The questions

[jrharvey]

Im wondering if anyone else experiences this on a regular basis and how they react. Does anyone else find themselves explaining or defending basic things? Does anyone else feel like like they are in trouble for living a normal human life?

Me and my girlfriend made a deal kind of. I gave her a list of things I wanted her to do such as learning DBT skills and talking to the therapist. She also gave me a list of things she wanted me to do. The list she gave me included not getting upset when she ask her questions. I agreed and I still have no problem with answering questions. Its still hard knowing the reasons behind the questions and I'm not sure how my answers will make her feel. I think I have been doing a really good job of just answering questions and not showing any emotional reaction.

Some of the questions are... .

She wanted to know why I was on my phone when I was home and she was at work. I recently installed a camera in my house because she was really worried I was bringing girls over while she was gone. She checks the videos pretty regularly and notices things. I was watching a movie all morning, working out and I checked my phone then went to the gym. She wanted to know why I was on my phone and I ended up explaining that I may have been checking her texts, reading an article, playing an audiobook or doing a youtube cast. I explained that I didn't text anyone other than one of my guy friends.

She asked why it took me 25 minutes to drive to the gym. I explained everything I did. I took the trash out, drove to the gas station to get a drink and snack, told her it was busy in there and then drove to the gym. The gym is 13 minutes away usually without traffic or stopping anywhere so 25 minutes total didn't seem like a long time. After I explained she asked why it took so long. I asked if she was worried about anything like me meeting girls or something and she said no, I just want to know why it took you so long to drive to the gym. At that point I felt kind of hopeless to answer in a way would make her happy again. I told her what I did but she still questions it and worries.

When I was at the gym she called and I answered in the gym and walked outside to talk to her. She asked me... .Why are you talking quiet? Why do you need to go outside? Why cant you talk in the gym? I explain that I don't want people to hear my business and I don't want to bother strangers with loud talking at the gym. I walked outside so I could have privacy with her. She said nothing was wrong with talking in the gym and doing that makes her feel like I am with someone at the gym and I don't want that person knowing I am talking to my girlfriend. I told her I didn't go to the gym with anyone and I just walked outside to have privacy and be able to talk to her without distraction.

After all that things went pretty well and she was loving the rest of the day.

This is something she ask maybe 50% of the mornings though. She asks me why it took me so long to get ready in the morning. Not in a joking way. She is very serious. I can wake up, go in the bathroom and get ready and come out and she ask... .why did it take you so long. It takes the same amount every morning and she ask why it took so long a lot of times. It seems to me that if it takes that long every morning then that is the normal amount of time. I explain to her that I have to use the bathroom, brush my teeth, wash my hair, dry my hair, style my hair, get dressed etc... .
After explaining she ask... .but why did it take so long? That's hard. I just went through step by step but she still questions and still worries I'm doing something bad behind her back.



Im not sure if there is something I need to say or do with all of this. I feel like I am the suspect of a murder trial all the time and its tough because it kills intimacy and just puts us in this state of defend, defend, defend. You cant be loving and affectionate when your partner is worried your doing something wrong and when your being asked to prove you didn't do anything wrong.

I guess the main reason for writing all this is that Im just wondering if everyone here has this similar situation and what is the proper way to handle all of this both externally and internally.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[BowlOfPetunias]

Your post sounds like you have no boundaries at all.   You have actually set up a camera so she can spy on you in hopes that that would satisfy her.  Not only was this an unacceptable invasion of your right to privacy, but it clearly has only stimulated more questions!

Also, how can she learn to trust you when she doesn't have to trust you--it's all on tape.

You need to take the camera down.  NOW.  Period. 

Then you need to work on setting other boundaries.

You are not 15 and she is not your mother.  You do not need to provide a minute-by-minute account of everything you did in a day.  You SHOULD NOT provide such an account.  A good boundary would be general questions are OKAY (Where did you go this morning?  To the gymn) but she needs to accept that as the answer and not try to dig down deeper and deeper.  She needs to trust you, and that means boundaries.

