1 week after BP broke up with me... help

[Think About It...]

So last Saturday, after agonizing for weeks over the ultimatum from my BP over losing my "relationship" with her or having to drop my best friend, I told her I would not drop my best friend. This is a pattern on her part of escalating something every 4-5 months to the point of break-up...I choose a healthy relationship and laid out 5 distinct steps/boundaries if we were to work this out...the first being us seeing a counselor together BEFORE we talked again.

 She dumped me after that conversation.  That was Sat. morning. I didn't hear from her all weekend. then she starts calling at 5am on Monday morning. "We made a mistake with this break-up...we need to drop everything and focus on "us" and make this work" (notice she broke up with me and made this best friend thing an ultimatum but has yet to take ANY responsibility for any of it...it's always "we"  or "our" problems...) I called her back because I knew she would show up at my work place and cause a huge scene...I told her again, my boundaries, and what I wanted if we were to even try to move this forward. she basically, after 45 minutes of trying to make her point over and over again...said..."okay, you are making this an ultimatum, you are breaking us up...I'll send you your stuff..."

so I commit to NC. I go away on a trip to spend time with close friends for 5 days. I get back and she's waiting for me at the airport! AHHHH! with flowers to boot! she caused a huge scene..."i can't live without you...we've both contributed to this...I'll go to therapy...but I won't go to couples therapy though...your problems include x,y and z and I'm willing to help you work through your problems...I'm asking you to 'be  big' and help me through mine...I NEED you...don't do this...don't throw 'us' away"...etc. etc...

I said again that I laid out my boundary conditions for her as next steps...the first of which she constantly refuses to by saying she won't go to couples therapy with me...I think it's because we did that twice before and didn't get past the 2nd session because she found some fault in the therapist because she was starting to get called on her sht...

anyway. she ended up abruptly turning and leaving when she said she wanted me to "come home" to her...I said my home was stable, safe and healthy...we didn't have that and I certainly don't see that in her...

this morning...i got a page from her saying she loves me and her life is nothing without me as her partner.

I'm so torn! I want to hope that we can work it out...I am definitely an optimist but the patterns are written on the wall! all my friends say RUN! don't go back...don't even try to work this out with her through therapy!  I'm torn because if she came back and said I'll do therapy with you...I would be tempted...

Also, ...here's a BIG question...we have been doing this off and on thing for 9 years. At 6 years, during a couples counseling session where I was seeing the counselor solo and BP saw her solo, counselor told me she really thought my girlfriend was BPD. I am pretty sure she didn't tell my GF.

If we are or are not to move forward, I care about my currently ex-GF and really want to tell her what I've learned about BPD and that I think she has is...in fact, I know she does! After all I've read, she's classic and an extreme case!

what do I do? If we go to therapy together, do I bring that up first thing?

I don't want to talk to BP without the help of a third party counselor...she is too savvy at manipulating my words, thoughts and feelings into making me feel like I'm the crazy one or the one causing all this mess...and I KNOW THAT I'm not!

Help! I need advice! I love her underneath the crazy behavior from her BPD. My dream would be to make this work but I am so confused right now.

I really want to ask ex-BP GF for time...like a month or so to let all this  dust clear on my own feelings...but my guess is that she is just going to keep pushing me...showing up in unlikely places, calling, etc...but maybe not...I just don't know...

[izzymae]

So last Saturday, after agonizing for weeks over the ultimatum from my BP over losing my "relationship" with her or having to drop my best friend, I told her I would not drop my best friend. This is a pattern on her part of escalating something every 4-5 months to the point of break-up...I choose a healthy relationship and laid out 5 distinct steps/boundaries if we were to work this out...the first being us seeing a counselor together BEFORE we talked again.

 She dumped me after that conversation.  That was Sat. morning. I didn't hear from her all weekend. then she starts calling at 5am on Monday morning. "We made a mistake with this break-up...we need to drop everything and focus on "us" and make this work" (notice she broke up with me and made this best friend thing an ultimatum but has yet to take ANY responsibility for any of it...it's always "we"  or "our" problems...) I called her back because I knew she would show up at my work place and cause a huge scene...I told her again, my boundaries, and what I wanted if we were to even try to move this forward. she basically, after 45 minutes of trying to make her point over and over again...said..."okay, you are making this an ultimatum, you are breaking us up...I'll send you your stuff..."

so I commit to NC. I go away on a trip to spend time with close friends for 5 days. I get back and she's waiting for me at the airport! AHHHH! with flowers to boot! she caused a huge scene..."i can't live without you...we've both contributed to this...I'll go to therapy...but I won't go to couples therapy though...your problems include x,y and z and I'm willing to help you work through your problems...I'm asking you to 'be  big' and help me through mine...I NEED you...don't do this...don't throw 'us' away"...etc. etc...

