My ex girlfriend of 3.5 Months

[Willis002]

For 3 months I really thought I found the one for me. But the last few weeks have gone totally upside down. Let me start. 2 weeks ago my ex was trying to break up with me. She was blaming me for being clingy and this and that. I eventually was able to to talk her down and got to the root of the problem. She was highly stressed out and work and was drained from working two departments while being trained in one and working in the other. So she wanted to break up with me because of nothing. So of course she felt bad and she was saying things like," I hate myself for my behavior. I don't know why I always push you away. I just don't want to ruin you life  but I feel like I ruin everyone's lives. I should've never broken up with you. I'm such an imbecile. She also said, "Why would I risk it... .Why would I give up on the love of my life? What's wrong with me? So anyways she came down the next day to apologize and we made thing good again. She later sent me this text, " This is why I always try to break up. Because I'm a bad person, and I do this for an undetermined amount of time with everyone I'm close with until I finally feel safe. And then it stops. But until then I can't control this. Believe me, if I did. I would've stopped years ago... .Because I have lost SO MANY people in my life because of this behavior. So I hate myself! Believe me! I don't want to do this to you!

I go and see her that Saturday and we go to a drive in movie for 5-6 hrs and I stay the night. After we got back from the movies she gave me letters that were nicely tied together. There were 33 letters. She said it took her 2 weeks to make. They said,"Open when... .we fight, sad, hopeful for the future etc. They most talked about our future together, how much she loves me, if she wants to break up its a mistake, having children and getting married one day. But there was one letter that said,"Open when... .I push you away. On the back of this envelope it said Open only if necessary. It will change everything. Again only open if 100% sure. Please. So after I got home Sunday morning from her place I opened it. It stated that she has Borderline Personality Disorder. I told her that I read it. She said she need to step away and breathe. So I let her go for awhile. I got ahold of her a few hours later and everything seemed fine. I apologize for reading the letter and told her I loved her. She sent a text back say she loved me no matter what too!

So here is where the bomb went off. 5 hours letter I receive this text out of the blue. (My name). I don't want to be with you anymore. This is it. My final decision. Please don't try and change my mind. Don't call me. Don't call my friends. Don't show up at my house. Don't show up at my work. This will be the last time I contacted you. I will mail you your things, and your sisters thing. Again, DO NOT CONTACT ME. Off course now I have no freaking idea whats happening.

My mom receives a text from her (they were kinda close) saying I need to stop harassing her, her friends and family else she will have a restraining order put on me. She said she has been trying to get away from my obsessive behavior and won't be manipulated by me anymore by saying ill hurt myself. The only thing true here is I have said I would hurt myself and I know I'm wrong for that. She also says she feels unsafe. As I state above we spent 5 hrs at the movies and I spent the night with her. She can't be afraid of me write?

Okay so know you know the story. I know I'm crazy for saying this but I still want her back. I want to give her one last chance. Do you guys think she will contact me with the information I gave you guys. Since she is aware of her issue I feel we have a chance to make this work. I'm currently on week 2 of the break up and on day 5 of NO CONTACT. Can she see me white again without going out and dating someone. I don't think she is that type. She was saying to her friend that she just want to be alone forever. She is really down on herself. I think she broke up with me for these reasons besides her BPD. 1. I read the letter. 2. She wants to protect me from herself. 3. She doesn't feel like she deserves my love.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Turkish]

Hi Willis32,



To start, take a look at the lessons to the right off this board. Her admission of BPD gives you a baseline on understanding the core issues which drive her behaviors. Next,  take what she said about a restraining order seriously.  Without judging whether this is valid or not,  her feelings and the threat is.  We've had members get into legal trouble by ignoring this.  There are restraining orders associated with both relationships either side of the one I had with the mother of our kids.  

You know,  I would have opened the letter,  too. You told her.  What's done is done.  Think of it as a tar baby,  and test.  Putting a chocolate cake in front of a 6 year old,  trekking them not to touch it,  and leaving the room for half an hour

My ex,  though not diagnosed with BPD, said some similar things you related.  It's a challenge,  the push-pull (see here for more).

pwBPD are often driven by emotions they can't control (see the first lesson on the Improving Board to learn more). Whatever she feels is her reality at the time.  My ex also used to say that she thought she wanted to become a nun at one point,  a hermit.  That changed.  Then it changed again.  

