A setback in Utopia

[Think About It...]

My BPD wife has really been doing well lately but...

2 days ago I came home from working out and she took my hands and smelled my fingers(this alone was a violation,in how she did it) and she said ''wow,very expensive cologne,who bought you that?''

I said (with my back up now) '' first of all,its' not cologne,its aftershave,secondly it is free at my club,and thirdly,every time I workout ,I sauna and take a steam and shave,and you have smelled it many times before''

She then said ''which one on your btches bought it for you?,oh now I get it ,thats why you have been nice lately,cause you wanted to hide a valentines day present/birthday present from me from one of them''

This went on ,yet I just went upstairs to watch tv.


Now usually I could hug her and say I love her( and she would calm down),but I would feel like that being the same as hugging my warden after he put me into solitary confinement or beat me up.

Then yesterday in the night she started this sht again talking about btches,hiding money,a ''fake'' rolex I bought her years ago,how she would not go to the therapist etc etc etc blah blah blah.

Last night while watching American Idol (yeaaaaaaa,those twins are gone and arrested !) she started again and asked me a question which was an accusation inside a riddle wrapped in an enigma disguised as a question,which I refused to comment on,or answer.
She asked me this question over 100 x,I actually counted.

Then she did not get me to engage,so she took the converter away,then she took my magazine away,then she said something about cops,not being sorry,I will be sorry and more passive aggressive threats.
She told the kids to leave our room,and then they got really uncomfortable,and one cried.I got off the bed to walk out with my kids and she blocked me and tried to remove on of the posts from our bed?

I tried to get by her and she put both hands on my throat(lightly but not the point) and wrapped them around it.I was toe to toe obviously and was very much restraining myself and she let go and walked away.

This morning she gave a very very weak apology,and another one just texted recently.


Now ,believe me folks,I do understand the concept of ''one step forward and two steps back",yet this moment last night was defining because it was violence,aggression,and her being a x-x-x-xing bully,in front of my kids to boot!

This teaches my kids to accept this from their partners in their lives,which means that I fail as a father.Thats my big dilema this morning.

It made me feel like a non-man last night,yet a response of punching her in the mouth would have been equally non-man as would a response of leaving the house and then her escalating by calling the police or whatever.

I think that I will write her a letter today explaining my response if it happens again,yet that would be worthless unless I follow up.

Just venting folks,

See,today everything will probaly be ''ok''again which is the problem.I just really cannot allow this to be swept under the carpet like it always is.

Marc

[John Galt]

My BPD wife has really been doing well lately but...

2 days ago I came home from working out and she took my hands and smelled my fingers(this alone was a violation,in how she did it) and she said ''wow,very expensive cologne,who bought you that?''

I said (with my back up now) '' first of all,its' not cologne,its aftershave,secondly it is free at my club,and thirdly,every time I workout ,I sauna and take a steam and shave,and you have smelled it many times before''

She then said ''which one on your btches bought it for you?,oh now I get it ,thats why you have been nice lately,cause you wanted to hide a valentines day present/birthday present from me from one of them''

This went on ,yet I just went upstairs to watch tv.


Now usually I could hug her and say I love her( and she would calm down),but I would feel like that being the same as hugging my warden after he put me into solitary confinement or beat me up.

Then yesterday in the night she started this sht again talking about btches,hiding money,a ''fake'' rolex I bought her years ago,how she would not go to the therapist etc etc etc blah blah blah.

Last night while watching American Idol (yeaaaaaaa,those twins are gone and arrested !) she started again and asked me a question which was an accusation inside a riddle wrapped in an enigma disguised as a question,which I refused to comment on,or answer.
She asked me this question over 100 x,I actually counted.

Then she did not get me to engage,so she took the converter away,then she took my magazine away,then she said something about cops,not being sorry,I will be sorry and more passive aggressive threats.
She told the kids to leave our room,and then they got really uncomfortable,and one cried.I got off the bed to walk out with my kids and she blocked me and tried to remove on of the posts from our bed?

I tried to get by her and she put both hands on my throat(lightly but not the point) and wrapped them around it.I was toe to toe obviously and was very much restraining myself and she let go and walked away.

This morning she gave a very very weak apology,and another one just texted recently.


