Too much BPD

[Moselle]

I feel that my life has revolved around BPD for 3 years now. I understand it pretty well, and I want to move forward and focus on new things.

It's a chapter i want to minimise in my life.

How can I tune out of this stuff? I don't want to lean more about dysfunctional people

[earlgrey]

I feel that my life has revolved around BPD for 3 years now. I understand it pretty well, and I want to move forward and focus on new things.

Hi Moselle... .I've been on it a similar time, understand it pretty well too and I still ruminate!

Part of it is because there are still some things that are not clear to me, but part of it is also a kind of fascination. A fascination of something precious (the r/s) that almost worked perfectly but ultimately fell apart. Like some Greek tragedy... .you may feel love but you may not keep it!

Maybe it is like grieving... .and at some point it will just all heal up and become history.

But I'm not there yet!

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Moselle-

How can I tune out of this stuff? I don't want to lean more about dysfunctional people

Tuning it out is one option, and growing through it is another.  I'm not totally current on your story, but for me, shifting the focus from my ex to me and looking at all my behaviors, and more importantly the beliefs and focus behind those behaviors, and they were far from perfect or even healthy, that has been profound, and nothing like stressful situations to bring out the "worst" in us, or at least the things we may want to look at more closely.  And then, having worked through that, grown, and forgiven myself, I've been taking it out into the world and, looking at things with new eyes and a higher sense of calm, engaging with other people more deeply, and not only that, it's interesting to me to see what's up with people, something I never put much emphasis on before except those I was very close to, and after we've spent time learning about "personality disorders", which as we know are on a continuum anyway, we've gotten an education and an awareness that may not be fully apparent until we notice things people do and go 'aha', seen that before, know what that's about.  Mental health or lack thereof, and the human condition in general, is fascinating to me, and little did I know when I got here in pain a while ago I'd get benefits that tie into that well, and an education I didn't necessarily want, but that gave me benefits I couldn't have seen going in.

So anyway, that's me; have you noticed benefits beyond your ex Moselle?

[Moselle]

Tuning it out is one option

Tuning out is perhaps a poor description. Perhaps "shifting focus is a better choice of words . It's been interesting to watch my focus switch from being angry with her and her behaviour to dealing with my unhealthy traits at CODA and here. I've done alot of core work already and there's much more to do. Perhaps one of the problems is that I have a gf with a BPD mother and sociopathic ex (very successful HR professional, industrial psych, divorced 6 years) The advantage is that we understand each other very well and help eachother grow. The disadvantage is that there is more family dysfunction to handle. Our growth has been exponential since we got together 4 months ago. We are both highly driven to recover. She helps me and I help her but there's a part of me saying "enough already". I am acutely aware that we become like the 5 people we spend the most time with and between her family and mine, it reads like the Cluster B hall of fame

Mental health or lack thereof, and the human condition in general, is fascinating to me, and little did I know when I got here in pain a while ago I'd get benefits that tie into that well, and an education I didn't necessarily want, but that gave me benefits I couldn't have seen going in.

It's fascinating to me too, but this stuff has become my life, and I'm kind of wanting it to go away for a bit. Recovery is a rewarding joyful and tough road, through off-map, out-of-comfort-zone experiences. I want to enjoy a bit now though, and the road just seems to get steeper. Is this the human condition?

have you noticed benefits beyond your ex Moselle?

Massive benefits
- I read dysfunction like it's standing out and shouting at me. It's beyond me how people around me are completely oblivious to the dynamics of 25% or so of the population who are diagnosable with a mental disorder. I use my own watered down version of 'blurt mode' to test how deep a person goes.

- I can read bullsh1t very quickly and can challenge it in non-threatening ways. So I can help people this way

- I am a commercial deal maker so this ability to read dynamics is a game-changer for me. Sometimes I apply energy, sometimes I empathise, sometimes I use SET, sometimes I call bullsh1t, sometimes I tread lightly. My ability to adapt has increased massively to get a deal done.

- In am more authentic in a leadership sense. Not fully and it's a work in progress but aware of ego and my tendencies in this space.

[fromheeltoheal]

Mental health or lack thereof, and the human condition in general, is fascinating to me, and little did I know when I got here in pain a while ago I'd get benefits that tie into that well, and an education I didn't necessarily want, but that gave me benefits I couldn't have seen going in.

It's fascinating to me too, but this stuff has become my life, and I'm kind of wanting it to go away for a bit. Recovery is a rewarding joyful and tough road, through off-map, out-of-comfort-zone experiences. I want to enjoy a bit now though, and the road just seems to get steeper. Is this the human condition?

Yep, I'm with you.  We grow by getting out of our comfort zone, but spending all our time there is by definition uncomfortable.  I've found that at times when I've chosen to chill, like a plateau in the road, I'm usually amazed at how much I've learned during the last climb.  It's like you're a little higher so you can see more and we can't see it until we stop climbing and look.