I said again that I laid out my boundary conditions for her as next steps...the first of which she constantly refuses to by saying she won't go to couples therapy with me...I think it's because we did that twice before and didn't get past the 2nd session because she found some fault in the therapist because she was starting to get called on her sht...

anyway. she ended up abruptly turning and leaving when she said she wanted me to "come home" to her...I said my home was stable, safe and healthy...we didn't have that and I certainly don't see that in her...

this morning...i got a page from her saying she loves me and her life is nothing without me as her partner.

I'm so torn! I want to hope that we can work it out...I am definitely an optimist but the patterns are written on the wall! all my friends say RUN! don't go back...don't even try to work this out with her through therapy!  I'm torn because if she came back and said I'll do therapy with you...I would be tempted...

Also, ...here's a BIG question...we have been doing this off and on thing for 9 years. At 6 years, during a couples counseling session where I was seeing the counselor solo and BP saw her solo, counselor told me she really thought my girlfriend was BPD. I am pretty sure she didn't tell my GF.

If we are or are not to move forward, I care about my currently ex-GF and really want to tell her what I've learned about BPD and that I think she has is...in fact, I know she does! After all I've read, she's classic and an extreme case!

what do I do? If we go to therapy together, do I bring that up first thing?

I don't want to talk to BP without the help of a third party counselor...she is too savvy at manipulating my words, thoughts and feelings into making me feel like I'm the crazy one or the one causing all this mess...and I KNOW THAT I'm not!

Help! I need advice! I love her underneath the crazy behavior from her BPD. My dream would be to make this work but I am so confused right now.

I really want to ask ex-BP GF for time...like a month or so to let all this  dust clear on my own feelings...but my guess is that she is just going to keep pushing me...showing up in unlikely places, calling, etc...but maybe not...I just don't know...

[moesha]

You have set your boundary.  You will not have a relationship with her w/out couples therapy.  This is the one thing she consistently refuses. 

She manipulates, tries to get you to back down on the one non-negotiable.  Why?  Because it's non-negotiable.  If she bullies you into caving on the couples therapy issues, she is back in control.  Of you and the relationship. 

This is a power struggle.  It is not love, not on her part.  Her "I'm nothing w/out you" manipulation is not proof that she realizes you are special.  It's the expression of a deeply disturbed, immature person.  A healthy person will be disappointed and sad about the end of a relationship.  A healthy person will NOT consider her life unworthy of living because a relationship ends.  So if you are serious about making a wise decision for yourself, any romantic fantasies about her dramatic appearances at the airport and declarations of undying love need a serious dash of cold water.

It's easy to show up at the airport with roses and look like a romantic hero.  She gets lots of attention for that stunt and it satisfies her drama queen fantasies. 

It's a lot harder to stick to therapy and treat your partner with respect, love and consideration consistenly.  But which action shows real love? 

Izzy, you don't negotiate with a terrorist.  If she wants the relationship, she must earn her way back in.  That means it is HER job to find a therapist; HER job to control her behavior; HER job to work her treatment program and HER job to win back your trust.  That is her homework BEFORE she gets the privilege of being your partner. 

I know it's not easy, but may all your decisions be this obvious. 

[JoannaK]

It's pretty clear to me, izzy.  You've told her you insist on another round of couple's counseling.  That may not be your only requirement, but it's your first step.  And she refuses.  Any time she contacts you, you need to end the contact very clearly and succinctly:  Nothing without couple's counseling.  Then hang up... or walk away. 

About the month to think:  That's good.  You need the time.  But if she can't manage to stay away from you for a month, what are the chances that she will actually be able to actually follow up on any kind of recovery? 

You said you love her underneath all of the BPD stuff.  That's something that so, so many people here say.  But a BPD person is a BPD person.  The BPD isn't a cover; it's part of their personality.  All of their actions, thoughts, and feelings are colored by BPD.  That's the unfortunate reality of this disorder.  Usually the good "sweet" stuff, like the flowers at the airport, comes out of the same source as the bad BPD stuff.  Sweetness is often a form of manipulation, whether it is conscious manipulation or not.  There is no "her" separate from her BPD unfortunately. 

