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Author Topic: About to get married, fiancee has BPD  (Read 560 times)
Sputnik58

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« on: July 29, 2016, 01:03:51 PM »

Hello!

First-timer here, just reaching out for some support.

I am only just coming to terms with the full implications of what it means to have a partner with PBD. My fiancee has BPD and we're getting married in just under a month.  We've been together for a mostly happy four years now. I didn't realize, however, how serious her BPD is. I knew that she went to Dialectical Behavior Therapy for a long time but stopped shortly after we got serious because she was in a good place. She has since gone to therapy intermittently for secondary symptoms stemming from BPD (i.e. anxiety and phobias).

She has outbursts of rage, where her anger and level of shouting and crying do not match the severity of what she is raging about.  She feels emotions more strongly than anyone else I've known. I have learned, through trial and error, many of the recommended coping skills for loved ones of those with BPD. I have only just begun to read about them over the past few days after a particularly bad fight that almost led to us breaking off our engagement.

Here's the thing, though her episodes of rage are always difficult to bear, I have learned to deal with them in a relatively healthy way (usually) when the rage doesn't relate to me, when it is about something abstract and I can feel secure that I am in no way responsible for it. In the past, that's how it has usually been. It has often been rage about the scary state of the world and politics or about something some person said the her. I can do the right thing in those cases and stay calm, hold her (that's very important to her), and tell her that I understand how she feels. But, due to major changes in our lives, moving to a new place for my career far from my fiancee's support group of friends and family, the episodes of rage are increasingly related to a situation that I feel responsible for (i.e. her hating the new place that we've moved to for my job and her fear of the future and sense of uprootedness). I know that she is not saying that she hates me and doesn't love me when she rages about our new place of residence and things related to it, but I can't help but feel guilty and responsible. Given, my feelings of guilt and culpability, it is hard for me to respond the rage in healthy ways. Instead of staying calm, I start yelling back at her and I get defensive about the place and its people (even though I'm indifferent to them).

I was home visiting my family alone when the latest rage episode happened over the phone earlier this week.  My mother overheard her screaming hysterically over the phone and got concerned for me (I hung up the phone in tears which only made her more concerned).  Not knowing the she has PBD (and me not thinking about it because I had not really ever fully acknowledged it because I didn't connect her Dialetical Behavior therapy with the condition that it is designed to treat), my mother sat me down and encouraged me to stand up for myself and tell my fiancee that she must not interact with me in that way and that her behavior is inappropriate.  When I did this, it made matters worse. She twisted my words around and interpreted them as attacks on her. Things spiraled out of control for several days--we almost called off the wedding--until she mentioned something about her experiences in DBT, so I began reading about DBT and PBD and realized that she has a serious condition and that I had done everything that one should NOT do when dealing with someone who is having a BPD-related episode of rage. I quickly deescalted and apologized profusely for not responding to her emotions in the way that I should have (I didn't say anything about her BPD because, while she is ok talking about her past therapy experiences sometimes, she does not like to think about herself having BPD--she'll admit to/talk about the symptoms but not the condition, which is understandable because no one wants to feel labelled and pigeonholed).   

Going forward, I would like to work on my coping skills individually and as a couple. She has agreed that we should go to couples therapy and has said that she wants to go back to therapy for herself too (she is less interested in thinking about medications for it).  I want us to work on setting boundaries. In particular, when I feel like I may be approaching the limits of my patience, she needs to understand that I need to go for a walk or just get out for an hour or so to calm down. That would help.  In the past, she has become angry with me when I've got out for a walk while she is raging and crying... I don't make a habit of it, but sometimes I feel it is the only thing I can do to stop from yelling and screaming too. 

I feel like a fool for not seriously looking into the implications of her PBD earlier (ie because we got engaged). I love my fiancee very much, we have some much fun together and we usually make each other feel very loved. I want to create a happy home with her. But these meltdowns and fights scare me. Most of all, I don't like when they bring me to tears and feelings of despair.  When I get that way, I sometimes scare myself--I punch pillows and rip up my shirt and break things (I would never hurt her though). My first priority is not behaving that way because it is not good for anyone involved.

Any words of wisdom or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks for listening.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 01:19:19 PM »

Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials!

And go easy on yourself  Being cool (click to insert in post). Some people only learn about BPD after the relationship is over.

