I am dating a woman with BPD and would appreciate the insight of others

[autonomyfull]

Hello.

I came to this forum because of some recent events between me and my girlfriend, who has BPD. I am looking to get involved in the community and share experiences and listen for the benefit of all others in my situation, I appreciate a space like this a great deal.

Some background:

We have been dating for about 3 months, it is a short relationship, but a very emotionally connected one. We fell in love very quickly, as I've heard these relationships sometimes go. The first 2 months were great, we never fought, only disagreed and constantly checked our own behaviors to make sure we were being good partners. We saw each other almost everyday, and things seemed to be smooth sailing.

The last 4 days have taken a slight turn. After a night of drinking and talking, we found ourselves in a disagreement about a topic we were on (philosophy), and in my drunken stupor made the mistake of becoming defensive and escalating things, with which we ended the conversation with "I just don't think we understand each other this time".

After this moment, I noticed a quick change in her behavior, which she acknowledged as well even though she kept saying she wanted to not be self-destructive and ruin a relationship with me, nor push me away. She started giving me silent treatments, responding less to me, and asking me less about how I was doing. Generally seeming to be disinterested in me, even though she said she wasn't.

After apologizing about my behavior, to which she accepted, she admitted that even though her mind was ready, her body couldn't catch up (this was her self-destructive tendency of becoming too cautious). It seems like she is protecting herself from becoming hurt, and withdrawing a lot of attention during the days. It seems only when I can make her laugh and pull her out does she seem to show me affection and love again. I feel like I have been permanently devalued as a partner and person.

To cope with this, I have begun to regulate my own emotions, and become so much more cautious of what I say and do (even though she claims that she wants me to be able to tell her anything), yet her actions speak otherwise. I see us approaching a paradoxical situation of self-destruction, and I would really like to stop it.

For now I have decided to regain my sense of self, which she has influenced a loss of, and become emotionally stable enough to be okay without affection from her. I've told her about my worries, and that no matter what I would be there for her after she comes out of her depressive state. Should I be giving her space? (She says she doesn't want it, but her lessening of affection suggests otherwise).

Does anyone have any advice for me or similar stories? I feel kind of lost as I am a very open and communicative person, yet she seems to be using my fears of distance between her as ammunition and 'punishing' me, although I know this has nothing to do with me.




I greatly appreciate everybody's time and effort in reading this and will clarify anything that I've said.

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[schwing]

Hi Autonomyfull,

After a night of drinking and talking, we found ourselves in a disagreement about a topic we were on (philosophy), and in my drunken stupor made the mistake of becoming defensive and escalating things, with which we ended the conversation with "I just don't think we understand each other this time".

I hope you do not blame this incident as the cause for your girlfriend's distancing. It is normal to have disagreements in all things, if not especially on philosophy. And it is normal to not understand someone with whom you are only beginning to develop familiarity; and I would argue that this is the whole point of courtship: to develop that familiarity and gain better understanding.

After this moment, I noticed a quick change in her behavior, which she acknowledged as well even though she kept saying she wanted to not be self-destructive and ruin a relationship with me, nor push me away. She started giving me silent treatments, responding less to me, and asking me less about how I was doing. Generally seeming to be disinterested in me, even though she said she wasn't.

Her behavior indicates that she is distancing herself from you in spite of what she says. And it may be helpful to understand that for people with BPD (pwBPD), they have a disordered fear of abandonment and often their behaviors are in reaction to this fear that they will be abandoned (even though it may only be imagined).

After apologizing about my behavior, to which she accepted, she admitted that even though her mind was ready, her body couldn't catch up (this was her self-destructive tendency of becoming too cautious). It seems like she is protecting herself from becoming hurt, and withdrawing a lot of attention during the days.

You believe that it was because you were defensive in your disagreement that caused her to want to protect herself. And you apologized for this behavior.