[istayed]

I told her I would not drop my best friend.

I choose a healthy relationship and laid out 5 distinct steps/boundaries if we were to work this out...the first being us seeing a counselor together BEFORE we talked again.

I told her again, my boundaries, and what I wanted if we were to even try to move this forward.

I said again that I laid out my boundary conditions for her as next steps...

I said my home was stable, safe and healthy...we didn't have that and I certainly don't see that in her...

I want to hope that we can work it out.

I'm torn because if she came back and said I'll do therapy with you...I would be tempted...

I care about my currently ex-GF and really want to tell her what I've learned about BPD and that I think she has is...in fact, I know she does!

I don't want to talk to BP without the help of a third party counselor

I really want to ask ex-BP GF for time...like a month or so

These are the facts as you've laid them out. Kudos on your clear delineation of your boundaries/conditions. Kudos also on your steadfast resolve.

Look again at the items above that have to do with YOUR wishes. You want to keep your other friends. You want a healthy relationship. You want to talk with her, but only with a counselor at first. You want more time to examine your own thoughts. These are all fine, healthy things to want. Don't let her browbeat you into anything less than what you want.

You said that if she came back and said she'd do therapy with you, you would be tempted. I assume you mean that if she agreed to seek therapy with you, then you would immediately get back together and resume your relationship while going to therapy. Think about this instead. If she agrees to therapy, what would happen if you agreed to go, but said that you want to use the therapy sessions to work on your relationship and to examine what's been going wrong between the two of you, AND that you want to stay separated as you go through this work together.

If you did it this way, then when she gets mad and quits therapy, you wouldn't have to go through a separation. And if she stays in therapy with you, you will be able to address some of her BPD behaviors with the therapist present. Telling her or the therapist your suspicions about BPD at the outset would probably not be a good idea. Addressing specific problems and analyzing them will probably result in a better outcome for everyone. If you have individual sessions with the therapist, it would be fine to bring up your thoughts about BPD then.

You've done this how many times before? Izzy, it's time to try something different. It's time for you to make use of the lessons you've learned all the times before.

Wishing you the happiness YOU deserve,
spam

[izzymae]

First of all...Thank you for all of your support! I do take it all to heart and it helps me immensely.

I got an email today and I'll paste a bit of it here so you can see the type of seemingly completely sane communication BP is capable of...

"id like you to consider sitting down 1 on 1 to hear and address each others concerns and needs, before seeing the “third party”. 

if it doesnt work, then we can consider a therapist.  but i do know that we can do this together, rather than in an office.

you got us great books and we didnt pursue them in earnest.  that would have been a really great developmental exercise for us – to progressively read each chapter in tandem, and then discuss – as we initially intended. theres a lot of tools we can develop ourselves with helpful references.  we got caught up in the honeymoon phase and crashed…again.

but we did have some things come up that we talked through, agreed how to avoid in the future with alternative behaviors, and were successful.  we just need/ed to do more of it.

i believe that especially now, we both are more apt to restrain from blow ups because theres so much at stake.    what happened has broken my heart, and i know you feel the same.   my hawk looked down at all we have to lose – each day without you as my partner is sand down the hourglass.  we both need to reconnect in  our love and compassion for one another.   we cant be successful without it.  i am in that space.   the point im trying to make is the therapist can offer up a million “tools” – but none will work without love and compassion.   why cant we focus on cultivating our love and compassion right now, and build our toolset outside of the third partys office?  were both very hurt right now, and in my opinion, the emergency recovery response is to console each other.  despite the fact that we havent “fixed” our conflict per se, and we know that we dont see eye to eye on all of it, it doesnt mean that im not sorry that i hurt you, and it most certainly doesnt mean that i dont truly care that youre feeling so hurt.    i need to feel the same from you.   stepping back, rather than forward is not the thing to do.

i know you disagree with me on this.  this is a difficult situation because for a couple to truly benefit from therapy, both individuals have to trust and have faith in the process.     honestly, i currently dont.   but you do, and you wont even talk to me without the “third party” present.   i have very negative associations…very negative…with respect to our previous 2 attempts.   i cannot simply “erase” those associations – i wish i could, and i would, but i cant.     i do intend to continue my personal therapy work, and expect the same on your end, knowing that the individual benefits implicitly translate to our union.   "

What really gets me about this is that she's sounding like this was in some way "my" decision to be broken up right now...she did the breaking up. She is making it sound like a couple's therapist would be a show stopper...I honestly believe it would because she can't handle the truth that comes out in the presence of a third party. But then she throws in all of those lines that snag me...I don't even know who the therapist is she is seeing...she wanted to see a hypnotist last we talked...after reading through many posts, it sounds like she needs a psychiartrist...