I dunno, the human condition is what we say it is.  I have friends with virtually no ambition, spend most of their time sitting on their ass doing nothing, and they seem entirely content with something that would drive me crazy.  To each his own, but one thing's for sure, no one has it easy, we all have challenges.

Massive benefits
- I read dysfunction like it's standing out and shouting at me. It's beyond me how people around me are completely oblivious to the dynamics of 25% or so of the population who are diagnosable with a mental disorder. I use my own watered down version of 'blurt mode' to test how deep a person goes.

- I can read bullsh1t very quickly and can challenge it in non-threatening ways. So I can help people this way

- I am a commercial deal maker so this ability to read dynamics is a game-changer for me. Sometimes I apply energy, sometimes I empathise, sometimes I use SET, sometimes I call bullsh1t, sometimes I tread lightly. My ability to adapt has increased massively to get a deal done.

- In am more authentic in a leadership sense. Not fully and it's a work in progress but aware of ego and my tendencies in this space.

Youda man!  Awesome stuff Moselle, and I agree, I'm noticing so much more about people.  We get good at what we practice, and I grew up believing everyone was exactly the same, not a bad belief really, but it needed a tweak, everyone's mostly the same, but the differences in wiring can be profound.

[Grey Kitty]

I feel that my life has revolved around BPD for 3 years now. I understand it pretty well, and I want to move forward and focus on new things.

Perhaps one of the problems is that I have a gf with a BPD mother and sociopathic ex [... .] but there's a part of me saying "enough already". I am acutely aware that we become like the 5 people we spend the most time with and between her family and mine, it reads like the Cluster B hall of fame

Start spending more time and energy on healthy people and less on the Cluster B hall of fame!

You may not be able to drop those people entirely... .but can you prioritize better/healthier people?

I know that personally I've not been directly dealing with Cluster B crap much at all for a while... .and I'm finally finding myself losing interest in it. People with traits just seem to be unattractive and uninteresting to me more. Along with it my time on these forums is waning as well.

All that said... .I do think that learning to deal well with Cluster B people is a GREAT skill for the rest of your life--with healthier people. As you said, it helps you professionally, and you aren't the only person I've heard that from. I recently said to somebody that a pwBPD takes normal bad behavior of normal people and turns it up to 11. When you can respond well to that, you can handle difficult situations with normal people easily and gracefully.

[Moselle]

I know that personally I've not been directly dealing with Cluster B crap much at all for a while... .and I'm finally finding myself losing interest in it. People with traits just seem to be unattractive and uninteresting to me more.

That's great GK. I can fully understand the unattractiveness. Well done for finding more healthier pastures. I'm quite keen on that.

Mental health or lack thereof, and the human condition in general, is fascinating to me, and little did I know when I got here in pain a while ago I'd get benefits that tie into that well, and an education I didn't necessarily want, but that gave me benefits I couldn't have seen going in.

Has the pain died down over time. I'm still feeling it!

We grow by getting out of our comfort zone, but spending all our time there is by definition uncomfortable.  I've found that at times when I've chosen to chill, like a plateau in the road, I'm usually amazed at how much I've learned during the last climb.  It's like you're a little higher so you can see more and we can't see it until we stop climbing and look.

This is so true. Thanks for pointing that out. There has been a lot of progress. It feels like hard won territory though, and its hard to see it really manifesting in my life. Internally I feel stronger, and it's taking time to reflect externally. Plugging away in faith at this point.

[fromheeltoheal]

Mental health or lack thereof, and the human condition in general, is fascinating to me, and little did I know when I got here in pain a while ago I'd get benefits that tie into that well, and an education I didn't necessarily want, but that gave me benefits I couldn't have seen going in.

Has the pain died down over time. I'm still feeling it!

Yeah, it's interesting though, when I was with her it was chaotic, confusing and unpredictable, and I was stressed and anxious all the time, and leaving her fixed all of that, and then there were months of missing her, or more accurately my fantasy of her, and then the fog cleared and looking more objectively at what I'd been through was a major slap in the face, like what the hell?  Why did I go so far down that rabbit hole, why did I tolerate what I did?  And turns out the pain of that realization was greater than the pain of being with and then leaving her, which was a good thing because I used it; I quit drinking, quit smoking, got in great shape, and finally started to look at issues I knew I had but had been avoiding or denying forever.  Gotta thank a borderline for that, finally I got pushed over the edge of my own denial.  So that was a while ago and things have gotten far better, everything we focus on and practice improves, and seems like all of my priorities have shifted, what was important to me a couple of years ago no longer matters.  Still new, still challenges, there's that human condition, but I feel like I have direction and I know what my bright future looks like, one step at a time man... .