[Wrongturn1]

jrharvey:  I think any objective observer would say that you are allowing yourself to be subjected to a lot of abuse.  Healthy relationships do not involve installing a security camera in your dwelling so she can see you're not cheating; healthy relationships do not include interrogations.  You have a right to boundaries around this type of behavior.  

The next time she starts interrogating, you would be well within your rights to say something along the lines of, "for a long time now, I have played along with a lot of questioning that crosses a line into abusive territory - I will no longer be interrogated about these things, and if I sense that a conversation is turning into an interrogation, I reserve the right to temporarily leave the room/house/apartment/etc. and come back in an hour when we can have a healthier conversation."  

You could further explain that you're not up to any unfaithfulness and that all these interrogations have not resulted in any long-term comfort for her and so there is no point in you continuing to participate in them.  :)on't expect her to like this, and don't expect her not to go ballistic about it.  However, you don't need her permission to stop subjecting yourself to abuse.

[Wrongturn1]

Oh, and I also meant to say, that security camera is ridiculous.  Take it down.

[schwing]

Hi Jrharvey,

Im wondering if anyone else experiences this on a regular basis and how they react. Does anyone else find themselves explaining or defending basic things? Does anyone else feel like like they are in trouble for living a normal human life?

I hope it helps you to understand that behind all your BPD girlfriend's questioning are her disordered feelings of fear of (imagined) abandonment. She is trying to make sense out of why she is feeling the way she does, and for now the best she can do is to verify that you are not planning to abandon her through her questions.

She wanted to know why I was on my phone when I was home and she was at work ... .
She wanted to know why I was on my phone and I ended up explaining that I may have been checking her texts, reading an article, playing an audiobook or doing a youtube cast.
She asked why it took me 25 minutes to drive to the gym... .

Behind each of these questions is a paranoia that you are doing something behind her back.

I asked if she was worried about anything like me meeting girls or something and she said no, I just want to know why it took you so long to drive to the gym.

And you see her "logic" is: I'm feeling this way because it's the truth that Jrharvey is planning to abandon me (by cheating). But when she can't find the "proof" that her *disordered* feelings are justified, then she denies that she has these feelings. She cannot accept that her feelings are disordered. She basically wants you to bare responsibility (in one way or another) for her feelings. Act accordingly.

After explaining she ask... .but why did it take so long? That's hard. I just went through step by step but she still questions and still worries I'm doing something bad behind her back.

Her words are "why did it take so long?" but her subtext is "why do I feel differently this morning?"  Again, she feels differently but she wants you to take responsibility for her feelings, so what did *you* do differently to make her feel this way?

Im not sure if there is something I need to say or do with all of this. I feel like I am the suspect of a murder trial all the time and its tough because it kills intimacy and just puts us in this state of defend, defend, defend. You cant be loving and affectionate when your partner is worried your doing something wrong and when your being asked to prove you didn't do anything wrong.

To have to answer to all these suspicions does hurt intimacy. But have you considered that it is exactly when she feels intimate and close to you that these "questions" present?  For people with BPD (pwBPD), feelings of closeness and intimacy are a trigger for their disordered feelings. This is perhaps why it's always after  "loving" periods that she asks most of her questions. As an experiment, try spending time with her where your behavior is more formal and distant.  Not cold and disconnected, but available just cool.  See how that might go.

Me and my girlfriend made a deal kind of. I gave her a list of things I wanted her to do such as learning DBT skills and talking to the therapist. She also gave me a list of things she wanted me to do. The list she gave me included not getting upset when she ask her questions. I agreed and I still have no problem with answering questions.

In theory, DBT skills should help her manage her emotions better.  However, the emotions she has to deal with in the context of a close and intimate relationship are the biggest emotions she currently has to deal with. Learning DBT skills while in a romantic relationship is like asking someone to begin weight training but having to compete in weight lifting competitions every day... .you'll become discouraged.

Its still hard knowing the reasons behind the questions and I'm not sure how my answers will make her feel. I think I have been doing a really good job of just answering questions and not showing any emotional reaction.

If you are waiting until she is peppering you with questions to "not show any emotional reaction" then it's already too late.  She is *already* dealing with disordered feelings by the time she is questioning you. You might try limiting your emotional reaction before.

