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Author Topic: I can use some reflective input  (Read 447 times)
waitingwife
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« on: August 25, 2016, 04:49:15 PM »

As you all know I am working towards my codependent issues which involves some amount of control.
I recently visited my parents with D5 in another country and udBPDH's parents also live close to my parents. So my H doesn't expect me to go live with his folks as he accepts they're a dysfunctional family. Initially before travelling, I had told him that I don't plan to even telling them I am visiting so that there is no political issue of them wanting to spend time with my D5(their grandchild). Closer to the trip, H asked me whether he should tell his parents about my visit and I introspected within and after 2 days told him that he should tell them. The reason I said that is because after some insight on my part, I told him it doesn't align with my personality to hide something so big as an international visit and why should I fear what they will think/feel. So I told him that I'll do my best to visit them and truly did. My D5 hates to go visit them as they're very cold and disrespectful of us. However I felt like forgiving is more important and I cannot contain any more resentment within. H never comes to visit with us as if we all go and end up living with my parents, there is a huge drama. Now that I am back, he said I am considering visiting my parents for 2 weeks in winter. I had a conversation with him earlier in Spring and said you should visit your folks whenever you like and I'll be fine.
My question is, I want to be fine because he never stops me from visiting my folks but I have this wierd feeling within. How come his parents & divorced sister are never held accountable for their disrespectful behavior. They have never been there for us and don't love our D5 who we both love to death and yet how he is able to put this behind him and go visit them. He is doing a lot of mindfulness and after many years wanting to forgive them... He says they're ageing parents and a sister that he has left. The parent's mortality scares him. After my visit, I didn't get into much details about how his dad gave us the cold shoulder coz it usually dysregulates him. I don't know what I am seeking here... .When he told me yesterday morning all of a sudden that he wants to visit, I said okay but throughout the day, I felt like I was blocking out my feelings and he could tell that. Like there was tension between us. I want to make this right and want to let him have this his way just like I have it my way. I don't want him to punish his parents but I feel bad when they get away with all their actions. We send them money every month so the understanding and forgiving keeps happening from our end.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2016, 05:15:04 PM »

They are his parents, and when it all comes down to it, it is about your H, not them. He has to live with his own conscience. These family patterns were there for a long time, and he knows that his parents, especially if they are aging, are not going to change.

This does not mean accepting bad behavior. However, it is up to him to keep that boundary. One way to do this is to keep visits relatively short, so long as they are not actively harming your child. Maybe he would rather do this than not see them at all.

My mother has BPD and she can be very difficult. I don't think anyone would blame me if I didn't visit her, and for some people, this is the right choice for them. However I don't feel right not being in touch with her. I do it because of me, not her. One way I manage is to keep visits short and lighthearted so as not to get into long dramas.

Part of this may be his ethics, his culture- honor parents. But the visits are probably more about his wishes than them.

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waverider
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2016, 06:39:46 PM »

As per Wendys advice, short non involved visits. This avoids all the catastophizing that goes with avoidance. It just fuels blaming and finger pointing.

You H can't change his family so he has no option but to accept them or do without a family. If he knows you disapprove of them it will make him sensitive to criticism, as thee is nothing he can do about it.
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waitingwife
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2016, 11:04:04 PM »

Yeah, I totally understand how he is doung right by his conscience and thats why I feel bad to not understand his reasons & be all gung ho about his visit. This evening we were both just having beer & talking. So he asked me- what do you think about my visit to parents & sister. I said to him that I'd like to share with him my honest feeling and told him all about how i felt. I added that I do understand that he's not their extension and so I'm trying to depersonalize and accept this. I also told him that I also understand that there is no solution to this and he should go if this trip of 2 weeks will make him happy. I validated by saying I really want to be there & support your decision just you always do to me. He has been supportive in most of my decisions and desires.
I felt like we ended on a good note but I'll inow for sure only tomorrow!
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waitingwife
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2016, 07:04:53 AM »

