Dramatic mood swings

[Cmjo]

I want to understand what is happening when the mood swing by a person suffering from BPD is so dramatic and can potentially last for days.

We had an idyliic three day break by the coast, my BPDh and I, our children D14 and S12. I mea wonderful, good food sun, perfect sea, culture, history, scenery, laughter and relaxation. It was really such a perfect holiday... .until.

Occasionally BPDh will descend into ranting about our teenagers use of mobile phones. It was near the end of the holiday and we were talking about leaving the beach early to start the long drive home. The mobile phone chat started, I said jokingly this morning at breakfast BPDh had his phone in one hand and Ipad in the other. That was the trigger, he said why did I always criticize him. He went quiet and muttered to himself. I said sorry it was only lighthearted banter, he said ok thanks. But as we left the beach he started the deliberate incredibky slow walking staring into space behind us, again I said niceky could you walk just a teeny bit faster so we can dtay together, he said as usual noone was showing him any respect, we should have waited for him. Then two hours while I drove (he stared out the side window). I went to do the shopping and prepared dinner when we got back. He came to dinner, ate silently, then left the room saying good night.

It is astounding how little he can care for our feelings, or care how the holiday ended, or let me take over looking after the whole family to protect the children from his mood. We were all dejected. What exactly is going through his head. Today he will pretend nothing happened. If I try to talk about it he will rant about how cruel we all are to him.

Can with this illness they ever actually describe what is going on in their head or is there too much shame?

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[ArleighBurke]

Imagine your husband was a spoilt 6yr old.

can they ever actually describe what is going on in their head?

Does this question still make sense?

A BPD is an emotional child. They are self centered, self absorbed and 100% right.

That will probably never change.

[enlighten me]

Whilst I agree that a lot of BPD behaviour is down to emotional imaturity in this case I would like to add something I have observed from my two uBPD exs.

Stability destabilises them.

I have never had a holiday that didnt end in an incident. When things where ticking along nicely a new drama was found or created. For me its as if they where addicted to drama. It was like once they had their hit of drama they could function again.

I dont know whether it is something psycological or a physical rebalancing of chemicals in the brain. Whatever it is I cannot think of a period of more than a few days post idolisation phase that they could go drama free.

[schwing]

Hi Cmjo,

I want to understand what is happening when the mood swing by a person suffering from BPD is so dramatic and can potentially last for days.

We had an idyliic three day break by the coast, my BPDh and I, our children D14 and S12. I mea wonderful, good food sun, perfect sea, culture, history, scenery, laughter and relaxation. It was really such a perfect holiday... .until.

In my experience, for people with BPD (pwBPD), occasions when they feel close, intimate and like a family, are lightning rods for their disordered feelings.  So occasions like birthdays, holidays, "family" days are days that you need to be careful and expect dramatic mood swings.

Because you had an "idyllic three day break" with your family, this "perfect holiday" became for your husband, a trigger. Maybe he started to blame himself (shame?) for feeling badly when everyone else is happy.

Occasionally BPDh will descend into ranting about our teenagers use of mobile phones. It was near the end of the holiday and we were talking about leaving the beach early to start the long drive home. The mobile phone chat started, I said jokingly this morning at breakfast BPDh had his phone in one hand and Ipad in the other. That was the trigger, he said why did I always criticize him.

I don't think your banter was really criticism. But for him to react to you as if you criticized him helps him relieve some of his internal distress. It is better for him to blame you than for him to blame himself.

He went quiet and muttered to himself. I said sorry it was only lighthearted banter, he said ok thanks. But as we left the beach he started the deliberate incredibky slow walking staring into space behind us, again I said niceky could you walk just a teeny bit faster so we can dtay together, he said as usual noone was showing him any respect, we should have waited for him. Then two hours while I drove (he stared out the side window). I went to do the shopping and prepared dinner when we got back. He came to dinner, ate silently, then left the room saying good night.

If you concern that for pwBPD, if their feelings of closeness and intimacy are triggers for their disordered feelings; one way for them to manage their disordered feelings is to establish distance. He put more space between himself and his family as a way to manage his own disordered feelings.

It is astounding how little he can care for our feelings, or care how the holiday ended, or let me take over looking after the whole family to protect the children from his mood. We were all dejected. What exactly is going through his head.

I believe that for pwBPD, it is nearly impossible for them to put the feelings (and interests) of other people ahead of their own feelings. And what makes this situation more difficult is that his feelings are not intuitively available to you, because you are not disordered.

Today he will pretend nothing happened. If I try to talk about it he will rant about how cruel we all are to him.

