24-year marriage, and she says it's over (again)

[NiceGuy22]

I found my first post from nearly 3 years ago, and the subject was almost the same thing. My BPD wife was "done" for the umpteenth time, sleeping in the guest room, had cancelled Thanksgiving ... .but like every other time, she did not leave, Thanksgiving happened, and things returned to normal within a day or two.

But here we go again. Yesterday she got upset with our 19yo son (in a group text thread between me, her, and our said son). This after an impossible argument at 2am the night before where one thing became about everything and eventually was just her telling him he's lazy and disrespectful, threatening to no longer fund college ... .and then getting mad at me (again) because she thinks I don't intervene and do anything to similarly lay into him (not that I could get a word in edgewise even if I tried).

Here's the thread:

me: "You two should seriously seek counseling. The way you interact with each other is horrible - both of you. Breaks my heart."

her: "Thanks! It's over. You've always been on his side and he's the one who believes he doesn't have a problem. I'm in touch with myself and I've been fighting the inevitable, but that can change too!"
"I WILL NOT TAKE THE BLAME FOR [son's name] - That's his own battle to live with. I've tried and now our family is torn."

me: "Sarcasm is not helpful, and I'm not sure what it is you think you are saying. I am on our family's side - not with one or the other, but both. You both have a role in your relationship with each other and both should take responsibility for how you contribute."

her: "I do but NOBODY sees it. He has nothing to do with us and when he is around he's not."
"This is over - I hope everyone can truly find themselves some day."

me: "... .and this is EXACTLY why I don't speak up. (mad face emoji, crying face emoji)"

her: "Maybe if you only did a long time ago. You have allowed him to disrespect me and not understand life for way too long and now it's normal to him. Therefore I am finally going to make the choice to end the chaos."
"I mean seriously - who's ever had MY back? That's what I thought! I love him very much but he decided years ago to detach himself from me and treat me like crap. I've only tried to help him to be his best but instead I've been the villain... .Even in your eyes"

Then last night she came home like normal, watched some TV, fell asleep on the couch, then moved to the guest room bed to sleep the rest of the night. This morning was mostly normal. We did not discuss the argument.

I've lost count of how many times she's said she's "done" or "gone." I think once she spent the night somewhere else, if that - but DAMN I am sick and tired of feeling like our marriage and me don't matter to her. Obviously, my role as the calm one, the mediator, hasn't done as much good as I'd like (though I guess I don't know how bad things would be if I hadn't done what I've done along the way). We mostly try to not engage in these battles - but it feels like that gives her free reign and nothing ever changes.

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[once removed]

hi NiceGuy22, welcome back!

its a pretty difficult position to be in, between your wife and son, and with the two of you switching off who is being lashed out at.

Obviously, my role as the calm one, the mediator, hasn't done as much good as I'd like (though I guess I don't know how bad things would be if I hadn't done what I've done along the way). We mostly try to not engage in these battles - but it feels like that gives her free reign and nothing ever changes.

this caught my eye. my father can be a difficult man sometimes. ive learned to recognize those times, and these days i have more effective tools at diffusing conflict. ill give you an example.

my father tends to misplace things and expect someone else to pick up the slack. he lost his phone and wanted to take my moms to work which would leave her without a phone. she said no. he got pretty pissy about it. he came home and started in on her, accusing her of not answering his texts (i guess he found his phone). of course, she had and she told him so, and he told her she did no such thing. my mother started to ask me to bear witness that id seen her do so. thankfully he was just out of the room, and i shot her a look.

she was pretty offended that i wouldnt vouch for her. i later explained to her what would have happened if i had. my father would have felt invalidated and ganged up on and lashed out at both of us. not long after this incident, he apologized to her, which wouldnt have happened. things would have escalated.

his behavior wasnt fair and the whole incident never had to happen. but with some strategy, things were pretty much stopped before they could have gotten much worse.

im curious how the last three years look for you. have things gotten better or worse? what sorts of tools are you practicing?

and since all this is recent, how are things since this morning?

[Notwendy]

Hi NiceGuy,

Your post reminded me of some of the conversations between my parents ( BPD mom) over the years. I see this has been going on a long time, and this is your third post. I hope that you keep posting and learning about the dynamics in BPD families as well as the lessons on the right of the pages here.

Listening to my ( now elderly) mother speak of life with us, from her perspective, she was a victim. We (kids and my father )were not on her side, we didn't support her, she was the bag guy, we blamed her for everything.

This isn't how things looked to us kids growing up. We dealt with the whole range of BPD behaviors. Overall, I think we were pretty good kids, but if we so much as didn't pick up a toy, or said something that irritated her, we were the worst kids ever. My father worked hard to support us and did all he could to try to make her happy. I'm sure we were all not perfect, we made mistakes, at times we were not kind to her- we didn't like the BPD behavior, but the issues were not all because of us.

I can't tell you how many times my mother threatened " it's over, I'm out of here" and even more, sitting us down and telling us her plans to divorce my father. We lost count. It was just her reaction to being angry in the moment. Then, as if she turned a switch, it never happened, she and my father were affectionate again. At first when we were little, we'd be scared an upset, but by our teens, we knew it was just empty words. Although we were puzzled by the relationship, my parents had a long marriage until my father, who was devoted to her, passed away in his elder years. There was more to their relationship than we understood- they were quite attached to each other. I know that my father loved her always, and I believe she loved him even though it was hard for us to see that at times.

I would like to discuss some concepts of BPD relationships that may help you here. One is the drama triangle. From the conversation you posted, your wife seems to be taking "Victim" position. The other roles are Persecutor and Rescuer. She sees you as Rescuing your son, but she wants you to Rescue her from him ( Persecutor). When you didn't take her side, you became her Persecutor and she then threatened to leave. For my mother, it seems that she takes Victim role, and acts from that perspective. The typical conflict that involved me was that she was Victim, I was her Persecutor, and my father would have to choose between defending her or me.

Black and White thinking. We are either all good or all bad. One bad thing and the whole marriage ( or kids) were all bad.

Dysregulations are temporary. The output of words are a projection of her own bad feelings in the moment. Once the bad feelings are out ( sort of like when someone has a stomach ache and vomits, then feels better), she feels better. When someone is that agitated, they may not even recall exactly what they said. ( that doesn't mean they aren't accountable for their actions, but how seriously one takes the words). For my mother, it was almost like a reset button. Once the rage was over, she was fine. We were the ones that were all shook up by it.

Your wife may say something in the moment, and then when the moment is over, not feel that way. IMHO, I wouldn't take it seriously unless she took real steps to do it. Then, I think it would help to learn about these kinds of interactions- the triangle/black- white thinking so that these things don't feel so personal.