I hope some of this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[sweetheart]

Hello jrharvey,

I understand, as will others here, the belief that by laying ourselves bare to our SO, by bending to their every whim and request, we will in some way convince them totally that our love is true. That by being transparent and open and visible to them they will be reassured and therefore everything will be alright, they can trust you no matter what.

What you have found however is that this approach is not reassuring your gf at all, in fact it is creating a whole other world of problems for her and you. 

I want you to think about how you would respond to your post if it was written by another member, what would your support sound like for them?

Here is a link exploring what a healthy relationship looks like, have a read and come back and let us know your thoughts  https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a115.htm

[Skip]

You need to take the camera down.  NOW.  Period... // ... .She needs to trust you, and that means boundaries.

Do you think that this will work? Unilaterally taking the camera down (period   )and demanding trust or else?

I think an important point that was not mentioned here is that the camera was jrharvey's "trust building" solution and prior to these "trust building" efforts, tensions rose to the level of two-way domestic violence in this relationship.

It is this immersion into hyper-accountability that has tamed the "domestic violence" tensions... .for now.

Is it too much? Is the plan enabling? Is she doing any work or is jrharvey doing all the lifting? Is there an exit strategy to move beyond daily "did you have sex with a stranger in the in the coffee shop bathroom while waiting for your latte" questions.

Her father was a serial cheater. He spent a lot of money on prostitutes when she was a child. He went out all the time and he always promised to change but never did. She thought he changed the last 10 years or so but he just got caught having another affair a week ago. Her brothers are also big cheaters. She moved away from her family when she was in college and lived with her aunt/uncle. Her uncle attempted to sexually abuse her but it sounds like she moved out of the state before he could do anything. Her last serious boyfriend cheated on her.

I understand why she is so obsessed but it doesn't make things better. Its like when abusers say they abuse you because they were abused as a child. You can sympathize with them but it doesn't make the abuse ok.

You offered this earlier as the reason for the trust issues. Trust issues and fear of abandonment are BPD hallmarks. Has there been any problem behavior on your part in the past? Something more direct?

My suggestion is for the two of you to read a infidelity recovery book... .it is about rebuilding trust and the approach is pretty well honed. It does include excessive accountability but it also includes accountability on both partners. In other words, the transparency on your side needs to come with respect on her side which includes stopping the accusations.

Its one thing to have a camera and to let her see your phone/bill and log... .but that needs to come with the mutual agreement that you are doing it to build trust, not to devolve the trust to the level full time verification of fidelity.

  To answer the question " is anyone else experiencing this on a regular basis and how they react.", yes, this is what happens after a great violating breach of trust like infidelity. Couples do recover from this and this in one common technique but it is typically administered using a therapist would holds both parties accountable to rebuild the trust and who flags/discourages either side from taking advantage of the other party. You can't play thew enforcer role - you need someone else to take that heat.

It sounds to me like you need some help with this. Her insecurities are real, its good that you accept that. I think your plan is tilting over on the side of being enabling - yet still better than slamming doors and face hitting.

There is a lot of drama in this relationship (both ways)... .I suspect you both like the emotional validation that this brings (Oh please do leave me - I will prove my love in every way)... .you might be able to replace this with a more positive reinforcement.

[BowlOfPetunias]

":)o you think that this will work? Unilaterally taking the camera down (period   )and demanding trust or else?"

Demanding trust?  No, but HE has to understand that allowing her to play Big Brother is not building trust.  The Stasi did not trust East Germans.  Nor did the East Germans trust the Stasi, for that matter.  They feared the Stasi, and that is what the camera is accomplishing in this relationship--increasing his fear.  Love can't be built upon fear.

How she responds to the camera coming down is not the only issue here.  Whatever the rationale for putting up the camera, the fact remains that it is an incredible violation of privacy that is enabling her to further abuse him (with detailed questions about what he is doing in the camera's recordings.)  I see this issue as comparable to physical abuse.  The victim may justify the abuse--"I deserve it--He/She is only doing it because... ."--but that would not stop any of us from saying that physical abuse must stop right now, period.  Nor would the fact that telling the physical abuser to stop would upset him/her.  The camera needs to come down because it is UNACCEPTABLE.  He should explain why the camera was a bad idea, but taking it down should not be open for discussion.