We have been dating for about 3 months, it is a short relationship, but a very emotionally connected one. We fell in love very quickly, as I've heard these relationships sometimes go. The first 2 months were great, we never fought, only disagreed and constantly checked our own behaviors to make sure we were being good partners. We saw each other almost everyday, and things seemed to be smooth sailing.

I would argue that it was because of the enmeshment that occurred during the first 3 months of your relationship that was the trigger for her fear of abandonment.

Let me quote from A Developmental Model of Borderline Personality by Judd & McGlashan:

 We hypothesize that BPD may, in many instances, represent developmentally“internalized” PTSD. The emotional dysregulation inherent in BPD may result, in part, from a PTSD-like generalized stress-response pattern of hyperarousal and/or numbing, but the trigger is not a specific traumatic memory. The traumatic trigger is re-created in the context of a current relationship in which closeness exposes the BPD patient to actual or feared abuse in the form of emotional neglect, abandonment, or attack. The trauma is thereby re-created and relived rather than recalled, and the psychological and physiological stress reactions are part of the person’s characteristic response set within relationships and a core feature of the personality.

I added the boldface for emphasis. The key is that for pwBPD it is "the context of a current relationship" is their trigger. It may not be an immediate trigger, but it is often an inevitable trigger.

I feel like I have been permanently devalued as a partner and person.

I wouldn't expect you to be permanently devalued. But it may take some time before her fear will subside to the point that she may re-approach you.

To cope with this, I have begun to regulate my own emotions, and become so much more cautious of what I say and do (even though she claims that she wants me to be able to tell her anything), yet her actions speak otherwise. I see us approaching a paradoxical situation of self-destruction, and I would really like to stop it.

What part would you like to stop? Having to regulate your own emotions? Or her distancing from you? It seems to me that you can affect one but not the other.

For now I have decided to regain my sense of self, which she has influenced a loss of, and become emotionally stable enough to be okay without affection from her. I've told her about my worries, and that no matter what I would be there for her after she comes out of her depressive state. Should I be giving her space? (She says she doesn't want it, but her lessening of affection suggests otherwise).

I think space will allow her fears to dissipate. But you might consider doing so in a matter that still communicates to her that you are committed to being around if/when she needs. It will be like walking a tightrope.

I hope some of this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[FallBack!Monster]

autonomyfull,  

Similar stories? Yup all across this board. First off let me say, at least she's talking to you. My ex one day suddenly shut down and never spoke again.

Your story sounds as if I had written it.  My ex and I were good up until she one day just stopped texting, calling, replying or coming over.  I would ask what happened, the answer was always nothing!  Before the shut down we both talked a lot of crap. Told many stories, etc. She made me and I did her, a lot it seemed. Then she kept asking me to find her a life. I didn't think it was my job so I think she decided to go to find herself one without me in it.  

Sorry your going through this. I can only imagine how hard thing's might be for you at this moment in time. pwBPD say they want love and friendship but they make it so hard for us to understand them. That's why all of this.

It's good that you're finding ways to cope. So have I. You're right about her pushing you not having anything to do with you. With mine, it has always been all about her.   But there's one challenge that she's sort of standing in my way of facing.

Your writing was very clear to me. If you have more you'd like to share I welcome it. Me casa e su casa.

[autonomyfull]

@Schwing

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, it really did help. I initially did blame that singular event as the root of her withdrawal but after some reading, I do understand that a lot of factors influenced this.

I remember one time we were on our way home, and I was very tired and not much for conversation. After about 15 minutes of quiet, I went to hold her hand, to which she retracted and said she didn't want to talk anymore, this lasted the whole car ride. Later that day she apologized and said she thought I was ignoring her purposefully, even though I was just tired.

This specific example in our relationship is the greatest cue to me about her fears of being abandoned, just as a person who does not experience these fears, I am trying my best to accommodate and not let them drive me away from her. (I've heard about how these fears perpetuate abandonment).


