a 3-monthly plan to save a relationship - any tips?

[Think About It...]

HI everybody,

I"m inbetween staying and leaving. Thats why i post in different places here at BPDFamily.

We had a difficult week. So i had time to think more clear and when i looked at my role in our relationship, i saw that i also or even less did my best to make it more loving. Non-BPD's also make mistakes ;-) Like sending special cards, to ask him for dinner, to make daytrips. I also did not really say what i need in a relationship (i think). I know that in 'normal relationships' are also problems like this: more fight than doing nice things.

SO... My idea at the moment is, that i want to see what all happens the next three months. Like analysing. My bf can say: things are going bad! - when we had a fight the day before and the rest of the week was loving. So i'd like to analyse things myself, and also together later.
I want to keep a diary of all those days. Write down my good and bad things, his good and bad things.
Write down how we/i/he can make this more loving.
And also things i can do for myself.

Does anyone ever did something like that, does anybody have tips?

I can start with this i can do better:
- I'm a lot at home, i work from there - i'm looking for an office
- I'm a lot at home and dont do the courses i wanted
- I don't sport enough, so that he has  some time to miss me
- I don' surprise him anymore (it's a different mindset if you have a lot of fights)
- etc.

There's also a list of things he can do better;-)
There are also things we can do better.
I could not find something like this on BPDFamily, maybe i overlooked?

Thanks in advance!
Denise

[denise]

HI everybody,

I"m inbetween staying and leaving. Thats why i post in different places here at BPDFamily.

We had a difficult week. So i had time to think more clear and when i looked at my role in our relationship, i saw that i also or even less did my best to make it more loving. Non-BPD's also make mistakes ;-) Like sending special cards, to ask him for dinner, to make daytrips. I also did not really say what i need in a relationship (i think). I know that in 'normal relationships' are also problems like this: more fight than doing nice things.

SO... My idea at the moment is, that i want to see what all happens the next three months. Like analysing. My bf can say: things are going bad! - when we had a fight the day before and the rest of the week was loving. So i'd like to analyse things myself, and also together later.
I want to keep a diary of all those days. Write down my good and bad things, his good and bad things.
Write down how we/i/he can make this more loving.
And also things i can do for myself.

Does anyone ever did something like that, does anybody have tips?

I can start with this i can do better:
- I'm a lot at home, i work from there - i'm looking for an office
- I'm a lot at home and dont do the courses i wanted
- I don't sport enough, so that he has  some time to miss me
- I don' surprise him anymore (it's a different mindset if you have a lot of fights)
- etc.

There's also a list of things he can do better;-)
There are also things we can do better.
I could not find something like this on BPDFamily, maybe i overlooked?

Thanks in advance!
Denise

[been there]

   Hi Denise,

   Clearly look at what you really want in your relationship, and go from there. I don't have any advise, except to be honest to yourself and your bf. #months is a good amount of time, but what then?

   Take care, Mark

[jimfly]

Hi Denise,

If you're looking for a way to gain some perspective over these next few months, I have a quick tip.  I started a spreadsht where I track a few key things for every day.  Then I have a graph that automatically updates w/ the new data that I input.  The columns most relevant to me right now are:  level (intensity of episodes), suicidality-her, suicidality-me.  This way I can personally see that the rages DO come at least once a week.  Plus, in Excel you can set a "Trendline" on the graph so you can basically see the "average" level of intensity (or whatever column you choose).  This helps you better see if, over the long haul, things are getting better or worse.

On really bad days (or perhaps really good days) I write a bit in a journal.  Especially on the bad days, I try to document things as precisely and completely as possible (even noting the exact times that things happen).  This helps to make sure I can keep a grip on reality and remember what happened, in case my wife decides to gaslight later (change the course of events).

One thing to consider as far as things that you need - are there any hobbies or interests that you used to do, but are no longer able to?  Also, is there something you have always wanted to do, but never been able to?

Good luck,
JF

[At_Bay]

I agree about a journal as it will allow you to look back and see what might be worrying you or making you feel bad. If he has promised to stop inappropriate behavior, but does not, it can help you see the scope of the problem and what to expect in the future. If he is considerate and does not repeat the behavior when it causes a problem, that will be apparent also. Just notice what his attitude seems to be about you and your feelings. Someone who cares will have no problem demonstrating that just about everyday. Happy people do not fight constantly.