I can see why your mom would be concerned. I have found that family members mean well, and at the same time don't necessarily understand BPD. You sound motivated to learn and will probably end up helping your mom learn how to interact with your fiance, vs the opposite where she gives you advice. I notice that my pwBPD's strong feelings are almost always connected to inadequacy in some way, so telling her she is acting inappropriate just fuels the fire. 

Do you think your fiance feels particularly inadequate now that she's moved to your new place?

I like your idea about discussing what will happen if you need a time out before it happens. What are you thinking about saying?




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jrharvey
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 01:44:25 PM »

Im a newbie so take everything here with a grain of salt. This is just what I have learned in a short time that has helped.

Excerpt
Given, my feelings of guilt and culpability, it is hard for me to respond the rage in healthy ways. Instead of staying calm, I start yelling back at her and I get defensive about the place and its people (even though I'm indifferent to them

Read up and practice mindfulness. Also learn about detachment. Learn how TO OBSERVE her behavior and not react to her behavior. Its very hard but once you start observing it changes everything. Realize that her rages are from her BPD and not what you are doing. That helps. When I say observe treat it like a person watching the monkeys at the zoo. They are running around and doing their thing but you do not react to them. You just watch them. This change has been incredible in my relationship. Its amazing. Most of the time a rage escalates because you react. It can start small but keeps escalating because you react and do not observe.

Excerpt
my mother sat me down and encouraged me to stand up for myself and tell my fiancee that she must not interact with me in that way and that her behavior is inappropriate.  When I did this, it made matters worse. She twisted my words around and interpreted them as attacks on her.
you should definitely stand up for yourself but only the proper way. Learn about setting boundaries in the workshops. For me when I am being attacked by my BPD girlfriend I call a timeout and if she wont stop I leave. If you learn mindfulness and actually observe rather than react you will find yourself not getting into these rages quite as much.

Excerpt
When I get that way, I sometimes scare myself--I punch pillows and rip up my shirt and break things (I would never hurt her though). My first priority is not behaving that way because it is not good for anyone involved.

Me too. Im sorry for this. I am a newbie here so its still hard for me to control myself. Your taking her rages personally. You getting mad is your frustration for not being able to control her emotions. AGAIN... .learn mindfulness and just observe. Its not you. Its the BPD. Keep remembering that. Now of course realize when and if you do actually do something wrong. Don't ever blame the BPD. Just keep that to yourself I think.

Just the other day I was doing soo well and feeling good about my progress and I lost control. She was raging for a full 24 hours then she calmed down and became loving again. I wake up in the morning with her upset with me again and she said something that made me lose it. She said that I wasn't making her feel loved and if I couldn't do it then she was going to go out and find someone that would. I asked if she meant another guy and she said "well I don't know". Then she tried to just leave the house just like that. I lost it and stopped her from leaving while I punched the wall and broke a picture frame with several of our pictures in it. I was yelling and screaming and getting in her face and just completely out of control. This type of behavior does not help. She only used it as ammunition to throw back at me and blame me for losing control. I know that she wanted to see that reaction. She felt better after I overreacted. Not better about us but better about herself.

The biggest reason you and me both get angry is you want to control or change her emotions. STOP. Let her feel what she is feeling. Allow it all to come out. Don't react just observe. Give up that control you want so badly. Stop wishing she could be different. Either accept her for who she is or let go. Either way just let go of your need to make things better or control her because it will only cause you pain.

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jrharvey
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2016, 01:54:34 PM »

Another problem that I had was I tried to LOVE HER OUT OF THIS DISORDER. Big mistake. It actually reinforces bad behavior. I just thought if I just kept showing her more and more and more love she would realize and want to change for me. Nope. Cold hard truth is boundaries are it. Oh but it will be hard. Your probably scared of losing her or her calling off the marriage. Im pretty sure she will threaten that. You must be prepared for that. I had to be prepared for my GF breaking up with me if I set a boundary. And she did. Several times she claimed she was breaking up with me and packed and left. When she saw that I wasn't being manipulated or scared into letting go of my boundary she came back actually apologizing and showing even more love than ever.
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Sputnik58

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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2016, 03:12:20 PM »

Thanks for the feedback.

