Oh please dear lord help me

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

(Please don't judge the following due to spelling mistakes.  I'm trying to get my thoughts out and I'm sorry for rambling)

Hi,

Nope - guess I really should not be on the "Committed to working on it" board.  Not anymore.

Now the pain is really going to start and there are so many details to it.

I would like to share all the details but this would become a book nearly as large as the bible itself.  Yet, I still feel pressured to grind every detail out because my wife has been so insitent, over the years, on making me grind every detail right to the nub.

Bottom line is that I am not allowed to see my 5 month old baby.  I guess if I would have agreed to her terms, right from the start of our conversation today, that I could.  Now it's too late.

Her terms:

1 . I don't want him anywhere near your mother

First off, I haven't talked to my mother in over a year.  That was once when the wife and I had a fight.  Secondly, I did not want to agree to these terms.  As the conversation moved along, as much as I wanted to stand my ground, I asked her to be okay with me saying "For now, he will not be anywhere near my mother"

Not good enough.  Can't trust me because I lie all the time.

Which leads us to her other term,

2. Supervised visitation.

I was welcome to come there to see him.  Over to the house where we could argue some more about whether she is rational in her thinking.

Finally angered I said "Fine - I will come there and visit him.  (Of course, due to frustration there were a few more adjectives to this sentence)

She hung up and I'm not seeing him I guess.

After all, I am a threat to this child.  Apparently I beat my own children who are now 13 and 16.

My view:  I never beat them.  Never once where they bruised.  Sure, there were times that they were punished.  Once I even took the belt out and my son took a couple of swats on the butt.  Why?  After doing a vanishing act five times where we had to look for him 3 hours and kept finding him further and further away from our home I made him a promise.  I told him if he ever did that again that I was going to take out the belt.  Keep in mind that I tried everything else.  I tried explaining why he had to tell us where he was.  I gave him all different angles and reasons.  Still he kept doing this.  So I felt I really needed to get leverage on him.  I told him he would get the belt if he did this again.  Period.

Yup, it happened again.  This time, after 3 hours of searching for him, we call the police.  Why, 'cause we can not find him anywhere.

The police find him.  A very long way from home.  They bring him home in their car.  As they pull up he has a huge smile on his face.  He's all happy and now, being far away from home, making his parents sick and ignoring my threat, he has been rewarded!  NO WAY MAN!

You bet, I gave him a couple of swats with the belt.  He cried and I'm sure it hurt.  Truth told, it hurt me too.  But I was exhausted!

The story ends like this:  He never, ever went anywhere again without telling us.  I view this a succesful as he has never been abducted.  This was my goal.

My BPD wifes version of this story is a little simpler.  I BEAT HIM!  This is evidenced by the way he is afraid of me.  You see sometimes, when his behaviour is less than acceptable, I will give him a look.  Is he afraid?  You bet he is.  Later I can say "come here my little man"  Is he afraid?  Nope.

... but I beat him.  Perhaps you all think I beat him.  Maybe you do.

My opinion:  Many children are completely undisciplined due to the "Spare the rod" rule.  Sure, there are and were parents who did beat their children to the point that it was unreasonable.  Now things have gotten so out of hand that children can't be spanked.  I think it has created a bunch of disrespectful young adults in our society.

I was spanked.  Many of my friends were spanked.  And we all had a couple of spankings that we really remembered.  We never forgot them.  I guarantee you though we quickly learned about consequence.  This is something many young adults don't know about.  Let me say it again "Consequence".

And this breeds another monster "Responsibility".  Most people today point the finger somewhere else.  It's not there fault, it's someone elses fault.

Let's see if everyone thinks I'm rational here.

Yup, my wife has BPD.  I think the things she has done to me are my fault.  Why?  Because I made the decision to be with her. I ignored all the red flags and moved forward.  I accept responsibilty for making this decision.

"It's in your moments of decision that your destiny is shaped"  Now I sound like an infomercial... but it's true.

I can't see my son and that is the consequence of being married to someone who can not think rationally.

I hurt inside.  If I could go back in time I would do things completely different.

Not being with her would mean no little beautiful baby.  It's hard to imagine that, but look what I have done to this innocent little boy now!

I'm so sorry god!

Please forgive me.

