Do we see everyone in our family as possibly disordered?

[Please help]

Hello,

  I have been doing inner child healing. It as triggered by my child's birth and seeing him not having grandparents ( my parents ) in his life. I relived the trauma of this but with some insight.

 I contacted my aunt. She is my mother's older sister by 12 years and she has 2 daughters 3-6 years older than I . My aunt is not in contact with my M and that is why I called. She takes care of my grandmother and lives in the house. It was pleasant. Of course the past came up but I was careful not to put my grandmother down and only told funny and crazy stories to help explain why I disappeared for 25 years. They had a good relationship with my grandmother. She gave them all money and let them stay with her off and on. Admittedly, I could immediately tell they were much closer to her than I was.

I did notice they were fiercely defense of her. They made a comment about her hating alcohol as my g father was a drunk. I said she occasionally drank a glass of red wine. They doubted me and had to run and ask their mom. I did not say it to put g mother down. I was simply making small talk. My aunt confirmed her having an occasionally glass. I sensed I was changing their perception of g mother  with such a small thing. As most of us non's here say "my red flags went up".

After brief reunion, older cousin told me she broke down and cried about the stories ( extremely censored) I told them. I said it was not told to gain sympathy but to explain my absence. They later somehow decided " they do not believe everything I say".  Supposedly, my grandmother would have rescued me if things were that bad.

My M had me at 16 and everyone told my G mother to abort me. She did not. When my M & I parted ways ( I was 8 or 9) she told everyone I was such a bad kid she did not want me around.

She went on to start a new family which ended up with a child dying from an OD and a bunch of addict kids who I do not know.


My cousins and my aunt smoke pot every day. Kids are in their 40's and aunt is 70. I mailed them each a gift from a trip overseas and have not heard anything. I can tell they do not like me now. Perception changed after a few months.

They were friends with my M even though my aunt and M lived together years ago and my M tried to stab her and aunt had to call police. My cousins saw their slightly older aunt ( my M) as really cool. They cleaned houses together and used to rob the homes of clothes, drugs and jewelry.

I see how quickly I was believed but then I am being painted black. My aunt and M supposedly hate each other. I racked my mind trying to find out if it was something I said or what.


My aunt had a similar life to my M. Married to drunk, divorced , dated coke dealers, married a guy who molested my older cousin, then married a much younger man who died. Very similar patterns to my M.

 My older cousin is very quick to anger and flipped out on my 2x over the phone while making small talk about nothing. Younger cousin has her childhood blocked out completely.

 I asked myself why do I have to come here for guidance after interacting with my family ( ha,ha). I also asked myself if it's healthy to think everyone in my family is extremely disordered and it's best to stay away. They do fit the pattern of BPD. My G mother certainly was BPD and anyone who even hints and my Gmother's flaw(s) needs to be exiled into the wilderness forever.

I am hurt that we cannot build a nice friendship but realize they probably think everything my M said about me was true. I was such a bad person and a liar that my M ( their aunt) may have been right all along.

 The only negative thing I said about their dear g mother was how my F as going to jail and I was possibly going into youth services (foster care)  as I had no one to live with. I asked my g mother to use her address and she said no.  " I would be better off in foster care". My cousins said it was because I was probably trying to do something illegal.

I regret contacting them and it's for the best if they do not contact me again. 

Can anyone share any other insights into how things could have quickly soured?

My M and her kids did rob G mothers house and they are getting ready to settle estate. My Aunt jokingly suggested my M sent me to contact them to get information or something. Could their suspicions be what caused them to hate me? Coincidentally , my M called my aunt a day after we all went to a party. I immediately thought they would think I am feeding my dear M info. Or, they could simply be so stoned this is all in my head and there are no issues. It's be almost 2 months.

These are not very educated or sophisticated people ( nor am I ).

Can anyone share any other insights into how things could have quickly soured?

