Long Distance Relationships

[Think About It...]

Since separating from my BP-trait now exW in May, I started trying to meet people online.  I reported on such in another thread quoted here:

I therefore tried a "niche" connection board of people with similar interests nationally.  It has been marvelous!  I immediately began exchanging emails with a number of women who appeared to match my demographics, values, and interests.  Wow!  Many, to be sure, did want to be involved with someone from an isolated small town, and so those dropped off.  So far, though, one really good one has survived and even flourished.  After three months of emails, now exchanged every day, and phone calls, now we speak most days, we are finally set to meet next week.   I will be traveling across the country to meet her.  We have sent numerous pictures of each other.  Both my therapist and a good friend are encouraging.  I will keep you posted on how naïve my current optimism turns out to be.

A number of people including some here on BPDFamily have grave concerns about long distance internet relationships.  JoannaK, who I respect greatly, is one who is quite vocal in these concerns.  Here is a relevant quote from JoannaK

About the long distance stuff...It is very easy to feel instantly intimate over the Internet.  People somehow "attach" more easily when writing vs. meeting in person.  That's the big problem...it's not real somehow, and the person you meet is very different from who you thought you were going to meet.  It is also very easy to disguise boyfriends, husbands, and the like. 

So I agree with these concerns.  First an update and then some thoughts on what I am doing about them.

The update:  The final paperwork came through on my divorce last month.  The weekend before last I traveled across the country to meet the above mentioned "long distance internet relationship" woman personally.  It went very well.  If she has boyfriends and husbands she is extremely good at hiding them.  Things were indeed a bit awkward at first, since we each were not exactly the person the other person might have pictured, but that awkwardness soon fell away.   We soon began to click like we had online and over the phone.

So whats a long distance romantic to do?  It seems to me that JoannaK identified the root of the problem but that root is not insurmountable.  The root of the problem is that you don't REALLY know a person unless you see them very frequently.  Otherwise, you fall in love with a fantasy, and as non's we all know how THAT can go. To dispel the fantasy we need to be with each other when we at our best, at our worst, how we operate every day, how we cope with stress, how emotionally mature each of us really is, etc.   This I perceive as true for all relationships, regardless of how long or short distance they are.

The solution is time: budding couples need to be together as much as possible.  So now we speak on the phone every night -- frequently for two hours or more.  Thank goodness for cell phone "unlimited nights" plans!  We will try to see each other every other weekend if possible.  That works best with my parenting plan.  The high sole expense will be plane tickets, but we will be working to keep all other expenses to near zero and even get frequent flier miles, etc. for the tickets. 

The reason, in my view, that local relationships work better than long distance relationships is that it is easier to spend the needed time together not only to access the developing relationship but to make that relationship work.  It is much harder to do this over a long distance, but I do not think it is impossible.  The key is that both people have to want to make it work.  One motivating factor in making it work, for me, is the small town problem.  I see myself as having little alternative in this small town, so I am quite motivated to make this long distance relationship work.  At this time, she appears to as well.  In a big town, it is so inexpensive and easy just to "go on to the next person on the list" that spending hard earned money to meet someone across the country just seems absurd.  But not for me.  Not in this small town.  Not yet, anyway.

So far, things still look very promising for my long distance relationship.  We have a lot of really cool stuff in common.  I think about her a lot.  I will be traveling to see her again this weekend.  Perhaps my optimism will fall away and I will back here in a short time fielding "I told you so" responses.  Right now, though, I am currently optimistic that if we both want to, we can make this work.

FuseBoy

[FuseBoy]

Since separating from my BP-trait now exW in May, I started trying to meet people online.  I reported on such in another thread quoted here:

I therefore tried a "niche" connection board of people with similar interests nationally.  It has been marvelous!  I immediately began exchanging emails with a number of women who appeared to match my demographics, values, and interests.  Wow!  Many, to be sure, did want to be involved with someone from an isolated small town, and so those dropped off.  So far, though, one really good one has survived and even flourished.  After three months of emails, now exchanged every day, and phone calls, now we speak most days, we are finally set to meet next week.   I will be traveling across the country to meet her.  We have sent numerous pictures of each other.  Both my therapist and a good friend are encouraging.  I will keep you posted on how naïve my current optimism turns out to be.