EN (*No longer felling so easy and for sure a little queasy)

[EasyNow]

(Please don't judge the following due to spelling mistakes.  I'm trying to get my thoughts out and I'm sorry for rambling)

Hi,

Nope - guess I really should not be on the "Committed to working on it" board.  Not anymore.

Now the pain is really going to start and there are so many details to it.

I would like to share all the details but this would become a book nearly as large as the bible itself.  Yet, I still feel pressured to grind every detail out because my wife has been so insitent, over the years, on making me grind every detail right to the nub.

Bottom line is that I am not allowed to see my 5 month old baby.  I guess if I would have agreed to her terms, right from the start of our conversation today, that I could.  Now it's too late.

Her terms:

1 . I don't want him anywhere near your mother

First off, I haven't talked to my mother in over a year.  That was once when the wife and I had a fight.  Secondly, I did not want to agree to these terms.  As the conversation moved along, as much as I wanted to stand my ground, I asked her to be okay with me saying "For now, he will not be anywhere near my mother"

Not good enough.  Can't trust me because I lie all the time.

Which leads us to her other term,

2. Supervised visitation.

I was welcome to come there to see him.  Over to the house where we could argue some more about whether she is rational in her thinking.

Finally angered I said "Fine - I will come there and visit him.  (Of course, due to frustration there were a few more adjectives to this sentence)

She hung up and I'm not seeing him I guess.

After all, I am a threat to this child.  Apparently I beat my own children who are now 13 and 16.

My view:  I never beat them.  Never once where they bruised.  Sure, there were times that they were punished.  Once I even took the belt out and my son took a couple of swats on the butt.  Why?  After doing a vanishing act five times where we had to look for him 3 hours and kept finding him further and further away from our home I made him a promise.  I told him if he ever did that again that I was going to take out the belt.  Keep in mind that I tried everything else.  I tried explaining why he had to tell us where he was.  I gave him all different angles and reasons.  Still he kept doing this.  So I felt I really needed to get leverage on him.  I told him he would get the belt if he did this again.  Period.

Yup, it happened again.  This time, after 3 hours of searching for him, we call the police.  Why, 'cause we can not find him anywhere.

The police find him.  A very long way from home.  They bring him home in their car.  As they pull up he has a huge smile on his face.  He's all happy and now, being far away from home, making his parents sick and ignoring my threat, he has been rewarded!  NO WAY MAN!

You bet, I gave him a couple of swats with the belt.  He cried and I'm sure it hurt.  Truth told, it hurt me too.  But I was exhausted!

The story ends like this:  He never, ever went anywhere again without telling us.  I view this a succesful as he has never been abducted.  This was my goal.

My BPD wifes version of this story is a little simpler.  I BEAT HIM!  This is evidenced by the way he is afraid of me.  You see sometimes, when his behaviour is less than acceptable, I will give him a look.  Is he afraid?  You bet he is.  Later I can say "come here my little man"  Is he afraid?  Nope.

... but I beat him.  Perhaps you all think I beat him.  Maybe you do.

My opinion:  Many children are completely undisciplined due to the "Spare the rod" rule.  Sure, there are and were parents who did beat their children to the point that it was unreasonable.  Now things have gotten so out of hand that children can't be spanked.  I think it has created a bunch of disrespectful young adults in our society.

I was spanked.  Many of my friends were spanked.  And we all had a couple of spankings that we really remembered.  We never forgot them.  I guarantee you though we quickly learned about consequence.  This is something many young adults don't know about.  Let me say it again "Consequence".

And this breeds another monster "Responsibility".  Most people today point the finger somewhere else.  It's not there fault, it's someone elses fault.

Let's see if everyone thinks I'm rational here.

Yup, my wife has BPD.  I think the things she has done to me are my fault.  Why?  Because I made the decision to be with her. I ignored all the red flags and moved forward.  I accept responsibilty for making this decision.

"It's in your moments of decision that your destiny is shaped"  Now I sound like an infomercial... but it's true.

I can't see my son and that is the consequence of being married to someone who can not think rationally.

I hurt inside.  If I could go back in time I would do things completely different.

Not being with her would mean no little beautiful baby.  It's hard to imagine that, but look what I have done to this innocent little boy now!

I'm so sorry god!

Please forgive me.

EN (*No longer felling so easy and for sure a little queasy)

[djbett]

Hi EN,

Sorry about the situation with your young son... sounds like you really need to be talking to a lawyer about your rights!

