Tired of validation (I exploded)

[Depression = 72% of members]

I had to validate her several times during the day. I was really tired of validating her. And then my wife and I went to a party. We get to the party and it is a blast. It was several of my old high school friends. We were drinking and having a blast. My wife was laughing so hard. She told us to run a football play. We gave it a try and everyone was laughing so hard. I gave her a big hug and kiss. And she said she was ready to go home. So I called a cab. As we are walking to the cab she starts telling me she was ready to go home over an hour ago. And that I was so full of myself that I didn’t even notice. That she hates when I have to be the center of attention. That I was oblivious to her and ignored her all night. I tried to validate all of this. When we got home she went in that she hates when I drink because I insult her and call her names. I got a little mad. I told her that is not true. Which was not validating at all. She went in that I was drunk and that I had no idea what I was saying and that she hates it when I get drunk. I told her that I was drunk. But it was the first time in about a year that I had got drunk. And that I was feeling really good and I just wanted a kiss. She went off that I was disgusting and that I was narcissistic and other things. And then I exploded calling her every name I could think of. I went crazy, telling her I wanted a divorce and that I hated her. I punched a wall and thought I broke my hand. I fell in the floor and just cried until I woke up in the middle of the night. I went and got in bed and in the morning she had recorded most of my crazy rant and played it back for me several times. I had to apologize over and over. It has been a few days and she keeps bringing up that I have a mental problem and need help. I really hate that I can never be right. I can never have my feelings hurt. I can never be upset or angry. I have done this crazy breakdown about once a year for the last three years of our marriage. I love her, but I can’t validate anymore.

[CrazyChuck]

I had to validate her several times during the day. I was really tired of validating her. And then my wife and I went to a party. We get to the party and it is a blast. It was several of my old high school friends. We were drinking and having a blast. My wife was laughing so hard. She told us to run a football play. We gave it a try and everyone was laughing so hard. I gave her a big hug and kiss. And she said she was ready to go home. So I called a cab. As we are walking to the cab she starts telling me she was ready to go home over an hour ago. And that I was so full of myself that I didn’t even notice. That she hates when I have to be the center of attention. That I was oblivious to her and ignored her all night. I tried to validate all of this. When we got home she went in that she hates when I drink because I insult her and call her names. I got a little mad. I told her that is not true. Which was not validating at all. She went in that I was drunk and that I had no idea what I was saying and that she hates it when I get drunk. I told her that I was drunk. But it was the first time in about a year that I had got drunk. And that I was feeling really good and I just wanted a kiss. She went off that I was disgusting and that I was narcissistic and other things. And then I exploded calling her every name I could think of. I went crazy, telling her I wanted a divorce and that I hated her. I punched a wall and thought I broke my hand. I fell in the floor and just cried until I woke up in the middle of the night. I went and got in bed and in the morning she had recorded most of my crazy rant and played it back for me several times. I had to apologize over and over. It has been a few days and she keeps bringing up that I have a mental problem and need help. I really hate that I can never be right. I can never have my feelings hurt. I can never be upset or angry. I have done this crazy breakdown about once a year for the last three years of our marriage. I love her, but I can’t validate anymore.

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[jrharvey]

WOW Chuck I am so sorry to hear that. I don't have any answers but this is something I have gone through so many times. You let your guard down by actually enjoying the night and at the end when you are relaxed and happy she rips into your soul to drag you back down to hell where she always lives. That's what it feels like. I feel like I am climbing out of the pits of hell and when I finally reach the top, breath and think wow this feels good she grabs my leg and pulls me all the way down to the bottom where I burn in fire again. Yup.

I too have been accused of exactly the same things you have and get angry just like you do. Ive been accused of being narcissistic. Maybe its true too. IDK. I know that Borderlines are really attracted to narcissist and vise versa. Narcissist love the neediness of the BPD person and all the attention they give when they are painted white. Borderlines love the strength and power the narcissist show even if it is kinda fake.

What I have noticed is validating doesn't work when she is being abusive. Now when my girlfriend is doing or saying abusive things I call her out on it and refuse to take it in. Each thing she says or does that is abusive I tell her. She may get angry and fight back but I just keep saying it until she gives up. Usually she takes an hour or two to realize she isn't going anywhere with this unless she stops the verbal attacks then actually expresses her feelings like a normal person and then validation works. That's just me though and that's only been about 2 weeks Ive been trying this. Still some slipups on my part. Im trying to make her realize I can be very understanding and validating when she isn't attacking me.

[jrharvey]

Ive also figured out that getting angry, yelling and screaming or punching things is actually a sign of weakness which my BPD girlfriend despises. She cannot stand any form of weakness in a man and she has even admitted that if she can so easily control my emotions then its a huge turnoff and she wants to keep pushing and pushing and pushing until you break. Its so weird to think like that but that's how she thinks. Only way to earn her respect is to call her out on her abuse and leave the situation until she feels regret and wants to make up. Just my opinion. Not fact.