A number of people including some here on BPDFamily have grave concerns about long distance internet relationships.  JoannaK, who I respect greatly, is one who is quite vocal in these concerns.  Here is a relevant quote from JoannaK

About the long distance stuff...It is very easy to feel instantly intimate over the Internet.  People somehow "attach" more easily when writing vs. meeting in person.  That's the big problem...it's not real somehow, and the person you meet is very different from who you thought you were going to meet.  It is also very easy to disguise boyfriends, husbands, and the like. 

So I agree with these concerns.  First an update and then some thoughts on what I am doing about them.

The update:  The final paperwork came through on my divorce last month.  The weekend before last I traveled across the country to meet the above mentioned "long distance internet relationship" woman personally.  It went very well.  If she has boyfriends and husbands she is extremely good at hiding them.  Things were indeed a bit awkward at first, since we each were not exactly the person the other person might have pictured, but that awkwardness soon fell away.   We soon began to click like we had online and over the phone.

So whats a long distance romantic to do?  It seems to me that JoannaK identified the root of the problem but that root is not insurmountable.  The root of the problem is that you don't REALLY know a person unless you see them very frequently.  Otherwise, you fall in love with a fantasy, and as non's we all know how THAT can go. To dispel the fantasy we need to be with each other when we at our best, at our worst, how we operate every day, how we cope with stress, how emotionally mature each of us really is, etc.   This I perceive as true for all relationships, regardless of how long or short distance they are.

The solution is time: budding couples need to be together as much as possible.  So now we speak on the phone every night -- frequently for two hours or more.  Thank goodness for cell phone "unlimited nights" plans!  We will try to see each other every other weekend if possible.  That works best with my parenting plan.  The high sole expense will be plane tickets, but we will be working to keep all other expenses to near zero and even get frequent flier miles, etc. for the tickets. 

The reason, in my view, that local relationships work better than long distance relationships is that it is easier to spend the needed time together not only to access the developing relationship but to make that relationship work.  It is much harder to do this over a long distance, but I do not think it is impossible.  The key is that both people have to want to make it work.  One motivating factor in making it work, for me, is the small town problem.  I see myself as having little alternative in this small town, so I am quite motivated to make this long distance relationship work.  At this time, she appears to as well.  In a big town, it is so inexpensive and easy just to "go on to the next person on the list" that spending hard earned money to meet someone across the country just seems absurd.  But not for me.  Not in this small town.  Not yet, anyway.

So far, things still look very promising for my long distance relationship.  We have a lot of really cool stuff in common.  I think about her a lot.  I will be traveling to see her again this weekend.  Perhaps my optimism will fall away and I will back here in a short time fielding "I told you so" responses.  Right now, though, I am currently optimistic that if we both want to, we can make this work.

FuseBoy

[Bdawn]

Hi FuseBoy,

Glad to hear that your having fun and enjoying your LD relationship. Apparently some of these do work out and have happy endings. I have recently been thinking of the likelihood of long distance relationships being a good thing as I have an acquaintance that is currently involved in one. This guy was married for many years to one woman and they have a couple of grown children. He and his wife seperated last year and he has since been working towards reconcilliation with his wife. His wife was the only woman he had ever been with. Suddenly he meets a woman who is here visiting from somewhere and he is knocked off balance. The relationship immediately became intense and now they speak with each other on the phone for several hours everyday and he is always leaving on trips to go see her. Now just 2 months later he is considering leaving for good to go be with her. I think he is making a big big mistake! It was a sexual relationship almost immediately and it sounds as though this is a big motivating factor for this guy I know. As a Non I view people hooking other people through the use of sex as a red flag. Of all the men I have known that have suffered through bad relationships with crazy women they have almost always started out with very intense sex, but thats a whole different topic.

