Introduction

[Lost_Kayaker]

I'm new here, and I want to say Hi to everyone, and I also want to start to share part of my story.

I've been in a relationship with my SO for almost 3 years now. We have an almost 2 year old son, and it wasn't until after we agreed to have him that I noticed the big changes that were going to happen in my life. She hasn't been diagnosed with BPD, but I read stories on here that I could have written.

I didn't know what BPD was until I was at work, and we were seeing a marriage counselor. The marriage counselor told us to open all of our accounts to the other person. Boy was this a mistake. A harassing email was sent to a co-worker because this emoticon  was in an email sent to me by the coworker. The email was so bad I thought I was going to lose my job. Then the big boss at my location led me down the path to here. Now all of this happened a year ago, and I've been trying to read and learn what helps the situations from this site. I've read stop walking on eggshells, and I've started therapy for my own failings and my inability to set and  maintain boundaries in my current situation; however, this mess isn't easy to deal with.


During this relationship I have seen
 
1)push/pull (get out/ don't leave me)
2)threats of self-violence
3)physical violence
4)damaging of material possessions
5)Separation from family and friends
6)threats to harm my dog
7)Threats that if I leave I will never see my son again

Now let's start with just today. Last night was my second meeting with my counselor, and we are starting EMDR which I think is great. Last night was the first time in almost 2 years that I was smiling and singing along to the radio on my way home. It was as soon as I got home that all of that changed though. She judged my happy place. She told me that because she wasn't in it that it wasn't an appropriate happy place. (I don't understand how she can try to take away my happy place that I had just worked on with my therapist.) I think that it has to do with her abandonment issues though. The fact that my happy place doesn't involve her must mean that she is not important.

Then to start off today, we started talking about trusting one another, because that is one of the biggest issues in our relationship. When asked if she trusted me as a mate she said not in all regards. Now we haven't been the best couple (if we were I wouldn't be here), but I feel that I should be trusted. When she asked me if I trusted her, and replied in the exact same manner she said she couldn't take it anymore, and wanted to be done talking about it. That the conversation was too negative. 

So, I am here. I want to get help, but I'm not sure where the future is going to take me. I hope that I can get out of the FOG and start living my life for me again, and not for the ramblings of someone else.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[VitaminC]

  Lost_Kayaker,

You've come to a really good place, and I'm glad you found this community. It's a very helpful bunch of people who have much often hard-won wisdom, experience, and empathy.

It's great you've already been reading some of the resources here.

Have you looked through the Tools sections in the right side-bar? Some very good articles and workshops (discussions) on setting and maintaining boundaries, not accidentally invalidating, and managing conflicts.   

What's the first thing you want to achieve, do you think? We're all with you for the long haul anyway.

[Lost_Kayaker]

My first goal is to find me again, and then to set boundaries in my life that allow me to be me.

I have a good idea of what some of my boundaries are, but in this relationship I've never been able to maintain them. It's like my boundaries are like the flowers in between houses that the little kid just tramples through. When I try and set and maintain my boundaries I get dysregulation until the boundary is circumvented, and I really need to work on keeping true to myself during those times.

It isn't easy as the dysregulation gets to the point where I have to remove myself from the situation which then triggers abandonment issues and threats of if I leave then I need to stay gone. I'm really confused by many of the things that I see in my life right now. Climbing out of the FOG isn't going to be easy.

[VitaminC]

My first goal is to find me again, and then to set boundaries in my life that allow me to be me.

I have a good idea of what some of my boundaries are, but in this relationship I've never been able to maintain them.

Would it help to state some of your boundaries here now? And give some examples of how they are trampled on? I am sure that other members will have some tips, if that would be useful, on how can better maintain them in future.  Baby steps... .

[VitaminC]

It also strikes me that it's hard to know which comes first; finding oneself or setting and maintaining boundaries. It's possible that dealing with the boundaries will help you to have a better sense of yourself, which in turn will help with maintaining those boundaries.

[Lost_Kayaker]

Time alone and away from the relationship with friends.

I used to be an avid whitewater kayaker spending 3-4 days a week on the water with friends. Granted I know that this had to change when our son was going to be in our life, but that 3-4 times a week went to 3-4 times a year. When I try to talk about my need to go kayaking she responds with you put kayaking over me and your family. Of course this isn't true, and I just want to go be on the water which is a very big form of stability for me. We even live 5 minutes from where I want to go, but I think that her fear of abandonment forces her to want codependency in our relationship. I don't even know where to begin on that one.