About the spanking thing... lots of mixed feelings on this.  In my opinion... you seemed to be over explaining yourself about the spanking... is that because you feel guilty about it, because it was more than you say it was... or because your w has made you feel guilty/question yourself.. or some other reason? 

I honestly do not have anything against spanking as long as it's more of a last resort for dangerous things... and given with care so as to not really injure the child.  Every child is different... some you can give a stern look to or speak harsh to or ground and that would be horrible to them... others may need a spank to get them to know you are serious.  What your son did was dangerous and you tried other things first... I don't think what you did was wrong. 

Now on the other hand... your wife denying you visits with your son or making you have the visits there... that is wrong!  She is trying to control you.  If she really had some concerns about safety of your son.. why would she want you there with him?  I'd want someone else to supervise to keep him safe and so I wouldn't have to be alone with the dangerous person!

Don't dwell on the spanking incident... work on getting rights to see your son!

Debbie

[EasyNow]

Debbie,

Thanks, I guess I should have waited a while prior to posting.  I posted this right after my conversation with my wife.  It was still fresh in my mind and those were things that I really wanted to say to her but inside, knew it was just a waste of time.

I was in absolute shock when she inferred that I beat my children!

It's funny that you mention someone else being there because I presented that as an option.  I went on to say anyone of your choice.  She told me that she trusts nobody.

Yup, contol thing alright.

I will not be controlled!  Never again!

My mother has her issues but is not a threat to my children either.

That is how this whole thing started.  I wasn't allowed to see my mother and not allowed to see my daughter.

Guess what, now I see my daughter, and my oldest son.  The sacrafice was my little baby boy.

She is simply using my little boy as leverage.

EN

[brucey]

Slow down.  Breathe.  Think carefully.  You are in a tough situation and need help.  You need to relax, face the options, and get some advice.  Keep posting and telling us what is going on and how you feel.  But seek out help beyond BPDFamily.  Good luck.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[djbett]

Thanks, I guess I should have waited a while prior to posting.  I posted this right after my conversation with my wife.  It was still fresh in my mind and those were things that I really wanted to say to her but inside, knew it was just a waste of time.

I kinda wondered about that... It seemed that you were worked up about it ... I figured it was because of what your wife said!  It's okay to rant here and get that stuff out! 

She is simply using my little boy as leverage.

  Very true and very sad!  Don't let her get away with this!  Go see a lawyer to help you with your rights to your son!

My ex tried many ways to keep me from my older kids and my family... that was something that wasn't going to happen!  I'm a door matt for many things... but you can not keep me from my family!  We had many battles on this topic!  I do have some guilt and I didn't do as much with them or for them because of my ex... that is something that won't ever happen again!

Debbie

[JoannaK]

If you wish to see your son, you must get legal help and a legal opinion.  Perhaps two or three opinions.  If she is telling you that you can't see him, you have no other choice but to get something in writing.  That may mean the end of the marriaage, which sounds like it would be a good idea actually.

You won't get anywhere (obviously) by trying to negotiate with her.  An attorney can tell you if the disciplining of your older son sounds like abuse. 

It's time to get your life in order, Easynow. 

[EasyNow]

Thanks all,

There is so much more that is not covered here that makes things extremely messy.

For one to review my history of posts you might get a small idea.

The bottom line is she has more than one thing to use as leverage right now.

I will see my son tomorrow for a short time as she is retreating a bit.  I hope this is not the front end of a re-engagement.


djbett,

It's funny how you mention the guilt as this is a strong feeling that I always have.  Through manipulation she would keep me away from my older children and then paint it as though I was free to see them, but I elected not to.

Sure, free to see them and then have to take grief from her.

Ie. 

She caught me chatting with my daughter on MSN one day.  This is how the short conversation went.

BPD - "Your daughter is just kissing your *ss"

MY RESPONSE - "She doesn't have to kiss my *ss!  She's my daughter"

Looking at that now I just can't seem to grasp how someone could say such an irrational thing.

EN

[djbett]

Awww yes, the guilt factor... something I'm working very hard on.  I feel guilty for everything... even things I have no control over.  So my ex used that a lot!  I'm learning to stand up for myself and not feel guilty about it.  My ex was great a manipulating the situation to keep me from my family so much... it's just mean and selfish!

I haven't had time to read through your past posts... if you have some issues in the past.. do something to work on them... take care of your life and take care of your kids!  That's what's important!

Debbie