For myself I would never consider having a long distance relationship as they just sound so complicated to me. As you said, it can be very difficult to truly get to know someone when you don't see them on a regular basis. But thats not the only thing that bothers me about them, it is also the traveling and the sacrafices involved. I work during the week and very much look forward to my weekends to get stuff done and relax and enjoy myself. If I had to travel every weekend to visit someone, then this would greatly diminish the time I have to accomplish tasks and take care of myself and I might come to resent that. Even if the other person came to see me as often as I visited them, I would still feel as though I would have to dedicate the entire weekend to this person as they are here to see me! This would be okay in the early stages of infatuation but could become draining later on. Then eventually we would likely want the relationship to be fulltime and that means someone would have to move. Well I certainly wouldn't be willing to move away as everyone I love and care about is right here. I still have young children, I mean they are young adults now but they're still young and I still feel needed by them. My mom is here and her health is not good and I imagine that she will soon need more care and I would want to be here to help. So I would have to insist that my SO be the one to move. This may or may not be difficult for them, but if they are leaving children, family or career behind this could lead the SO to resent me down the road.

So in my opinion relationships are already hard enough without adding this extra complication. At my age most people I am likely to meet will have a slew of obligations and responsibilties to others in thier lives,(children, parents, exwives etc.) and the long distance thing would just make everything that much more difficult. If I were to look for people online I would probably only seek out those in my immediate area.

Sorry I didn't mean to be a voice of doom and gloom here. I do think it's great that you are having fun at the moment and that you have met someone that you feel connected to, but do be very cautious.

[soccerstepmom]

I believe the politically correct term is geographically challenged.

Discovery

[FuseBoy]

This part of my post will be specific to my long distance (LD) relationship.  Please, any Nookies out there in Internet land -- please feel free to address the greater LD problem and disregard the below specifics if you want.  I do feel a bit bad posting this as it somewhat betrays my confidence I have with this new LD woman.  But perhaps I am projecting here what my BP-trait exW might think.  I will be careful not to mention things too specific to protect that confidence.  One reason for posting this is to vet my own feelings and tap into the tremendous collective wisdom of BPDFamily.  I post to this "Working on US" board because this is also about "working on me" and also because I suspect that many of readers of this board have at least contemplated investigating either an Internet relationship of an LD relationship. 

Specifics to FuseBoy's case:

Red flags or items that might be interpreted as red flags to this group

We became very close during our first meeting.  I will just leave it at that.

Although we have discussed it peripherally, I am still not very clear on why she could not meet somebody local to her.

She confessed very strong emotions for me even before we met, based just on our emails and phone calls.

She discussed me with her 8 year old daughter even before we met.  She discusses almost everything with her daughter and so this was just quite natural for her.  She thinks about me and so I come up in conversation.  She says she respects that I am being more cautious in, so far, not discussing her with my daughter as yet. 

Green flags or items that might be interpreted as green flags

We have a lot of interests in common.  Probably much more in common than anyone I could likely find locally in this remote small town of my age group.   I consider myself quite geographically challenged.   Many older people here never find a new mate.  Previously, I have looked through the local Yahoo Personals available within 100 miles of my small town and find only a handful of women, and they just don't seem to have both similar values and demographics.  They just don't exist here.  My religious beliefs and career are not mainstream, but not bizarre either (nor immoral).  This is not a big city where you find someone with a little bit of everything.  Contacting almost any of the women I see listed would seem to me forced and contrived.  My bet is that they would reject me even sooner than I would them.  And I would respect them for it.

She is willing to discuss the possibility of having another child, something that is a life goal for me in my mid-forties.  I feel a bit cheated by my BP-trait exW out of a larger family, and I want to get that back before I get too old.  In a few years I will consider myself too old.  I realize it may be too late already.  I have such a good time being a dad to my 4yo daughter that I want to be a dad again.  (Red flag against me?)

She seems to get my unusual sense of humor.   We laugh together often.

We both appear to be at the same stage in life.  We both have one child and are looking for a good parent to complete the "mom and dad" nuclear family set.   She is a widow and so has full custody of her daughter, while I have 50/50 joint custody of mine.