He would probably rant about how cruel you are to him because he needs to believe that he is not sick. And the only way for him to justify his disordered feelings is to believe that you are all being cruel to him. Why else would he be possibly dealing with this persistent fear that his family would abandon him?

Can with this illness they ever actually describe what is going on in their head or is there too much shame?

If you believe someone is going to abandon you, then it also means that you are not likely to trust them. Maybe he understands what is going on in his head. Maybe not. But if he does understand, telling you what he is thinking is like showing you his cards making him even more vulnerable... .which consequentially triggers more of his disordered feelings.

I hope some of this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[schwing]

Stability destabilises them.

I don't think this sounds right. Try changing your routines often and see what happens.

"Stability" is necessary to maintain some semblance of peace. What you might consider is pairing stability with formality and distance. Be predictable, but also be formal and distant.  Try this out.

I have never had a holiday that didnt end in an incident. When things where ticking along nicely a new drama was found or created. For me its as if they where addicted to drama. It was like once they had their hit of drama they could function again.

Plan your holidays in anticipation of drama. This is why just about all of my siblings down play our birthdays and "special" occasions, because we all (unconsciously) anticipate our uBPD mother to act out on these occasions.  I still spend special occasions with my uBPDmother and consider it a "BPD tax" which I pay in order to maintain connections with all the other members of my family.

I dont know whether it is something psycological or a physical rebalancing of chemicals in the brain. Whatever it is I cannot think of a period of more than a few days post idolisation phase that they could go drama free.

I believe the trick is to avoid or limit the periods of "idealization."  Or else make someone else the focus of their idealizing. Because if they put you on a pedestal, then they're going to knock you down.

[enlighten me]

Sorry schwing if you disagree but both my uBPD exs couldnt do stable day to day routine without something happening. No matter how I planned holidays my ex wife would always come down with something and be bed ridden for most of it. My exgf would always find something to blame me for.

I agree they have a comfort zone so holidays which take them out of it will cause them stress. I agree that being a stable influence is a good thing I just dont think my exs could stay stable for any length of time without some drama happening.

[Jessica84]

I think enlightenme makes a good point. There does seem to be some kind of "fix" in finding or creating drama when things are too smooth and peaceful. At least for my BPDbf.  Stability is scary and foreign to him. He can't stand it. Don't know if it's a fear of losing it all when things are too good, or what. But tossing a drama grenade seems to calm him.

It's a matter of whether I choose to take the bait. And sometimes I do... .on purpose.
I know that's counter to all the advice I've ever been given here, but... .it works like magic for me. I noticed our WORST times have always been followed by our BEST times. So now when we're having too wonderful a time together (esp. on vacations), I know he'll flip the switch at some point! So... .I let him have light "hits" of drama along the way (but ones that don't actually trigger me). It's controlled chaos I guess. Like if he makes an issue of my driving... .I'll let myself get just worked up enough to bother him, which therefore soothes him. It's weird how that works.  If I lose all control, all bets are off. But if I leave a little space for him to create some conflict, then validate him, he can regulate his emotions quicker and we can get on down the road to bliss. I just had to learn to accept this. I can't avoid every trigger anyway. So why not let him have a few? Especially if it spares a full-blown dysregulation later.

[Cmjo]

Its very hard to look at a 50 year old man and see inside imagining his brain to be that of a child. Especially when the language that comes out is so twisted and violent. I know emotional immaturity is behind the deregulation, but it doesnt make it less unbearable to watch.

Trying to remember he is a child and does not have logic or rationality can exlain a tantrum (as with children we parents often also try to justify, oh they must be over-tired, must be hungry) and we try to teach them better behaviour, gradually they learn, if they behave badly for long enough they get punished, temper tantrums lessen as they grow up.

The BPD does not grow up, or learn from its actions. Mine today was very hostile this morning, ranting about how I had been teaching the children to hate him for 15 years (still on about the mobile phone comment), hiw I walk down the street and hate pours out of me. Yes this evening a complete turnaround again, meek and mild and sort of forlorn and sorry for himself face. Yes of course no offer to discuss what happened or apologise, and I know better than to mention it because it will be just my vivid imagination.

I actually believe it is often the opposite of stability which is a trigger, for him going to a new place or being away from home for a few days sends him on edge. He is better with stability, the weeks he is at work our routine works well.

[livednlearned]

I actually believe it is often the opposite of stability which is a trigger, for him going to a new place or being away from home for a few days sends him on edge. He is better with stability, the weeks he is at work our routine works well.

This rings true for me as well. Structure and routine reduces anxiety and stress, though it is alas not a cure for the emotional dysregulations caused by triggers and whatnot. Trying to keep up with all the appropriate responses to stimuli can be very taxing and it is inevitable that something will blow.