Thanks in advance

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Please help:   

I'm sorry about the situation with your aunt and cousins.  It's natural to want to connect with and have family in your life.  Unfortunately, some of us find a time in our lives when we need to reach out to nonrelatives and create new family. 

Who did you live with, after you mom and you parted ways at 8 or 9? Was it your grandmother?

From your description of your aunt and cousins, I'm wondering why you would want your child to know them?  It sounds like they could be a bad influence for a child (drugs, stealing, etc.)

I see how quickly I was believed but then I am being painted black. My aunt and M supposedly hate each other. I racked my mind trying to find out if it was something I said or what. . . .

 My Aunt jokingly suggested my M sent me to contact them to get information or something. Could their suspicions be what caused them to hate me? Coincidentally , my M called my aunt a day after we all went to a party. I immediately thought they would think I am feeding my dear M info. Or, they could simply be so stoned this is all in my head and there are no issues. It's be almost 2 months.

I think you might be right.  Your Aunt's joke probably reflects what she is actually thinking.

Are there any relatives on the other side of the family that you might want to interact with? Some people connect with people in their community, perhaps through churches, work or community organizations.

[Notwendy]

Families can take on disorder, but each member is an individual and may or may not be disordered, but in context of the family, can have behaviors that work in that family but are dysfunctional otherwise.

If a family member is disordered, the other family members can take on certain behaviors that keep the family in balance. For instance if there is an alcoholic ( like your G father) other members can become enablers, co-dependents and possibly addicts/alcoholics.

The ways of relating can be intergenerational - in my ACA group, we have grandchildren of alcoholics. Their parents didn't drink, but they took on maladaptive roles- co-dependency and enabling and the pattern persisted into the next generation.

There can be unspoken rules - don't talk, don't feel, don't tell the family secrets and if one member tries to speak the truth, the others can rally to defend the person spoken about or silence the speaker.

I don't think it is true or destiny for every member of a family to be disordered, but it may take some work and motivation for some members who do not have a disorder to change patterns that are learned and familiar... .like you are doing.

[Please help]

Thanks for the feedback. My M moved in with her M (my G mother) when I was 8-9 and I briefly stayed with them ( a few months) but then moved in with my F who was staying with his friend that had a crack house. Oddly, my M used to occasionally stay with us as well. Maybe to get out of her parents house and get high for a few days. My F disappeared for a few months and I do not know where he went but I stayed with his friend who was nice to me. He dealt coke and burglarized buildings for a living. He often took me along on his heists. I watched him almost get murdered in a drug deal. I am grateful he let me stay with him and although the living situation was insane, I realize he was not my F and it was an act of kindness.

My cousins doubt these stories. My aunt does know this guy and can attest to how crazy he is. Think of Joe Pesci in Casino. I had an anxiety attack watching that movie where Pesci was robbing houses. It was very similar. One day I as in psycho therapy and I began talking about this guy and asked why I was so focused on him. It as pointed out he was a primary caretaker of me during my formative years.

Again, their G mother was so wonderful and would have rescued me.

 I can see the dynamics being played out with them. My aunt visits GM mother every day in nursing home. She said after talking with me she does not feel like visiting her M. I said she is doing the right thing by visiting. They are so quick to paint people white , then black. Isn't that a main symptom of BPD?

I told them I am glad they had a good relationship with GM. I did not due to how I was born. M was 16 F as 21. Everyone told GM to make my M abort me. She almost had my F arrested fro statutory rape. Instead, he married her only to divorce 9 years later. He spent 3 years of that time in prison.

I understand how my GM did not care for me much. I honestly dont blame her. My very presence was a painful reminder of her dysfunctional daughter who she would never confront about bad behavior. My M had kids with 4 different men.

 I as trying to be very open and objective and explained how I understand why I had the relationship ( lack thereof) with my GM.

As someone here said, in dysfunctional settings there is an unwritten code about calling out bad behavior. I clearly broke  that code and now they cannot talk to me.

It's my M's family not mine and I should write them off like I did 25 years ago. No hard feelings but simply no contact.