I'd say that your last three points are an accurate 30,000 ft view of the situation. You can't take back #1, but you may be able to work with the last two of she contacts you. Read the lessons and understand how to validate.  Be careful,  however,  given the RO threat. That's a serious boundary that she's telegraphing.

[Willis002]

Thank you Turkish. There were times in the relationship she would question it. Like she would ask me are you sure you want to be with me and always wanted reassurance. I did make a few mistakes after the break up. I did try to contact her and her family. She told me I was INSANE and I wasn't doing a good job of not getting a restraining order. She told me to leave her the HELL alone and if I didn't stop that her family would have the police called. Her dad called me last Saturday and told me to stop making contact and if he heard anything else I would be hearing from the cops. So since then I have stopped. Have I ruined any chance of getting back with her? She also hasn't returned my thing to me like she said. Can I read anything into that? I miss her so much and have hope from what we had, the contents of the letter and the fact she I aware of her disorder and says she does this for a undetermined amount of time. I need help guys.

[Willis002]

Also I should add a few things. As soon as she broke up with me she blocked my phone number and Facebook. She did the same thing to my mother. Another fact that should be know is she is an Empath. She can feel other peoples feelings.

[Turkish]

Regarding the empath thing,  pwBPD are often hyper attuned to the feelings of others, and can be aware of that which others miss at first glance.  That being said,  it is often seen through a the lens of their feelings,  and can result in misinterpretation on their side. 

About her family contacting you,  I'd take this very seriously.  We've had members have restraining orders served,  and their significant others violate it.  The member engages in contact,  thinking it's ok,  but it turns out to be trouble.  She's asserting a hard boundary here,  stopping short of legal action you don't want. 

What about the stuff though?  Is it critical that it's returned? 

[Willis002]

Believe me I'm not going to make any contact with anyone. I'm going to wait and see what happens now. No the things she needs to give back aren't very important. I was referring to this as her having some control over me by not giving my stuff back. Just thinking thats what she's doing. Can she on day just see me as good again without having to go on dates and get a trigger that she misses me. I feel there's many things that could trigger her back to me because our relationship honestly was very good. She just lacks self confidence. I really hope she comes back. I've been educating myself and trying to make myself stronger for myself and us. She is worth it!

[Turkish]

It could be,  and even might be likely,  that something could trust her to contact you.  If there isn't an actual RO against you,  then the ball will be in your court,  which is why I encourage you to digest the lessons and learn how to validate and not unintentionally trigger her core fears.  

Regarding the stuff,  hard to say.  Machiavelli wasn't BPD. It's more likely that it doesn't cross her mind.  On the flip side, my ex left a ton of stuff I thought was important to her.  She abandoned it,  including her journals.  At first I thought it might be her way of communicating with me passive aggressively,  but it was probably more due to Impulsivity.  She fled,  and it didn't cross jet mind. 

[Willis002]

Should I just wait 3 weeks to 2 months before even consider making contact with her or should I just leave be and hope she contacts me. When things were good she wanted all the things I wanted. Kids, marriage; I mean everything. She is a very smart woman. The fact that she knows she lost a lot of people because of her behavior makes me think she might reach out to me once the dust settles. I feel there are triggers such as if she gets lonely, she goes on a date with someone and doesn't work out and thinking about her future. Such as having a family, living with someone and marriage. I pray she contacts me because I want to make this work. She deserves to have someone good in her life. She has had a horrible upbringing. She has mother who is like a mommy dearest, she was raped in high school and had an abusive fiancé. She always said I was too good to her and treated her like a queen. She said I was it and if not she would be alone forever.

[Turkish]

This is hard to digest,  but the that's a hard boundary,  the threat of a RO. Waiting for her to contact you is the safest bet to keep you safe.  

I have no doubt that you're a decent guy.  The trouble many of us have is aligning our feelings to theirs, or assuming they think in the same way.  