From what I can tell, she appears to be quite emotionally mature.  I am frequently floored by how empathic she is (appears to be?), especially compared to my BP-trait exW.  I love her empathy.  She does not appear to me to be BP, or have any personality disorder, and I sure am looking for it.

She appears to be a very good mother to her daughter.  Her daughter appears to be a very well adjusted and happy little girl.

She appears to me to be quite honest and straightforward.  I have never yet caught her in a lie, nor do I suspect that she has ever lied to me.  I pride myself on my own honesty, but I am not perfect.  She appears to be even more honest than me. 

She appears to appreciate me for who I am.  I try again and again just to speak my mind with her, not walking on eggshells at all, and just about every time she responds positively. 

She appears willing to move to be near me, if our relationship ever comes to that.  The "willing to relocate" clause was posted to her internet profile even before we exchanged our first email.   She has relatively little family in her present location, and her volunteer work appears to be relocate-able. 

We have encountered several problems and appear able to "problem solve" well together.  Our mantra is that we are "a team." I REALLY like that.  Currently, problem solving with her is more like empathetic idea sharing than the manipulative power grab that my BP-trait exW appeared to me to play.   She has yet to portray herself as a victim.  BP-trait exW was so good at that I began to think of BP-trait exW as a gifted artist in that category.   Conversely, this woman appears to work hard to factor my feelings into our decision making process, even when I try to discount them. 

We have had several disagreements, almost arguments, and we have talked them out at length and come to a resolution agreeable to both of us.  I think we communicate as well as I have with any girlfriend I have ever had, certainly much better than my BP-trait exW.

She appears, at this point, to be willing to work to make our relationship work.  So am I.  And LD relationships appear to need that to have any chance at being successful. 

So that's where I am.  Geographically challenged and trying to solve it with the dreaded and ill-advised long-distance relationship.   I solicit good advice.  Am I making a mistake?  Only one?

FuseBoy

[Haggis]

She is a widow

Big red flag there no?  

Haggis

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT The objective of this board is to learn and apply healthy emotional practices to the rebuilding of our love life. This board is about the discipline and strength of making those hard choices in life for good sustained emotional health. It is about not repeating the problems of the past; it is about understanding the wounds and baggage we carry forward, it is about healthy and practical ways to build new relationships. Click on "more information" for access to the lessons.

[FuseBoy]

She is a widow

Big red flag there no?

Yah.  She really gets turned on when I talk about life insurance.   :-*

[JoannaK]

Hey FuseBoy...

I don't mean to say that long distance relationships never work out... but they are trickier.  Also, people can say whatever they want...until you see them time and time again over weeks and months you really don't know who they are.  How can you tell if she is lying or not?  You don't know her well enough yet. 

About your red flags... the "instant" intimacy is very typical due to the intensity of meeting someone through the Internet.  It's easy to develop feelings before you meet someone.  That doesn't mean that the feelings are false, just that you (and she) need to be wary.

The biggest red flag is that she discusses you with her daughter.  Her daughter recently lost her dad?  If so, the girl is very vulnerable.  And her mom doesn't know you well enough yet to determine if you are going to be a part of her daughter's life.  My son didn't meet my bf until I was dating him for six months!  I didn't talk about him for about 4-5 months.  Perhaps I was being overly cautious, but I didn't want my son to meet someone and lose that person a little later. 

Also, a person shouldn't be discussing their dating partners with their children... maybe she's not exactly doing this, but could the woman be a bit too needy and lonely?  It would make sense that she is lonely if she lost her husband, but does she have other friends in her area that she can talk things over with?  If not, I'd be concerned. 

About your desire for another child...That should be on the table early on.  If this is important to you, you don't want to find yourself involved with someone who doesn't want any more kids.  Are you sure this woman really wants another kid and isn't just saying this to keep you interested?  (Remember that just because someone says something in the early days of a relationship, it doesn't mean it is so.)  I was too old to have another kid, and I didn't even want to bother with men who wanted a child or more children.