I do not need to hear that my M was not that bad and I was the problem. This is what they are eluding to. They are buying my M's narrative. My cousin told me she did ask my M where her kid's were ( me and my brother) and she said living with their father.

In closing, I tried. There is simply too much dysfunction and bad blood to have a relationship with them. I do notice the "cult-like" mindset they have.

[Fie]

Hello Pleasehelp 

Such a difficult childhood you must have had. Congrats on having turned out so well, and on the level of understanding of the dysfunction that you have reached 

Sometimes it is better for our children to not have grandparents. When grandparents are not able to act like real grandparents (loving), better to remove them from the people we love most and who are too vulnerable and small to do that theirselves.

Our society puts a big emphasis on family. I also happen to think it is a very important thing. Unfortunately, I am also not able to offer this to my daughter. She's 8. For some time I struggled with that. Now I just think about the things she does have. In the first place, that's sanity  :-)

Do you have nice friends or aquaintances that play some role in the life of your child ?

I understand how my GM did not care for me much. I honestly dont blame her. My very presence was a painful reminder of her dysfunctional daughter who she would never confront about bad behavior. My M had kids with 4 different men.

I don't agree with you here. EVERY child deserves to be loved. The fact that your mother was the person she was has in fact has nothing to do with it. Some grandmothers would have even cared for you more, since your mother did not take up an appropriate mother role. You could have done with a loving grandmother. A child is vulnerable and innocent. Every child. Also you were.
I am not saying that you should be resentful, that's something else. What I am saying is that your grandmother should have behaved differently.

[Please help]

Fie,

  I agree 100%. Part of my healing was to understand why people acted the way they did to me and see things from their point of view.

It does hurt my aunt and cousins are acting this way. Deep down, I feel a bit of sadness and rejection but it's tolerable.

 I will move on with my life and continue to become a healthier and stronger person.

I know they were not at his level and I interacted with them as though I was walking on eggshells. Yet, I still managed to set them off.

[Fie]

Deep down, I feel a bit of sadness and rejection but it's tolerable.

Like all children of BPD, I of course understand and feel this feeling of rejection.

On the other hand... .when you really, really think it through ... would you like to be *not* rejected by people as dysfunctional as them ? What would that say about you ?

Like attracts like. If you are normal, you cannot be accepted by sick people. And maybe you don't even want that.

I'd say, their loss.

[Please help]

Sure. I would like to have a healthy relationship with them. I noticed no one in family ever helped anyone get ahead i.e college. There was help with rent, cars and cash but never prudent investments made into the next generation.

Another thing is they could have googled my name and quickly found me. I am fully aware of that but would never bring it up.

I knew them casually as a kid and saw my M a few times when they all lived together 28 years ago. From what I recall, we hung out a bit but there were problems in the end. My aunt did not care for me coming over and my M used that as an excuse to stop having me visit. That is where my M & I parted ways.

  There is no love lost here.

[Notwendy]

It is hard to "lose" connections with family members, however, the way we see them from our view as children may not be the same as who they are. And who they are doesn't always look like what we think.

As a kid, I didn't realize the  differences between my father and mother's family. My dad was a self made man, who came from a poor family. Mom's family was well off, well- educated and connected. We were not as acceptable to this side of the family. We were half my father's family.

As a kid, I saw my mother's FOO as a close knit family that I longed to be a part of but was not included in. Later I recognized this as being enmeshed and cult like. Thank goodness I was not accepted, even if it hurt.

Still, I assumed I had a relationship with these people. But the only glue between them and me was my father. When my father died, these people disappeared from my world. Not a phone call to ask how I was doing, not a card, not an e mail. I tried to reach out to them after my father died, but they didn't reciprocate.

I cried a lot when this happened, felt abandoned, felt sorry for myself. How could these people do this to me when I just lost my father. Yet, they didn't do anything to me. They were being who they are. I just didn't see it, didn't want to see it. Wanted to believe I was connected to them but it was an illusion. And although it was hurtful, feeling like a victim made not one difference to them, so I decided to move on and connect to other people.