I guess I'd say to think about what behaviors need to be eliminated in order for it to be a healthy relationship. If he is angry without any provocation, you will see this in the three months probably. Anything that resembles immaturity like making threats or sulking will probably not go away. Use your journal to see how often it happens. It should be unusual to see them upset over small things. An immature person cannot handle the small stuff.

Keep reading and posting. There are lots of stories here and I hope you get some ideas.

At Bay

[Ivory]

If you want to try a good marriage book, try Harville Hendrix's book.  He has a very solid discussion at the start on why you are attracted, then a bunch of good exercises that can really help break through issues.  I'd guess working through his book would take you about 3 months if you're serious about it.  It's a way to structure a serious plan.  Good luck if you try it.  --Ivory

[elphaba]

Denise,

I have already posted to you on the other thread but, my suggestions are as follows:

1.  Read Stop Walking on Eggshells (if you have not already)
2.  Journal - great way to keep track of your feelings and the oz-ish behavior patterns
3.  Take time for yourself, work on you, self-affirmation is EXTREMELY important
3.  Let your inner child out to play once in a while
4.  Take responsibility for your 50%, demand that he take his 50%

Know that if you are dealing with someone with BPD, you will likely always give more than you get in return, if you can accept that.   Set your limits and if he is not making the efforts and taking on his 50%, you've got to prepare yourself to be willing to say goodbye ... self-preservation...

I hope that you find some happiness...the life of a committed non is exhausting and frustrating, but, so worth the work when our SO really starts recovery.  They deserve love despite the difficulty they cause.. but, more importantly so do YOU!

[denise]

Hi everyone,

Thanks everyone for your replies, i appreciate it a lot!
The last weeks were very bad here, everything was almost exploding... going or staying etc. No talking just fighting.
But yesterday we had a talk, went much better as i expected, but not so long... but well managed if i may compliment myself (talked about my 6 points, not allowing jokes or change of conversation or wordsoups or blabla but only concrete arguments, and sticking to the points)...
It was the first real talk in months really... and i have more hope now.
We both want to go on together, a big yes from both sides - we still love each other deeply. My doubt about his side made me more confused, was he waiting till i broke up?
No, he still has dreams for a house for us, for travelling, to be nice to eachother etc. Well so do i.
But it will be difficult, and it will be more than just words...

From now on we talk every monday. I'm sure that i have to initiate that, but i will.
One step at a time.
---------------------------
 @ Mark,

Thats a good one.
I looked at what i need in a relationship, wat i would like and what i definetely DONT want and will not allow.
I know that i cant expect magic now, nor can I expect too much of a relationship with an BPD boyfriend. But he has to give what he can, as i do.

And what after 3 months? If no improvement - therapy or break-up.

---------------------------
  @ Jimfly,
A journal is also a great plan. A graph i have to think of, how do i set this up etc, but i think my journal on the comp also gives a lot information.

The hobbies/things i like to do... is also good to think of. I can do a lot now, i just didn't do it enough. That's not really his fault, although he tries to keep me out of activities where i _could_ meet other men.
I do need those hobbies/interests now it's very important. I also do know that IF we break up, i can fill more lifes with all the things i want to do and learn. Which makes the black hole that lies behind 'breaking up' more easy to manage. 

---------------------------
  @ AtBay
Thinking about what behaviour i don't want anymore was very difficult because i couldn't see clear anymore. 'Word-soup' i read somewhere and that is something that he is very good at. So chaos. Now i have it more clear because i wrote it down.
I have a journal now and we had a talk (we talked about 6 points i wrote down), and i keep on doing that and writing down every outcome of those talks.
He can be very good in saying: you was so mean to me this week! And i can now/later look to monthly periods and get him back to earth when i have 'the' facts (in my words). This worked out good in our last talk.
I did see and do know that this one talk could not change everything, but it was a start of making problems concrete and not just arguing and fighting on the surface.