Moving has definitively exacerbated my fiancee's feelings of adequacy and anxiety. This has been the most trying issue we've had to deal with in our nearly four years together.  I am hoping that once my pwBPD finds meaningful opportunities for work, study, or community engagement in our new place this will help lessen the rage. Meanwhile, I am trying to be very accommodating allowing her an out to go home and stay with family for a while if her feelings toward the place get too difficult to handle. We've done long-distance before, so if she needs to go home for a while, that's fine.

During this most recent fight I mentioned my need to walk away so that I don't escalate things.  She seemed to understand but also conveyed that my leaving to calm down is the opposite of what she wants me to do. (perhaps because of abandonment issues relations to BPD?) But I think I established that that is what I might need to do sometimes. We'll see how it goes. 

Jrharvey: Thanks for sharing your experiences. The most difficult thing for me (and I'm sure for you and many others) is being able to detach and observe rather than react. I think taking BPD seriously, now that I've recognized it for what it is, will help.  Once I read the BPD symptoms and matched them to what I'd been observing in my fiancee, I felt much calmer like a light-bulb turned on it my brain. I will read up on and practice mindfulness.  You're absolutely right about rage escalating due to me reacting. As you say, I have to stop thinking that I can control or change her emotions.  Now the hard work lies ahead of me/us.

Thanks again for your insights all!
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jrharvey
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 03:46:37 PM »

Excerpt
During this most recent fight I mentioned my need to walk away so that I don't escalate things.  She seemed to understand but also conveyed that my leaving to calm down is the opposite of what she wants me to do.

This is exactly what my GF says. But you are two people. I made it clear that just because she is upset does not give her the right to be verbally or physically abusive. I consider manipulation, name calling, loud screaming or hitting abuse and if she does those things I need to leave. She will feel abandoned and she will not like it. Boundaries will hurt her a lot and she may rage against you even more but when she calms down SHE MAY realize that her actions cause you to react that way and its kinda like training her to control those actions if she wants to keep you around. Be ready for her to hate you for it. Its like a kid that wants candy. If you give a kid candy all the time and then you take it away one day that kid will go nuts but you need to be strong. Don't be a jerk and just leave because she is saying something you don't like. It doesn't work like that. If she is having a calm conversation with you about her feelings then you should stay and listen. Be mindful and observe and listen. Don't take it personal. Only leave when she is abusive because if you let her verbally attack you your self esteem will go way down and she will lose respect for you.

Again I am a newbie. Take this advice with a grain of salt.
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motherhen
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 04:06:52 PM »

Moving is a huge deal even for nons. My spouse has Bipolar as well and moving 1000 miles is what caused him to go off the rails and end up hospitalized and diagnosed. He took about 12 years to even sort of be okay with living here and still has some pretty deep resentment about it. It's really hard and had I known he was borderline at the time and how to respond rather than react, I would have been much more understanding and validating at how hard it was for him instead of pointing out the good here and how he was idealizing things falsely from our hometown. Unfortunately because I was being personally attacked and blamed for his illness and everything else wrong with the world I reacted with anger. 19 years later, I can see that moving away from his adoptive family even though he wasn't close with them triggered childhood PTSD and fear of abandonment.

If you can validate the things that are true about what she's feeling that will go far. When I need to walk away in the moment either to help myself get centered or allow him more time to stop adding fuel to his own fire, I give a time frame that I am leaving for. "I can see that you aren't ready to talk about this in a constructive way. I love you and will be back in two hours". It helps a lot if they have some self soothing skills, which many of them do have very effective ones. But in the heat of an interpersonal relations episode, it's difficult for them to break away from the giant vacuum cleaner sucking them in and practice self soothing. Sometimes you have to turn off the vacuum cleaner for them.


No guilt because you didn't connect that DBT=BPD. When we know better, we do better. You are doing great.
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Sputnik58

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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 10:18:37 PM »

I would have been much more understanding and validating at how hard it was for him instead of pointing out the good here and how he was idealizing things falsely from our hometown.

That is exactly my response to her criticisms of the place we've moved to: I find myself trying to convince her that the place is great and that her home is not so much better. I know that's not the right approach. If there are things in the area that I think she'd like I should show her and try to create a fun and exciting environment, but I cannot expect that these things will make her think differently about the place.  I cannot get upset when she rages about her new home, I must accept it.  Acceptance, acceptance, acceptance. That's what I need to be able to achieve.

