Sliding backwards...

[Think About It...]

Things have been sliding backwards for about a week and a half now.  My wife had been doing so well but lately I have noticed a shift in her attitude. 

The latest occurred yesterday.  My wife backed her car into my childs car and did about $500 worth of damage to her car and probably $1,000 worth of damage to my childs car.  She is adamant that it is my fault because my child offered to park the car at another house when my child left for college and I said I would take care of it later (when I have someone to give me a ride back from the other house).  My wife said that she should not have to look backwards when backing out of the driveway.  (As a side note: it is not unusual for my vehicle or my other driving age childs vehicle to be parked in the driveway.)

I didnt handle the situation very well.  I turned off my phone after the second phone call at work about it.  Then later when I turned my phone on and she persisted about it being my fault and started saying hurtful things, I finally said “fine, Ill take responsibility for you backing into my childs car.  Now what has changed (i.e. has the damage to the cars magically disappeared)?”  I know better than to engage her when she is in this mode; I just lost it.

I feel like I need to get back into a good place and get a better attitude for dealing with episodes like this instead of letting it get to me.

[Caribou]

Things have been sliding backwards for about a week and a half now.  My wife had been doing so well but lately I have noticed a shift in her attitude. 

The latest occurred yesterday.  My wife backed her car into my childs car and did about $500 worth of damage to her car and probably $1,000 worth of damage to my childs car.  She is adamant that it is my fault because my child offered to park the car at another house when my child left for college and I said I would take care of it later (when I have someone to give me a ride back from the other house).  My wife said that she should not have to look backwards when backing out of the driveway.  (As a side note: it is not unusual for my vehicle or my other driving age childs vehicle to be parked in the driveway.)

I didnt handle the situation very well.  I turned off my phone after the second phone call at work about it.  Then later when I turned my phone on and she persisted about it being my fault and started saying hurtful things, I finally said “fine, Ill take responsibility for you backing into my childs car.  Now what has changed (i.e. has the damage to the cars magically disappeared)?”  I know better than to engage her when she is in this mode; I just lost it.

I feel like I need to get back into a good place and get a better attitude for dealing with episodes like this instead of letting it get to me.

[John Galt]

Thats the key Mr. Caribou-

You have to get a better attitude and get into a better place,because Bpds( mine and yours and others) really do not wish to accept responsibility for their actions at those moments.

Engaging is fruitless at that point yet she will come around (much like the missing silverware)

Ask any police officer whose fault it was ?

Ask any judge what he would rule?

Ask any driver if they must look back and whose fault it is?

Ask a childs mother if her child was crossing your driveway at that point in time and (god forbid) was hit whose fault it was ?

Do not answer these questions, you and I both know the answers.

When she thinks about this ( cause shes' smart and creative,and also Mrs.Caribou) she knows the truth, and by you dropping it, I think that will actually force her to think about what she said more seriously.

Small steps forward,and sometimes backwards too my friend,

Marc

[Caribou]

Thanks Marc, I needed that.

[elphaba]

We are so conditioned as non's to see these issues as a backslide, because we've delt with so many rages/rants/crap.  I think we then have a tendancy to see even normal "human" error, "normal" escape from blame as being a BPD slide...  we have to stop and remember that they are not the sum of their illness or recovery...that they are human and therefore make mistakes.

You know, my friend, that she is wrong in this situation (always look behind you when you are backing up, geez) but, telling her she is wrong will get you nowhere...as you well know.  It is only when we feed their BPD-isms that we will continue to get the BPD reaction.  it is just as much about our expectations as it is about them...

You know she was wrong, you know you did not handle it well and engaged her - forgive her, forgive yourself...

Back to baby steps forward  /:)

[John Galt]

I know this is really pretentious of me but...I am going to quote myself from another post today cause you know what...

I really liked these words !

Sometimes I lose touch with the fact that

my wife (whom I love) has Bpd

and I think that

my Bpd is the person whom I love and she's my wife.

I think she is BPD first, wife second and I think thats wrong for me.
It should be wife first and BPD second ( I know its hard sometimes)

That being said I do not excuse her behaviours at all, but I do realize that she suffers from mental illness.