Now ,believe me folks,I do understand the concept of ''one step forward and two steps back",yet this moment last night was defining because it was violence,aggression,and her being a x-x-x-xing bully,in front of my kids to boot!

This teaches my kids to accept this from their partners in their lives,which means that I fail as a father.Thats my big dilema this morning.

It made me feel like a non-man last night,yet a response of punching her in the mouth would have been equally non-man as would a response of leaving the house and then her escalating by calling the police or whatever.

I think that I will write her a letter today explaining my response if it happens again,yet that would be worthless unless I follow up.

Just venting folks,

See,today everything will probaly be ''ok''again which is the problem.I just really cannot allow this to be swept under the carpet like it always is.

Marc

[lennic]

So sorry Ruthless..I really am. It's really hard when things seem to be going smooth.

Up here in the Northeast we have to drive in some crazy weather..nasty stuff sometimes. The worst of all is ice. You just have no control.

When I'm in this stuff for whatever silly reason to begin with, I find a place to stop if I can(LOL)..get out of the truck,,sit with a coffee and wait for it to warm up. There are times when it is just foolish to keep trying.

Be well.

Lenny

[John Galt]

Thank you so much Lenny.

That is a very appropriate analogy today because of my situation and also the freezing rain now and the snow from last night here in Toronto.

Moments like that are just so bad,yet it does not make it right but she did say sorry a few times already.At leat now she acknowledges it rather than ''blaming'' me. Personal growth?

Marc

[moesha]

No, Marc, everything will not be "OK" again. Not with violent behavior swept under the rug.  Not until your wife understands in technicolor that putting her hands on you, or threatening you, (or kids) will involve serious consequences 100% of the time.

You are correct to consider this a crisis.  Abuse is always a crisis and never excusable.  At the very least, this behavior is cause for an emergency session with the therapist.  at worst, it requires a 911 phone call with subsequent official documentation.

Your wife is setting the stage for false domestic violence charges.  You need a plan, my friend.  False DV charges, false accusations of sexual abuse of your children are as common as dirt when a BPD decides it's time to make you hurt.  Please do not take this lightly or in stride.  It's time to stop, get help documenting this incident, and your wife needs to feel some consequences for her sick behavior.

and your kids deserve help protecting themselves from a menacing mother.  they must be terribly frightened. 

Her apologies are not a sign of personal growth.  They are a sign she's covering her ass. 

Personal growth would be for her to call the therapist, take the initiative in making an appt, suggest you two sit down and draw up a contract and a plan to deal with any violent, threatening behavior out of her.  THAT is taking personal responsibility. 

Watch her behavior, not her words. 

[Caribou]

Marc,

I am sorry that things are taking a backward turn.  I know that it could just as easily be me writing this post.

First of all, you did handle it really well.  In the past, the accusations of infidelity were one of the areas that could finally get me to crack and get angry.  I have been through the interrogations with the same question asked over and over.  You did well.

The approach that has worked for me in those situations is to say something like: "I know you think another woman bought me cologne and I would feel bad too if I thought the reverse situation was happening with you.  But, that is not happening, I know in my heart there is not anything even remotely improper going on and since you are unable to discuss the situation rationally, I am not willing to talk about."  This has been pretty effective for me but I understand that every case is different.

Second, regarding the threats and physical violence (hands on throat): again, you did great.  You not only talk the talk (telling others not to return violence with violence), you walk the walk.  I would hate to have to say the following to my wife again at this point on our journey, but I would do it if faced with the situation you described, and that is "The threats and violence must stop or I am not willing to continue in this marriage."

I very strongly want my marriage to survive and I believe you do too, but you are right, acceptance of threats and violence is not a message I want to send to my kids nor is it something I am willing to accept.  She probably just needs a boundary booster shot.

Stay strong, we are right there with you.

[John Galt]

I appreciate that advice Moesha,thank you.


It is just so easy to say that ''its ok ,I accept your apology'',and then move on and think it is fine,which obviously its not.

We do have the therapist on Tuesday,and I am going to make this the sole discussion of that session,you are right about that.I understand that she should call ,not me but she won't,so I will take the initiative on Tuesday which is far from ideal because Liszy is not making the call.