The BPD does not grow up, or learn from its actions. Mine today was very hostile this morning, ranting about how I had been teaching the children to hate him for 15 years (still on about the mobile phone comment), hiw I walk down the street and hate pours out of me. Yes this evening a complete turnaround again, meek and mild and sort of forlorn and sorry for himself face. Yes of course no offer to discuss what happened or apologise, and I know better than to mention it because it will be just my vivid imagination.

In some therapies, pwBPD go through a process of integrating different representations of their inner selves. Not dissociative identity disorder stuff (not exactly multiple personalities, for example), more like different selves they have used. Often, there is a very young child representation among the others. Schema therapy labels them the lonely child, detached protector, etc. Do you think maybe you are seeing manifestations of these roles?

It makes sense to me. Sometimes I see a competent person, sometimes the emotional reactions are more in line with what a toddler might feel, or how a very young child might react.

[Jessica84]

The weeks of stability and routine may keep him grounded, where new scenery causes him stress. Sad he can't enjoy a nice getaway with his family.

What do you say when accused of teaching the children to hate him? Can you validate his feelings without agreeing with him?

[waverider]

Stability destabilises them.

I don't think this sounds right. Try changing your routines often and see what happens.

"Stability" is necessary to maintain some semblance of peace. What you might consider is pairing stability with formality and distance. Be predictable, but also be formal and distant.  Try this out.

A "stabilty" that sees them outside of their set pattern of behavior/environment is eventually perceived as loss of control. It suffocates them, especially if they are trying hard to fit in (goes well for a while), which adds stress. Their reaction is to grab back some control/power balance by throwing a spanner in the works

Stability or consistency within their normal environment settles them, hence the reason consistent application of boundaries is eventually accepted and beneficial

[Cmjo]

What do you say when accused of teaching the children to hate him? Can you validate his feelings without agreeing with him?

Not very good at validating when he gets this bad. Its beyond validating I think. Ive learnt not to JADE but thats about it. I say thats not true, but soon after will walk away. I find it so absurd, illogical, bizarre. When he is talking like this its impossible to get a word in anyway, he will talk over me. Then if I do walk away he will shout after me, that I am escaping again.

Not only can I not validate this, I also cannot bounce back and act caring and loving, I sulk too. I dont want him to manipulate me and get away with it. I withdraw and act cold. Have no idea what I should do, am so conflicted. I hate having to put up with this behaviour.

[ArleighBurke]

I try to stay upbeat and loving to my wife after she dysregulates - but it is very hard.

I often feel so low, so tired, so "here-we-go-again". I just want to remove her from my life. But that's me holding onto the idea that life SHOULD be better, that my wife SHOULD be better. That's not Radical Acceptance. I'm not sure how to get to that acceptance.

[livednlearned]

Not only can I not validate this, I also cannot bounce back and act caring and loving, I sulk too. I dont want him to manipulate me and get away with it. I withdraw and act cold. Have no idea what I should do, am so conflicted. I hate having to put up with this behaviour.

It is hard to mourn the reality that pwBPD hurt the people they love. Your feelings are important, especially in a relationship with someone with emotional dysregulation. The key is to make sure you have a way to tend to those hurts, because often they won't be with your pwBPD.

If it helps, his methods are about trying to cope with intense feelings. We all manipulate to some extent, though for pwBPD, it is more about trying to regain footing, to collect and stabilize themselves. They manipulate because they lack the skills to manage the intense dysregulation and we are collateral damage.

You need time to regroup, too. Validation is hard when we ourselves are emotionally aroused. Most of us return to baseline faster than a pwBPD, tho we still need time, especially when kids are involved.

Have you tried to let him know you are someone who needs a time-out to regain your thoughts? It might dissipate some of the compounding feelings you have when pulling away. "I feel hurt when someone gets upset with me" can alleviate your stress, and whether he acknowledges it or not, it may allay his abandonment stress, too.

[Cmjo]

We now live on separate floors of a big house so it is possible for me to withdraw to my own space to heal and take time out. Yes I have told him I need this. I dont have faith that he remembers I have said this, and maybe need to repeat it every time. In these days we have very little communication, we may only meet for half an hour at dinner time in the evening with the children, so nothing is discussed or aired. Just non contentious small talk, mainly consisting of him asking questions about our days, although he never volunteers anything about himself then he always says he is going to bed early.

This is a big improvement on five years ago when I would be so frustrated and often in tears berating him why why why? In September he has said he will go to dbt.

Radical acceptance of dramatic mood swings:

I do not own his behaviour
It is not personal
Its about him
I cant control it