When I treat her with more compassion,she treats me with more compassion ,and then I see the person whomI love come out more.

marc

[istayed]

What a pain, Caribou!

When you discuss it further, here are a few neutral things you could say:

This focus on blame isn't getting us anywhere. Let's just concentrate on getting the cars fixed.

Thank goodness! Even though there was an accident, no one was injured!

Gee, I wish I had let [daughter] park the car at the other house--then the accident probably wouldn't have happened!


All BPD aside, speaking as a wife and knowing lots of other women who have been through this, one of the hardest calls to make is when you have to call to tell your husband you wrecked the car. Like ruthie said, compassion applied in one area sometimes yields return compassion in another.

I can imagine that, as a husband, the last thing you wanted to hear was that your wife wrecked the car--actually two cars!

Some stuff is just natural male-female stuff, tho I agree the BPD adds a more difficult twist.

Thinking of you,
spam

[Caribou]

Thanks elphaba.  I do see this as a backslide.  Not so much this individual incident but her general attitude lately. She had made such improvements that it is hard to go back to this.  Maybe my expectations need an adjustment.

Marc, I think you are on a roll today.  I read a post in another section of BPDFamily this morning and although I could answer the person's question with some authority, I was at a complete loss of how to really respond to their post (I ended up not responding).  Then I read your response and thought "Wow, Marc addressed exactly the issue that needed to be addressed and in such a compassionate and insightful way."  Feel free to quote yourself all you want.

Thanks Spam, My wife actually just got her car back from the autobody shop about a month ago.  She wasn't paying attention and took someone else's turn at a four way stop; they slammed into her sided and nearly totaled my wife's car.  I was in the dentist chair at the time (just a cleaning); she called and I left to be with her at the accident scene.  Although it was her fault, the other guy got ticketed and his insurance had to pay.

That situation was completely different.  She was upset that the car was wrecked and that it was her fault but was thankful that I came to the accident scene and supported her through it.

Then about 6 months ago, she got distracted and rear-ended someone but did no damage to either car.  Again, she called, I came and supported her while the police officer gave her a ticket and she was thankful that I was there.

This time was different.  She started off the conversation telling me how angry she was at me and how it was my fault.  It is hard to be supportive when you are being attacked.  My compassionate hat fell off some time duirng that conversation.  I will see if I can find it.

[John Galt]

Thank you ,thank you ( I am bowing,and patting my shoulder as I write this )


It is very difficult and IMHO wrong to be compassionate while being attacked !

While you are a Caribou,you are also human with blood( not ice water) in your veins.

I think we must show everyone -not only BPD wives- that while we are attacked we might not wish to engage,and we also will not be compassionate.We can very well later explain to BPDs or others that we did not appreciate their tone,look,words or whatever in a compassionate way later on.

I am in a good mood today,and I am writing nice honest things while not being sarcastic towards others and others are being just as nice and nicer in return !

Hmmmmnnnnnn,

And we are all nons .

Marc

[elphaba]

I do understand what you mean about the slide in fact karma because what I get for offering advice to others is this...I knew this was going to be a tough week at my house (school vacation)...knew I'd probably get lots of ridiculous calls

First call today - quoting uBPDh "We have a major issue, I came downstairs this morning and the dog had pooped in the bathroom, told stepdaughter (10 yr old, who desperately wanted the dog) and asked her to clean it up, now she's sitting here crying and you need to deal with her"... so, ok I talk to the daughter, she says he's being mean, I say no...the dog is your responsibilty, stop crying and clean up the mess.  she says *sniffle*sniffle*o.k.

Second call - upbdh "You need to have a talk with (other) daughter, she got up showered and now she's going out, she just thinks she can do whatever she wants and not answer to me, and she promised she'd take her little sister to the carnival, WTH, why can't she ever stop thinking about herself and you've got to deal with it because they don't listen to me" - so I talk to this daughter ask what happened, after some arguing (she's 18) she will do her shopping for prom dress and be back early enough to take little sis to the carnival, while I am talking to her uBPDh comes in her room and says - "I want to talk to your mother when you're done"... so we finish up and she goes to give the phone to him...comes back on and says he doesn't want to talk to you anymore...