Without any consequences it just makes it so easy to do it again,when she feels like it,

Marc

[John Galt]

Caribou,thanks man.

I have tried the whole validation thing and it usually works good with someone who is role-playing or with someone who is not raging,but when Liszy gets like this ,I really would not be able to say 3 words without her escalating things or screaming louder so I cannot accept your kudos,although I do accept your kudos for staying calm and quiet like a I was Ghandi or Dr.King.
A concern is that it makes me feel like a wimp,or a child who cannot respond to the schoolyard bully.

I have fought bullies in my life and got hurt but always would prefer to lose a fight to a bully than not fight at all.When you are standing there with your wifes hands on your throat and me standing there doing nothing is really pathetic,and a sick pathetic response to accept it,and do nothing.

I will take Moeshas advice as my response although.There has to be the understanding that every action has a reaction,and cause and effect, if not,then this is complete bs.An apology cannot solve this,this time,I am very serious about this today.

Hitler and all other dictators always used the propoganda technique of ''the bigger the lie,the greater the truth''

My point is that my girls (9 and 10) at least -because my boy is 5 and too young to understand- believe that I have other woman,have beaten up or hit my wife,I hide money from her, etc etc etc .This enough is just so sad for me to know.

Thank you,
Marc

[Caribou]

My point is that my girls (9 and 10) at least -because my boy is 5 and too young to understand- believe that I have other woman,have beaten up or hit my wife,I hide money from her, etc etc etc .This enough is just so sad for me to know.

Marc, I have daughters that are 20, 16, and 15.  They were about the age of your girls when I divorced their mother.  She told them: I was having affairs, I was cruel to her, I wanted to kill her, blah, blah, blah and they believed it all at the time.  It broke my heart to know my kids believed that about me.

Time has past and they are older and wiser (probably than either of their parents) and they know the truth.  They figure things out pretty quick; your kids will too.

I am sorry you are going through this.

[John Galt]

Thanks a lot for that,I really appreciate it ,Caribou

I also am not taking your words to stay staus quo,because this issue is not going to be swept under the rug like others before it.

I even think that my kids know certain truths now.

Moesha is one of the people here who has always told me how she felt as a child with a BPD parent,and how she understood way earlierr than I would think my kids would know certain things about there moms behaviour.

Thank you again,
Marc

[garyw]

Hi ruthless

I'm going to do a new post in this section.

It will be called "Domestic Violence Lite ?"

Actually its a post I made maybe a couple years ago and I think it's impoprtant for everyone to see is why I'm making it it's own thread.

So it will just be a link to click on.

Really sorry for you and the poor kids to have to witness all this.

[John Galt]

Thank you,Gary.

My daughter wants to be a cop (as I think you were) although she is only 9.

She does peace makers at school,and conflict resolution as well at school and she is really good at this although for very much the wrong reasons.

Last night she stood between my wife and I with my wifes hands on my throat.

Very very sad that she feels she has to protect me,her mom,or to squash the conflict.

This is why I am taking Moeshas good advice to heart.

[garyw]

Last night she stood between my wife and I with my wifes hands on my throat.

That is enough to make any grown man cry...it really is.


I so hope you find a way to not let these images burn into that pretty little girls mind... I have faith that you will.

little girls are not supposed to have that job so early are they :'(

and good luck to her

[John Galt]

Thank you Gary,

Like all of us parents  here,our children are first in our lives and that makes this battle more difficult.Some would say it should make it less difficult ,and I understand that too.
I did leave out the part of the tears in my eyes,at that moment.

No one deserves that job ever.

This is a long tough road ,being on the committed section,that is.

Marc

[garyw]

This is a long tough road ,being on the committed section,that is.

Thats why I pretty much stay out of that section and Parents and Unchosen because the dynamics are a lot differant.

But sometimes there comes a time when all else fails that all the rules become the same in the big picture.

[lennic]

Get off the ice...you are carrying passengers.

My best.