Separation of joint phone account.
We have a joint phone account where I have limited access to the account, but she has access to everything. I have asked multiple times to be added to the account with much of the same access as her, but that keeps getting denied. It's to the point where I want to just put the phone in my own name, but in order to get off the account I need her to grant approval.

Fighting in front of the child
She uses our son as a weapon when we fight. I've tried to set a boundary of not fighting in front of our son, because that is unhealthy. She pushes and pushes to fight when he is awake, because she is in the moment of fighting. Then once he goes to bed she doesn't continue the fight with the same ferocity as when he was awake even to the point where we just sit and watch TV for the rest of the night. I try and remove myself from those situations, but then I am just chased around the house until I give into fighting in front of him. Also, if I don't fight with her she will also demean and devalue me to our son.

When I try to initiate these boundaries she gets angry and doesn't hold to the boundaries that I'm trying to instill.
I really don't even know how to stand firm in the wake when I try and set these boundaries. I've tried just saying no. I've tried saying I'm not going to fight in front of our son. I shut myself away from her while our son is awake to not have the fight in front of him. I've tried numerous avenues to make these things better.

[C.Stein]

Time alone and away from the relationship with friends.

This is necessary in any relationship IMO.  We all need time to ourselves, some more than others.  We also need to remember we all have requirements as individuals that fall outside the relationship.  Perhaps encouraging her to do her own things to meet these individual needs will lead to her feeling less threatened by you doing the same?

That said, personal time is one of the things you lose when you become a family man ... .but it doesn't mean it has to be all of it.  How about suggesting kayaking 1-2 times a month and she do something she likes to do alone 1-2 times a month?

Separation of joint phone account.

There is no need for a joint account unless it is a financial decision.  Naturally if there are trust issues having independent accounts can lead to more issues than it is worth.

Fighting in front of the child

This needs to change!  Not engaging her is one way, but as you know it doesn't stop there.  How are your validation skills?  The goal here is to diffuse the anger, not build on it or let it fester.

[Lost_Kayaker]

Time alone and away from the relationship with friends.

This is necessary in any relationship IMO.  We all need time to ourselves, some more than others.  We also need to remember we all have requirements as individuals that fall outside the relationship.  Perhaps encouraging her to do her own things to meet these individual needs will lead to her feeling less threatened by you doing the same?

That said, personal time is one of the things you lose when you become a family man ... .but it doesn't mean it has to be all of it.  How about suggesting kayaking 1-2 times a month and she do something she likes to do alone 1-2 times a month?

I have tried this on so many occasions. When we met she was a runner, and she stopped doing that when she got pregnant. Now she gets to run 3 - 4 days a week for about an hour, but I still have to fight with her in order to be on the water. Then when I do get the opportunity, I have to rush and be done by a certain time otherwise I'm met with dysregulation.

I understand that things would change when the family came to be, but I have plenty of friends whose lives were not that drastically impacted by the birth of a child.

Separation of joint phone account.

There is no need for a joint account unless it is a financial decision.  Naturally if there are trust issues having independent accounts can lead to more issues than it is worth.

The phones being on the same account has caused more issues than it's worth. There are times when she is upset that my phone service is temporarily suspended. She thinks that because she is the owner of the account that entitles her to go through my phone (or take my phone on a whim) and to go through the records on the account and call into question my activity.

Being on the same account is not the only problem with the phones, I can't even look at my phone when I'm around her for fear of her reactions. I have come to the conclusions with things that I have seen (she's left her phone open and in text conversations on occasion that I have found to be completely inappropriate.)  that some of this could be due to projection. The projection is something that I'm having a real hard time with. I find it hard that even though I know I didn't do the things that she has said to truly believe what I know. 

Fighting in front of the child

This needs to change!  Not engaging her is one way, but as you know it doesn't stop there.  How are your validation skills?  The goal here is to diffuse the anger, not build on it or let it fester.

I so completely agree with this, but I can't stop the verbal assault that she presents most of the time. This is an area that I know where I need work. My childhood issues cause me to want to handle things in a peaceful manner, but when the stuff starts flying I retreat. I think that when the conversation gets to the point when we are fighting (yelling, screaming) that I need to remove myself from the confrontation until things can calm down a bit. This leads to her chasing me around the house, blocking doorways, blocking stairways, and forcing me to continue the argument. Which by this point is so far convoluted that no one could begin to help us work back to what the original argument was.