I'm pissed, I mean WTH he can't handle even the simplest of problems at the house while I am the only adult with a full time job and I'm getting these kinds of stupid phone calls...and then HE doesn't want to talk to me?

So I wait a while, send him a quick message that just says love you... he reads it, signs offline...no reply...

this bites.

[John Galt]

You know Elph, that is so true.

Everything is a catastropy,yet I deal with a million things a day ( and BPDFamily too) and one little thing happens and it is a catastrophy !

[elphaba]

Yeah, I just got another call "WTH, I can't deal with this sht, I don't feel well and I can't even get any rest, because of all the bull with teenagers who can't think of anything but themselves"  I hung up on him.

Are ya freakin kiddin me... between him and the kids I've gotten about a dozen plus calls from home today with stupid crap...and I run aShopping Mall...he can't get a nap...that is his biggest problem! 

But he can be online on stupid myspace for hours on end, won't even respond to my email and yet somehow he's the one who has it so tough...

[Caribou]

Sorry your week is going like it is elphaba.  My wife has the summers off and during some of the past summers, I could have written the same scenarios you did.

It is interesting that you run a shopping mall.  I know the lady that runs the mall in our city and know of the million different things she has to deal with on a daily basis.  From small shop owners that don't have a clue to the large chains that think they are god; it is a lot of balls to juggle.  All that and write amazing poetry and juggle a BPDso.  That is quite a feat!

Hope the rest of the week gets better.

[elphaba]

Thanks Caribou,

A friend of mine who went to law school said that one of his proffessors had told the class that Mall Managers have one of the most Multi-faceted and toughest jobs going... i have to agree...  add to that the 3 kids, BPDso, and the fact that I also help run a Children's Theatre as well.  plate is a little full.

Meanwhile, hubby can't even deal with the normal daily grind of life with kids...has a sh*tfit when anyone uses his razor, like it is a mortal sin...  today seems to suck more than most days and my assistant is out of the office so I am answering phones and dealing with extra stuff anyway.

Husband is feeling sick this week and in the last conversation today actually said "I'm hoping end up with pnemonia, that way I can go to the hospital and not have to deal with this bullsh*t" - Good!  go, just don't expect me to come up and visit you!  Last year when he got like this he did end up in the hospital for a week, pathetic.

sorry for the "rage" - I would love to just not go home today...I'm actually seriously considering it, just go out for dinner/drinks and let them all worry about where i am.

oh, well...I'm far too responsible to do that, but it is nice to think about.

[John Galt]

You say it in jest,but take care of you first !

Only then can you take care of the family,and they need you !

marc

[istayed]

Elphie--
You have my undying admiration. I'd dearly love to work with theatre, children's or otherwise, but can't find the time. Ditto for going to school. BPDH harps all the time about how I need to finish my degree, but how am I supposed to do that when I'm tending to his every little problem. Just got off the phone walking him through some computer crisis. He's such a moron! And there's the accounting for his two businesses I deal with in the evenings--after American Idol, of course. I worked on his crap last night, and then he had the nerve to ask what I had been doing--"I know you're playing on the Internet--you haven't been working." He's been sitting on his a** watching sports while I was doing invoices for his company, and he says I'm "playing." Arghh! (And I didn't login on BPDFamily even once!)

The carnival sounds nice. Are your kids on spring break or something? It would have been nice if you could have joined them, but I guess with your assistant out, sneaking out would not be an option.

Caribou, sorry, back to the topic--you're the best judge about the sliding. I didn't realize that her initial call about the car started her attack. By all means, you were within your bounds to jump back. I wonder if she did it that way knowing you would get upset. That way she could feel she was truly victimized--first by your "causing" the wreck and then by your "meanness" when she told you about it.

What bad luck in driving! Is she taking any medications that could cause her to be inattentive?

spam

[Caribou]

Spam- my wife takes synthroid but that shouldn't affect her driving.  I attribute the inattentiveness to her be stressed out about everything and being preoccupied by other things rather than watching the road.  Until I wrote the response to your last post, I hadn't realized that this is the third accident in less than a year.

As to why she started out with an attack.  I don't think it was a conscious (or unconscious) effort to be the victim but then again, I don't really understand why that happened.

Now, switching roles...

