What do they say about previous break-ups?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

My BPDxbf has had 4 LTRs prior to me, including one marriage to a woman I know he loved very much (she was number 2).?  He told me (and I know his family) that he left her because she cheated on him. He was never clear about why the others didn't work out, and I never really asked. I know the last one (number 4) before me was not at all a serious relationship, but I'm still not sure about the other two.?  Number 3 did get a restraining order on him, after he was arrested for DV.?  The first g/f, I know, also had him arrested for DV but charges were dropped.

I'm just curious to know if they ever tell the truth about why previous relationships failed.?  Do they ever hold themselves accountable?  Or do they evade the question and give vague answers?  Or do they most often blame the other party, even if they have to make up some kind of lie - and if so, do they truly believe it was the other person?

[goochiegirl]

My BPDxbf has had 4 LTRs prior to me, including one marriage to a woman I know he loved very much (she was number 2).?  He told me (and I know his family) that he left her because she cheated on him. He was never clear about why the others didn't work out, and I never really asked. I know the last one (number 4) before me was not at all a serious relationship, but I'm still not sure about the other two.?  Number 3 did get a restraining order on him, after he was arrested for DV.?  The first g/f, I know, also had him arrested for DV but charges were dropped.

I'm just curious to know if they ever tell the truth about why previous relationships failed.?  Do they ever hold themselves accountable?  Or do they evade the question and give vague answers?  Or do they most often blame the other party, even if they have to make up some kind of lie - and if so, do they truly believe it was the other person?

[JPS]

The other party is blamed, there is no accountability. In fact, in her eyes I'm now just about the exact story as the previous one. Made her live hell... The one before that, she just never really wanted him. And the one before that, she was (is, legal stuff) married to. He beat the crap out of her, according to her. And forced her into working in a champagnebar...

On several occasions I did expres my concerns, about her starting to have the same opinion about me as the previous guy. Didn't help...
Also, I'm not very sure anymore about the story with the guy she married. He himself also tried to commit suicide once, while with her. And while I would never do it, I know she can give someone with a weaker sense of self or whatever plenty of reasons to beat her up. And when he left, he just vanished, and was never seen again...

The stories weren't vague. But she might have planted them in her memory. Just like she is doing with me now. Difference is, the other guys bought it and went down the deep end, and I'm not buying it, just accepting it as her point of view.

[karategrrl]

Talk about a red flag...My ex and I had a huge discussion about her ex's and mine...She told me (one by one) the reasons she was with them...I should have paid more attention. The only one she really Loved was her first relationship...The rest were reasons like...They persued her and she was lonley, so she went along with it...They were very insistant and she felt forced to go along with it...I was her longest relationship lasting 6 1/2 years...The rest never lasted more then a year...DUH! I should have walked away sooner... She said that she never wanted to be with them, it just happened... The other thing was when I was pregnant, she met "her soul mate" online and I should have understood why she was leaving me...I should have understood because I knew her past relationships and knew she never felt this way about anyone else EVER... Of course, nothing ever came of her " soul mate" because the online person refused to exchange any personal information...

[passionfruit167]

It is always the other persons fault. Exbpnbf has been married three times. With each one, she had an affair, she tried to kill him, something else. He never took ANY responsibility for the relationship at all. I did wonder how he couldn't see his part in it when he told me he didn't love any of them. He was in lust with wife #1 (by the way I was supposed to be wife #1, he dumped me 4 months before the wedding). Wife #2 was a business deal (she is the one who tried to kill him) and wife #3 was a whore who had affair after affair according to him.

They lie like water it flows and flows. You are now the bad guy, and your break-up will be your fault when he talks to his new target.

P.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[mark]

Why believe anything they say about past relationships?  If they never expressed any responsibility for the negative outcomes, how can they be trusted about any of it?  There was some former spouse or someone that they "really loved"?  That's what they told you.  Do you really think they acted out of love toward those persons? 

[lisastpaul]

BPDH told me that... every woman he has ever been with broke up with him.. ( I met him when he was 28).. that he wanted to marry EVERY one of them (huh?).. that he cheated on every one of them..

HUGE RED FLAGS, eh?

But, we were already married, and I was 5 months pregnant, just as he had worked so very hard to achieve...(I was reluctant, insisted on protection, but that one fateful evening, his beautiful soliloquy about how we needed to get started since I was 34, we wanted 3-4 kids, etc etc  ;==) I was trapped, and that's just what he wanted.. But I, too, left him.