[C.Stein]

I have tried this on so many occasions. When we met she was a runner, and she stopped doing that when she got pregnant. Now she gets to run 3 - 4 days a week for about an hour, but I still have to fight with her in order to be on the water. Then when I do get the opportunity, I have to rush and be done by a certain time otherwise I'm met with dysregulation.

She might see running as exercise and your kayaking as fun and resents you for it?

Being on the same account is not the only problem with the phones, I can't even look at my phone when I'm around her for fear of her reactions. I have come to the conclusions with things that I have seen (she's left her phone open and in text conversations on occasion that I have found to be completely inappropriate.)  that some of this could be due to projection. The projection is something that I'm having a real hard time with. I find it hard that even though I know I didn't do the things that she has said to truly believe what I know.

So how will independent accounts resolve this (see bold)?  Obviously there are trust issues for both parties.  Can you see a way to resolve the trust issues here as they are fuel to a lot more than just the phone problems?

I so completely agree with this, but I can't stop the verbal assault that she presents most of the time. This is an area that I know where I need work. My childhood issues cause me to want to handle things in a peaceful manner, but when the stuff starts flying I retreat.

I also detest confrontation.  The idea here is to diffuse not retreat.  Retreating adds fuel to the fire when you want to be removing the fuel.  The first step in doing this is learning how to not internalize the attacks.  Ride the white and look for the flatwater.   

[Lost_Kayaker]

She might see running as exercise and your kayaking as fun and resents you for it?

This could be very true. I don't necessarily agree with that being fair. During the time I'm out on the water she is free to do what she wants to do. The same as when she is running. I support her in finding activities that interest her, and I want her to do more things that interest her.

So how will independent accounts resolve this (see bold)?  Obviously there are trust issues for both parties.  Can you see a way to resolve the trust issues here as they are fuel to a lot more than just the phone problems?

Again, I see this as being very true. I have asked multiple times on what she needs in order to begin trusting again, and I'm not sure that she even knows what she wants in order to start to trusting in the fact that I'm trustworthy. Alone and without direction I don't know how she will come to trust me again.

I also detest confrontation.  The idea here is to diffuse not retreat.  Retreating adds fuel to the fire when you want to be removing the fuel.  The first step in doing this is learning how to not internalize the attacks.  Ride the white and look for the flatwater.   

So I'll give an example from our conversation at lunch today. We had a conversation last week where she wanted to go kayaking, but she doesn't like a lot of the women in our area because she feels they carry a lot of drama with them. So, I talked to her about going out with one of my friend's GF who just recently started kayaking. When we were done with the conversation I felt that talking to my friend about the two of them getting together and kayaking would be something that she would want to do. When I talked to my friend about this, and then told her that I had talked to him about it she flipped. Now she is saying that she doesn't want to go with someone that she doesn't know. I tried to apologize for reaching out to my friend in order for her to have someone besides me to kayak with, and then I tried to say that I will not try and setup instances for her to do things anymore. I constantly feel that I'm in a lose - lose situation with the rules constantly changing. 

[C.Stein]

This could be very true. I don't necessarily agree with that being fair. During the time I'm out on the water she is free to do what she wants to do. The same as when she is running. I support her in finding activities that interest her, and I want her to do more things that interest her.

It is not fair and it never will be.  That is the reality of a relationship with someone who suffers from BPD.  You will have to accept that she cannot meet you halfway.  That said, who looks after your son when one person is out doing something else?  If you are on the water then she has to look after your son?  Assuming this is true then she really isn't free to do what she wants at all.

Supporting her in finding activities for herself may not be enough.  You may need to help her find activities and by doing so you are showing her through your actions that you are interested in her personal growth and see her as a independent individual and not just your wife.

Again, I see this as being very true. I have asked multiple times on what she needs in order to begin trusting again, and I'm not sure that she even knows what she wants in order to start to trusting in the fact that I'm trustworthy. Alone and without direction I don't know how she will come to trust me again.

Trust is a core requirement to a stable and healthy relationship.  Have you asked her why she doesn't trust you?  If you both can understand the "why" then maybe you can understand how to resolve the issues.  What do you think the reasons are?

So I'll give an example from our conversation at lunch today. We had a conversation last week where she wanted to go kayaking, but she doesn't like a lot of the women in our area because she feels they carry a lot of drama with them. So, I talked to her about going out with one of my friend's GF who just recently started kayaking. When we were done with the conversation I felt that talking to my friend about the two of them getting together and kayaking would be something that she would want to do. When I talked to my friend about this, and then told her that I had talked to him about it she flipped. Now she is saying that she doesn't want to go with someone that she doesn't know. I tried to apologize for reaching out to my friend in order for her to have someone besides me to kayak with, and then I tried to say that I will not try and setup instances for her to do things anymore. I constantly feel that I'm in a lose - lose situation with the rules constantly changing.