[Willis002]

Thank wolf. So you really think there's a real chance she contacts me in the future. I know nothing is for sure. I'm putting out a lot of positive vibes and hoping that she tries to reconnect with me. I hope she can naturally not see me as "black" anymore and see me as "white". I feel that if I get the chance I want to tell her I'll never abandon her and that I will tell her I'll never leave her. People with this disorder deserve to have love too! I think if I can get stronger emotionally her and I have a chance. I feel I'm the kind of guy is compassionate enough to helper. Idk if its true but maybe once she trusts me this won't happen again but I can't count on it.

There will be a lot of things that will need cleaned up if we decide to get back together. Our families, her and I and her possibly seeking help.

[C.Stein]

I am in agreement with Turkish on this.  She has set a hard boundary and you need to respect it.

In the meantime I suggest you learn as much about the disorder as you can.  Education on BPD and understanding what it will really take to even have a chance at a semi-stable relationship is what you need right now.  There are many excellent resources on this site that you should make use of (see right column).  Ask questions, read about other peoples issues ... .etc.  

If she should reach out to you then you will be prepared for the reality of what you face with open eyes not blind hope.  I operated on blind hope in my relationship for two years and it nearly destroyed me.  

Understand that "successful" relationships with a borderline will require both people to work on themselves.  She will not magically get better because you have changed your behavior and walking on egg shells is not a solution.  Without a serious commitment on her part to address her disorder and learn how to manage it nothing will change.  Even if she takes that step and is able to sustain the work on herself in a meaningful way it will still be hard.  This is something you need to be crystal clear on and prepared for if she should express a desire to reconcile.

Worth noting.  My ex said many of the same things to me and while she may have believed what she was saying in that moment, that moment was as far as it went.  

[Willis002]

I totally understand and I'm trying to educate myself as much as possible. Could you guys think of some scenarios where she might want to make contact. Can one day can a switch be turned on and she views me in a loving way again? I'm just curious if she can split me again and see me as good without having to go out and date. I don't see her dating right away. She broke up I think because I know she has her disorder and because she feels she should be alone. She doesn't want to ruin my life. She said she ruins everyones lives.

[Willis002]

1. I will move on with my life and casually date.
2. Do you think even with damage she has caused and lies she has told to her family that she will still try and contact me.
3. I will be dating other women by this time, could this set her off if she finds out or if she tries to reconnect with me.

I'm just trying to prepare myself for whatever situation arises. I do want on last shot with her. Everyone I've talked to says she doesn't deserve me. I will date during the mean time. I don't feel Ill be ready for a relationship until the beginning of the year. If she does come back we wouldn't get back together immediately we would date first. She would have to earn herself back into my life. I'm a lot stronger now and will be even stronger if she makes an attempt to come back into my life.

[Downtown]

I want to tell her I'll never abandon her and that I will tell her I'll never leave her. People with this disorder deserve to have love too!

Willis, if she is a BPDer, assuring her of your love and devotion is not sufficient.  In addition to her fear of abandonment, she also has a great fear of engulfment.  This combination of two fears puts you both in a lose/lose situation, no matter what you do -- until she undertakes intensive therapy.  The reason is that those two fears lie at opposite ends of the very same spectrum.

This means that, as you back away from one fear, you are drawing closer to triggering the other.  Specifically, as you draw close to assure her of your love, she will soon feel engulfed and suffocated by the intimacy.  Granted, a BPDer typically craves intimacy like nearly every other adult.  Yet, because a BPDer has a very fragile weak sense of self identity, she cannot tolerate intimacy for very long.  She will start feeling controlled by you, like she is losing herself inside your strong personality.  

Indeed, she may even feel like her weak self identity is evaporating into thin air.  She therefore will push you away by creating a fight over nothing.  Importantly, the accusation coming out of her mouth will originate from her subconscious, which is projecting the hurtful feelings onto you.  At a conscious level, she will be absolutely convinced that projection -- i.e., that allegation -- is true.

Yet, as you back off to give her breathing space, you will start triggering her great fear of abandonment, causing her to start love bombing you again at some point. The result is that BPDer relationships typically exhibit a repeating cycle of push-away and pull-back.  For 15 years, I tried to break that cycle by finding the midpoints position -- not too far away and not too close -- so I could avoid triggering my BPDer exW's two fears.  And I took her to weekly sessions with six psychologists and three MCs.  The result is that I learned that this Goldilocks position simply does not exist in an untreated BPDer.

