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Author Topic: One positive acknowledgement  (Read 378 times)
BowlOfPetunias
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« on: August 22, 2016, 01:25:29 PM »

Background:  Early in our relationship, I did not set boundaries and let my wife (then girlfriend) take advantage of me.  I was in grad school working on my dissertation and therefore had "free time" (I should have been working on my dissertation!) to run errands for her.  Lots of errands.  Things she could and should have done for herself.

One habit that has remained over the years is that she e-mails me something to print for her instead of printing it herself.  On Saturday, I had already printed something she sent the night before and I was trying to get out of the door.  She discovered a typo, changed the document, and then verbally asked me to print it.  Admittedly, I did make a sarcastic remark about learning how to print it herself.  But I explained that it felt like she does this to fill an emotional need rather than because she needs me to do it.  She objected, but that night she said that she could see how it was feeding an emotional need but, "so what" and why did it bother me so much?  I explained that by the time she composes an e-mail message and sends it to me she could have already connected to the printer and hit "print."  She seemed to accept this.  Hopefully it will make a difference.
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schwing
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2016, 01:50:10 PM »

Hi BowlofPetunias,

Early in our relationship, I did not set boundaries and let my wife (then girlfriend) take advantage of me. 

I wonder if people with BPD (pwBPD) gravitate towards those of us with weak or no boundaries. In any case, I think it was for this reason you were preferred over others.

But I explained that it felt like she does this to fill an emotional need rather than because she needs me to do it.  She objected, but that night she said that she could see how it was feeding an emotional need but, "so what" and why did it bother me so much?  I explained that by the time she composes an e-mail message and sends it to me she could have already connected to the printer and hit "print."  She seemed to accept this.  Hopefully it will make a difference.

I think this behavior falls in the same category as the one described in another thread re: "Questions."

These small requests can be seen as tests. Perhaps your BPDwife gives you these small tests in order to make certain that you still love her, that you will not abandon her.

Because they lack object constancy, it is like pwBPD have difficulty "remembering" that we love them, which is quality non disordered people take for granted when an attachment has formed and reinforced over time.  For pwBPD, when were are not around, they have to deal with separation anxiety which compounds with other disordered feelings.

Best wishes,

Schwing
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ArleighBurke
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 08:56:20 PM »

This is also a common FEMALE trait... .

Little requests are often subconscious tests. There's a loyalty test ("does he still love me" and a fitness test ("is he still a man fit enough to protect me". They issue both at various times.

A fitness test is often constructed to see how emotionally strong or self confident you are. Asking you to do something for her that she is quite capable of doing COULD be a fitness test - she actually WANTS you to assert yourself and say "no." (politely of course). This demonstates that you are self-confident, have good boundaries and have self-respect.

A loyalty test is for your love. A demonstration that she means enough to you and you'll stay with her.

Often deciding which is which is difficult... .But I think anything that she asks that she can do herself is probably a fitness test. Saying no to a fitness test should result in her feeling MORE trusting of you, and having MORE respect for you (despite what she says).

But for BPD women, they get conflicted. They WANT a closeness, an emotional bond, but their definition of it is actually enmeshment. They want to be able to control your emotions and your actions, that makes them feel safe and "loved" - but only on the surface. Underneath, their core cannot respect you, because you are a weak person. To be respected, you need to be somewhat independant and stable - but this doesn't "feel" like love to them - it feels like distance and abandonment. So they have the constant battle.

So a fitness test from a BPD female needs to be interpreted and handled as a loyalty test. Reframe "print this for me" (a fitness test) as "I want to know you will look after me" (a loyalty test). Your answer is still "no" to printing, but your delivery is different. Validate her request. "I know that you need that document printed today and that's important to you. And I *could* do it for you. But I'm not going to. I know that you can print it yourself - you've done it in the past. So how about you try when I'm out, and if you need help I will help when I get back - which gives a lot of time before the deadline." or "So how about you try now, and I'll help if you need it" (making sure you force her to do it herself - do NOT talk her through the process - only if she actually doesn't know it).

This way you are showing self-respect by not doing something she can do (and valueing your own time), but at the same time you are showing you support her, and will be with her. You also reinforce that she is a capable person.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2016, 12:59:21 AM »


They WANT a closeness, an emotional bond, but their definition of it is actually enmeshment. They want to be able to control your emotions and your actions, that makes them feel safe and "loved" - but only on the surface. Underneath, their core cannot respect you, because you are a weak person. To be respected, you need to be somewhat independant and stable - but this doesn't "feel" like love to them - it feels like distance and abandonment. So they have the constant battle.


