be OK. I won't be scared anymore ... .Just hurt, but I can heal from that. So much more I still need to figure out and pass through. I still consider myself one of the luckiest people on the planet for having survived my childhood in the first place (and "thrived" in many ways since then ... .obviosuly not all ways). Anyway, I am rambling.

Thank you to all, I will pass through here often. I know it ... .And I hope some day I can help another as much as you have all helped me.

May we all find peace, GR
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Pine Knoll

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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2016, 07:23:54 PM »

Oh one thing I forgot to mention; I attended a yoga class not too long ago and the instructor read a poem that liken "despair" to a season of life, that like all seasons will pass. I will try to track it down, it may be helpful to people here. The poem rang true to me and I find the concept alone in the abcense of the words of the poem brings me comfort. GR
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2016, 12:50:13 AM »

Codependents are the natural partner for the BPD. We feel attracted to their brokenness and feel that we can help them heal from their hurts if we give enough of ourselves. Only to find out that isn't how BPD or relationships in general work.

I've only recently discovered that my spouse has BPD, he also has severe Bipolar and for many years his meds weren't right. When he finally got the Bipolar well managed it was pretty clear to both of us that the symptoms he was having were BPD. When we know better, we can do better.

I've been in codependency recovery for 7 years or so and consider myself mostly recovered. Though I will forever check myself that my motivations and actions aren't me slipping back into that frame of mind. Codependency recovery is hard and painful. It takes time. Be patient with yourself. Some mindfulness skills would have been great during the early days that were so hard.

It sounds like your main focus needs to be your healing right now. But you can learn some techniques to deescalate and diffuse things with your wife as you've already seen.

It sounds like this revelation has brought up some big emotional stuff for you and triggered you regarding your childhood abuse. Would you agree with that assessment? I wouldn't make any life altering decisions in your current emotional state. Maybe the marriage will work out and maybe it won't but there is much hope for you to find healing either way. Maybe give yourself a reasonable time frame to process all of this and then reevaluate at that time.

I'm glad you found this board and wish you the best on your healing journey. 




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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2016, 02:29:16 AM »

 

Hello Green river,

As long as a river is green, there is life in it!

Myself, I did travel half of this planet.
Every country I hit, I ended up in this weird relationships.
I thought myself being very undependant.
Till I read a book about co-denpendentcy and I said: "This is me".
I now realise that my partners were very much BPD and if they weren't, the rs would be very very short, me leaving heartbroken.

It is good to reflect on myself and learn how I relate to people.

With enough pain I have told my most recent BPD-partner that I must move on alone. I feel shame to have leaned on him, on the other hand he has talked me into a rs using emotional black-mail. I see what he does and he doesn't tend to see it and this is what scares me... .this ain't love.

Anyhow... .I go to a festival here in this neigbourhood and I enjoy feeling free and chatting to whom I want to chat with without a BPD causing trouble, reflecting his fear of being abandoned, on me .

Enjoy the bike-ride and let your emotions flow!
Myself I love to be in the nature too and biking is what I enjoy too and I can do this all by myself.
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