Moreover, I also learned that such a person is incapable of trusting you for any extended period.  Because trust is the foundation on which all close relationships must be built, there is simply no foundation on which to build a lasting relationship with an untreated BPDer.  This is why it is important for her to work hard on addressing her issues in therapy (e.g., DBT or CBT).

[Willis002]

Thank you so very much! I sent her one last message and I know it was risky. I told her I was sorry, that I'm going to start dating other women, that I wished her the best, told her I won't contact her again and told her goodbye using the nickname I gave her.

I feel that if I stay way she will try and comeback because we had good chemistry and she isn't the type to lie and sleep around. She broke up with me shortly before her birthday, so she isn't money hungry either. I just think she needs to recalibrate herself. She has done a lot of damage on both sides of our families. I wonder if that will be a factor if she tries to come back. But she told me once she couldn't wait for her family to move even farther away. She has a relationship with her family but they aren't close.

[aristan2000]

She isn't the type to lie and sleep around.

That might be true, but many BPDs are manipulative and deceptive. They also tend to be very promiscuous and are expert at hiding their affairs.

[Willis002]

I try not to think about stuff like that because I'm not with her anymore. I was wondering since I told her that I'm starting to date again that might trigger something in her. I'm trying to get her back to the middle of the spectrum where' she starts wanting me again. She's on the too close to me side of things right now

[aristan2000]

I try not to think about stuff like that because I'm not with her anymore. I was wondering since I told her that I'm starting to date again that might trigger something in her. I'm trying to get her back to the middle of the spectrum where' she starts wanting me again. She's on the too close to me side of things right now

Trying to be in the "middle" with a BPD is not sustainable, but can work short term. I thought I could do what you are doing too. You might want to really look at the whole situation. Is it the way you feel around her that you're in love with? She's triggering these feelings that already exist in you - she's not the cause of them!

As other have respectfully suggested, I would not make any sort of contact whatsoever with and decide how/if you'll respond to her should she contact you.  Mine had me madly in love, then she posted passive agressive messages clearly aimed at me, spoke of wanting to get back with her ten year olds father, he told her he wasn't interested, we kind of got back in a relationship, she then confessed feelings for another man,  unfriended me on Facebook without warning, smeared me with her family (sounding a little familiar?) acussed me of conspiring against her and then we basically stopped contact with me, reunited with her kids dad. We ended up speaking after my badmouthing of her got back to her. Weeks after that she texted me wanting to come over and guess what... .we reunited and had sex. The relationship went on behind her other man's back. Then a few weeks later the craziness happened and she dissapeared and moved in with a young co-worker. She's now in a relationship with that girl mom even though she was "super straight" before. I'm at the point now that I don't want her back.

[Willis002]

I really love this woman! I went on a date last night and all I could do is think of her when I was doing stuff with this other girl. I just want her to comeback and we can go from there. She has on last shot with me. Today is a rough day though. Today is her 21st birthday

[aristan2000]

Thank wolf. So you really think there's a real chance she contacts me in the future. I know nothing is for sure. I'm putting out a lot of positive vibes and hoping that she tries to reconnect with me. I hope she can naturally not see me as "black" anymore and see me as "white". I feel that if I get the chance I want to tell her I'll never abandon her and that I will tell her I'll never leave her. People with this disorder deserve to have love too! I think if I can get stronger emotionally her and I have a chance. I feel I'm the kind of guy is compassionate enough to helper. Idk if its true but maybe once she trusts me this won't happen again but I can't count on it.

There will be a lot of things that will need cleaned up if we decide to get back together. Our families, her and I and her possibly seeking help.

I would personally not say something like "I'll never leave her" to any girlfriend BPD or not. That may come across as a little creepy or possessive, especially with younger women. It would also likely make your ex think that you are starting to smother her and she'll vanish from your life very quickly.