[Skip]

Only way to earn her respect is to call her out on her abuse and leave the situation until she feels regret and wants to make up. Just my opinion. Not fact.

Nobody likes a doormat, but in this case, would you characterize the wife's hurt feelings as abuse? Would telling someone with hurt feelings that they were being abuse works?

Be strong. Don't be weak. You can do that and still be caring and compassionate.

I love her, but I can’t validate anymore.

I don't think you were validating her at all, CrazyChuck. I don't mean to offend - just trying to help the you.

You were mostly being defensive and reacting to her as she was reacting to something else. The most constructive action to take at a time like this is to listen with empathy. Here is a great short video on this: https://bpdfamily.org/2015/02/video-importance-of-empathy-skills-when.html Scotty is a good guy.

Listen to her - without an self-agenda. Take in all in. Tell her you need time to think about it. Follow up 2 days later.

Do you know what was really bothering her - not what she said - what was behind the feelings? If you don't extract that, you won't know know how to circumvent.

I can never have my feelings hurt. I can never be upset or angry.  

As the man of the house, hurt feeling, upset, angry as a response to your wife's hurt feeling will never work. The inverse doesn't work either.

Alan Fruzzetti make a good point in the "High Conflict Couple".  What is more important, being right or doing right by your marriage. It's a big canyon to cross.

[CrazyChuck]

Ive been accused of being narcissistic. Maybe its true too. IDK. I know that Borderlines are really attracted to narcissist and vise versa.

This could be true. I am somewhat narcissistic. One day my wife told me I was going bald on the back of my head. I spent the next 20 minutes trying to get video of the back of my head. I was like in a panic in the bathroom trying to see if it was true. She tried saying it again later and I told her I already checked with video and I am not going bald. She laughed so hard that it was just a joke she was playing on me. I'm sure most people wouldn't have even checked.

[CrazyChuck]

I love her, but I can’t validate anymore.

I don't think you were validating her at all, CrazyChuck. I don't mean to offend - just trying to help the you.

I was not validating this time. I was drunk and validation was not anything I was thinking about this time. But this type situation is very rare. I validate about 6 times a week on average. My wife has never shown regret for anything that I can remember. If I try to come back to an issue, it will really piss her off. So I have to validate and say I am sorry, and that is it. If I try to come back the next day and explain anything she will explode. If I just validate, apologize, and leave it alone. We stay good. It has been months that we had a fight. And it has been about a year that I blew up like this. This time, I was drunk and couldn't validate.

The root problem was my attention. She told me several times before I blew up that she didn't have all my attention. That she expected me to give her all my attention. I validated this the next day when she played the recording. And I had to validate it twice yesterday. And i had to validate it once so far today.

[Skip]

If your caught up in a JADE cycle, she expresses her feeling and you tel her she is wrong (from her perspective) - yes, she won't want to come back and talk about things.

So I have to validate and say I am sorry, and that is it.

This is not validating - this a cowering. Validating would be to listen to her as I said above. Did you watch the video?

If I try to come back the next day and explain anything she will explode. 

Try coming back with something other than an explanation of why she is wrong.  This is what she is seeing. Don't be so defensive. 

She told me several times before I blew up that she didn't have all my attention. That she expected me to give her all my attention. 

She felt uncomfortable, neglected and left-out? Any validity? If you got a do-over, could you have accommodated her and also had fun with your friends?

It's real that people can feel uncomfortable when old friends get together and they are not part of that history and all the insider stories. Even non-BPD people.

I validated this the next day when she played the recording. And I had to validate it twice yesterday. And i had to validate it once so far today. 

It's not helpful to always want to be right. It's equally unhelpful too be over submissive.

This approach is not working - it might be time to try something different.

[jrharvey]

I see the same problem that I had. I don't think validation is the issue. I think its not having a boundary. She was verbally abusive to you and getting angry and hitting things isn't a proper way of putting up a boundary. Its letting her affect you emotionally and physically. She is emotionally controlling you. Setting a boundary would be letting her know she is being abusive and leaving the situation. She has her feelings and they probably should be validated but only when she can speak to you like a human and not like big bully.

What do you think she would do if you said that you would like to talk about this but only when she isn't being abusive?

In my case my GF was ALWAYS right. She just knew everything I did was wrong so she would verbally attack me and call me names and put me down. When I had enough finally I started telling her she was abusive then letting her throw her tantrum by herself while I went out with friends or something. She would threaten all kinds of things like breaking up or moving away but at that point I wished she had. I kind of wanted her to . After a day or even a few hours she would ON HER OWN realize how crazy she was being and apologize. No need to even discuss. I did notice that after she apologized if I talked about her behavior more it would really depress her because she was so ashamed.