Spam- If you dont consider your husbands real or imagined needs, how do you feel about going back to school or helping with a childrens theatre?  What do you want?  Why should your needs come second?

[istayed]

Spam- If you dont consider your husbands real or imagined needs, how do you feel about going back to school or helping with a childrens theatre?  What do you want?  Why should your needs come second?

Thanks for asking. Hope you're prepared for a convoluted answer:

Because we're stuck in a 20-year rut of me being his helpmate/savior/whipping boy. It came naturally--even more naturally than to some nons--because he has a pretty severe visual impairment (doesn't drive) and does need a helper for some things. When he's in a good mood and hollers "Com'ere, eyes!" it's a pleasure to help. When he's in a bad mood and is frustrated because he's having problems with his computer or some mechanical stuff, it's holy hell. Imagine being split black, raged at, threatened with divorce and/or bodily harm, and then, moments later, being asked by the same person "Does this tie go with this shirt?"

He is quite independent--he runs two businesses, one of which is a nonprofit that puts on a big golf tourney every year, he is apparently a pretty good counselor, and he just started up a new for-profit business last year that hasn't made any money yet. I help him with his accounting & PR--stuff he doesn't know how to do. Also I edit his progress notes--he writes 'em, but I fix up his spelling and grammar and format them so they look cool. Every evening and both days of every weekend are spent doing work for one of the businesses. So "me" time is pretty much limited to the office--I'm supposed to work here, but, as we've discussed elsewhere, I use a lot of this "me" time here at BPDFamily.

In short, our relationship is a whole new level of co-dependence, and we're so deep into it that I don't think there's really any way out. I've searched for answers here for a long time to find some solution that will work for us. I've had a little success with boundary-setting, but it hasn't had any effect on the number or intensity of his rages. I think the rut is so deep that the only way out of it is for me to leave, and I'm not ready to do that. See, besides the co-de crap, I've got this huge pile of potential guilt if I leave him. Not only does he depend on me for partner-type help, he depends on me for some of the things required for him to work, so if I left, it would affect a lot of things that most folks don't have to think twice about.

What do I want? It'd be great if he'd run away with his secretary. It'd even be okay if he had a stroke and dropped dead. (Anything that would separate us without my having to develop any courage!)

I have gone back to school, more than once--evening classes, which he encouraged. At the same time, however, he wanted me to call him when I got parked and got to the building, and again at break, and again after class before I went to the car. And getting homework done along with everything else--I just wasn't up to it.

Okay, there you have it. I hope you don't think I'm whining or looking for pity. I'm not. I'm open to any ideas--

Thanks again.
spam

[livingw/ochaos]

Caribou,

I've seen the sort of backsliding with my H and know exactly what you are talking about.

It is a change of attitude.  It's not a simply slip up . . . a mistep . . . and then a correction.

It is a full step or two backwards, and my experience is that if they are still comitted to changing they start over again from where they are (where they backslid).  In my H's case it hasn't been as easy as simply catching up again to the same point and restarting.

The only way I can explain to myself is: It's like a trigger (it can be smaill, or in like in your case $1500 worth of damage) that sends their defenses up.  You'd think that they'd get over it again, and start where they left off, but it's as though their brain rewired itself. 

Sometimes my H will recover again at the same pace it took him to make the progress in the first place.  Lately every slide backwards has been a pain staking path back to where he was (much slower than the path took him originally).

It's been frustrating.   

But I have also noticed that there are plateaus . . . a certain level of progress that is reached and never backslide past again.  It may take H many, many steps forward and backwards to get to the next plateau, but so far he has been getting there.

I think this is one thing I don't often see discussed on this board.  It's as though most people report amazing break speed progress.  I don't see that with my H.  Honestly given his diagnosis and my understanding of PDs, I wouldn't expect to see it.  His progress is slow, painfully so sometimes, and frustrating . . . but it's seems to be real progress.  Truthfully I don't expect FULL recovery this lifetime.

[Caribou]

Spam - thanks for opening up about this.

Imagine being split black, raged at, threatened with divorce and/or bodily harm, and then, moments later, being asked by the same person "Does this tie go with this shirt?"

Unfortunately, No imagination is required for me to know exactly what you are talking about.