Lenny

[John Galt]

Ain't that the truth,
Thanks,
Marc

[laker]

Marc,

I think maybe... and I really have never thought this out or taken it as a step because I have no kids... but maybe, you could ask your wife to sit and apologize specifically to the kids as well, explaining that she has some problems, and this is why she acts like that with daddy. Maybe, she could tell them that dad is a good guy and he really doesn't do any of the things mommy accuses him of. That would be a good step in acknowledging her responsibility. THen it puts the ball in your court to make sure the kids don't necessarily blame or hate their mom. But at least, then they would trust the saner of the two parents especially? Also, you may want to at least document the incidents like that with the police. For example, the cops can be called, and you could tell them by phone what happened, then when they come meet them outside and let them know things have calmed down (I know this might be traumatic for kids, so take all that I say with grains of salt). I remember my upper hand came from me once calling the cops when she trashed the house. It meant a lot, as well as making it clear to her that there was something wrong with trashing the house etc... She still can't control it of course, and I don't expect her to. I expect her to work on it. Anyway, just a few suggestions. I feel for you man. Let your daughter know she doesn't have to do that next time... and that it's safe. Tell her you'll always make sure she's safe especially <3. Man, that really saddens me.

On a side note, my wife got angry again last night over a minor topic that i guess just really strokes that anger nerve in her. So I didn't stop immediately when she told me she was getting annoyed but I did within a minute or so. I let her calm down, and we had a great night together .

Drew

[John Galt]

Thanks Drew,

I think that that could be a good idea.She always ''claims'' that ''the kids know she gets upset and says things that she does not mean''

Tonight I am going to ask her to apoligize to me and the kids for last night and explain herself and take some ownership for what happenned.

Thank you,
Marc

[moesha]

My martial arts teacher says that the strongest fighter is the one who is never called upon to prove it.  

You are 100% correct in not escalating when your wife is raging.  That would only validate her claims that you are an abuser.  Plus, you know she's mentally ill.  Protecting yourself and your kids is the #1 priority, NOT mixing it up with a crazy woman.  Your self-control in the face of her threats and assault (and it IS assault) show your mettle as a man.  Your maturity and strength are apparent precisely because you hold it together, walk away, and don't smack her in the face when she gets up into yours.  

Marc, no matter what happens re your marriage, you will know that you tried everything.  That's true devotion.  it's honoring your commitment.  If the marriage ends, you will be able to look into your children's faces and say that you loved their mom and worked hard at saving your marriage.  

I agree with Caribou, kids figure out who is full of s**t and who is not.  consistently sane behavior on your part will not be unnoticed.

Drew's idea about documenting with the police is something I thought of as well.  Maybe swinging by the precinct, asking to talk to a DV officer, explain what is going on, saying you want to avoid calling the cops on her, but you're scared she will hurt you or your kids, or try to falsely accuse you.  DV shelters and hotlines are also good sources of advice and info.  

[John Galt]

Moesha Moesha Moesha ( I love the brady bunch,what can I say!)

I once read this book and they were telling a story about a great warrior during the Ming dynasty and this martial art expert let this man humiliate him publicy rather than fight him,because he thought that his humiliation was better than the result of him fighting and killing this man.

Thank you for the compliment (re:mettle).

I have done the police station thing,it is a good idea,but my wife has been charged a few times before and even did that fake d.v.charge against me( later recanted on the day of the trial).The thing is ,the police have been at our place like 5-7x over the past years,nothing for 18 months now,and the bottom line really is that if the police come they just take their best shot(no pun intended) at who is at fault.
Also at the police station,they will take me as a joker because my wife is nuts,they have charged her a few times before,they know there was a fake d.v charge yet this ''idiot ''is still there(has not left her yet)
If I was a cop,and Marc came in and said blah blah blah about the wife ,I would charge Marc for being an idiot and throw him in jail myself!Half joking but you get my point.

My very good friend who is a cop at another station actually had a former partner of his who was the arresting officer in the fake charge against me.After my charges were dropped these 2 guys met up in the line of duty one day and spoke about me to which the arresting officer said to my friend,

''Oh yeah,I know that guy,I had to arrest him ,I had no choice,but his wife is insane''



Anyway,
Liszy keeps emailing me saying how she is sorry,but tonight I will take Drews idea and on Tuesday I will very seriously discuss this at the therapist and make a contract about what will happen next time.

BTW,yeah thats it Moesha,the devotion part.If all else fails,I want to know that I tried everyway I could.

Marc