[bronwen]

My BPDH only had a couple of serious relationships before me.  One was with an attorney who he told me was always too busy to be with him.  The next one he deemed  "psycho girl".  He actually refered to a couple of girls he dated that way.

What is interesting is that the very reasons he stated for being profoundly unhappy with the attorney/girlfriend (workaholic etc) are the EXACT opposite reasons he has a problem with me (quit my job to stay home with the baby).  Quitting my job has haunted me daily since I did it (with his blessing although he forgets that part).

The very things that, early in our relationship, he claimed to admire and require in women he involved himself with (independence, emotional strength etc.) are the same things he hated about them. 

[BrianaUk]

Blimey

Thats just what I said to my counsellor last week, that my ex took all the things he initially really liked about me then manipulatively dismantled them then turned round and told me I was needy and mentally ill?  [alltogether now: Projection!]

My ex told me a big old load of hogwash re his ex and like a fool I fell for it, oh how I could kick myself now!

I didnt see it then even though I checked it out with people who knew him and thought I had a handle on it. Now i realise he's saying the same stuff about me to whoever the next poor sod is... ;==

[mark]

The same things that the borderline admired and required in women are the same things he hated? ?

They say they like this or that and see if you express the same or different feelings. ? They now have information which they can use later in the process of gaining emotional control over you (which an abuser has to do to be effective). ?

So they will switch their opinions, their feelings, their beliefs when they know that you are expecting them to be in accordance with you. ? They x-x-x-x with your reality. ? There's a part in "SWOE" about brainwashing. ? They build up your hopes and expectations and then have a sudden change of mind. ? My gf was just so excited about moving in with me...but the day before, she was just having soo much trouble getting things into boxes.

In my opinion, what they say they like or don't like is important to their purposes in the relationship, and used to gauge the 'non's' positions -- especially emotional positions.

[goochiegirl]

The very things that, early in our relationship, he claimed to admire and require in women he involved himself with (independence, emotional strength etc.) are the same things he hated about them. 

Bronwen,
A friend of mine and I were just discussing this very issue!  My BPDxbf told me several times later on in our relationship, that he was initally so drawn to me because I am so independent, can take care of myself, not emotionally needy.  He said that all the previous women he'd been with were so dependent and how this bothered him and drove him away.  Then (same conversation) he tells me.. "but with you, I wish you were more dependent on me!   With them it didn't feel good but from you it would."  He has even told me he wished I would smother him (I am a very freedom-loving person and value autonomy: do not like control of any sort.  I believe in trusting people to live their own lives the way they want to, so I have never tried to impose any "restrictions" or demands on him.)

My friend told me her XH was the same way (he too has some form of PDs).  IMHO, in my xbf's case, the previous g/fs' neediness and dependence made him feel caged.  But with me, my autonomy made him feel "unneeded", not close enough, afraid to lose me.  I suppose because I wasn't whiny and demanding and emotionally needy, etc. 

[mark]

Goochie'
How about the possibility that your autonomy can't MAKE anyone feel any way?  Maybe he chose to react to your autonomy as though you were rejecting him.  Maybe, if you had been more dependent on him, he would've complained that you were being TOO dependent. 
I'm just suggesting this because it seems so common for borderlines to do this kind of thing of switching thing, and complaining about the 'non' so that they can screw up the relationship. 
Mark

[Bigbob]

Goochie...I think i got to agree with Mark a bit on that one. Being overly autonomous or independent will make a man (well some of us i guess)feel that we're not needed or valued and as i can relate, feel rejected and unimportant.

Now to the topic...Well my wife's past relationships(only two major that she's admmitted) all ended pretty much the same, according to her, and here it is:
They failed to live up to their responsibility to contribute financially to the relationship, so she just walked out on them.

Her husband I've met several times, and even though he probably was too young and too wild then,  i find him to be quite a reasonable guy today.
The second guy I also knew years ago----she just lived w/him but had a daughter by him. HE was a Drunken Bum!..still is a drunk, but funny how she managed she says, to have loved him for 6-7 yrs.

But I got to tell ya, I honestly think she had much more to do with the demise of these relationships than she ever admit to.

Hell I've only been married for 1 yr, and she's kept many things of hers secret from me.. hasn't changed her name on many accounts, WILL NOT discuss her finances w/me ("It's none of my x-x-x-xing business") Her own doctor didn't even know who I was talking about when i called her because my wife never told her she remarried!