IMO you went about this the wrong way.  You set it up to be a losing situation from the get go.  It's like telling someone you will make them a PB&J sandwich, get the bread, PB and J then walk away.  

This is now a good opportunity for you to get in some validation.  How can you validate her feelings now?  What can you do to turn the situation into a win - win?

I want you to see how you could have done this differently on your own so I will ask you one simple question.

How could you have avoided her discomfort?

[Lost_Kayaker]

It is not fair and it never will be.  That is the reality of a relationship with someone who suffers from BPD.  You will have to accept that she cannot meet you halfway.  That said, who looks after your son when one person is out doing something else?  If you are on the water then she has to look after your son?  Assuming this is true then she really isn't free to do what she wants at all.

Supporting her in finding activities for herself may not be enough.  You may need to help her find activities and by doing so you are showing her through your actions that you are interested in her personal growth and see her as a independent individual and not just your wife.

Our relationship has been co-dependent for so long that breaking free from that cycle is very difficult. This is where proper boundaries in the beginning could have saved a ton of strife.

I agree that while she watches our son that she isn't free to do anything that she wants, but she can do things that she enjoys. She likes to hike, and I have bought a hiking backpack to take our son on hikes, a jogging stroller for her to take him on runs, and I know that there are numerous things that the two of them can share in. He's still very young, but he is a very active child.

It's the same if she wants to leave for a bit. I might not be able to do everything that I want to do, but that's the thing with responsibility. I guess this is part of why I'm here is to gain a better understanding of the BPD tendencies that she has, and how to better attune myself to her.

Trust is a core requirement to a stable and healthy relationship.  Have you asked her why she doesn't trust you?  If you both can understand the "why" then maybe you can understand how to resolve the issues.  What do you think the reasons are?

There was a lot of lying by both of us in the beginning of the relationship, and she has a very hard time forgiving people for their mistakes. While I know that this next statement is wrong, I have over time been worn down by the multiple "you're cheating on me" comments, and come to believe that if she can accuse me so many times of these things then there is a reason that they are being laid at my feet. (Projection)

So I'll give an example from our conversation at lunch today. We had a conversation last week where she wanted to go kayaking, but she doesn't like a lot of the women in our area because she feels they carry a lot of drama with them. So, I talked to her about going out with one of my friend's GF who just recently started kayaking. When we were done with the conversation I felt that talking to my friend about the two of them getting together and kayaking would be something that she would want to do. When I talked to my friend about this, and then told her that I had talked to him about it she flipped. Now she is saying that she doesn't want to go with someone that she doesn't know. I tried to apologize for reaching out to my friend in order for her to have someone besides me to kayak with, and then I tried to say that I will not try and setup instances for her to do things anymore. I constantly feel that I'm in a lose - lose situation with the rules constantly changing.

IMO you went about this the wrong way.  You set it up to be a losing situation from the get go.  It's like telling someone you will make them a PB&J sandwich, get the bread, PB and J then walk away.  

This is now a good opportunity for you to get in some validation.  How can you validate her feelings now?  What can you do to turn the situation into a win - win?

I want you to see how you could have done this differently on your own so I will ask you one simple question.

How could you have avoided her discomfort?

I even made the sandwich. I asked him times for the two of them to meet, and told her when the other person was available. I used our schedule to find a time that would be appropriate for her. I'm even going to be the one to load her gear, and will also be the one to drive her to the meetup. I did everything except for kayak the river for her. Maybe I just don't see the discomfort this caused her, and I'm sure that is something that I need to work on.

I listened to her say that she wanted to kayak. I know that we can't always go together so I looked for ways for her to become a part of the kayaking community. If I embarrassed her by reaching out to a friend in order for her to meet her wants then I really have a lot of work to do on understanding her feelings.

The only thing here that I can see that is causing her discomfort is being around someone new.

[motherhen]

  Welcome! I'm new here too and certainly don't have all the answers. I think in today's conversation you can validate the part that is true, assuming you can uncover what that is. I wouldn't like someone volunteering me to get together with someone I haven't met previously and I'm not BPD I just like to get to know people before spending time one on one with them. It's possible that this triggered her anxiety and caused her to feel unsafe or exposed. If you can find the reason and she feels understood that will go a long way to deescalating the situation.