---------------------------
  @ Ivory
I tried to find that book (here in europe) but have to order it at amazon. Your answer helped me thinking about what i lost in our relationship and what i can do better. This whole thing was a spiral down, also on my side. Tactics as not cleaning my part when he didn't clean his part of the house for example also didn't help... only gave him an argument on saying that i _also_ didn't do my part. Which was true. Maybe not the best example here...
But i also thought about the attraction-part, why did i get attracted and i started seeiing the nice things also... and that there are some positive and negative things that we BOTH have. So sometimes i project also on him. I can also be chaotic or not finish projects for example. The thing is though that i worked on me much longer than he did (i think). So it frustrates me when he is not so far in a proces as i am. 

---------------------------
 @ Elphaba

Excellent tips!
Walking On Eggshells was out of order at the bookstore, so i have to order one. I need it!
How are you doing now? I didn't see you post for a few days...
Hope your doing well? I really hope to read something of you...

Thanks again,
I have not my whole plan for 3 months on paper yet, but i will make a list and post up here.

Love Denise..

[elphaba]

Denise,

Nice to see you back at BPDFamily - sorry it has been a rough couple of weeks for you, but, glad to see that the two of you had a productive talk, quite a feat in the BPD world.     You absolutely should compliment yourself, it takes alot of patience and selfcontrol to really talk to our BPDso's about anything without it ending up in some sort of blaming rage.

Things on my end have calmed down a little... I'll post more this morning.

Keep to a plan, it is easy for non's to get caught up in our love for our SO and lose track of ourselves.

Defy Gravity...

- Elphie

[denise]

Hi Elphaba,

So happy that its more quiet there at your place 

My plan is not totally worked out because of the stress here, and me thinking/reading about relationships, BPD and what i want...
I didn't do enough for myself, to distract myself from all this. Have to say it was also not really possible.

But here it was hell AGAIN. We both didn't  sleep all night, our rithme was a little changed and some people came to check the electricity this morning. So i asked bf yesterday when he wanted to clean the house. It does need some cleaning. He didn't want to answer. Finally at the end of the evening he said he wanted to do it in the morning... (What a time.) To make a long story short: we had nice hours, laughing, making jokes etc. He was very stressed because of this: cleaning the house, and electricity people coming along. (Whats the big deal here?)

Then he got very bad two times. I put a pan on the floor for instance, and he got totally mad when he stepped on it. I could take him out of the rage by telling that he always puts things on the floor and i cleaned the whole room (part of the house that i always clean)...
He got angry later that he didn't get my piece of chocolat. We both had one, he ate his sooner than me. But i just wanted to keep mine to eat later? "He allready lost weight because of me, he really needed to eat..." The whole fridge is full of food!
I stayed calm and explained him. I did not curse.

Between the angerattacks he came back to me, telling me he loved me, hugged me, made jokes etc.
I wrote everything down in my journal and was BADLY shocked. This is not real, this is crazy!
All this after our talk! And it got more bad...

Later he went hysteric in the morning. I started to clean allready, totally tired but heyy you have to do what you have to do.
He told me he wanted to break up, i could go home, i distroyed him, his nose blead (it is going not so good with him because he smokes pot the WHOLE day and doesn't eat good enough, that with heartproblems, but thats most of all his responsibility) and it was all my foult i drank to much coffee, smoked to much was a bad influence... i was crazy, his friends and family also thought so... it was his house, i never paid the rent (i did), he threw something at the door... i couldn't smoke anymore in the room... i could not leave the room before the man came, we would not open the door, or he would destroy something from me etc. etc.
IT WAS REALLY BAD. I was also a little afraid and felt UNSAFE. I stayed cool and did nothing bad, but i could said that he couldnt be proud of himself this way and that my respect for him was gone.

Later he did say, i feel so sick the whole time, thats why im aggressive. (As if its my fault, or responsibility, yes i could take better care of himi but im not his mother nor servant!) He is good at heart but goes way to far now... and i cant stay here like this then he thinks my borders are this low.

So now i am here, packed half of my bag, i'm totally tired and dont know what to do. Yes get out of here. Sleep a few hours here on the couch...
Go to a hotel here and find an appartment and arrange everything... here is also my sportschool..
or go to my country and relax there first...
Or wait here, pretend normal and get new appartment and move everything in... (but than i dont give a hint that i dont take this)
Aargh. Im too tired to think here.

It's all on one day.. looks also that his control is slipping, his work is gone, i take more control etc...
But this is not what i want! He needs therapy REALLY BAD !

