what do you SAY when the blame/rage/splitting begins?

[Think About It...]

This is a take-off on the recent thread posted by Kongs Ann, "what do you do when they go into the land of Oz?"

Specifically, what words do you say, when the first arrow of rage pierces your skin?

Prior to SWOE & learning of PD's, I would engage to defend my pride.  I felt like a wounded bear in a corner w/the hunter continuing to poke me with his knife.  I learned the hard way that was the WRONG thing to do.  Didn't matter if my mistake was fact or fiction.

Blame me gently and accurately, and I will take it in a constructive manner.  Falsely accuse me for no reason, and deliver it in a verbally abusive manner - and it gets my defenses hot!  Isn't that human?

But I now know, that in dealing w/our BP partners, being human doesn't always work.  I now know that ANYTHING I say in response to the first attack, can easily escalate the moment.

Sooooo...when that first blaming, flaming arrow comes hurtling towards your heart...(this isn't when they're looking for a hug & a kiss LOL)

I'm looking for some quotes that you have used:
>that allows you to leave without your heart pounding out of your throat & your blood pressure boiling
>that allows you to keep your dignity intact & take the "high road"
>that allows for a time-out to happen correctly, and reconvene, where you talk & resolve things an hour or so later
>that helps you feel proud afterwards that you "kept your cool"...perhaps allowing the bp to see the person in the mirror who really overreacted - them!

I know ruthless has had some luck recently - perhaps more of you can share your words (or non-words!) of wisdom.

Thanks!

[spouseofbp]

This is a take-off on the recent thread posted by Kongs Ann, "what do you do when they go into the land of Oz?"

Specifically, what words do you say, when the first arrow of rage pierces your skin?

Prior to SWOE & learning of PD's, I would engage to defend my pride.  I felt like a wounded bear in a corner w/the hunter continuing to poke me with his knife.  I learned the hard way that was the WRONG thing to do.  Didn't matter if my mistake was fact or fiction.

Blame me gently and accurately, and I will take it in a constructive manner.  Falsely accuse me for no reason, and deliver it in a verbally abusive manner - and it gets my defenses hot!  Isn't that human?

But I now know, that in dealing w/our BP partners, being human doesn't always work.  I now know that ANYTHING I say in response to the first attack, can easily escalate the moment.

Sooooo...when that first blaming, flaming arrow comes hurtling towards your heart...(this isn't when they're looking for a hug & a kiss LOL)

I'm looking for some quotes that you have used:
>that allows you to leave without your heart pounding out of your throat & your blood pressure boiling
>that allows you to keep your dignity intact & take the "high road"
>that allows for a time-out to happen correctly, and reconvene, where you talk & resolve things an hour or so later
>that helps you feel proud afterwards that you "kept your cool"...perhaps allowing the bp to see the person in the mirror who really overreacted - them!

I know ruthless has had some luck recently - perhaps more of you can share your words (or non-words!) of wisdom.

Thanks!

[lennic]

"Look at me...look at my face. I now feel what you feel. Is that what you wished? Tell me please, because I love you, is there any way for this to end?"

L   

[Caribou]

>that allows you to leave without your heart pounding out of your throat & your blood pressure boiling

For me, it is going to take more than a magic quote to prevent this from happening. 

>that allows you to keep your dignity intact & take the "high road"
>that allows for a time-out to happen correctly, and reconvene, where you talk & resolve things an hour or so later
>that helps you feel proud afterwards that you "kept your cool"...perhaps allowing the bp to see the person in the mirror who really overreacted - them!

I try to cut through the surface issue and address the real problem.  For example: 

"This isn't about the fact that I made blueberry pancakes for breakfast when you wanted bacon and eggs (and you didn't tell me until after I made breakfast), this is about the fact that your daughter left on a vacation with her dad yesterday.  I understand that you are feeling bad about this but it is not acceptable for you to take it out on me."