[Wrongturn1]

My suggestion is for the two of you to read a infidelity recovery book... .it is about rebuilding trust and the approach is pretty well honed. It does include excessive accountability but it also includes accountability on both partners. In other words, the transparency on your side needs to come with respect on her side which includes stopping the accusations.

Its one thing to have a camera and to let her see your phone/bill and log... .but that needs to come with the mutual agreement that you are doing it to build trust, not to devolve the trust to the level full time verification of fidelity.

The suggestions above would be very helpful for a relationship in which neither person suffers from BPD.  However, jrharvey's partner has BPD and is therefore not capable of trusting jrharvey or anyone else in the context of an intimate relationship.  So reading an infidelity recovery book is not something I would expect to be successful, whether or not jrharvey has committed any "problem behavior". 

I had forgotten about the physical violence history in the relationship.  If jrharvey wants to keep the security camera operational as protection against false accusations, that would be fine, but I would encourage him not to subject himself to interrogations over the camera footage if the camera stays.

[Skip]

I see this issue as comparable to physical abuse... // ... .The camera needs to come down because it is UNACCEPTABLE.  He should explain why the camera was a bad idea, but taking it down should not be open for discussion.

Your advice is heard. We're a collegial format here and its OK, even preferred, that some members offer different advise and have different points of view.

I recently realized that as a child I took responsibility for my parents emotions--my sister was so horrible, so I had to make them happy by being exactly what they wanted (as interpreted through my abusive grandmother.)  They did not become happy, so I had to feel guilty.  And, worst of all, they continued to ignore me.

Clearly you have valuable life experience in this area... .

[Meili]

I think that those in this thread have ignored the fact that jrharvey never asked anyone for their thoughts on the cameras. Maybe, it might be more helpful if his actual questions were addressed rather than giving personal opinions on a choice that he has already made.

With that in mind, yes jrharvey, I have experienced both sides of this. With my second exwife, I would interrogate her about infidelity issues. She would talk to other men online all day while I was at work and then stay up until all hours doing it. She finally left me for someone guy that she met online. No matter what her answers were, or how much she tried to prove that I was wrong, I would never believe her. My insecurities about her abandoning me were peaked. In my case, I was right about the ultimate outcome. But, I will forever wonder if I created the outcome or not. I should note that she was uBPD.

On the flip side, I've had to deal with the interrogations also. I remember how frustrating it was to have to account for my whereabouts every moment. How any friend that I had, male or female, was a threat to my ex's security. It was physically and emotionally draining. I became isolated and basically never left the house save and except to go to work or with my ex. I was even accused of hooking up with female clients at my office during the day. It was all quite maddening.

I dealt with all of it very poorly back then because I had no idea about using tools to cultivate a healthier relationship. If I could do it all over again, I would try to find ways to help her feel more secure in the relationship. If the cameras are a temporary tool to reduce her anxiety, and it works for both you, I won't judge. What else can you think of to help her feel more secure?

[Jessica84]

JADE = justify, argue, defend, explain

Steer clear of this. It's natural to want to defend yourself, but don't. The more you explain, the guiltier you look. You also run the risk of saying too much, giving her even more ammo to use against you. Answer her question once and leave out the details. You can tell your "truth" without divulging every detail.

"Why did it take you so long to get ready?" - "I don't know. That's my morning routine." Smile, kiss her forehead, move on.

"Why did it take you 25 minutes to go to the gym?" - "Traffic I guess" or ":)id it? I hadn't noticed".

"Why can't you talk inside the gym?" - "It's too noisy and I want to hear you better." Then ask about her day. Change the subject.

You need to act as if you've done nothing wrong... .since you haven't!  Also try validating without leading her - instead of asking "are you worried I will meet other girls?", try "what's on your mind?" or "where is this coming from?" This lets her express her feelings first, then you'll know what to validate, instead of guessing -- because guessing wrong can be invalidating.

