Is there any healthy way for me to stay in this?

[Think About It...]

Bryan,

I was just rereading my posts and came accross this and just watned to say on more thing as well as hear how you are doing. You mentioned that your abality to set boundries is what may end the marriage. As I look back on my situation that was exactly the case. It was my learning to set boundries with her that casued the marraige to end. I mean after all as long as they can run over us, as long as they can run the show and get what they want why should they end it?

I hope things go better for you than for me and I hope that as you learn to set boundries with her you stick to them and then let her decide if she wants to stay or not. I have had some great pastors help me along with this. One was all for giving her every chance and for doing all I could to save the marriage but in the end he was also caring enough to actually say, "you have to divorce her" One Christian counslor helped me see that it is righteous of me not to take responsibility for her actions even when she does not own them.

[wart]

Bryan,

I was just rereading my posts and came accross this and just watned to say on more thing as well as hear how you are doing. You mentioned that your abality to set boundries is what may end the marriage. As I look back on my situation that was exactly the case. It was my learning to set boundries with her that casued the marraige to end. I mean after all as long as they can run over us, as long as they can run the show and get what they want why should they end it?

I hope things go better for you than for me and I hope that as you learn to set boundries with her you stick to them and then let her decide if she wants to stay or not. I have had some great pastors help me along with this. One was all for giving her every chance and for doing all I could to save the marriage but in the end he was also caring enough to actually say, "you have to divorce her" One Christian counslor helped me see that it is righteous of me not to take responsibility for her actions even when she does not own them.

[came from chaos]

I read quickly through this thread.   Wart...the only thing that came to mind as I read all of your "justifications" was CODEPENDENCE.  It screams out so blatantly in your posts.  You're like a moth drawn into a flame...but unlike the moth you KNOW the flame could destroy you, yet you spiral closer without regard.  Its almost like a death wish.  Then you admitted codependence as an "issue" in your last reply. Surprise!

You had better sit down and do some real work with your therapist.  Not all therapists are good, its hard to tell which ones are sometimes.  However, what YOU say (all that is presented about him is from your perspective) this counselor might not be exactly the right guy for you.  I'm not sure a counselor who would suggest its a good idea to get back together again after the violent history you've had is giving you good advice...especially when its so obvious you haven't worked through the codependence.   Like BPD, codependence is not like SNAP! and 3, 6, 18 months (what have you) you've worked through it.  It takes time, and with some people, lots of time.   You mentioned boundaries, but its obvious the underlying causaility of your codependence is not being addressed.     You may have to look very closely at your own history to understand why you have such low self esteem ( if there is a self at all).  Lack of a sense of self is the root of codependence.      Were you the child of an alcoholic or otherwise abusive dysfucntional family system?  These are things you'll need to explore, and I really mean explore and then DO something about.  Otherwise you are doomed to repeat and reapeat and repeat the same mistakes all over again and then you'll be playing the "victim," or  wondering why has this happened to me again?

I understand Joanna's reservations.  You are not in a big rush.  Yes its been a while, but be realistic, BPs can put on a good show of it for a while, but then when its not convenient for them to make the effort of good behavior anymore (i.e. complacency or being comfortable again) boom.

I've been in your shoes, I have worked many years now on codependence, I'm stilling working these issues through.   I've been married now 28 years to a more or less high functioning BP, much higher functioning when she's not abusing substances. 

Believe me its not easy...you must always vigilant knowing that the BP is there and alive kicking, even if the  behavior has quelled somewhat.   In my situation I learned that BP was present only after I nearly destroyed myself with alcohol.   Having entered recovery  I have learned a lot.  My wife too has been in recovery and she's making progress, but its one day at a time.  Like one post before, my wife has many redeeming features, but even while the times are good, it takes a lot of work.   It takes a lot of work to make a healthy marriage for normal people, but marriage to a BP even under the best of circumstances can be exhausting/draining (it can suck the soul out of you)  if one does not take care of myself properly.  Marriage to a BP is never going to be easy, and that's  understating the issue like saying the universe is big.       

But marriage to a BP can be done and it can be a relatively good and happy marriage, but this is not by far the norm. However, you have to work through your own issues earnestly otherwise you haven't  even a ghost of a chance.  This may seem unsympathetic, but the fact remains that you may be setting yourself up again for a repeat, and it could be worse down the road.   A moth to a flame.

Pete     

[wart]

Pete,

I appreciate your feedback. Interesting though that you are still with your BPD wife? While telling me I should leave mine. Some of you have very interesting viewpoints. Many people here seem not to bebelieve in love. As if it is a subjective thing. I think everyone seems to see reality through the lense of their own heart. Ie my BPD partenr treated me this way and so that is what I see in everyone elses relationship.

[JoannaK]

But, wart, you aren't with your BPD wife!  You haven't been "with" her for over two years!  She is not showing (according to what you've written) any interest in working things out with you.  You can't hogtie someone and make them stay with you.

I believe that love is as love does.  My exh treated me disparagingly and I eventually left him.  It is immaterial whether or not we loved each other or still loved each other when we divorced.  I refused to stay in an abusive relationship.  We got counseling, he got counseling, but everything went down the drain anyway. 

I am in another relationship now and I love the man I'm with very much.  But that's not as important as the way he treats me.  He treats me the way you should treat someone that you love.  It's not what they say, what we feel, it's how the two people actually interact.  At least that's my opinion.

[came from chaos]

Wart...you need to read more carefully.  I never said for you to leave her.    What I did say, in essence, is that before you change your present circumstances, i.e. you're living seperately, it would be a very good idea to take it slowly and think things through with your head rather than emotion.  It would also be a good idea for you to thoroughly work through YOUR issues, before you find yourself again in a destructive situation.   You've been through it before, and now you are gambling, hoping that things will be different...but you don't really know for sure.  You're seeing evidence that things might not be so ideal with this finance business and your intuition makes you feel uneasy.  However, you would like to ignore your gut uneasiness and hope against hope that it will work out, that she indeed has changed.  These ambivalent feelings  are a warning signal for you to take it slowly.

As for living with a BP...everyone's circumstance is different, so are all BPs.  They are human after all, admittedly sick humans, but humans none the less with a lot of diversity.  Your wife has her own history, her own genetics and her own degree of manifestation of BPD.   You have your own personality make up unique to you etc.  So yes you might be able to have her back and that you might be able to live relatively good and happy lives... or not.  So you shouldn't necessarily compare your situation with mine.   

One can live with a BP ...but the fact is that one needs to have his or her own act together to do so, because the BP will not have their act fully together <--- and this would be under ideal circumstances when the BP is trying to recover.   It often takes a Herculean effort which can drain you emotionally. 


Pete