Willis, you might also want to keep in mind that you've only known this woman for a few months and in that short time you have endured both considerable drama and abusive behavior from this woman, yet you're posting here and it seems as if you are simply looking for reassurance that she may one day come back and the good news (if you want to call it that) is that there is a good chance she might, but the odds of the relationship being stable and happy are very low. I can't say what will happen with your ex, but in my case, which sounds almost identical to your situation up to our first break up, she DID come back and we ended up having amazing sex, laughing, having little conflict this time. I think a lot of it was that I spent dozens of hours reading all I could about BPD relationships and working on my own possible personality disorder: NPD. Despite all of my efforts she started behaving oddly and vanishing again after not having any significant contact with her for weeks, I find out by temporarily unblocking her on Facebook that she now in an open and public first time (as far as I know! :D ) Lesbian relationship at the age of 48. I know now the reality and it's bleak: If I stay with this woman this is what it will be like: intermitent sex/affection, starting a smear campaign against me, much irrational conflict and blame, weeks/months/years of not seeing her and then her popping up and believe me she'll have many sexual partners that I will never know about.  I'm opting out of this relationship and cutting off all contact with this person her friends and her family.  I don't mean in anyway to sound harsh, but even if you educate yourself on BPD, which it doesn't seem you have done up until this point, she seeks therapy on her own with some support and you have the best intentions, the likelyhood will be that this (at best) will be an on again/off again thing. The odds are very high that your ex is already with someone and probably had them lined up before they made the decision to break up with you. You really need to educate yourself on the disorder. That's the best thing to gain clarity for you, in my opinion.

[Meili]

Let's be careful not to paint all pwBPD with the same brush. Each person and situation is unique.

BPD is a spectrum disorder and not everyone falls on the same place in the spectrum. Some pwBPD have stronger traits than others (and some have none of the specific traits even).

For some, promiscuity and infidelity is part of their lives. For others, the fear of abandonment is so great that they would not dare risk it.

[Downtown]

BPD is a spectrum disorder and not everyone falls on the same place in the spectrum. Some pwBPD have stronger traits than others (and some have none of the specific traits even).

Very interesting comment.  Meili, if you can, please provide a link pointing to a professional article espousing this view that a pwBPD may exhibit "none of the specific traits."  I would sure like to read about it.  As you know, BPD traits are simply behavioral symptoms that describe the typical behaviors exhibited by someone having the underlying disorder.  

Significantly, none of those BPD traits describe any characteristic of the disorder itself.  Indeed, nobody on the planet has yet proven to a certainty what it is that actually causes BPD, i.e., causes the full-blown disorder.  Until that underlying disorder is identified, BPD diagnosis will continue to be based entirely on the display of BPD behavioral traits.  Hence, if these behaviors are entirely missing -- i.e., the person exhibits "none of the traits" as you say -- I cannot imagine how anyone could identify that person as a pwBPD.

[aristan2000]

Let's be careful not to paint all pwBPD with the same brush. Each person and situation is unique.

BPD is a spectrum disorder and not everyone falls on the same place in the spectrum. Some pwBPD have stronger traits than others (and some have none of the specific traits even).

For some, promiscuity and infidelity is part of their lives. For others, the fear of abandonment is so great that they would not dare risk it.

I certainly didn't paint anyone with the same brush, if you are referencing me. I just accurately pointed that certain actions are disproportionately represented in BPDs than in the general population. Some don't engage in promiscuity as a coping mechanism, but it's far more prevelant. The ones who don't tend to be the exceptions not the rule.

I've never heard of a BPD exhibiting none of the behavioral symptoms.

[Willis002]

I'm almost certain she didn't cheat on me. The last time we were together she asked me if it was okay if a guy came over to watch a show with us. She hadn't seen him in two years and he was in town. She said they were watching the same Netflix show and want to watch a few episodes together. I said that was. Then it didn't work out, because her and I went to the movies by ourselves. She asked me if it was okay if he came over Sunday instead and wanted to make sure if I was okay with it. So I'm not really concerned with her possibly cheating on me. I still think she is single and wants to be single. She doesn't want to hurt anyone. Remember guys she broke up with once I found out about her disorder. Thats it. Even when we first met on an online dating site she even said she was looking for a serious relationship. She wanted to someone who was focusing on the long term and not on the short term. She said it was rare to find a guy who has there ___ together and wants something serious. Also, she dated a couple guys before me. They were a couple date each at the most and they fizzled out. The she found me. So she does have standard and is looking for the one. I personally think she just wants to alone for awhile. Also she doesn't want to hurt me. I believe once she is coming back to her center she will realize what she has done. She is aware of her disorder and that her behavior has caused her to lose many people in her life. She even said she didn't want to do this to me, but it takes her awhile to trust and then it stops.