I'm feeling the immense shift of everything being my fault...and my cross to bear, my "decision"...when it is really her's right?

she makes me feel crazy...

but honestly, the last week without all the drama in my life has been peaceful. Maybe i'm still in shock, but I haven't been sad or depressed because of all of this mess...I've been peaceful, even energized...hopeful...for myself...

I'm just afraid in 2 months, I'll be pining and missing her and wondering if I made the right decision...I know I know...what decision? It is her decision to seek therapy and get better and go to couples therapy with me...but she is so resistant to it. I am feeling like it may not even be worth it to go with her ...spend the money, take the time off from work for her to bail again...

ugh! all this drives me crazy...what would you write back to the message I posted above?

Thanks!

 

[JoannaK]

Re-engagements work in so many ways.  They can be so sweet; they can sound so, so reasonable. 

izzymae, I can't remember all of your posts.  But tell us one thing:  Do you really believe that she has diagnosable BPD?  Or perhaps many traits?  If you do honestly believe that she has BPD, sitting down and reading books together won't help.  Things may seem better for a week or two or a month or two, but she will need more, much more.  Actually seeing a couple's counselor when one of the parties has BPD or something like it is often a recipe for disaster. 

But you want a third party there for a reason.  Ask yourself what that reason is.  It sounds to me like a very reasonable boundary if you really believe she has BPD. 

There is a reason you set that boundary.  Think about it.

[Ash]

Keep strong on your boundaries.  No matter what, respect your gut.

If she cares about you as much as she says, she'll tone her act down and respect your boundaries - or at least ask for a reasonable compromise on the boundaries.  Like if you say "No contact at all for 30 days" she might reasonably counter with "One phone call per week / one cup of coffee at a neutral location once a week."  If the counter-offer rings true and you think it would give you an opportunity to let the dust settle AND test the land mine field for more instability, go with it.

At least, that's what worked with my husband and I.  My recollection is that I would dump him every 6 weeks.  He says it was every 2 weeks.  Heh.

[izzymae]

It's now been 2 weeks since my BP GF broke up with me in a dramatic way. Thanks for all of your support. I am sticking like glue to my boundaries.

Ex-BP GF left a message last night saying that I was right about all of the erratic behaviors that have been going on and she took total responsibility in the message for all of this mess we are in. She is going to take a few month medical leave from work(her work has been very stressful a contributer to her unhappiness) and see a psychiatrist.

She wants to go couples counseling with me and see if we can figure things out. In a previous email I told her that going to counseling does not mean that we are back together...and that we have a lot of work to do before we can even think about being a "couple" again.

She seems genuine and it's the first time she has ever admitted to any real problems on her end.

now I'm wondering what to do as next steps...how to get ready for counseling together...how to bring up the BPD issue...

I'm also very scared. a big part of me doesn't want to open up and be hurt again. I read all the posts here and a few folks have success stories, a few have success at working it out with their partners, but most say it never changes. As an optimist, of course this new development makes me feel like there is some hope.

I realize that I will have to stay strong in my boundaries.

Does anyone have any threads to point me to or any advice as I move into couples therapy with ex-BP GF?

thanks and hope everyone is having a good weekend.

[Oy-vey!]

So many people here have provided excellent advice to others about how someone with BPD must work on themself before getting into a "couples" situation.

I would suggest that you be patient - let her get into her own therapy.  She needs to work on her SELF before she can be part of a couple.  Give her that time to do it.  It is your gift to her - time to address her issues.

Once she begins her own therapy, then you can begin to think about going to couples therapy.  You said something, though, that puzzles me.  That if you go to couples therapy with her that does not mean the two of you are a couple.  That is VERY ambiguous on your part.  Couples therapy means you ARE  couple and want to work out your issues to remain a couple.

What is it exactly that you are expecting from couples therapy?  For her to look at herself & fix herself?  (That is an individual therapy exercise).  Maybe you can spend some time writing down what it is you want from couples therapy, then make sure they are realistic.  Mixed messages to ANYONE can be damaging, but especially to someone with BPD.