So, how much truth is there really? As in the case of my wife...she wouldn't want to reveal much of anything for fear I might use it against her someday, and since BP's shy away from responsibilty for their actions, you might be hard pressed to get the real deal.

Oh p.s.  "her favorite name for all us men is ∂ƒ∫∆˚s."

[mark]

Exactly.  My ex-gf, I came to realize, kept a lot of secrets, and I think she did so partly because she was anticipating the ending of the relationship.  Of course, in a healthy relationship, people open up to each other in an effort to avoid the ending of the relationship. 

What I'm saying is, it's a disease of intimacy, meaning that the borderlines generally behave in ways which contribute to the destruction of the relationship, while blaming the 'non' (sure enough, my ex criticized me once for not being open to her).

I just don't think that what they say about their previous break-ups (or relationships in general) can be trusted AT ALL.

(Bob, though, you said you agreed with me about something and then said exactly what I DISagreed with -- the notion that someone's being more dependent or more independent can MAKE their s.o. feel one way or the other.  Goochie's autonomy -- this is just my opinion --   didn't make her BPD feel unneeded.  More likely, he used that to sabotage the relationship.  I mean, what about all the people who are in relationships with people who are autonomous -- do they all automatically have to feel unneeded?)

[BrianaUk]

Wow, Im so glad I found BPDFamily. This thread alone has helped me understand so much more, even stuff i thought I had figured.

Mark, what you said earlier re:

They say they like this or that and see if you express the same or different feelings.?  They now have information which they can use later in the process of gaining emotional control over you (which an abuser has to do to be effective).?  

So they will switch their opinions, their feelings, their beliefs when they know that you are expecting them to be in accordance with you.?  They x-x-x-x with your reality.?  There's a part in "SWOE" about brainwashing.?  They build up your hopes and expectations and then have a sudden change of mind.?  My gf was just so excited about moving in with me...but the day before, she was just having soo much trouble getting things into boxes.

In my opinion, what they say they like or don't like is important to their purposes in the relationship, and used to gauge the 'non's' positions -- especially emotional positions.

This really brought it home to me, its a great insight , Thankyou. It left me a bit stunned so had to go away for a bit and just think it through.

It also ties in with the discussion re secrecy as It explains why my Ex was so secretive and kept me away from his friends and his scene. I thought it was just insecurity but now i realise i was being naive.

I'd already figured out that manipulation was a major factor but it hadnt occurred to me that it was on such a deeper level.

Goochiegirl, I tried to please by becoming less autonomous because that seemed to make him happy, then I got accused of being needy so I became stronger and more independant again, so of course he moved the goalposts. Its? a no win situation. Damned if you do, darned if you dont.

Your right Mark they do x-x-x-x with your reality bigtime. By the end i didnt know whether black was white or up from down. Its taken five months of therapy to start to feel right again and im still working through everything that happened.

Boy am i glad im off the rollercoaster though <huge sigh of relief>

Cheers guys, this place is a godsend?  

Take care All

Briana x

[goochiegirl]

How about the possibility that your autonomy can't MAKE anyone feel any way? ? Maybe he chose to react to your autonomy as though you were rejecting him.

Semantics at work here... what you are saying is exactly how I meant it. ? With my XH, we were both autonomous and it worked just fine. ? What I was trying to say is that, probably due to my BPDxbf's borderline issues, he felt threatened by my autonomy, whereas in a normal relationship, that wouldn't be going on.

The issue of dependency/need is an interesting one. ? Until recently in history, women were taught that they did need to have a man to have a satisfying life. ? And in fact they did, economically. ? Then came the trend of late - that women should be independent and be able to take care of themselves and be happy regardless of whether or not they have a partner. ? I read this over and over again all the time.

I was alone for four years after my divorce, and I HAD to learn to take care of myself. ? Make my own decisions, take care of whatever needs I have, rely on myself. And, I wanted to learn to be alone and be able to be happy, so that I wouldn't feel dependent on anyone ever again. ? So when the xbf came into my life, it was difficult. ? I remember one time when I decided I wanted to buy a car stereo.. I researched various systems, looked at various stores, and decided where to buy it and which one. ? Xbf was horrified that I would do such a thing rather than consult him - he said he needs to feel needed, and if I don't need him or value that part of him, what the heck am I with him for? ?