This in a nutshell is why I still have hope once the dust settles she will come back.

[aristan2000]

she has her disorder and because she feels she should be alone

My opinion - If she has the disorder, she'll not want to be alone except when she's overwhelmed, scared or anxious, which (sadly) will be about half the time. She feels emotions at a higher 'volume' than most and many defense mechanisms, including the natural and (usually) normal fear of abandonment, are amplified. Unfortunately the paradox is that unlike 'normal' relationships where the initial and intense early attraction stops being the continual focus as you develop a deeper emotional bond in the weeks, months and years that follow. With a BPD lover, you will start to settle in the relationship and she'll take you're being more relaxed and perhaps contacting her less and she will view this as disinterest and possibly fear that you are planning to leave. She'll then rage, but since you didn't even see this coming, you'll be convinced that you actually did something terrible to her. It must be your faults since she's so amazing and perfect and start to appear needy, which she will then view you as smothering and lose interest. It's you who'll be up nights plotting ways to win her back, how to "accidentally" run into her, wondering if she's having sex with someone else, thinking just what you'd do and how it's going to be different this time. I can't say it enough Willis. You need to educate yourself as much as you can to protect your own emotional state. I just fear from reading your posts that you essentially just want people to tell you that she'll come back to you. I don't see you asking questions that stray too far from the ":)o you think she'll come back?" thing. 

[Willis002]

Yes! It's a lose/lose I understand that. I just want to give it one last try. She has 2 strikes with me. I'm not going back without knowing this could be the end sooner than later. I definitely reached out a lot. But now I'm stopping for my own sanity and to protect myself. I believe at some point since now I'm giving her NC she wanted she will reach out in awhile. I believe this because she tried breaking up with me Monday of that same week (broke up Sunday night). She came down the next day to apologize and was upset for the rest of the week for what she did. These emotions I feel will arise once she wakes up

[aristan2000]

I can't speak at all for what will happen with your girl, that's not my place. My situation was very similar to what you are describing and I ended up using manipulative tactics to get her to come back that's how besotted I was (am?) She came back, but so did her problems. We had no big break up the second time around. She just stopped calling or texting except once or twice when she wanted weed. I also lent her $25 for cigarettes in August she has yet to repay. She has come by my store once or twice and we had pleasant enough interactions, but my finding she was now in a relationship with a woman was the straw that broke the camel's back as fare as we were concerened. I'm new to this board too and I don't know the protocol, but if you need/want to talk or txt, I'd be happy to do so.

[Willis002]

I appreciate it brother! Maybe email would be better? I've read about all of the BPD ex girlfriends who pretty bad. But my ex really doesn't fit that bill. I honestly think she's all kinds of messed up. She always told me when she go into a "bad head space" that she needed to have time to clear her head. I honestly think she was doing a decent job of not ruining the relationship. She would let me know that she only could hangout for so long. She need to have her own time as well.

[Turkish]

Couple of thoughts here:

One,  the threat of a restraining order is real.  We've had members end up with those not taking seriously this threat. In the best cases, a public smear campaign had ensued. Even without legal issues,  this results in a loss of reputation,  which might be priceless.  For this,  learn as much as you can about BPD and how to communicate so as not to be invalidating.  Learning to do this applies to 100% of our membership (myself included),  with a pwBPD of any relation.  

Two, dating to date should be for you,  not telegraphing that it's to elicit a response from her.  That's playing into her abandonment fears,  which gets you back to the same place and dynamic you were in: you serving her needs.  :)on't validate the invalid.  Sure,  if she comes back,  you receive something,  but the dynamic hasn't changed.  History will likely repeat itself unless you learn new tools.

[Willis002]

Believe me I've been doing my research on BPD. I'm just trying to figure out how I can apply it if she comes back. I have a lot more understanding about it. I honestly don't think she is on the high end of the spectrum to be honest. She's aware of her disorder and she knows she hurt people. I have to remember she must be going through a lot too. I'm starting to bounce back. I feel if she came back in 2-3 I would be ready for whatever happens.