The relocating thing is good and bad...  Why doesn't she have any connections in the place she is now in?  Perhaps she is just the type who likes to live in different places.  Or maybe there are just too many painful memories about her deceased spouse?  I knew that I wasn't interested in relocating as my life is here, in the Chicago area.  So... it's good that she would be interested in relocating, but it is something to question a bit.

So...good luck, Fuse Boy...just take things slowly!  Try to see her in casual situations... remember that long distance rendezvous are too much like  vacations...they aren't real life.

[FuseBoy]

Hey thanks JoannaK and everyone for responding.  Reading back, my response to Haggis might be considered aggressive but it didn't feel that way when I typed it.  I was just playing up his joke.   It is important for me to think these things through as thoroughly as possible, so I will respond as best I can below.

The biggest red flag is that she discusses you with her daughter.  Her daughter recently lost her dad?

The dad died about seven years ago, when the daughter was about one or two years old.  I am not sure if the daughter remembers her dad.  I think it was advice I heard right here on this board, perhaps from JoannaK herself, that one should not introduce a dating partner to a child early on.   I am holding to that myself so far, even though my LD GF and I have been corresponding for 4 months now.  In my case, my 4 yo daughter still appears to hold hope that me and her BP-trait mom will get back together.  I therefore am being particularly careful of not trampling on my daughter's emotions.  LD GF doesn't have this problem.  I think her daughter actually wants her mom to meet someone.

Also, a person shouldn't be discussing their dating partners with their children... maybe she's not exactly doing this, but could the woman be a bit too needy and lonely?

I am reluctant to criticize her because I like her so much.  But my feeling is that she does discuss her dating partners with her kid, so maybe she is needy and/or lonely.  She seems much more lonely to me than needy, to be honest.  We have discussed this, and she doesn't seem to think that there is much wrong with discussing love interests with her daughter.  She wants to be open and honest with her child.  She would describe that as her style. 

About your desire for another child...That should be on the table early on.

Yes.  Sometimes I feel like such a lecherous old jerk for wanting another child now.  And many women appear to respond to me like that.  But I can't help in wanting another child.  I really do.  Perhaps I'll play the old lecher for a few years and then give up.  I included this desire in my own online profile, though, so it should not come as a surprise.  We have discussed it, too.  I respond only to women who stated that more children were at least a possibility in their profile.  Again, even before we met she checked that box in her profile.

The relocating thing is good and bad...  Why doesn't she have any connections in the place she is now in?

She does have some.  It's a catch-22, though.  It seems unfair to search only for women with profiles indicating a willingness to relocate and then consider the desire for relocation a red flag.  Perhaps I need to look further into WHY she might be willing to relocate.  She does appear to have several friends, but again that's a catch-22.  If she had oodles and oodles of really close friends and relatives, she would not have checked the "willing to consider relocation" box and we never would have met.

I guess the same type of catch-22 could apply to why some people are single.  Ideally, I should search for a happily married woman as the psychological ideal mate -- except that she's married already.  So if she's not married -- why not -- what is wrong with her?  Maybe there is a good reason but if I consider being single by itself as a red flag then I should just give up now.  Does that make sense? 

Well it's been really useful thinking some of this through with y'all (yet again).  I agree that long distance relationships are harder than short distance ones.  And a big part of the problem is assessing long-term potential.  Still, I am now aware of this and I am working hard on making sure there is as good a chance for assessment of each other as reasonably possible.  Perhaps this might lead either of us to the conclusion that we are not for each other.  But right now it does not look that way.  Right now I feel lucky to have found her. 

FuseBoy

[Haggis]

Reading back, my response to Haggis might be considered aggressive but it didn't feel that way when I typed it.?  I was just playing up his joke.?  ?

You must have heard what happened to the last poster that crossed me... :-X

No worries FB - I got the joke.

Take care & good luck,

Haggis

[MoGlo]

Okay, I'll admit it - I'm not a huge fan of long distance relationships.  I've not had the best of luck with them and will admit that my own hesitance has been a large part of the problem.  My biggest drawback is having three brothers who have no problems being straight with me about some of the stuff they've encountered or had happen to friends - and some of it's ugly.