@FallBack!Monster

Thank you so much for your encouragement, I'm sorry that she just cut off all ties with you that must have been such a painful time for you. You're right it wasn't your job and I'm glad you chose not to accommodate because that would have proved so toxic for you.

I'm glad she is still communicating with me. Actually after I posted this, I called her and we talked about our days briefly and she ended the conversation with an "I love you", which I didn't expect because I still sensed distance. This proves to me that she's at least making an active effort to fight her typical 'reactions' and close the space.

The hardest thing for me, as someone who does not experience what she does, is understanding this disconnect between thoughts and actions. I can tell she wants to close the distance, or I can assume (which I know is dangerous but its a self-rationalization of mine), but she doesn't through her actions. At first I confused this with an inflated ego or a sense of pride, but I think I owe her a benefit of the doubt.

[waverider]

When you first meet a pwBPD they mirror you, they want to be like you. This is not a conscious thing, they actually believe this mirror image they are projecting, hence the bonding is genuine. However when the time comes for a disagreement, it creates a crack in that mirror.

This can create fear in them as they then believe that you may not be who they think you are, that you are being fake because you are not really like them. You are either twin bonded, or not at all, in their black and white view of things.

Hence they probe you for your thoughts and want to know everything you think or feel. This is not acceptance, this is based on suspicion and paranoia.  The more you try to assure and convince them that all is well, the more they suspect you of hiding something. This new insecure apologetic you is not the self confident stable persona that first attracted them. They want to be like you, as you were, not as you are becoming.

This is the stage we start to muck up and the divide grows as our efforts to repair things actually widen the gap.

So what to do? Step back regain yourself and your confidence. Become that "with it" person they were drawn  to in the first place. Dont dance with their ghosts and shadows. Show who you are by being you, not by trying to sell you.  They know selling, that is their life, they dont want you selling an image, otherwise you are the same as them, they dont trust it, and hence not the rock to respect.

It is always important to remember pwBPD will try to change you, if you let them they wont respect you. In a way they are testing you, even if they are not aware of it. To comply is to fail. This does not mean being stubborn and taking the opposite stance out of principle, rather always stop and think of the big picture, what we call staying centered, and not being overwhelmed by the "immediacy" that is the powerful modus operandus of pwBPD.

Always be aware of acting out of counter reaction, this is the antagonist to consistency. pwBPD can adapt to many things as long as it is consistent and unambiguous (ie black and white>their language)

Waverider

[Skip]

So what to do? Step back regain yourself and your confidence. Become that "with it" person they were drawn  to in the first place.

This is my suggestion, too.

Most relationships don't last past 90 days, a statistical fact, as this is often when couples start to move beyond the honeymoon period. I say that not to suggest that your relationship is doomed, more to make the point that you are likely starting the transition to the next stage and its going to be different and you need to adjust your approach.

So you two where having a friendly debate and you jumped on her for not agreeing with you... .If she has BPD or BPD traits, she likely grew up in an invalidating environment and you just dropped a 40 sack of marbles on her head.

So now what?

I'd follow the advice of "be the with it person she was drawn, too". Give her time to process this - it will take time. She will want to see that it doesn't happen again and that, by definition, takes time.

So what not to do?

Don't fall all over yourself asking her to validate you that everything is OK. That will make this far worse - you will appear weak and insecure.

Tell us more... .what specifically was the disagreement about?  How did you react? How did she respond to that?

[prettyflowers]

So what to do? Step back regain yourself and your confidence. Become that "with it" person they were drawn to in the first place. Dont dance with their ghosts and shadows.

Thank you for this wonderfully insightful suggestion. It's a great reminder that taking a step to stand on my own is a no-lose move during a time of testing, push/pull, and uncertainty.

[waverider]

So what to do? Step back regain yourself and your confidence. Become that "with it" person they were drawn to in the first place. Dont dance with their ghosts and shadows.

Thank you for this wonderfully insightful suggestion. It's a great reminder that taking a step to stand on my own is a no-lose move during a time of testing, push/pull, and uncertainty.