Just wanted to let this all out, it s really confronting me this...

love denise
 :'( ?

[elphaba]

I know your pain, it is so confusing when they are on this roller coaster and we are strapped in behind them taking all of the hills and screaming all the way down!

Denise...you are not alone, you are stronger than you think you are and you have friends here on BPDFamily who will listen and give you advice from either inside or the other side of OZ...

Take care of you, get out if you need to - DEFY GRAVITY!

[denise]

HI elphaba,

Thanks for your words. Yess i'm in and out of oz. I'm still here though. This can not go on like this.

I just wrote down the words of the stupid fights to remember myself later. But i felt also ashamed.
Slept for hours here and my bf is again in the good-mood. Normal so to say.
My bag is still packed, but there are a lot of papers i still want to copy... i don't know if i have to go or not. I'm in the fog. Stupid not to go, but i'm afraid he paints me black when i go and i don't get anything back. Other way round he always says: you know i would come and try to get you back, i love you.
Sure my friends would say so... But he will not hurt or hit me, that i know. But emotionally though.

He came to give me a hug when i was on the couch in the other room. He said that he would threw his pipe away. So only smokes joints now. That's allready one thing.
This guy really needs therapy other ways it's no way we can go on like this. This is no life.
I really recognise a lot here on BPDFamily and was on a forum for Borderlines too (well moderated) where the people could explain very well what his moods were about. Everything seems to fall together.
 

So in my plan: THERAPY.
And: take very good care of ME first.


love, denise

[denise]

hi everybody,

wanted to give an update.
i wasnt on the internet for very long because i have not internet here where i live now. 

i left for 1,5 week. he wanted me back but did not change. did not clean the house when i came back and did not get food... he did bring me home by car from the station.
in a few day we had fights again. he started to yell about anything. after a few day i went away again.
he called his family to say he missed me soo much and did not want to loose me. i didnt answer the phone.
later i called him. he understood that i had to leave.

everything goes more bad here.  he doesnt want to see his familiy anymore, he wants only some money because he worked there in the company some while. he sad bad names to his mother, doesnt want to speak to me anymore. a few days ago he just wanted me to come back and live together (but we could not talk and he dont want therapy)
he paints more and more people black. he has angerattacks, doesnt sleep a lot, his house is a total mess, he threathens to kill himself, put a knife on his fists (to let me stay one more night)... he believes what he says and everybody has foult.

i feel so sad for him. how to help? not our relationship, thats part 2... but as a friend?
he's going rockbottom! maybe he has to, but it is so sad...
next month a dokter comes by but he has to accept the help, he doesnt have to...

help
i miss him also offcourse.. but i stay strong...

good wishes to everyone here at BPDFamily... wish i could be here more 

love, denise

[spouseofbp]

Like sending special cards, to ask him for dinner, to make daytrips

I did this all the time - to try to break 'silent treatment'  I guess that was groveling...
But I'm really a nice, caring, laughing, thoughtful person.  And I really wanted to help her smile.

I not as motivated to 'cater' to her that way so much anymore.  I believe it enabled her, by appearing like I put her on a pedestal.  Like I couldn't live without her.  And told her in her mind, "i've still got him"

And when she dissed me - I turned the other cheek - and asked for another slap.  Because I'm nice.  And she would thank me in soft words...but then forget. 

And many cards, roses, etc, have been thrown in the trash less than 24 hours after I gave them...because I did something "wrong!"

it takes alot of patience and selfcontrol to really talk to our BPDso's about anything without it ending up in some sort of blaming rage.

Elphaba said it straight.  The heart-to-heart talk you had, Denise, sounds like many of the same talks my wife & I had.  But it just doesn't stick.  Plans discussed don't get initiated (unless we push for it, as you said)  Sht gets dumped again.  And the heart-to-heart is forgotten, or thrown away, because of what "just transpired"

The other night I talked to my wife for 3 hours.  That was the first night in my new apartment.  It was actually sane.  I told her before hanging up, "we need to reach over and pat ourselves on the back right now honey - this was a 'successful' discussion!"

I patted myself on the back so she could hear it.  She said, "i can't"

Coping with borderline behavior is so exhausting!  It's HIGH MAINTENANCE

Good luck, take care of YOU, and enjoy newfound strength as you live apart.