Couples, even would-be couples, need regular interaction through more than phone calls and emails.  You can be anyone you want on the phone and the internet, people do it all the time.  We've all heard stories about guys calling the 900 numbers to talk to "Kimberly" the petite redhead who's looking for a man, only to find out that s/he's actually a large male transvestite (also looking for a man).  People post and provide photos of themselves in their "skinny" days or before they lost all their hair.  They neglect to mention that teeny little issue of the sex change operation.  Some get friends to write for them or groups of people join together  and lead some poor soul on.  Sometimes it's waaaaaay down the line when you have a lot invested emotionally before you figure out what's going on.  It happens every day.

Then there is the whole timing issue.  What happens when you're frightfully busy and can't call or email?  They think you're distant or uncaring.  They call on a really bad day or (heaven help us) on several bad days?  You're unstable.  They always seem to call on those really good days?  You're giddy or never have a bad day.  You really just need to be held right now?  We'll get around to that ... one day.

I guess what I'm saying is that to me a long distance relationship is very much like BPDFamily.  You get snapshots of their life, the parts they choose to show you or the parts that are just very visible at that moment in time.  Basing life choices on that little piece of someone's life just strikes me as somewhat irresponsible and demanding of another person.  It's far too easy to have expectations that the other person has no clue are out there, and people get hurt very badly as a result.

You could meet this woman and realize that the feel of her skin just puts you off or that she has halitosis that would peel paint off the wall or even that freckles creep you out and she gets them all over whenever she goes out in the daylight.  The possibilities are endless and you cannot predict your ultimate chemical reaction to her. :-\

Take your time, take LOTS of time and as much as you need to feel comfortable.  You cannot take enough time when deciding on a life partner, whether in person or through other means of communication.  Don't let anyone rush you into anything you don't feel comfortable with for whatever reason.  There may not even be a "reason" just a feeling that tells you to wait.  Listen to that feeling, at least sometimes.  It just might save your life one day.

[Pennywise]

The BPD hell I am in stemmed from a LDR.  Now I am stuck half a world away from home and unabled to go home because of my Dd.  But, would I give a LDR another try?  Yes.  BUT, I would be very careful.  It's just way too easy to get caught up with the whole idea of the person you have created within your own mind (and heart).  You, whether you realise or not, tend to project your dreams onto them.  The irregular contact intensifies it.  You get an impression of who they are from email or phone conversations and each characteristic you pick up on you add onto your little 'dream' character.  They are this, they are that, etc  So you piece together who you think they really are based on that contact, and you fool yourself into thinking they are just like that - that the picture of them inside of you is who they really are.  But you can't know someone based on broken data.  And irregular contact in a relationship means you are just receiving broken data.  You just can't build something lasting with broken pieces.  It will not work.

That said, you need to turn irregular contact into regular contact fairly quickly after you think there is potential.  And then see where is goes.  But keep it slow.  If she is "the one" she will still be "the one" a little further down the road.

*sigh*  I wish I could go back into the past and give myself the same advice... would have saved a lot of pain...

[soccerstepmom]

Hi FuseBoy,

You've met her. You've spent some time with her. You're better able to assess all those variables (haliotosis, freckles, piercings, baldness, creepy eyebrow tick, etc) than ANYBODY HERE. Right?

I'd have to say that all the very legitimate causes for concern in getting involved with somebody you've not met, and for whom you develop trust based only on an epistolary exchange, also apply to deciding whether you are ok with a relationship with somebody who you actually have met, based on the opinion of people who have not met this person (contrary to you), and whose advice is being given to you over the net.

In other words, FuseBoy, the same considerations that would apply to being prudent getting to know somebody on the net should apply to how you weigh advice given by people over the net.