[jrharvey]

"Why did it take you so long to get ready?" - "I don't know. That's my morning routine." Smile, kiss her forehead, move on.

Doing this makes her go cold and distant as she feels like I don't care about her questions maybe.

"Why did it take you 25 minutes to go to the gym?" - "Traffic I guess" or ":)id it? I hadn't noticed".

After this I get the Why, Why, Why, Why over and over again. I have either the choice of being a jerk and hanging up on her or getting sucked into JADE. No amount of changing the subject works.

"Why can't you talk inside the gym?" - "It's too noisy and I want to hear you better." Then ask about her day. Change the subject.

Ive tried this before and same as above. I get sucked into a no win situation of either force ending the convo which pisses her off or JADEing which pisses her off. Changing the subject I get accused of avoiding the questions which makes me look guilty.

[Meili]

jrharvey, you do know that you are not responsible for her feelings right?

[Skip]

How much of a problem is this for you?

How often does it happen (always, periodically, occasionally, once in a while)?

[BowlOfPetunias]

Your advice is heard. We're a collegial format here and its OK, even preferred, that some members offer different advise and have different points of view.

I was not saying that the topic is not open for discussion in this forum.  I said that he should not discuss whether or not to take it down with his girlfriend.  He does not need her permission to take it down.  It is an unreasonable violation of his right to privacy and it has only led to further abuse.

[Jessica84]

Yes, I get that she won't like it. I know that it looks and feels dismissive. It's about protecting yourself and ending her interrogations. You have more choices than being a jerk or JADEing.

You have both become comfortable with this dynamic. It will take time to start a new dynamic. She needs to self-soothe without dragging you into it with endless questions. It may feel foreign to you to let her as she may not react well to it. That is her dilemma, not yours.

You are the healthy one here. It's up to you to set the boundaries. Take the lead. She can adapt, or not. If she comes unglued, you can walk away or hang up. It's not rude or selfish. It's self-preservation. Over time, she can learn that the conversation will end if she starts interrogating, lessening the behavior, possibly extinguishing it.

Read about extinction bursts:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

Know in advance it may get worse before it gets better. Ride it out and be consistent.

[jrharvey]

How much of a problem is this for you?

How often does it happen (always, periodically, occasionally, once in a while)?

Every day. Multiple times a day. It starts in the morning and ends before we go to bed. Almost anything can cause a slew of questions.

[Skip]

That's more than we normally see, jrharvey. It really sounds like the traits of paranoia (PPD). Have you looked at that?

In things like PPD or OCD, nothing you do is going to relieve her concerns - or put another way - there is no solution to ending her paranoid feelings. What is possible is for you not to be caught up in them (your side of the street) and for her to be mindful that they are hardwired concerns and adopt impulse control (CBT, DBT). Basically, the BPD therapy model.

CBT is at the base or trust rehabilitation, infidelity rehabilitation, but as Wrongturn1 noted, reading a book is not going to be enough. All that can do is start the process of establishing method and third party assessment. You need to move the reference point away from your feeling and her feelings to "norms".

As you cannot play the role of be the supervising therapist in setting norms, it means getting someone involved.

Me and my girlfriend made a deal kind of. I gave her a list of things I wanted her to do such as learning DBT skills and talking to the therapist. She also gave me a list of things she wanted me to do. The list she gave me included not getting upset when she ask her questions. I agreed and I still have no problem with answering questions. Its still hard knowing the reasons behind the questions and I'm not sure how my answers will make her feel. I think I have been doing a really good job of just answering questions and not showing any emotional reaction.

It's good that you have a mutual agreement and you are holding your side up.

Is it time to book that appointment for the two of you and move on her side of the agreement?

[Jessica84]

Untangle yourself from her temporary emotions. So what if she goes cold and distant. So what if she gets pissed off. So what if she thinks you're a jerk. She'll get over it. Don't take the bait. If she reacts badly, remove yourself from the fallout. Let her self-soothe. That's her job, not yours. Re-convene when it's safe, when things are calmer.