Unfortunately this resulted in two days of the silent treatment but I did feel like my dignity was intact (I didn't get sucked into a ridiculous argument or get angry myself), we were able to discuss the situation later (after the silent treatment) in a rational manner, and she apologized.

The difficulty is that I don't always see that it isn't about the pancakes and bacon until it is too late.

[JoannaK]

First of all, spouse, make sure you understand what she is saying.  You may wish to get some paper and write it down.  Now what was that again, sweetheart?  I need to understand exactly why you are so frustrated.  That may buy you some time so that you don't react impulsively.  She proably won't be able to repeat the same thing twice. 

Then, as caribou suggested, you could make it very clear that she's taking something out on you that isn't your fault.  But then back off.  You might say, as Lenny suggested:  Look, I love you, but I don't like the way you are talking to me and I need to think about the things you said.  Then you leave. 

You are still looking for that "magic quote" (as Caribou calls it) to make things better between you, spouse.  But unless she is willing to do some work on herself to keep your marriage together, nothing will change.  Right now she has no reason to change.  You have separated, but you are still there; still coming around, still working, still hoping.  And she feels free to continue being abusive.

[spouseofbp]

You have separated, but you are still there; still coming around, still working, still hoping.  And she feels free to continue being abusive

yes Joanna,  I know.  I believe there is always hope. Theres always a chance I might be able to salvage my marriage. And while I know that ultimately I cannot control my partner, I can dictate how I behave. And consequently, I can control my own behavior in a way that offers me the best chance of keeping my relationship intact.

She has made some small strides worth note - in stating her "mood swings",  her being "messed up", how she gets "grumpy" ...and even admitting to getting a refill of a pre-mentrual pill - that supposedly helps her w/pms.  At least she's naming SOMETHING of a disorder, tho' it may or may not be accurate. 

She is in CA for her annual sales meeting since Sat thru tomorrow night.  I am back in her house, taking care of her 6yr old daughter in full parent mode, as well as dogs, etc.  I don't see this as just being a "nanny" from her viewpoint.  I think she extended this "trust" to me as maybe sort of a "test"...and I feel great about it.  (Her "pre-bp" daughter & I get along famously...ironic because wiith her mom - there's lots of conflict)

However I am under a time pressure.  The house I rented 4 months ago when I moved out has sold.  I have to pick up and move again by end of March!  If I move somewhere else on my own, it will most likely be farther away, and reinforce our separation even more, furthering us apart.  Truely not what I want.  And I believe in my heart & her heart, not what she wants either.  But I will not live under the conditions that led to my leaving 4 months ago.  My boundaries need to be firm, my dignity intact.

But she still has the ultimate control & final decision power...it's her house!  In the last couple weeks since my rental house sold - she has uttered comments ranging from "it's so nice to have you back here" and "will you stay here & take care of Hannah?" (happy paint-me-white mode) to "have you found another place yet?  No way you're moving in here!" (splitting paint-me-black mode)

Optimistically, I see this event as an opportunity to try & turn my marriage around.  At least, turn around what I am capable of...change for the better for ME, and improving MY behavior.  I admit to MY PART in what has happened.

I'm still in love with her.  I'm still a loyal, committed partner who wants to keep my marriage and who is willing to work hard to do just that. I'm willing to take responsibility for my part in whats happened, to grow and learn, to change when advisable, and to improve my relationship skills. I wont be easily replaced, and I know it.

Thanks Caribou & Lennic for responding.  I will add your quotes to my "handbook"

Keep those successful responses & ideas coming!  We can use all we can get - thanks!