I do think I have narcissistic tendencies. If I feel even the slightest attack on my ego I explode. Its tough. She knows where to hurt me too and used it quite a bit. Knowing your weaknesses helps. I now know what triggers me and when to leave. Usually when she triggers me she is being abusive as well.

[CrazyChuck]

What do you think she would do if you said that you would like to talk about this but only when she isn't being abusive? After a day or even a few hours she would ON HER OWN realize how crazy she was being and apologize. No need to even discuss. I did notice that after she apologized if I talked about her behavior more it would really depress her because she was so ashamed.

I have tried this a few times. It really makes my wife angry. She says this is ignoring her feelings. She wants we to address her issues. If I do not, sometimes she will leave. A few times she didn't come back until the next day.

I do think I have narcissistic tendencies. If I feel even the slightest attack on my ego I explode. Its tough. She knows where to hurt me too and used it quite a bit. Knowing your weaknesses helps. I now know what triggers me and when to leave. Usually when she triggers me she is being abusive as well.

She knows the things that hurt my ego and will use them often. I would say lately our relationship is around 85% good.

I feel ashamed I exploded like I did. I just wish I didn't have to validate. I wish I could let my guard down and not have to walk on eggshells.

[jrharvey]

I have tried this a few times. It really makes my wife angry. She says this is ignoring her feelings. She wants we to address her issues. If I do not, sometimes she will leave. A few times she didn't come back until the next day.

So did mine. Oh boy did she explode. She said I was selfish, uncaring, unloving etc... .She also said nobody ever loved me, everyone thinks Im a dick, no wonder my ex cheated on me and a bunch of other hurtful things. She tried to do the silent treatment for 24 hours before and act like she didn't care but eventually she realized it wasn't working and she started to feel lonely and needy. She realized her being mean wasn't making things better and started trying to be nice. Now she still test me EVERY DAY. She still tries to push my buttons but I can honestly see improvement. She has started admitting her fault. Im still very sensitive to her when she is talking to me nicely but not when she is aggressive or mean. I think the turning point was when I decided that id be better off without her. I wasn't ready to break up but I just didn't care if she left. Id rather be alone than put up with abuse and it seems to me by her actions that she would rather be with me than be abusive.

[CrazyChuck]

She felt uncomfortable, neglected and left-out? Any validity? If you got a do-over, could you have accommodated her and also had fun with your friends?

It's real that people can feel uncomfortable when old friends get together and they are not part of that history and all the insider stories. Even non-BPD people.

This approach is not working - it might be time to try something different.

She seemed very involved during the party.

It is like sometimes she keeps trying to get a fight. She gets mad at A, and then I validate. And then an hour later she gets mad at B, and I validate. And then a few hours later she gets mad at C, and my validation isn't good enough. And then she gets very angry. This night I was drunk, so when she got to C, I exploded. I wish I had just validated C, and called it a night. But that didn't happen.

[flourdust]

It sounds like you've had several cycles of these blowups, when your frustration level peaks. You're clearly under a lot of stress in this relationship. Are you seeing a therapist, by any chance? That could be very helpful to give you some perspective and work on strategies with you.

[adaw]

Sorry about your pain. I'm a public figure and quite in demand with a certain cultural movement in my country. Now I hear that I slept with the PR to get into the limelight. Even though I only got a local interview out of the deal. She went further and sent my portfolio to a very ill reputed agent basically stealing my identity to ask him to represent me. I never went to the meeting but kept quiet

[Jessica84]

Chuck - I can understand your confusion in all this. On the surface, you both seemed to have a good time so you were not expecting her reaction after the party. In fact, you thought it was a great success. But she may have had a different experience than you, even if she didn't show it outwardly. Being intoxicated you probably weren't in the best place to see where she was coming from, or why she would even need validation. After all, she was engaged in the party and laughing right along side you. Right?

Well... .maybe not... .

I guess I can relate to what Skip said about being at a party with old friends with whom you don't have a shared history. It can feel pretty awkward. There are inside jokes and stories and references to things and people you know nothing about. You feel out of the loop and a bit ignorant.

My non-BPD ex took me to a party with some old friends. Like you, he got drunk and was the life of the party. I was happy to see him having a good time, but I also felt like a lonely odd duck and a bit left out. I laughed along and made the best of it. Even though I looked fully engaged on the outside, inside was a different story. The difference is I don't have an emotional disorder so I didn't blame him for my discomfort. I didn't express my feelings or demand he validate them. He hadn't done anything wrong, hadn't really neglected me and thought I was enjoying myself... .so I was able to shake it off by the time we got home. Someone with BPD would have far less ability to do so and need those feelings validated.