I know you mean well, but you are rewarding her for bad behavior. The more she tries to control you, the more she loses control of herself. Then the less comfortable you feel, which she senses, and triggers her fears, sucking you into her downward spiral.

You can show her a healthier way of coping with her feelings by leading by example. Validation is only one part of the equation. You also have to insert boundaries. This is for you, but ultimately it will help her too. She needs you to have boundaries. Questioning you all the time, monitoring your whereabouts, has to be exhausting for her. She will wear herself out. And you, too. And it will continue to escalate. Remember with boundaries you don't have to tell her what you are doing or why. She will see it, feel it. In time, she will respect it. The goal should be ending the conflicts. Giving in isn't working so why not try something different?

[BowlOfPetunias]

In things like PPD or OCD, nothing you do is going to relieve her concerns - or put another way - there is no solution to ending her paranoid feelings.

This is not accurate as far as OCD goes.  Family members/loved ones can play an important role in supporting people with OCD as they deal with their obsessive thoughts and overcome their compulsions, largely by not participating in rituals and by supporting exposure-based therapy.  If her behavior is related to OCD, it would be helpful to stop participating in the compulsive activity (do not give detailed explanations and take down the camera!) and to provide exposure to her trigger--being separated from you without being able to constantly monitor your actions.

[jrharvey]

Do you really think this sounds more like PPD or OCD rather than BPD? They seem so linked together. Wouldn't a lot of BPD symptoms be related to paranoia?

EDIT: Also Paranoia of abandonment or cheating is a big part of BPD.

[Skip]

25% of women with BPD also have traits of PPD, so yes it's possible.  It's certainly something to consider.

On the short-term, what might be most helpful is to recognize that if it is PPD, the thought pattern hardwired. This means, while she could learn to deal with it better and you could support her in doing that, the feelings of jealousy are always going to be there. It means this is going to be a permanent part of your relationship that the two of you will need to learn to manage together. It will also mean that even with the body cam,  she will still be asking questions.

I dated someone with OCD.  We worked it out, but the thought pattern never changed, we just learned to deal with it better. For example, if she asked me to help with the dishes, I wash them and put them in a drain board where she would have access to rewash them before putting them in the dishwasher.

It's all about living with a disability.

[isilme]

I think a big problem jrharvey is facing is trying to treat irrational emotional needs with rational, emotional logical explanations.

She's worried about cheating - a camera is installed to show with facts that it's not happening.  For a person whose fears can be assuaged with logic, this may have been enough.  But her fears are NOT based on logic, so they shifted to travel time, reasons for changing the location of taking a phone call, etc.  There will probably always be a new reason for her to fear, based on the past history outlined, as well as her own inability at this time to manage her emotions. 

And, for those with BPD, fear of cheating seems to be very prevalent.  H is the only person I have ever, in my life, been involved with, and yet he still has a belief that I have cheated on him at some time.  I faced disbelief at my recent physical when answers questions about intimate partners, number of pregnancies, etc (0), and know it's atypical, but it's just how I am wired.  But, partly because H himself was an emotional cheater in the past, and has been the one close to being unfaithful, he projected all of that onto me, even though it is totally untrue.

Also, even if you get past the cheating fears, or at least get them to a more reasonable level, the triggers for questions and dysregulations may simply shift.

You mentioned your GF having to talk to a therapist.  Do you also see that person or anyone?  Do they have any input as far as the camera and stringent control of your movements?

[jrharvey]

But, partly because H himself was an emotional cheater in the past, and has been the one close to being unfaithful, he projected all of that onto me, even though it is totally untrue

I have worried about this but she literally spends every moment with me she can. Unless we get in a fight then she may leave but I am not too worried about her cheating. The the only time I worry is when I feel like MAYBE she will do it for revenge when she feels like I wronged her.

Your right. I have been fighting emotional fears with logic and reason. The truth is I spend my whole life rationally solving problems and logically making decisions. Especially as a guy its hard for me to think emotionally unless she makes me super angry. Im just not an emotional person. I think rationally and logically 99% of the time. Even if I could think like an emotional person Im not sure how that would help.