[timeforclarity]

Hi Everyone,

I'm not convinced that all of our BPDSOs are the same, but this is what I've learnt about mine, and how to deal with his garbage:

- when he's in a rage, he's just looking for someone to take his anger out on. This means that what he says is garbage, and he does in fact know it.  When he's incapable of controlling his emotions  (or choosing not to control them), all bets are off and he will try to make someone hurt as much as he is hurting - it just so happens that since we live together, it's usually me in the line of fire - could be anyone (ie) it's really not personal

- since what he's saying is garbage, I can choose to not let it effect me (okay, much easier said then done, but it gets easier with practice). So, I choose to not try to logically discuss something with an individual who at that point in time in incapable of logic.  I remove myself, often without saying anything.  If things haven't gotten too out of hand, I will say something like . .  I can see something has you very upset, but right now its hard for me understand what it is. Perhaps we can discuss this later when we are both in a better mood.  And I walk away.  If he simple lets in with a rage, I just walk away immediately. No angry words, in fact, I try to give him a sad look, like I owuld rather not be doing this, but under these circumstances I have no choice.

- these are my boundries that he is very aware of.  He rages or directs his anger at me, I walk away. He follows me I leave the house. He's tested them a couple of times, but because I have shown I will stick to them, the testing hasn't happened for a long time

- something valuable I learnt about my BPDH: when he's feeling this bad about himself he really hates to be alone. Striking out had been his learned reaction, but my boundry of walking away, to the point of leaving the house if he doesn't leave me alone, has worked wonders at getting him to stop raging at me, stop directing his anger at me, and instead, trying to verbalize exactly what happened to make him feel so bad.  That I can deal with, that's what partners are for.

Good luck!

[JoannaK]

spouse, I remember reading dozens of self-help books when my marriage was shtty.  They all said the same thing:  You can't make the other person do anything; all you can do is work on yourself.  Then the marriage will have to change!  Of course, if you want the marriage to work, you always take these words the wrong way.  You interpret them to mean that you and you alone can make your marriage work.  You can, by yourself, make your spouse want you again, whatever.  It's the "I can be better" mode.  We nons always miss something:  We have the power to change things in our life, but that doesn't mean that the marriage will get better or that the partner will come back to us.  Even boundaries in SWOE.  So many people come here thinking that erecting and maintaining boundaries will make the marriage work again.  But that's not the function of boundaries.  Maybe the marriage will work; maybe it won't.  But either way, you wil be a stronger, better person.

Spouse, you can't fix your marriage by yourself.  She has to be clear in wanting the marriage to get better and she has to be willing to do work with you... and on herself, if she is bp.  You are now on probation perhaps?  She has all the power in the relationship.
Still.  You can make yourself a better, stronger person, spouse, but a better, stronger person would not tolerate the b.s. that you are now tolerating.  You are still thankful for any crumbs she throws your way.  A better, stronger you would not be so satisfied with crumbs from this woman, who, from your description, sounds like a demanding "perfect" butt.  A better, stronger person gets btchy women out his life...  He doesn't think that there is anything good about tolerating a butt.  His goal in life is not winning over a butt a la the hero in Taming of the Shrew.  A better, stronger man doesn't have any interest in a relationship with a shrew.  

No, spouse, you can't fix your marriage by yourself.  No matter how many hoops you jump through.  You probably have done very little to deserve the treatment you are getting, but you are willing to admit your issues.  You know, I was there once.  I have the letters to prove it.  Dozens of letters I wrote to my exh during our "cold" times admitting to this or that failure.  You know what?  As I go back and read those letters, it was clear that I really did nothing wrong in terms of the way two sane, healthy people interact.  It makes me sick to think of how I lowered myself to "fix" the marriage.  It wasn't worth fixing, and, quite frankly, he wasn't worth the effort.  Anyone who made me, a good, kind, attractive, loving, partner, feel that bad wasn't worth it.  It took me years to figure this out, spouse.

So, again...  you can't fix this by yourself.  You can admit to everything in the world, you can try and try and try to be "good", better, best, you can carry the burden of the whole marriage on your shoulders, but if she doesn't want to look at her issues, nothing ultimately will change.  Yeah, you may move back in with her and things will be better for awhile... but ultimately there won't be any progress.  She still has her job and everybody tells her how great she is.  You still idolize her and can't imagine being with anybody else.  She doesn't need to look at the woman in the mirror.