My father's family remains close to me.

While this sounds like a cliche rich/poor thing, it isn't. It is dysfunction/not dysfunction. It is just that being successful in a college, or career, doesn't imply one is not dysfunctional. Although they may not all be dysfunctional, and some are more functional than others, the narcissistic culture is a family pattern. They are not bad people. The obey the law, are conscientious productive people, but they are in general self absorbed, and this comes across as uncaring.

We didn't choose our relatives, but we do choose our families. It can hurt to lose a connection, but IMHO, if it is something we can lose, it must not have been a strong one in the first place.

[Please help]

Very true. Your words hit me hard. It's impossible to lose contact with your family. Things have to be pretty bad for a M to not speak to her child for 25 years.

I have dug up damn near everyone possible relative I could think of to have some sort of family.

I have a beautiful wife and child. They are my family. I wanted others but as mentioned, there may simply be too much dysfunction and bad blood.

I only talked to my cousin 5-6x on the phone and 2x she became unhinged talking about her father and bad childhood then on another occasion accusing me of lying.

I was even saying I am concerned because she was getting so worked up.


The human psyche is very delicate and once shattered the person becomes insane.

It's amazing I can see BPD  traits all through the family. Some of it is learned and some of course genetic.

 



 

[Notwendy]

I have a cousin who sometimes begins to come out of her shell and hint that all is not right in her FOO ( same FOO as my mother's).

I would love to hear the stories from other family members, not to be critical but to put a part of that mystery puzzle of the bigger picture together.

My fathers family has been very helpful filling in details of my parents in the past, when they met, when they married, when I was little.

My mothers-they say nothing.

So this cousin begins to talk, and I try to let he know I am a safe place to say something, and that I would share what I know too.

Then, she clams up, and I hear nothing from her for months.

She's not disordered - but it is the family rule to not speak about the issues and yet, I think sometimes she wants to.

We can look for our family to connect with, but it is up to them too.

Your family is your wife and child. What a gift to start over with.  

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Please help: 

My M moved in with her M (my G mother) when I was 8-9 and I briefly stayed with them ( a few months) but then moved in with my F who was staying with his friend that had a crack house. Oddly, my M used to occasionally stay with us as well. Maybe to get out of her parents house and get high for a few days. My F disappeared for a few months and I do not know where he went but I stayed with his friend who was nice to me. He dealt coke and burglarized buildings for a living. He often took me along on his heists. I watched him almost get murdered in a drug deal. I am grateful he let me stay with him and although the living situation was insane, I realize he was not my F and it was an act of kindness.

I have to commend you for surviving your childhood with a moral compass.  I'm thinking you easily could have entered a life of crime or have become a drug addict. Do you have any thoughts to share about how you escaped all that?

Are your father and his friend, that you stayed with, still alive?  If so, any contact with them?

In view of all that happened in your family and the degree of dysfunction, it is quite possible that some things happened between your mom and aunt (and other relatives) that you aren't aware of.  (you don't know what you don't know).  Some reactions from your relatives may relate to things you just aren't aware of.

Sounds like you made a very good effort to reach out to your relatives, but I'm thinking they don't deserve you or your family.  Best to create family elsewhere (from others who aren't blood relatives).

[Please help]

Hello,

  I did not want to go to prison so I took a different route. I talked to the burglar guy 1x since that period of my life and he told me the details I was missing. He said my M hated me and told everyone what a bad kid I was. She complained how I helped burglarize buildings , etc with this guy. She did not see the logic that she left me with this guy.

 I think there are a number of factors why my aunt and cousins suddenly hate me after the brief reunion. I conducted myself for the most part as though I was dealing with BPD women. Very careful what I said, etc. It turns out they still turned on me.

 Admittedly, there were red flags everywhere.

 I just focus on being a better father and husband. They can spend the next year or so getting high and complaining about perceived slights I said

Thanks