His first reply was I'm not even sure bur I am considering to go. I said you don't have to worry about our D5 and I'll be totally fine caring for her & the house while henis away.
On another note, my brother's wife is recently going through a very bipolar mania and she has had an onset of symptoms quite late. It was very subtle all these years but none of us recognized it. She was like my best friend and I have confided in her a lot. The whole world is seeing her strange behaviour and sympathizing with my brother however when my SILs topic comes up, my H becomes very neutral or even says the fault is of both your brother & sil. She is not a bad person, your brother needs to step up. He is partly right and my brother has laziness traits and cannot practice tough love, he lacks firmness and I told him that. But SIL is having grandeur delusions and hallucinations. I asked him in our last nights conversation if me venting about my SIL triggers unwanted emotions for him? His divorced sister is undiagnosed bipolar too. He has been there & done that. They fall in & out of communication since the last 10 years. However he refused that my venting to him doesn't trigger him and that now he is a changed person who can handle his emotions.
I foresee some dysregulation in the coming months... .H has had a history of starting to slowly dysregulate around fall and it peaks during thr winter months. What can I do other than caring for myself to handle this better? Last year I planned trips with D5 and was quite happy to connect with my old childhood friend and take short vacations with D5.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2016, 07:08:11 AM »

Keep in mind that dysfunctional families have their own way of making things work- balance- between family members. They can also be enmeshed. We might notice it from the outside, but for a family member, it can feel normal. These are the only parents they know- since birth. You may be more upset about your in laws behaviors than your H is- he is used to them.

Family visits have been in general, stressful. People tend to revert back to familiar family patterns- as this is the way they are most used to behaving- when around family. They may not even be aware of it.

Being around my family takes a lot of my own concentration, to deal with that dysfunction. My H notices that I am preoccupied, not at my best, and this triggers him. I have found that I do better if I take some time to myself, between visiting my family and then coming home- it could be getting a cup of coffee, taking a walk, just some time to get centered again.

I find it irritating to be with my H visiting family. I can see their dynamics, but he doesn't. He gets triggered by them, and often took it out on me. I think it is fine for him to visit his family- I think it is a good quality in him that he is concerned about his parents. However, I have to stay aware of my reactions to their family dynamics when I am there.

In enmeshed families, any criticism can be seen as a personal one. So, my H could say something critical about his family, but if I say it- it can be seen as a personal insult. My mother can criticize her relatives, but gets upset if I do. I have found it better to not speak of my H's family. It's his family. It may be better for you to not speak of your H's family and let him deal with their behavior.

The bottom line for me? Self care. If I am stressed, the visits are not likely to go as well. This may mean I have to go in the other room to get a cup of coffee, or something to get myself centered, so that I am not reactive to  family drama. Our families are who they are, and if we want to visit them, we need to take care of our own emotions and boundaries.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2016, 07:11:01 AM »

WW- self care is key. You can not do anything about your SIL's mental illness or your H's moods. The issues between your brother and SIL have nothing to do with you.

If taking trips with your child, doing things you enjoy, taking even short breaks helps you during these times, then that's a good thing to do.
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waitingwife
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2016, 03:29:51 PM »

You are all the best sounding board I can use. UdBPDH is very much in tune with my emotions, he can sense it just like I can sense his emotions and we have been married for 13 years so it's bound to happen. I'm trying to change that a little coz in codependency we tend to foresee a little too much so as to not rock the boat. Thats why I asked him very lovingly yesterday if me talking about the issues I have with SIL triggers his unwanted memories about his sister(coz his sister is exactly like my other sil) and he had a nice r/s with his sister growing up. They were in a perfectly dysfunctional setup as the parents were verbally abusive all the time. So in my mind, I hold them responsible for all the dysfunction that has spilled over into my familu due to H's uBPD and that triggers the wierd feelings ablut him going. Maybe in my subconscious, I feel a sense of abandonment towards me when he goes to visit his parents. For the last 12 years, we have had circular arguments and fights when it came to this topic but with some mindfulness, I am able to understand the situation from his perspective and depersonalize to an extent. I'd like to depersonalize to a much better extent and I told him last night that last year when he visited, I felt even more strongly. It's much lesser now so I'm hopefully on the right path.
I have to accept that I know the right thing for him to do is visit his parents and he hates to visit them with me & D5 together so he has made it clear that he'd like to visit them alone. He has honestly told me the reason is because this is not a pleasure trip and they treat us all badly so of he goes alone then he is the only one who has to bear it. So I am working up to rise above the situation and forgive them everytime this visit comes up.
Thanks for offering your perspectives, it is super helpful.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2016, 04:39:50 PM »

I can relate to this as I have dealt with being codependent- but sometimes people's wishes are not about us. Although you are bothered by your Hs wishes to visit alone, he's clear that he prefers it that way- it may have nothing to do with you. Maybe his parents' behavior upsets him and he'd rather deal with that on his own.