Omg, thank you for this gem. Makes so much sense. Explains all the pushing and pulling. Thought Finally, there's order to this disorder! Most of the time the push/pull seems to come out of nowhere with no logical reason for it. Alas, there it is. I wonder if they realize this constant battle they go thru is ours, too? It's like holding on for dear life in a tornado that never passes - it keeps whipping back around just when you think the storm is over. Picks up speed, dissolves into thin air, whips back into a funnel. Over and over. We can't get too close, can't get too distant, and constantly have to re-center ourselves. Weathering these storms can be exhausting.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2016, 06:38:41 AM »

Not all females  Smiling (click to insert in post)


This is a great explanation though. My mother (BPD) does this a lot- asks us to do little things that she could do ( or learn to do) for herself as a test of our love- not just from my father but us kids, and later, tried this on my kids when they were old enough to do things for her.


Growing up in my FOO, she was the only one "allowed" to do this. If any of us kids asked her to do things for us, she would be angry. Asking our father for things was sometimes OK, sometimes not. So I grew up with the idea that this kind of thing was some sort of taboo.

I got the same feeling about my H with some things. There were things he could easily do for himself, but when I did them, it meant some sort of love/approval to him. Not doing them was considered rejection. A big one was food. He can make a sandwich, but it felt better to him when I did it. The inverse was that he felt a sense of rejection if I didn't. If any of you guys are thinking what's wrong with a wife making a meal- I would say nothing is wrong with that if the wife is willing or that is the agreed upon arrangement in the relationship. The part that is wrong is that the reason I did it after a while was fear and co-dependency. I would fix food because I was afraid that if I didn't, he would get angry- rage or do the silent treatment. After a while, the "love" in the gesture was replaced by fear and resentment.

Ironically, while our partners want these gestures from us to "show our love", this pattern doesn't lead to loving feelings- but resentment. Giving from the heart involves a choice to do so. We still have a choice, but we know the result of saying "no". Whether it is printing something, making  a sandwich- that's a lot easier than dealing with yelling or the ST. I would also choose to do these things when the kids were little, to avoid putting them through seeing their parents argue.

One of the first things our MC said ( after declaring I was co-dependent ) was to stop cooking meals out of fear. I was terrified to not cook, yet meals were a resented duty at that point. She wanted me to change that pattern. I still cook, but if there is a meeting at night, or some activity with the kids, then my H can fend for himself. He doesn't like it, but that was his task to manage.

The problem with printing for your wife, is that, it is a co-dependent gesture. It is emotional caretaking. She attaches meaning to it, and you do it, not just out of love but also to manage a possible scene if you say no. These acts can lead to resentment on your part in the relationship.
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ArleighBurke
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2016, 08:22:59 PM »

Notwendy: what you are saying sounds more like the 5 love languages. I think that's different to the loyalty/fitness testing.

The 5 love languages are the 5 main ways that people (men and women) "feel" love. I think they are Physical Touch, Words of Affection, Acts of Service, Quality Time and Gifts.

If your H wants you to make a sandwich, he may have "acts of service" as his love language.

It is possible that BowlOfPetunias's wife is asking him to print stuff because this is her love language (acts of service), but I don't think so in this case - to me it's more a fitness test.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 06:41:05 AM »

Possibly a fitness test, but to be honest, that idea sounds totally foreign to me- it isn't something I did when dating.

I agree, service- especially cooking, is an act of love to my H, a love language. I did plenty of it, and still do. In fact, I enjoy cooking.

Where it became dysfunctional wasn't that it was a love language, but in the interpretation of when I didn't cook. To my H, it meant rejection- then a deep rejection that could lead to an evening of silent treatment or anger.  To me, that wasn't an intentional rejection. We both had busy careers when we were first married and some times I didn't get home until later. Then, kids came along, and if a child had activities or was not feeling well, then I was not able to cook dinner. Asking him to cook, or bring in something would lead to a rage.

In fact, he would even go get take out dinner for himself and not bring anything back for any of us. If I dared ask him, he would get angry.

Being co-dependent and afraid of his anger, I would be sure to cook all the time. It didn't come from a place love. It came from fear and resentment.

It may be a fitness test for Petunias, and for a while, he may not have minded, but if he does mind now, and he's doing it with resentment and some fear of her reaction, then it becomes a co-dependent pattern. I had to learn to decide to say no to cooking when I am not able to be home to do it. My H has learned to deal with his reaction to that. I still cook most of the time- as I am the mom/cook in the family, but I still struggle with fear when I don't because of that pattern.

My H, to this day, will use the grill, but otherwise doesn't cook a thing for himself. Doesn't want to learn or take part in it either. I have also done all the dishes, as asking him to do that would lead to rages. I actually like my own cooking and since I cook for a family, I just cook for all of us most of the time.
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