I'm glad that I was able to break free of the chains that bound me to the nasty, demanding man-butt in my life, spouse.  I wish I only had the words to inspire others to do the same.  A commitment of one in a marriage won't work.  Period.  

 

[laker]

Folks,

My wife MIGHT be BPD, but recently she's mentioned that she's not sure. So obviously we're further along than most people because she can discuss it with me etc... Now she recently began taking cymbalta , so she hasn't really had rages, or as I call them "trips" recently. However, we began a new thing also which has helped. When she is annoyed, she lets me know the MINUTE she feels it. She tells me, even if it's mid discussion or if we aren't even talking at all. Once she tells me, I back off... and I let her walk away. In your cases, I can see it's a diff issue because he/she doesn't acknowledge something is wrong. But still, communication with an acknowledgement of at least a very bad temper, helps a LOT. It prepares you to some extent, and even lets you learn some signs from your spouse on what they're going to do right before theyt rip off. Hope that helps?

Drew

[spouseofbp]

Gee thanks!

I have started my "Nook Handbook" of these worthy techniques - I have to practice them to get skilled - before the opportunity comes to try them in "the moment"

The biggest thing I've read here is learning when to shut up & walk away!  I can't talk logic - to the illogical!  I can't talk to nonsense - with common sense! 

I think I always try to defend, fix, rationalize, calm her down, analyze, etc.  Oh trust me, I'm a LOT better than I used to be...you know, the "having to make my point" thing.  I know now that ANY word out of my mouth appears to be a "challenge to fight" to her...  so I have to learn to Zip-it!  - after the initial statement affirming my boundaries.

Time 4 Clarity, I really like your technique!  I am going to practice this one!  I think this may work if I can master it...

Caribou, sounds like the breakfast I made a couple Saturdays ago!  In my case, if I responded by telling her the probably source of her anger, ie, daughter w/ex on vacation (even tho' it would be TRUE)...she would see that as a challenge to engagement on her turf...the turf of ridiculous.

Lennic, thanks. However in my case, if I asked her (in warpath mode) "is there any way for this to end?"  she would certainly respond, "YES GET OUT OF MY LIFE!"  --- perhaps if I used a different word than 'end'  I have told her when she's revving up, "honey please stop this...please".    Nada.  No stopping a speeding locomotive, cuz I'm not Superman.

And Laker, I agree totally.  If a person can be "aware" of their feelings going haywire at the moment, and can name it, there is a much better chance of self-control.  Rather than let your feelings lead you straight to OZ.  I asked her some time ago, "could you please tell me when you start getting angry?"  That cymbalta sounds like the ticket - can I get that on the internet to mix in her morning coffee?   :

And Joanna, to"mirror" her comment back to her is great...I know most of these techniques -just hard to pull them out like a pro in the "heat of the moment".  Tough old habits of reacting defensively are hard to break.  But small steps.

And Joanna, your further posts of what I'm up against in this one-man rescue squad, are taken very seriously.  I know I am limited as to what I can accomplish in helping her help herself.  I guess right now I am focused on just coping with the present situation - and reacting in better, more appropriate ways.  Buying time, perhaps?  Maybe.  SWOE mentions that majority of people w/BPD are 40 & under...

I remember when I was 40 like my wife - I was much more "reactive" and much less wisdom than now - almost 50.  Come on, baby - grow out of it!  (and get some meds)

Any additional thoughts are greatly appreciated!

[cdrw]

Hi,

From my own experience, neither arguing back nor humouring a BPD partner works. In either case, doing so only seems to fuel their emotional state even more. Arguing or resiting merely provokes a stronger emotional response; agreeing validates it.

Not easy, but you have to remember that much of the words have no literal sense. They are just a means of venting. My approach is usually just to listen and perhaps ask for further information on what they are unhappy about.

This nutrality is not provocative, and I find usually results in their running out of steam for loss of ammunition.

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