I much prefer visiting my family when I don't feel I need to be good company to anyone else. Sure they wanted to see their grandkids too, but having my H along changes the dynamics. Not a bad change but any change can be another challenge. I also prefer he see his family on his own. I see them too- but not as often ( they aren't rude to me like your in laws are- I don't think I'd go if they were ). It's just easier on us to do it this way.
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waitingwife
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2016, 05:37:49 PM »

I finally feel good to vent out how I feel whereas for so many years I'd bottle up these feelings and they'd turn into resentment and make forgiveness impossible.
His parents are not directly rude with me but my FIL always gives us the silent treatment when I visit them for lunch(literally 1.5 hours) with D5. I was visiting my parents for 7 weeks and in thise 7 weeks, I visited my in-laws only 2 times- each for a meal lasting for not more than 2 hours. I haven't asked my fil or mil why is he giving us the ST coz I didn't want to be the only one dealing with all the offloading of emotions when H was not with me. So I kept the visit super short and winged it. I visited them twice for my and only my conscience. I can understand how they're born like that and their dysfunctional family isn't going anywhere... .But they're human and want to atleast see their grandchild coz we live in a far away country... A different continent altogether (thank goodness for that).
Last year was the first time my H visited them alone and after he was done, the new setup made sense and I have my freedom of visitng my parents so thst my D5 can have atleast one set of grandparents showering love on her coz we only meet once a year due to the geographical distance.
I'm coming to peace more and more with his decision of wanting to go alone... It's only 2 weeks and life moves on... .
Thanks for being there
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waitingwife
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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2016, 04:27:05 PM »

So uBPDH called his parents to ask them if they'll be available in winter or if they have plans? They said they'll be available however he didn't tell him that he plans to visit them. I asked him and he said I want to be sure in my head first before I can tell them. I can tell he is going mainly to see his divorced sister coz he grew up really closely together with her. Now she is mentally sick and has major mood swinns, etc so she refused to talk with him. I could tell that hurt my H but it was amazing to see that understanding & forgiveness for her in his eyes. He didn't have to say a thing but I could see he regulated his big emotion versus earlier it would really upset him. So then I told him he should really book his vacation time and go ahead & book tickets to go visit his family! He said yeah, I'll do it coz after all I have some family commitments towards my sister. I responded saying absolutely you do and you should go!
So heres the thing about a bit of what happened in the past: H along with mil was in favor of remarrying his sister coz divorce is kinda shunned in the culture we were raised which I completely disagree. So 6 years ago, he had tried to set his sister up for starting to consider remarrying. I had put my foot down and said I am totally against it coz she has a mental issue and without treating it, you all would be pushing her down another valley by marrying her. Back then, I didn't know about BPD but I had sensed this all coming and seen her rage and she is really a very difficult person to live with! So I had told H that I am totally okay with her remarrying if she brings it up and wants to do it on her own accord but am against the coaxing & convincing her coz all her life she has been blame shifting so this would have been on us.
Now fast forward, H realizes and fully understands that it was a great thing that he didn't push it and atleast she is better off alone living with his parents. But he feels bad for her and thinks about her life after his parents are gone and then emotions run wild.
The only problem I have is nobody tells her that she is mentally ill and needs to treat herself to be able to keep a job or relationships. They all only keep talking about her being such a bright girl growing up and blame a failed marriage to her depression. It feels sad and at the same time angry to see drama crop up when we need a family for support in times of our need.
I have had a bit of a rough day where I recieved the news of 2 deaths(distant relatives) in my family so I guess my cup is half full too!
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