Ironically this is also the point where we can get hooked into a victim and rescuer relationship, and you try to be that one person who finally understands her and prove you are not like everyone she has known before. The cycle of "things will be great once we solve the next little drama" starts.

You must avoid this or she will play that role to entice validation out of you, and it starts to be the normal as you are tempted to think that an ideal future is just on the other side of tomorrow. Life ends up on hold.

It is important to make sure your default actions are to actively do something, not to slip into a hold pattern pending some current resolution.

eg:
"Tommorrow I am going to do XYZ, would you like to come?"
rather than
"When you are feeling better we can for do XYZ"

This increases the odds of XYZ happening, it is the default action that will happen barring a strong reason for it not to.

Its all about staying dynamically structured, rather than allowing the disorder to attach a ball and chain to you. Many members will report that "life" seems to grind to a halt. BPD can be a chronic time sponge.

Can you give any examples of how any of this is potentially showing in your relationship?

[autonomyfull]

Hence they probe you for your thoughts and want to know everything you think or feel. This is not acceptance, this is based on suspicion and paranoia.  The more you try to assure and convince them that all is well, the more they suspect you of hiding something. This new insecure apologetic you is not the self confident stable persona that first attracted them. They want to be like you, as you were, not as you are becoming.

@waverider

Although I understand that this is how a pwBPD thinks, it's just hard for me to cope with. It's hard because I'm always changing as a person, and I feel I have my ups and downs as well. It just sucks to think the moment I enter a necessary 'down', even if I know I will naturally get back up again, all my motives and the relationship will come into question to my partner or I have to cope with it completely without her.

I mean this is just something I must accept it seems, or find ways to articulate clearly to her - its just a lot of pressure and I'm trying to remain clear headed about it.

I appreciate the information, it helps a lot.

I'd follow the advice of "be the with it person she was drawn, too". Give her time to process this - it will take time. She will want to see that it doesn't happen again and that, by definition, takes time.

So what not to do?

Don't fall all over yourself asking her to validate you that everything is OK. That will make this far worse - you will appear weak and insecure.

Tell us more... .what specifically was the disagreement about?  How did you react? How did she respond to that?

@Skip

I'm seeing that is true now more than ever. I remember the last few days I was a little insecure, or seeking her validation that everything was OK and she said to me "what's going on with you, you've been acting weird." I thought I was acting like myself, just a little insecure because she had been seeming irritated with me a bit and acting differently, so I was a little mind-blown when she claimed I was acting differently. I thought it was a natural reaction to her change in behavior, but with all this insight I am starting to understand.

The disagreement was about philosophical language. The day before we were talking about logic and how I think and choose my words carefully in order to be precise. She began talking about how that kind of thinking she couldn't understand, using the same language I presented the day before. So I became defensive, because it felt like she was attacking how I thought as a person, using the same phrases and explanations of my thoughts, then critiquing them. When I said this, she got irritated and said she wasn't just regurgitating what I was saying, and no matter how hard I tried to explain that that's not what I meant, she wasn't convinced. This led to a whole 20 minutes conversation in which we couldn't understand each other because we were both too defensive. I really didn't take enough care to deescalate my own emotions.

eg:
"Tommorrow I am going to do XYZ, would you like to come?"
rather than
"When you are feeling better we can for do XYZ"

Ironically this is also the point where we can get hooked into a victim and rescuer relationship, and you try to be that one person who finally understands her and prove you are not like everyone she has known before. The cycle of "things will be great once we solve the next little drama" starts.

You must avoid this or she will play that role to entice validation out of you, and it starts to be the normal as you are tempted to think that an ideal future is just on the other side of tomorrow. Life ends up on hold.

@waverider

That's actually how I began almost every date with her at the start of the relationship. Instead of asking or waiting for her approval, I told her I was going to do these things, and asked if she wanted to come along. I made it a point to tell her I was going to do them anyway because I sensed hesitation.

