A setback in Utopia

[Think About It...]

I will do this in 2 parts cause my computer keeps freaking out !

Ok, you all know by now that Canada lost to Russia,boo hoo,what a bad day for me !

Ok Gary,first of all,our Canadian girls skate better than those Russian girls and you know it,so there !Our girls also play hockey better than our boys too !
Check out the Ukraine per capita thing ,then get back to me.
I guess you are a big fan of the Brazil volleyball thing too,haha!

Ok,ok,back to BPD now.

First things first,the outpouring of emotions,advice and well wishes here has actually been so unreal,and supportive it just is my silver lining in all this.This place makes me understand myself so much better and makes me a better man,day by day.

Thank you all so much.When I see a thread like this it re-inforces the support of the good peoples intentions at BPDFamily,and it saddens me that the ''ones who have left'' might have done so for the wrong reasons,although obviously I would support that right of theirs as well.

I get emotional and sarcastic and caustic and mean to others here sometimes,but when push comes to shove ''this family is here for eachother'' and that is so fantastic and overwhelming.

Oy,I want hard cold advice from people .I do not seek yes men in my life.Your post made me think and it was accurate.

Spouse,I agree with your analysis of how to deal with BPDwife,although I cannot sit back and continue to be the Dali Llama because I would agree more with the politics of Malcome X,than the formers strategy because bloodshed will resolve things faster and more effectivley.When I speak of bloodshed in my case it is an analogy meaning change or else,with the bloodshed really meaning her seeking treatment at any cost by any means necessary or else.I must seek to undersatnd my ''or else'' now.Thank you kindly for your thoughts spouse.

Atbay, Thanks.I totally understand you and your deal.The more I deal with this setback,or dealbreaker or whatever the more I see that it is all just a way to divert what she did,what she feels and put it on me.I am not qualified to make her better,I have to start to be qualified with dealing with me first.

Marc

[John Galt]

I will do this in 2 parts cause my computer keeps freaking out !

Ok, you all know by now that Canada lost to Russia,boo hoo,what a bad day for me !

Ok Gary,first of all,our Canadian girls skate better than those Russian girls and you know it,so there !Our girls also play hockey better than our boys too !
Check out the Ukraine per capita thing ,then get back to me.
I guess you are a big fan of the Brazil volleyball thing too,haha!

Ok,ok,back to BPD now.

First things first,the outpouring of emotions,advice and well wishes here has actually been so unreal,and supportive it just is my silver lining in all this.This place makes me understand myself so much better and makes me a better man,day by day.

Thank you all so much.When I see a thread like this it re-inforces the support of the good peoples intentions at BPDFamily,and it saddens me that the ''ones who have left'' might have done so for the wrong reasons,although obviously I would support that right of theirs as well.

I get emotional and sarcastic and caustic and mean to others here sometimes,but when push comes to shove ''this family is here for eachother'' and that is so fantastic and overwhelming.

Oy,I want hard cold advice from people .I do not seek yes men in my life.Your post made me think and it was accurate.

Spouse,I agree with your analysis of how to deal with BPDwife,although I cannot sit back and continue to be the Dali Llama because I would agree more with the politics of Malcome X,than the formers strategy because bloodshed will resolve things faster and more effectivley.When I speak of bloodshed in my case it is an analogy meaning change or else,with the bloodshed really meaning her seeking treatment at any cost by any means necessary or else.I must seek to undersatnd my ''or else'' now.Thank you kindly for your thoughts spouse.

Atbay, Thanks.I totally understand you and your deal.The more I deal with this setback,or dealbreaker or whatever the more I see that it is all just a way to divert what she did,what she feels and put it on me.I am not qualified to make her better,I have to start to be qualified with dealing with me first.

Marc

[John Galt]

Been there,

I get it,and I know reading this ,one would not agree with my next words but...I do love me and the kids more than her,no question at all although I would understand anyone questioning this about me cause it seems incorrect.I love my kids and me more ,thats why I put up with certain behaviours of hers,because I want them and me to reach my ideals(which are not being met,I know).I saw last night,yet again,that she so needs help,I think the kids saw it as well.Just her trying to bully me,and me trying to calm her!It is sick on my part.
She abuses me,and I am trying to calm her?
 
Miss Snails,

I like that French/American thing,but then can one make a mentally ill person happy ? Thats the question.I agree with your intervention thing,and I think it is the only way that she will go anyway.Thank you Madame Escargot !