We hear about "globalization" every day. More and more people travel for work, and there are many cases where people very legitimately fall in love, and form healthy relationships, yet find themselves "geographically challenged" for a time. I think it's hardly a perversion. In WWII, many soldiers found their brides overseas, and although they might have struggled to reduce the geographic divide for a little while, these couples did manage to get together and establish normal, happy families and long, healthy marriages.

Once you interact with somebody, for real, I think you are entitled to trust your judgment.

But then again, I am just an anonymous member of BPDFamily, and I've never met you, nor your friend...

I wish you luck.

Discovery

[JoannaK]

Discovery, I agree with you in that some LDR's do work.  And that FuseBoy knows this woman and the rest of us do not.

But the point of being here, if we had a chosen relationship with a BPD person, is that  is that we made a bad choice.  So we can't and shouldn't trust ourselves completely when we start a new relationship.  If FuseBoy had made a good decision with his exw, he wouldn't be here posting now. 

So, yep, all of us "working on ourselves" types who are dating know the new person while the rest of us don't.  But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't get some objective, anonymous opinions.  We don't have great track records.

And I don't think that anyone said to FuseBoy that he should break up with this woman...everyone just said "LDR's can be very tricky.  Be careful."

[soccerstepmom]

And I don't think that anyone said to FuseBoy that he should break up with this woman...everyone just said "LDR's can be very tricky.?  Be careful."

Hi JoannaK,

I sure hope I did not suggest that anyone on this thread had said that FuseBoy should break up...I certainly didn't get that from the thread, and it would be unfortunate if that was the impression my post gave. If it is the case, I assure you it was unwitting.

Actually, I was simply commenting on what seemed like an interesting symmetry between developing trust in a person on the net and falling in love, and, well, developing trust in people, a community, on the net and asking that internet community for advice about a now real relationship begun on internet...

I seek and value opinions of people here almost every day, so I'd certainly not be the one to demean the objective and anonymous insights to be found here.

I was simply offering another perspective-- but not one I thought was wholly inconsistent with the opinions voiced before.

Discovery

[FuseBoy]

Thanks again, Discovery, MoGlow, JoannaK, justagirl & everyone,

Well I am back from our second long weekend together and … things have never been better.  I understand that this is not uncommon in LDRs as meetings are more like fantasy vacations than how everyday life would be.  On the other hand, vacations are not even this good!  My therapist (and friends) says to enjoy it but "don't get married."  Still, there are increasing implications of long term commitments that come out.  I am not a "playboy" at heart.

The current deal is that we meet every other weekend.  This is because my parenting plan permits me to travel for an extended weekend every other weekend.  We now speak every night, almost always for over an hour, sometimes for two or more.  If this is a fantasy then it is one hell of a fantasy. 

Assessment.  In my view, it all comes down to assessment.  For a relationship to survive, each person has to have the ability to assess who the other person really is, and how they will fit together with that core person in the long run.   Now LDRs are harder to assess than nearby relationships because each person sees the other so infrequently.  To make matters worse, (chosen married) non's already have a bad track record with assessment as they have already poorly assessed the core nature of their last spouse before marrying them.  So, in sum, nons in LDRs are assessment-challenged people choosing a relationship that is already a challenge to assess. 

What to do?  I am focusing on what assessment I can do.  In sum, I am focusing on "more assessment", "better assessment", and "independent assessment."  In the "more assessment" category, we try to meet and talk as much as possible so there is as much interaction time to assess as possible.  It's no trouble -- speaking with her is the highlight of my day. 

In the "better assessment" category, I look more closely for personality flaws than last time -- I have more experience now.  I look for red flags, yellow flags, and even green flags that indicate good mental health.  I speak with family, friends, and my therapist about her, sometimes bringing up assessment issues.   I try to see how she interacts with her friends, family, and daughter, and even acquaintances, independently from me.

So far, she (and "us") looks really good to me.  Yes, there are red, yellow, and green flags all over the place, but on the whole I think she is mentally healthy.  But am I seeing things clearly?  So in the "independent assessment" category, I have asked my therapist to meet with her when she is here.  My family will likely meet her in a month or two.  Some members of my family confessed to me worries about my BP-trait exW before we married, but I went right through those red lights.  They could tell something was off with her even then.  I will listen to them very carefully this time.