I'm actually not seeing any solution. I keep hearing from people that I'm trying to solve this rationally with an irrational person. I get that part. I also get that people are saying that I cannot fix this problem and I wont be able to calm her fears and to just let it happen. If she gets upset just let her get upset. THAT IS THE HARD PART. I just cant seem to get it. She gets upset and I guess I get my own abandonment fears. I don't have delusional abandonment fears like someone with BPD but when she literally acts cold, distant or physically leaves it hits a very sensitive part of my mind. It definitely triggers me.

I don't know how to stop this trigger of mine. I feel lonely, abandoned and hurt. This is turn makes me angry and sometimes I have my own emotional reactions that don't go so well at all. I blew up completely the other night. I really blew up because we spent the night talking about the "what if there is a girl at the gym with you". I knew she wanted me to say that if there was a girl at the gym I would leave. But I said that if there was a girl I would continue working out and just not talk to her. If she bothered me I would leave. She didn't like that answer and left the bed and went in the living room. I didn't like this. I felt abandoned. I tried to go out and talk rationally. Didn't help. She ignored me and when I was trying to express my feelings she didn't listen and just kept typing on the computer and at one point started singing. I got so angry and lost control.

I NEED HELP on changing my reaction. I lost it. I completely lost it and start yelling. I grabbed her computer and tried to yell her into listening to me or even acknowledge me standing here. She actually started singing and dancing which in turn triggered me even more. I completely lost control and told her this was it and I wanted to break up because I cant deal with this anymore. I was so mad I spent the night listening to her feelings and she wouldn't listen to mine.

I don't know how to control it. I don't have the skills to cope with that. Why do I do it? Why do I try to force it? Why cant I just let it go? If I could rework this in my brain maybe I could have a different reaction. Maybe I need a sponsor like in AA or something.

[motherhen]

You sound like a pretty emotional person. Here is the thing though, even the most logical and rational person can and will lose it emotionally because the BPD will push, push, push until they get a reaction even if that comes in the form of explosive anger. If we don't learn to cope within ourselves, we risk taking on their traits.

You are acknowledging you have triggers. That is a big step. Saying it out loud in the moment helps release some pressure. "I'm feeling very triggered and abandoned right now". Then replace the wrong behaviors with some better ones. "I'm taking a walk and will be back in 30 minutes". Take some deep breaths and break the suction of the giant vacuum that is pulling you in. She might get mad, but you must put your oxygen mask on yourself first. She's mad at you a lot anyway, so at least have it be for making a good choice for yourself before things cross back into DV.

Have you looked up DBT skills? Those would be very helpful to you in the moment. Being ignored is a huge trigger to me, but I can talk myself through why it triggers me and remind myself that I only have to deal with this moment and not all of the childhood emotions it triggers in me.

[isilme]

I NEED HELP on changing my reaction.  

This is pretty much the first thing you CAN work on  The only person in the world you can actually work to change is YOU.  So good, that's totally within your power.  

One thing you can do is refuse to own her emotions.  She's allowed to be upset.  This was a big mistake I used to make (and still do plenty of time and have to remind myself to stop).  I grew up an only child with BOTH parents with BPD.  Yay.  So I an a co-dependent queen, who felt that all emotions around me were my job to fix.  Guess what?  They aren't.  So when H starts getting upset about anything, I tell myself he has a right to his own feelings.  I don't need to tell him when he's allowed to be upset, and though him being upset triggers my co-dependent need to "fix" things, I have to accept that I often can't.  I can't "fix" his choice to wait till the last minute to do something.  So at times, this meant I had to let him fail at things.  

You GF needs to have her emotions.  She needs to get them out.  You can't try to put that genie back in the bottle with surveillance or the perfect answers to her queries.  LET her get upset.  Burt stick yo your guns if it's something that matters to you.  Like working out at the gym.  That seems to be an issue.  

Basically, in however you can do it, you need to tell her - "50% of the population is female.  I do not live or work in a male-only environment.  I cannot block myself from ever seeing or even talking to another human being who may or may not be female.  What I CAN do, is love and respect YOU, come home to YOU, and you have to LEARN to trust that I respect you, our relationship, and will not break faith with you by cheating.  Cheating is not being a room with someone who is female.  Cheating is not making eye contact.  Cheating is not saying, "excuse me, hello, may I use that machine after you... .etc."  