If my wife never seeks treatment as opposed to me ''getting her into '' treatment then my question is does the ends support the means?

Some here would say that it is not my responsibility, you can take a horse to water..., I cannot cure her,and she has to want it.Some would say that if I force her,trick her,or give her the choice of divorce or treatment(if I am serious) then at least she is in,and could get better.

I am leaning towards the latter,

Any thoughts dear panel...

Thank you all again,

Marc

[At_Bay]

Will there be a Russian sweep in figure skating? I can't stand waiting and will peek at Eurosport.com as they skate. There's audio or text only, however.

Marc, I'm sorry to hear another night of conflict. You do have to calm her down for your own sake, too. Keeping us engaged and in the fray postpones any logical thinking. Who can think? I'm glad you've gone through the planning and have that out of the way. It isn't a time to be impulsive in that regard when kids are involved. Boy, does that change things. Putting the brakes on, however, isn't impulsive-sounding to me.

This is from an article about BPD by Joel Paris, M.D., a professor of psychiatry at McGill U. in Montreal, who has written a book.

"Most of the work in psychotherapy consists of helping patients to be less impulsive, and to exercise better judgment in their management of their personal lives."

But what if their priority remains showing someone they can do whatever they please. Then they suffer the consequences, I guess, whether we stay or leave. I had face whether I'd had the courage "to exercise better judgment in the management of our personal lives." That was when therapy hurt for me, personally. I have made changes though afterward and have grown. When I look back at my own mistakes, I try to remember that. Opt for growth is what I read once about reaching decisions. The dream may not be possible, but growth surely is.

At Bay

[John Galt]

Thanks Ebay,opps,at bay !

That is why I calm her down because it cannot be a constant state of war,it just cannot.
That is an amazing part of the article,thanks,

Last night I tried talking a little and she started again.I said that that is a defense mechanism by you,you scream,bully,rage and intimidate to back me down and I do back down,therefore great strategy!

Why would she use a different strategy,or seek treatment when her current approach is doing so well ( for her,not me)

If I borrow Mr.Caribous 3 boundries it would be more effective for sure.

Now she also totally changed history in what happened the other night.When I broached this subject last night,she called my girls to be ''expert witnesses'' in the event,which again is nothing short of sick behaviour.They knew exactly what to say and needless to say I did not cross examine my own daughters obviously.My wife also said she did not touch me,or scream at me ,or block my exit?

I asked her if she was aware what psychosis or dissassocition was ?

Marc

[At_Bay]

Good heavens, that loss of reality. That is what becomes so damaging to the hope of things changing, for me at least. A daily journal helps until they won't type anything during an episode. Of course, the girls will follow her lead as children do. They aren't equipped emotionally to express logic and reason to an adult. I'm with you, I'd just call the game over rehashing it with my kid for an audience. Your wife was so out of control, it was probably a blur and coupled with latitude in inventing reality, you don't stand a chance I'm afraid. Part of the deal, unfortunately. As my therapist says to me, that's where things stand. So unfair and frustrating, Marc, when you are willing to talk about it and to listen. But, expecting you to develop amnesia is asking a lot and won't happen; it should be clear to her by now. Do they think we make this stuff up? A brick wall is what I'm looking at. Bless you for trying. You really love your kids.

At Bay

[John Galt]

Thanks Dude ( sorry,I just am calling everyone dude,man and soon dawg like Randy on American Idol)

I told her that either she does not realize,remember or just lies about everything and either answer is scary in itself.

Silver lining is that when she starts this sht ,I go for a power walk with my dog and that makes me ,the dog,and my endocronologist happy !

I think it is either disassociation or straight out defense mechanism via lies.Either one is no good.

We all love our kids ,thanks but I guess I should figure out the best for them and that would be true love,

Marc

[istayed]

Thanks Dude ( sorry,I just am calling everyone dude,man and soon dawg like Randy on American Idol)

Hey, let's hear it from the Dawg Pound for Ruthless!
Ruff-ruff! Yo!  Hooah! You da bomb!

Despite the ongoing problems, and the fact that there are some bad outcomes involved in every one of your options, I'm proud of you. Ruthie, you're so well grounded, it's scary. You really have all your ducks in a row.

I'm sooo jealous!

spam

[JoannaK]

marc, I do believe that the BPD affects her memory when she looks back at these incidents... She doesn't see them as they really happened.  And getting the kids involved...  The kids won't cross her.  They'll take her side.  But putting the kids against the dad is a truly lousy thing to do.  Document, document, document...  Keep documenting even though you aren't yet sure what you are doing.