So I persevere.  Very happily, too, just now.  If this is an illusion it is quite possibly the best one I have ever had.  Who needs reality?  I understand that there are no guarantees.   Can you image the assessment that Prince Charles and his court must have put Princess Diana through before they married?  It must have been extreme.  And, from what I read, she turned out BPD.  So you can't really know.  This is not an exact science.  People are complex.  Relationships are complex.  I think that we should do our very best not to make mistakes, but that we should forgive ourselves for mistakes we do make.

FuseBoy

[Pagancat]

Hi Fuseboy.

Since youre asking for advice, I thought Id chime in.?  I met my husband seven years ago through a chat room on AOL.?  We chatted for 6 weeks, he flew me to his city.?  We “became very close during our fist meeting”, too .?  A month later, he took me on a vacation for 10 days to Hawaii.?  We talked on the computer and by phone constantly.?  I went down and spent a few more weeks at his house.?  He asked me to move in with him and 3 months later I left my job, my family and my hometown to move 400 miles to be with him.?  I was never an impulsive person.?  I had worked the same job for 12 years. I didnt go from boyfriend to boyfriend or anything like that. I was married when I was very young (Im 44 now), but I had been divorced for 10 years before I met my current husband. I wasnt desperately searching for a partner; I didnt think Id get married again.?  I dated and had boyfriends but searching for a permanent partner wasnt a driving force in my life.?  I just happened to run into hubby in chat room talking about books! We started talking, he wrote me an e-mail, we hit off, etc. etc.!

Fast forward a couple of years and were married.?  We founded together, and then sold a company which left us sitting pretty good in the world.?  Were semi-retired, madly in love, extremely happy even with the normal ups and downs that life can hand you like the medical problems hubby had last year.?  Hes my best friend.?  I love him so much sometimes Im just in awe of it all. My family back home loves him.?  I cant imagine what my life would be like if I hadnt met him and taken a big huge chance by moving to be with him.?  Honestly, sometimes I feel like Cinderella even if I do hate in when he leaves his dirty socks on the floor! Life is wonderful.

So it can happen.?  Sometimes you just have to take a chance.?  Life is often a leap of faith and you just have to jump…

Sometimes you fall on your face, of course, but that doesnt mean you cant get back up.

That having been said, I think its really, really important to make sure your ready for a relationship.?  I would be really leery of jumping in too soon after your divorce.?  I enjoyed being by myself and really liked the person I became after spending time alone after my divorce.?  I recovered, I learned, I discovered myself, I healed from the bad times.?  

From your postings in this topic it seems like you might be comparing your new friend against your ex-wife to make sure shes not BPD, doesnt send up any red flags, etc.?  This is very, very natural, but maybe its not the best way to start a long-term relationship.?  I cant imagine what my reaction would be if my husband had asked me to meet with his therapist as a prerequisite to deciding about having a relationship with me.?  Im not sure Im expressing myself well, and I certainly wouldnt want to offend you, but your criterion seems like it might be focused too much on how she measures up compared to your XBPD wife and your bad marriage.?  Maybe you need a little time to heal and before you get too seriously involved with anybody?  Does she seem like the best person for you, or does she just seem like the best person compared to your ex-wife?

Anybody looked good to me compared to my ex-husband and it wasnt until after a while that I realized that my bad marriage wasnt a great yardstick to measure other new relationships against.?  ? An armed robber looks good compared to an axe murderer, but its the comparison thats driving the judgment.?  Not that my ex-husband or your ex-wife is an axe murderer, or your new friend is an armed robber, but I think you get my point. Past experiences help determine choices in life, but I think that time has to pass and experiences have to mellow sometimes to be really valuable.

Just food for thought.?  Also, I am sure relationships are much, much more complicated when there are children involved.?  I cant give advice about that. My husband and I didnt have any children to consider.?  But if I did, Im pretty sure I wouldnt have jumped in as quickly as I did. Good luck and have fun, too.