She may not like this begin said, and you may even face some extinction bursts (ramped up behaviour as a boundary is newly enforeced, BUT can be the last hurrah before the boundary is grudgingly accepted) but you can't continue as you are.

Read a lot in the Lessons.  Set some small goals for yourself, let yourself feel good when you reach one - whether it's letting yourself not feel bad if she is feeling insecure today, validating her feelings without owning them as your fault, whatever.  You work on you, and sometimes the pwBPD get helped in the process.

[jrharvey]

One thing you can do is refuse to own her emotions.  She's allowed to be upset.

I have accepted this. I realize this now. I don't take ownership of her feelings. Its more about the fact that I feel wronged. Maybe this is narcissistic thinking but I feel like I deserve to be loved. I deserve to be in a relationship where someone is willing to care for me the way I care for them. I deserve to be talked to like a person and not be talked down to. I deserve to be talked to with respect the way I talk to people with respect. I deserve to be with someone who supports me.

So with this mindset and her completely removing all these things I feel like I deserve this completely makes me lose it. The thoughts flood my mind. I deserve this and I deserve that. Why are you just sitting here dealing with that? Why does she act this way? Does she really love you? If she loved you would she treat you this way? So I just keep thinking all these things and I blow up.

Im starting to have BPD thoughts and actions. Ive never been like this before. Maybe its PTSD I don't know but Im starting to get triggered and the fear and crazy thoughts make me act out. I was practicing mindfulness which is great for controlling thoughts and worries when there is not a crisis but isn't actually that helpful when IN THE MOMENT you are in a crisis. Your instincts take over. How can you change your instincts and subconscious reactions? Hypnosis maybe?

I start thinking I need to do something. I think if I don't do something she will never do anything. It will just go on and on and nothing will get solved. Its not like we can just wait it out and she will be fine. maybe the next day it will be the same. Maybe we will spends days in the same house not talking to each other. maybe weeks. Maybe she will blow up on me for not talking to her and saying I AM giving her the silent treatment. Who knows. I try to talk and work things out. Usually this just makes things worse.

Its actually worse when we have a heated discussion and she leaves. Even though in my mind I know this is for the best I just cant seem to tell myself it will be ok because I truly cant rationalize a positive outcome. In that moment I see no light. I don't tell myself... .It will be ok tomorrow because I honestly don't know if it will be. I need to do something and it needs to be now. I think that if she could just understand my side of the story she would get it. She would magically just get it. I know this puts me in a position to JADE. But that just causes more trouble. Somehow I am still in this mindset that we can just talk it out and make it better. Sometimes that works when we are both calm but not when we are emotional.

[motherhen]

While you may deserve to be treated with respect among other basic "rights", no one person *owes* you those things. Reframing it, you might change the script in your head to reflect the fact that you have the right to choose this relationship or to move onto another that might be closer to what you feel you deserve. No person is ever going to be 100% what you think you deserve, but with BPD you kind of have to accept that it's probably not even going to come close to evening out 50/50 and decide if you can work with that. What you are asking is simply more than a BPD has the emotional resources to give. You are still in the relationship, there must be a reason you feel it is worth continuing to invest in.

Your instincts will dictate how you respond unless you are intentional about making a change. You are not helpless. You can make a different choice here. There are many skills you can practice out of the moment so you know how to use them in the moment. EFT tapping is one. DBT heavily focuses on detaching and providing some sensory input that allows you to use the Wise Mind. One thing that is strong sensory input is to hold ice cubes while having unpleasant thoughts. Something to give your brain different input so that it doesn't fly off the handle on you. Stop, breathe and talk yourself down. Practice. Look up some breathing exercises on YouTube and practice them. Look up EFT and EMDR techniques. Rewrite the scripts in your head to reflect that you have a choice and you can remain calm. It's a lot of work, but nowhere near the work that living in this sort of emotional chaos is.