That said, don't blame yourself for not knowing she was brewing on the inside. We all have an inner world other people can't possibly see. Unfortunately with BPD, it rises to the surface exponentially.

[CrazyChuck]

Chuck - I can understand your confusion in all this. On the surface, you both seemed to have a good time so you were not expecting her reaction after the party. In fact, you thought it was a great success. But she may have had a different experience than you, even if she didn't show it outwardly. Being intoxicated you probably weren't in the best place to see where she was coming from, or why she would even need validation. After all, she was engaged in the party and laughing right along side you. Right?

Well... .maybe not... .

I guess I can relate to what Skip said about being at a party with old friends with whom you don't have a shared history. It can feel pretty awkward. There are inside jokes and stories and references to things and people you know nothing about. You feel out of the loop and a bit ignorant.

My non-BPD ex took me to a party with some old friends. Like you, he got drunk and was the life of the party. I was happy to see him having a good time, but I also felt like a lonely odd duck and a bit left out. I laughed along and made the best of it. Even though I looked fully engaged on the outside, inside was a different story. The difference is I don't have an emotional disorder so I didn't blame him for my discomfort. I didn't express my feelings or demand he validate them. He hadn't done anything wrong, hadn't really neglected me and thought I was enjoying myself... .so I was able to shake it off by the time we got home. Someone with BPD would have far less ability to do so and need those feelings validated.

That said, don't blame yourself for not knowing she was brewing on the inside. We all have an inner world other people can't possibly see. Unfortunately with BPD, it rises to the surface exponentially.

She has brought up several times that the party was so much fun, and then she follows with me getting drunk and calling her names for no reason. She says she hates when I get drunk because she knows I am going to start calling her names.

Last Saturday night she thought I was drunk. We had a few drinks at a club and when I went to the bathroom, I tripped on a rug. When I got back to the table she was pissed. She started telling me she hates when I get drunk. That now she was going to have to drive home. She started calling me an ashole for getting drunk. I had to stop her and tell her that I tripped on the rug. That I was fine. Then she went in that she was trying to tell me how she feels and I was ignoring her feelings. So I validated her feelings. And then she just wanted to leave. She said the night was over. It really sucks because we were having a great time before I tripped on the rug.

The strange thing is I have been drunk around her maybe 3 times total in the last three years.

[jrharvey]

Read this

She has brought up several times that the party was so much fun, and then she follows with me getting drunk and calling her names for no reason.

Then read this

She started calling me an ashole for getting drunk.

I would have exploded.

[an0ught]

Hi CrazyChuck,

sounds a bit like you tried your best, got exhausted and snapped.

It is like sometimes she keeps trying to get a fight. She gets mad at A, and then I validate. And then an hour later she gets mad at B, and I validate. And then a few hours later she gets mad at C, and my validation isn't good enough. And then she gets very angry. This night I was drunk, so when she got to C, I exploded. I wish I had just validated C, and called it a night. But that didn't happen.

Validation has limits. You have limits. Do you clearly know them and can sense when they are reached? How do you signal that your limits are getting reached?

[michel71]

I have gotten to this point many times. You are in good company. I admit that I have had limited success with the tools. I think I am at a point where I just don't care to placate her anymore. Ending conflict, listening with empathy, validating... .for me that was a full time job... and I wasn't good at it... .and I am tired. The only thing I could possible do was set more boundaries, yet I fell down on some of those as well but I am getting better.
I will not stay in the room when she calls me names and I won't call her any back ANYMORE. I am done with stooping to her level.
Like I said, I am closer to ending the relationship than working on it, although I have been asked to "try again" and go to counseling (that didn't work last time).
I think one gets to a point where they have just had enough.
PERIOD. The end.

[waverider]

If you get angry just once a year that may be your problem. When your once a year 'enough is enough" moment comes around you have this back load for pent up frustration coming out and you go into complete meltdown.

Maybe you need to work more on tools for damage control and repair, so that you are less afraid of routine falls outs. Too often we become so afraid of BPD drama that we to try to validate and soothe to a degree that far exceeds even a "normal" relationship. So that when the conflict comes we are not ready or equipped for it. We meltdown and feel like a total failure, become contrite and appear weak.

Anger management is worth looking into, it is not about not getting angry it is about being able to express it better so that neither of you fear it. People who can display controlled anger generally do command respect, it stays on point and it describes how something is making them feel without being overwhelmingly threatening. It passes quicker with less traumatic consequences. It can be refreshing, and avoids that pent up frustration that makes you feel like a failure.

[waverider]

Those "enough is enough" moments are most likely to occur when we have been drinking and otherwise "having fun". It is also at these times we are less equipped to be capable of controlling our perceptions and reactions.

I gave up drink altogether as it was a booby trap waiting to be tripped.