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motherhen
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2016, 12:37:51 AM »

You need some scripts for those moments. Otherwise it will become a tug of war and nobody wins. Maybe try bringing up some things that you miss about where you used to live in a calm time to create some common ground. Let her know how much you appreciate her sacrifice to move with you for your job.
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Turkish
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2016, 01:26:22 AM »

Observing vs. reactingis good advice.  I get the walking out though.  I did that really in my r/s and she later told me it scared the crap out of her (abandonment fears).

It's good that you are learning tools to better deal with BPD behaviors.  Have you looked at the lessons to the right of the board?  

Walking out may be a good tactical step,  but a strategy might be better.  When she's calm,  can you discuss what you can do to de-escalate? My Ex's solution was in part physical validation: holding or hugging her.  Often,  I was so angry at the way she was treating me,  I refused to do it.  In retrospect, it would have helped.  I did do it a few times though,  which got us through a suicide ideation. Do you think you could ask?  I asked her point -blank,  though gently.  These communication tools might help:

Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

T
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zonnebloem
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2016, 02:31:42 AM »

 

Hello!
Brave.
I am concerned if you'll have enough time and arms and patience to hold AND your wife and your kids.
I can see you'll take them to your mum, leaving a yelling wife behind.
I know I am supposed to give you support here... .but I am a daughter of a BPD father and I know what I talk about.
Out of some romantic ideas, the world has gone crazy.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2016, 10:51:36 AM »

Acceptance, acceptance, acceptance. That's what I need to be able to achieve.

And hard to achieve! I find I have to limit exposure so that I can shore up the level of compassion and empathy I need to accept what are often intense emotions and distorted cognitions.

Even if it is distressing to her abandonment fears, you were wise to provide her a script about what you need to do when you feel your own emotions start to escalate. And it is meaningful that she can tell you two seemingly opposite things that are both true: she understands it's a good idea, and also knows it's the opposite of what she wants.

Sometimes underneath everything it can feel that there is one message coming from someone with BPD: "I feel inadequate."

What we accept is the person's experience of that feeling. I find this translation helps me when my empathy starts to slip. The distortions can be so baffling that logic never works. So solving the distortions with logic further invalidates the core feeling, making things worse. I tell myself, "This is about feeling inadequate, a painful feeling." And then I bear witness to that pain, removing myself if I feel that the expression of that pain becomes abusive. Also acknowledging when the expression of that pain is done in a positive way.

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Sputnik58

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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2016, 01:31:51 PM »

My Ex's solution was in part physical validation: holding or hugging her.  Often,  I was so angry at the way she was treating me,  I refused to do it.  In retrospect, it would have helped.  I did do it a few times though,  which got us through a suicide ideation.
Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)
T

She has told me that what she needs when she has bouts of rage is for me to hold her and tell her I love her. I have done that and it helps. It's when I, for whatever reason, loose my cool and am unable to do give her the affection she wants that I need to walk away for a while and occupy myself with something else.  She has told me that she feels unlovable when she rages and that my not wanting to engage with her makes her feel even less lovable.  But that's just it--it is scary to lovingly embrace a person who is exhibiting such anger and rage (she hasn't been violent, but I sometimes worry that she could strike out or something... .though, again, she never has). I think knowing that this is part of her condition and reminding myself of that when it happens will help me empathize.  Ultimately, it is empathy that is missing when I fly of the rails in response to her rage. If I could just learn to think that she is really hurting and upset, rather than thinking she shouldn't be THAT upset/angry over this.   I should stop being the judge of whether her anger is justified. It is a symptom of her condition.
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motherhen
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2016, 03:15:43 PM »

I found that for me the lack of empathy was rooted in not understanding because well BPD episodes aren't logical at all. I'm an empath and generally very in tune with other people's feelings but when they seem to defy reason and I was the target, I learned to build walls to protect myself from what I couldn't explain.

I read something life altering recently that changed that. It was talking about how you have emotional memory and in someone with emotional dysregulation a certain emotion can bring up alllll the feelings of times in the past you have felt that memory. Because those emotions weren't dealt with appropriately in the past, they will come up again. I suppose we all do this, not just people with BPD and we call it triggers. For me though it was life changing to hear my husband in a BPD moment say "I feel powerless" because his car was in the shop and he had no idea how much it is going to cost and to realize that he's feeling this emotion with mind of the little boy that was powerless to stop his mom from being abused and eventually murdered.  Idea Suddenly empathy became a lot easier. Knowing that they are hurting deep down isn't quite the same as understanding the why behind it.
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