Any advice to stop this pattern dead in its tracks? I have begun to stop apologizing for things out of unjustified guilt and recognize that I do not need her validation to keep on living my life. I used to get anxiety in order to get her validation, but I am working on just learning to cope and let go, or apologize if its justified guilt then immediately let go.


Some updates

I think the distance closed a good amount yesterday. We went to six flags and it felt like none of that stuff ever happened. At first, I sensed some physical distance, but about an hour into the trip our affection was back to what it was. We had a very good and calm day yesterday.

I do believe we are entering the transition period from the honeymoon phase. I really would like to make this relationship last, and she constantly says she does too. She even makes jokes about marriage and kids and such (which i don't indulge because I know she can't truly mean it and only said it in the moment when she's happy with me). Right now, we are very much entering a phase of normalcy, in which we don't have to see each other everyday, and have a general pattern of living our lives with each other in it. My fear though is that she will become bored of the relationship, or forget how she felt during the super intense times and devalue our time together for something else, or new.

One way that I'm coping with dating a pwBPD is that she won't allow me to become insecure, because I will lose her and that this is a good thing. But a part of me also believes insecurity is sometimes a functional and good thing people have to make it through.

I apologize if this post is too sporadic and doesn't seem linear, I'm just scrambling to give as much information as I can about me, her, and the relationship.

[waverider]

Any advice to stop this pattern dead in its tracks? I have begun to stop apologizing for things out of unjustified guilt and recognize that I do not need her validation to keep on living my life. I used to get anxiety in order to get her validation, but I am working on just learning to cope and let go, or apologize if its justified guilt then immediately let go.

One way that I'm coping with dating a pwBPD is that she won't allow me to become insecure, because I will lose her and that this is a good thing. But a part of me also believes insecurity is sometimes a functional and good thing people have to make it through.

Insecurity is your alarm bell, you just have to be aware of the sensitivity setting

Most of it comes down to awareness and consistency, acceptance of the fact you wont always do textbook responses.  It is about being centered and not drawn too far away from that, but being aware that you will constantly step off the track, realize it is the wrong path and step back.

It is hard to preempt the the dynamics in the moment, but you soon learn to trust your alarm bells that this is not quite right and then make the necessary corrections. To make this smoother you learn to not be reactive in the moment. BPD creates an environment of urgency prompting us to react, or feel like we need to respond quickly to head off drama. Pausing and holding back gives us better time to get a fuller picture, and often for many issues to resolve themselves.

pwBPd are often just thinking aloud, and when we jump in with our response we actually interrupt that chain of thought and anchor an issue before they have even really thought it through. Conversely our responses can be taken, and reiterated back to us, as undisputed fact, so be very cautious of thinking aloud, as you can't take it back.

So pause, acknowledge and say you want to think about it and come back to it if you have to. Always give yourself breathing space, otherwise you find you will find yourself down that rabbit hole before you are even aware it existed.

Although I understand that this is how a pwBPD thinks, it's just hard for me to cope with.

This is the essence of a BPD relationship, and we have to accept that, with all the knowledge in the world there will be times when you just can't cope. Accept it, let it pass, and pick up again tomorrow. Even the wisest heads here wont always be capable of sticking to their own advice. The constant grind of it simply wears you down at times and you simply want to take a day off from wearing the "carers hat".


TBH in my relationship the only times there is high conflict now is when I start it, and i am having a "cant be bothered with this" moment. I am aware of it, I know its not best practice, but still let it out, but also have the tools to fix it up. Its like a summer storm on an otherwise fine day. I know what it is, accept it will happen, and it will pass, it doesn't make it a bad summer.

Trying to aim for perfection can cause you to build up enormous stress that is bound to come out sooner or later. We are human, dont let that be denied, you are allowed the full range of emotions that come with that, even if it ruffles a few feathers in the moment. Be aware and let it pass.

It is our world too.

Waverider