We grow by getting out of our comfort zone, but spending all our time there is by definition uncomfortable.  I've found that at times when I've chosen to chill, like a plateau in the road, I'm usually amazed at how much I've learned during the last climb.  It's like you're a little higher so you can see more and we can't see it until we stop climbing and look.

This is so true. Thanks for pointing that out. There has been a lot of progress. It feels like hard won territory though, and its hard to see it really manifesting in my life. Internally I feel stronger, and it's taking time to reflect externally. Plugging away in faith at this point.

I know what you mean.  I looked out at my life a couple of years ago, like I described above, and didn't like what I saw, but I did have the sense to realize what I can control and what I can't, and really all I can control is myself and what I'm doing, focusing on and believing, so I've focused on those for a while now, and it takes a while for changes to manifest in the world, but still, if I keep going back to keeping my own side of the street clean things get better, they always get better.  Faith is good Moselle, as long as you know you're on the right track, and for me it's also made me more comfortable in my own skin, which I like a lot, and what shows up from here is supposed to yes?

[Moselle]

So that was a while ago and things have gotten far better, everything we focus on and practice improves, and seems like all of my priorities have shifted, what was important to me a couple of years ago no longer matters.  Still new, still challenges, there's that human condition, but I feel like I have direction and I know what my bright future looks like, one step at a time man... .

I had good for ten years (that's if you consider idolisation and possessive phase to be good . It felt good at the time), then 5 years of wild swings between very good and very very bad. So I still yearn for the good years. We accomplished a lot, had three children and saw the world. So if I look at straight comparisons, dysfunctional was good compared to now financially, socially, career, growth. So its hard to have confidence in the direction I've chosen if I look on the outward appearances. Denial seemed to have been good for me.

Having said that, I've recently re-discovered a compelling purpose and direction. I'm allowing it to grow roots and drive my daily behaviour. I'm fortunate in that as a youngster I had an experience which gives me some confidence. At 13 I excelled at sport and was diagnosed with a disease in my knees which cause extreme pain, and for which the only cure was complete rest from sport for 3 years. I emerged as a 16 year old, having missed a lot of skills and fitness development. I spent a frustrating year playing for teams well below my standard. I got frustrated and felt that no-one could see my talent - I wanted to go straight back into the top team, yet looking back I needed that period of physical growth and learning, as I adjusted to the sport I had chosen - rugby. It was messy for me playing in the lower teams, and I think I gave up ever playing top rugby again. It hurt me that I wasn't playing with the guys in the first team that I had played with as a 13 year old. Someone saw my talent however and I won the "most improved player" award at the year end ceremony. I was invited to the first team training the following year and played every first team game that season. I remember very clearly when the coach called me over and said "Well done Moselle, you've earned this jersey, when it was handed out" I played my heart out for that coach. He could see more in me than I could see.

Just typing this memory has given me a bit of confidence in my direction. Thanks for prompting the thought

I'm learning to do that again. Surrounding myself with people who see more in me than I can see at the moment  -  My tribe, (No BPD's or NPD's allowed  )

Faith is good Moselle, as long as you know you're on the right track, and for me it's also made me more comfortable in my own skin, which I like a lot, and what shows up from here is supposed to yes?

Not comfortable in mine yet, though if hard work is a yard stick, I've put in my fair share. People see more in me than I see right now and I got a comment last night that I have changed massively in very positive ways since starting at CODA 9 months ago. I'd like to feel good about me, perhaps I'm waiting for the outward evidence of growth, before I really believe. Not sure. I just don't see it. Its a little bit like that year as a 16 year old playing in the lower teams.

I have some phenomenal days where I really show up with all my talents, and others where I'm racked with anxiety and fear, paralysed  

[HopefulDad]

To the first post, I hear you, Moselle.  I learned a ton from these boards which helped me get to a better place.  Through that process I had gotten my fill of BPD education and really didn't want to spend much more effort on learning more.  Because the people here were so helpful to me, I still come back to pay it forward* more than anything else.  I still learn more when I come here, but that's definitely secondary.


* YMMV on how helpful my replies are :D

[Moselle]

* YMMV on how helpful my replies are :D

Lol. Thanks hopefuldad. I was reading through my comments and replies when I first came on here on Feb 2014. YMMV on those too !

I'm really tired of this stuff now. I don't need it or want it in my life, which is progress... .I think... .I get the heebie jeebies when someone starts idolising or mirroring me, or starts raging or playing games. I just walk away.

[fromheeltoheal]

Rugby!  Tough sport, and good for you man!  And what you had there was conscious competence, you were good and you knew it.  We also have unconscious competence in some things, we're good but we don't yet know it, and maybe that's what you're referring to, you'd like some external validation to help build references to support your beliefs in yourself, then you'll have that conscious competence?  You got that validation from that coach and that person last night, and it helped yes?