But my view on this is, that this is something I had been doing for myself long before I met him. I was just on auto-pilot doing what I had always done, it didn't even OCCUR to me to ask him because I know how to do this and so I just automatically did it. ? And it's a shame that he couldn't understand that I was with him because I LOVED him, by choice. ? Not due to any sort of need. ? I would think that it would feel better to someone to know that their partner is with them because of love and choice, not because of need.

[goochiegirl]

It also ties in with the discussion re secrecy as It explains why my Ex was so secretive and kept me away from his friends and his scene. I thought it was just insecurity but now i realise i was being naive.

Briana,
My ex did this too.?  Would go out with his friends and I was never to come along.?  He refused to tell his family about me until we were together nearly a year! (they live out of state).?  I didn't even get introduced to his coworkers until over a year later.?  

As far as his family, he told me that he didn't ever want to introduce a woman to his family until he was certain they were going to get married.?  Because it would cause him to feel shame if the relationship didn't work out (he would be seen as a failure again?).?  

Well, P.S... when he moved out in July, I immediately told my family.?  It is now November and (from last I heard a few weeks ago), he has still not told his family that we are not together?  

BTW - here's a good example of the issue of what I meant by autonomy.  All that time he went out with his friends and didn't ask me along (there were other couples too, not just guys)... it concerned me and I did feel some hurt.  I handled this by simply asking why this was, and telling him that I did feel hurt about it.  But I left it at that.  As far as I'm concerned, it is his choice whether or not he wants me there, and I respect that choice.  I did not bug him about it or judge him or demand to be included.  When he went, he went. And I would ask him, "did you have a good time?  Cool!"  And onto the next subject.  I practiced acceptance. 

And I had hoped that he would accept me the same way, rather than try to cage me in.  Didn't happen.

[BrianaUk]

Hey Goochiegirl

Your post just made me smile. Ive heard it said before "are BPDs working from a script or something?" but heck my Ex did all that stuff too.

Didnt introduce me to his family for nearly three years![His dad and bro's lived 200 miles away] Said he wanted to know it was really serious first. His family said "we're so glad to finally meet you!" I didnt like to say "well ive wanted to meet you for ages too but bowed to his request for more time."

He even "borrowed" my car to go visit them for a week in the second year, without me. I thought hey thats ok, dont want to appear needy. Give him some space.

Now the last bit is what made me smile. My Ex left in july too and i told my family pretty quickly we were through.Knowing what I do now, I wonder if he's told his family yet? I know he didnt want to appear as if he'd messed up again,like your ex. Plus I got on really well with his folks so wouldnt surprise me at all...

To cut a long story short, mine also liked to go to parties without me, he also disappeared once while we were on holiday "i'll be back in two hours" didnt come back till the next afternoon... Would refuse to tell me when I might see him again, etc etc. I too tried to be understanding and independant, turns out I was just being a doormat?  ;== Ah well, you live n learn hey...

Sorry youve been through this too hun. Keep smiling yeah, we're sooo much better off out of it?  

Good luck and best wishes for the future...

Briana x

[Bdawn]

Okay back to the original question:

My ex left all of his previous relationships and yet he didn't ever feel like he had hurt anyone. In his mind his exes never gave a sht about him anyways. When he left me and I tried to tell him how hurt I was, he said that I was faking my hurt feelings because I was a butt that was trying to manipulate him. This is exactly what he said his gf before me did!

He tells different stories about all of them, i.e..this one cheated on him, this one was using him, this was just wanted someone to help her buy a house.. on and on. But the bottom line was always the same, he didn't feel that they loved him. I am very curious about what he tells his new gf about me.

I moved out after only 5 months of living together and refused to go back, though I did keep seeing him. After I moved he was always accusing me of not really wanting a committed relationship, saying I was selfish and that what I really wanted was to be free and single. This isn't true of course, I couldn't go back because he was crazy and since he could never keep himself in check for more than a couple of weeks at a time I was terrified of living with him again. Wanting my freedom had nothing to do with it. So I imagine that he tells his current gf something along the lines of my wanting to be this wild single woman that has no worries or responsiblilities.

[Bdawn]

And it's a shame that he couldn't understand that I was with him because I LOVED him, by choice.?  Not due to any sort of need.

Goochiegirl, I couldn't agree more. My ex used to say that I had all the power in the relationship because he needed me, yet I didn't seem to need him. To him this was proof that he loved me more. Somehow he couldn't see a difference between love and need. Needy people do not build healthy and loving relationships.