[wojah]

You know Marc, the breakthrough came in my marriage when I put my foot down and began loving MYSELF consistently. And by that I mean...I would bluntly say, "Hey, I'm not tolerating your temper tantrums anymore. When you're ready to talk calmly like an adult, come find me.  If you're not happy in the marriage, you're free to go.  No chains on your feet.  But I'm committed to this marriage and to you, so if you want out, go for it. Don't sit here everyday and curse me out and expect me to put up with it.  You can argue and curse at the wall."  Then I'd walk away after saying that.

It's the point with you (I think) that you will have to practice consistent self-presevation and maintaining healthy boundaries for you and for your children.  The charade is over and it's time to "pull up your boot straps" and face whatever comes.  Pull out the trump cards and let the chips fall where they may.  Either she'll tow the line or she'll go bezerk and get arrested.  Either way, the true colors will come out and be dealt with one way or another.  No more games, no more hiding. It's time to face this head on and be prepared for the worst (if it happens)!  Hopefully not!  Rebellious teenagers always test the limits and need structure and boundaries.  BPDs fall into the same category and have to be dealt with in the same manner.  Hope you continue to stand strong and protect yourself and your kids.  Physical abuse should never be tolerated so if she continues to physically hurt you, you will have no choice but to leave and know in your heart that you gave it your best shot.  That's all anyone can do.  Give it your all and have no regrets later.   From what you described, you already gave it your all already.  If my husband disrespected my boundary setting by getting violent, I would have divorced him long ago.  That's where I draw the line.

Define your line and then stick to it.  Like I said previously, save yourself or lose your soul.  The choice is yours.  Glad you're getting stronger.  

[wojah]

Yeah, I agree with JohannaK.  Putting the kids betwen both of you is destructive and does nothing positive except add more fuel to the fire.  You may have to do extra comforting and coaching with your children so they understand the dysfunctional situation.  If your children can get a better understanding of the dynamics going on in the house, they will be able to remain neutral and maybe stay out of the argument between you and your wife.  As a matter of fact, if your children ever ask you what they can do to help, it would be the perfect opportunity to ask them not to get involved and remain neutral.  Even if they have opinions of their own, I don't think it would be in their best interest to take sides.  That only fuels your BPDs' rages.  It's best for your children to bow out of those dramas and for you too. Let your wife face her own rages alone.  And if she keeps that up, she'll be facing them in a padded cell. 

[John Galt]

Wow guys,

Like I said on my other thread,

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SEND ME AN INVOICE FOR TIME SPENT ON ME !


Spams,thanks man.I cannot accept your compliment because I think that a grounded person would do certain things differently,and not accept certain things that I accepted.My wife never ''beat me up'' in that sense.It is like Gary says with his domestic violence light thing.Liz has pushed me,punched my shoulder,scratched me,blocked exits and other similar things.Each one is violence and abuse which I understand,yet it does not hurt physically,just emotionally so I tolerate it and do not retaliate.I know that I am wrong and maybe it is the guy thing(again wrong,I know) but emotionally hurt is different from physical,maybe worst,probaly worse but different.I do not know what my point even is,but the abuse should not be tolerated by anyone from anyone,and you can throw in the verbal abuse as well,which really hurts me BTW.
That being said I will accept your ducks in the row thing.It is so important to understand this,thats why I use the name RUTHLESS,actually to that person who asked me the other day.

JK,right again...hmmmm.One day I will argue you somewhere,somehow someway,hmmmmmmm.Your point always is to people ''your spouse is mentally ill'' what don't you get.You are right,thats why she needs help and no amounts of posts here by me,will help her.No hoping will help her.She needs to help her,and until then we suffer.Easy.

WOJAH,I WILL CAPITALIZE THIS STATEMENT CAUSE I AM SCREAMING.I HAVE NEVER EVER EVER READ ANYTHING ON THE NOOK THAT SO PERFECTLY DESCRIBES EXACTLY WHAT TO DO AS YOUR SECOND TO LAST POST HERE.WOW!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU TANK YOU.


Marc

[wojah]

YOU'RE WELCOME, YOU'RE WELCOME, YOU'RE WELCOME, YOU'RE WELCOME, YOU'RE WELCOME, YOU'RE WELCOME, YOU'RE WELCOME, YOU'RE WELCOME, YOU'RE WELCOME

Now after typing all that in CAPS, my fingers are tired.  :D

Hope things work out for you.  Keep us posted.