Sidebar: my mother grew up in Scotland and when I was there visiting, I went out to the pub with my cousin and his rugby team, I think I remember it was just an amateur club, but after a few pints all his teammates started showing their scars, where this bone got broken, where that shoulder got dislocated, yikes!  Contact Sport to the extreme, but it was the gleam in their eyes as they told the stories that I remember most... .

I have some phenomenal days where I really show up with all my talents, and others where I'm racked with anxiety and fear, paralysed  

Yeah, me too, and having something to aim for, that compelling future, allows us to weather the debilitating emotions without getting too far off track, like something to aim for as we climb out of the muck.  Interesting though, emotions are so fleeting, and we are not our emotions.  Ever notice you can have a crappy day, go to bed, and wake up in the morning on top of the world?  I never figure out what changed, really nothing did, just a new day, guess I'll run with it... .

[Fie]

Hi there Moselle  

I thought about your question, because some months ago I felt pretty much the same way. I felt I'd thought and read enough about BPD, watched enough movies, recognized it in enough people. (I do notice myself seeing dysfunctional behavior a lot quicker than 'normal' people, but on the other hand I probably am doing sometimes the thing that Amanda is pointing out : I'm seeing it everywhere - and I'm sure it IS everywhere, but I think at some point I was at least slightly exagerating  ).

So at one moment I felt I needed a break and I just wanted to concentrate on doing things, in stead of thinking and reading about BPD. But somehow it did not go that smoothly. Yes I did things, went out with friends, I'd go to meetups (like in that period when I recommended meetup to you, remember). But after a date with friends I'd start watching a movie about BPD or so  :-).

I guess what finally did it for me me is not seeing my FOO anymore. And avoiding negative people. So pretty much the same as Greykitty said : avoiding cluster B crap. When I meet new people and I think I notice some BPD/NPD traits (and boy I do notice), I run.

That being said, I guess for you it's extra difficult because you *and* your girlfriend are focusing on BPD :-)
Maybe you could try agreeing to do more stuff together, stuff that has nothing to do with BPD? Visiting a museum, go for a bikeride, citytrip; ... .I don't suppose it's a realistic option for you to avoid the BPD in your life ?

Take care,
Fie

[Grey Kitty]

One frustrating thing is that when you climb up out of the FOG and start to see what you had been doing and stop doing it, and start doing better, you realize that you aren't done yet.

You've come a long way... .but you look back and see new things, perhaps ways you were codependent that were more subtle and insidious than the ones you already dealt with... .things you put up with that were far less egregious than what you noticed at the time, but that were there all along too.

Remember... .it is OK to feel frustrated about all this cluster B crap in your life, and not want to deal with it anymore. Nothing wrong with that feeling. Don't let the feeling become something else--your reality often varies from what you WANT it to be... .you can hold onto both the feeling (valid) and the reality (not gonna be like that for a while... .FOO isn't going to change, nor is gf's FOO)

And on the topic of "see it everywhere" ... .Just yesterday I was that supporter for a couple friends... .who both had a person in their life who was behaving badly, and my friend was confused and hurt. One offending party appears to have codependent traits; not cluster-B. The other offending party would appear to have some cluster-B traits, but not likely be diagnosable. In both cases, I was able to validate. In one case I was able to advise how to deal with the conflict; the other didn't really need it.

Fortunately, most days aren't like that for me... .but I do see BPD-style bad behavior exhibited by many people, and it is good to be able to cope well, at least!

Keep this up!

I'm learning to do that again. Surrounding myself with people who see more in me than I can see at the moment  -  My tribe, (No BPD's or NPD's allowed  )

[Herodias]

I know what you mean Moselle, I am sick of it too, yet I am obsessed with it. I have been studying it about 2 and a half years, since I had started before our split. I am into photography and get a thrill out of taking pictures of birds, so that is my hobby that I can do alone. I have a very social business, so I am with people all day. I had to give up the bad friends in my life, since I have discovered my co-dependancy issues that I have with people in general. In fact, one of my friends divorced her pwNPD and is with another one! I am glad I did the work and am not so desperate for someone to go through that all again. This guy is about to take her for all she has... .nothing I can do about it... .really sad. I refuse to be a doormat and I refuse to get too involved with trying to help other people that don't want to help themselves anymore. I just wish I could stop thinking about all of this too. I guess we have to try and be around "normal" people as much as possible. I have a group of new friends that I have dinner with every other week that I met in a divorce group... That is fun... .but people all have their drama. Maybe since we are all caretakers, we like being here to help each other out. That is a good thing... . I think it is hard to make things happen the way you want them to... .I think the CPTSD is keeping us stuck a bit as well. It is not that easy to just "get over it."