[mark]

Goochiegirl, in the first post, asked if the bps lie about the other person and, if they do, do they believe their own lies? ?

As I already said, I wouldn't believe ANYTHING they said about past relationships/break-ups. ? But as far as whether they believe their own lies, I think Yes and No. ? They do believe their own lies, but also, they are (usually) not sociopaths, which means that they do have some sense of conscience. ? However, they are EXTREMELY adept at avoiding their own conscience through all kinds of self-deceptions. ?

In other words, I think that 'deep down' they know they are lying...For practical purposes, though, I think we have to treat them like they believe their own lies -- and stay far away!

[bronwen]

It didn't take me long to figure out that everything I said to him would come back and bite me on the ass.?  Early in our relationship, while discussing my economic situation after my divorce from my first husband, I casually remarked that I'd never allow myself to be financially dependant on a man again.?  

A few years later I quit my job to take care of the baby and ever since he has thrown that statement back in my face.?  Everything negative I'd confided in him about regarding my previous marriage he behaved just the opposite.?  For example, when I complained that my exH was not affectionate--he became Mr. Cuddle.?  Looking back he was counter-mimicking what I felt my exH failed at.?  

I remember being astounded that such a perfect man existed?  He was everything that was missing from my earlier marriage.?  Of course, now I know better, and it pains me to realize that I was in such a vulnerable state of mind that I latched right on without question.

[supermom]

My exBPDbf blames the other party with respect to his relationships with his ex-gf and his ex-wife when really his negative behaviour and his selfihs "I'm gonna do what I want" attitude are the reasons both his ex-gf (prior to his marriage he was with the ex-gf) and his ex-wife decided to move on.  When he and I were together he referred to his ex-wife as an abuser and me and his ex-gf too (a few weeks after he and the ex-gf had gone their separate ways she returned to their apartment in which he was still residing to pick up her cat, he asked her if she wanted the cat and she said yes so the evil person he is, he tossed the cat over the balcony at his ex-gf three storeys up).  The cat survived.  With respect to his ex-wife, she ended up in a shelter for abused women and the poor woman's life is a mess and she's attempting to get on track and move forward with her life.  She did say that he ruined her life and I can see him doing that.  So in a nutshell, he has nothing nice to say about any past relationships including his family members.  He hates everyone.  He claimed everyone turned their back on him.  He drove them to do just that.

[goochiegirl]

Supermom,

Yeah. They're such victims, aren't they? Poor poor them.  ;==

[supermom]

Goochiegirl, they butt and complain about how hard done to they are.  I have no pity for them.

[brucey]

My ex was living with an old man when she was 17 and 18 years old.  She graduated from high school and got a job as a receptionist.  She seduced her boss (about 50 years old), dumped her boyfriend, and moved in with the new guy.  He was fired from his job for the affair.  She quit.  Years later they were married.

I once asked my ex how she had met her husband.  She said it was at work.  She then said, "I saw what I wanted, I went after it, and I got it."

I now realize how narcissistic and cold this is.  It is what she does.  She watches movies about psychopathic young women who seduce older men and ruin their lives.  Then she imitates these movies.  She bragged to me that her earlier boyfriend was so hurt by her dumping him that he attempted suicide and ended up in an institution.

It is her way.  Watch out for her.  Be warned.

[Hikergal72]

First marriage...he found her in bed with a neighbor. Truth? (as I've now learned) he was the one in bed with a neighbor (he later married her, wife #2)...left her because she was addicted to Lortab. Truth?  He was ALSO addicted to Lortab, more so than her.  Wife # 3?  Found her in bed with a friend.  Truth? He was in bed with her best friend.  1st engagement since that dissolved marriage...she was not independent enough (only 22, he's 33) Truth? She left him because he was too immature. 2nd engagement?  She treated him like complete sht! Ya'll know the truth about to spill from my mouth.  And the one that really gets me, he abandoned his third child saying the mother was a psycho from hell and keeps him away (legally) cause he can't afford to keep fighting for visitation...the truth?  She barred him from son's life because ...drum roll, please..HE'S the PSYCHO one...Forgive the political incorrectness.  Mind you, I found out about # 3, the engagements and the child after the break-up!  Aye yay yay! 
THANK GOD HE'S GONE!

[goochiegirl]

Hikergal,

Yeah, this is exactly why I am hesitant to believe that his ex-wife cheated on him. I'm sure it must have been the other way around.  Sounds like they take what they themselves do to screw it up, and make it sound like the other person did it instead.