What do I want? It'd be great if he'd run away with his secretary. It'd even be okay if he had a stroke and dropped dead. (Anything that would separate us without my having to develop any courage!)

I was married to my exwife for nearly 16 years (we dated for about 5 before that).  She was depressed for the last 10 years of our marriage and although she was on medication and saw a counselor regularly, there was no perceivable improvement.  I felt so alone; it was like I was not married at all (I accept that part that I played in this but that is a different thread).  I raised and enjoyed my kids and loved my worked but my marriage was empty.

Then I started noticing a weird thought popping into my head.  When she was late getting home from being out somewhere by herself, I would hope that she had an accident and had died (I am embarrassed to write that).  That was a real wake-up call.  I thought, "I only get to live life once, is this really what I want?"  I was divorced within a year and although she still has all of her problems, she is no worse off than when we were together.  I understand the guilt that you feel because I felt considerable guilt for divorcing her.

The point to that trip down memory lane, is not that you should leave but that wishing your spouse was dead is no way to live.  He may not respond well to boundaries but they aren't really about him anyway, they are about protecting you.  I wondered if you could hire someone to do some of the things that you currently do for him so that you have more time to pursue your interests (i.e. someone to edit progress notes, accounting, pr, drive him places, etc.).

Spam, you are such a funny, intelligent, witty, neat lady and deserve so much more than to be someone's secretary/chauffeur/emotional punching bag.  The courage is within you.

[Mollyd]

Caribou and Spam -



Caribou - just wanted to send support to you during this time when you are feeling a backslide - take good care of yourself!

Spam - I love to read your posts, you have so much to offer and seem like such a wonderful person.  I am so sorry for what you are going through.  ((Spam)) (It's one of those never-say-never moments - like if someone wold have aksed me a year ago if I would ever hug SPAM? I'd have said NEVER! But, you have given new meaning to the word - so ((SPAM))

Molls.

[JoannaK]

Hi caribou, spam, and all... 

It's as though most people report amazing break speed progress.

  Living, I just wanted to comment that I don't remember anybody who had amazing break speed progress... and it stuck.  Not one person posting here in Committed.  I think that some think that things are getting better very quickly, but usually those people come back a month or two later to report that things have been up and down.  I think your situation, one step forward, two back, three forward, one back, is much, much more typical. 

Caribou, I guess all that I can say is that time will tell.  I will say, however, that your first wife's depression sounds as though it was a constant downer..  This wife goes up and down and throws some fire around.  I think that people can handle the ups and downs and the fire more than they can handle the constant downers.  At least with fire you get interaction, no matter how dysfunctional.  Is it ultimately a better relationship?  Will it seem better if she can tame those fires?  Time will tell.

Spam, I don't know what to say.  I do believe that physical disabilities keep people with BPD and other dysfunctional partners much more than just the psychological dysfunction. 

[istayed]

Caribou,

Thanks so much for sharing details about your first marriage. I think you "got it" about wishing he'd die. It's not that I want him dead, it's just that I don't have a clue how to institute the changes that would be required for us to live happily together. It's a huge mess, and what's so remarkably odd is that I don't feel as if it has wiped "me" out altogether. I'm still here, still fairly sane, able to do my job (when I'm not Nooking!), able to think clearly and offer suggestions to others. There's just not enough time to do "me" stuff when I'm off work. It's as though I'm living two lives--his and mine. He knows I feel overwhelmed, and--when he's lucid--agrees that we need to do something to "get our lives back." But later, when some deadline is approaching, he lashes out with "What's wrong with you? You knew that had to be done by day-after-tomorrow! You're just lazy--and I know you're just playing around on the Internet." God, I'd like to shove the Internet down his BPD throat.

Your idea about hiring someone to handle some of his work chores is valid. Even BPDh knows this would help. Unfortunately, his nonprofit has very little money. He has a secretary, but she stays really busy with other stuff, and he can't seem to keep one long enough to transfer duties. He's probably fired a dozen secretaries in the past five years--and the ones he didn't fire quit! He'd like to transfer those duties--he accuses me of wanting to "control" his business. I don't. I'd be thrilled if he and his staff could handle his business and I could handle my business. That might leave us a minute of free time to think about something we'd enjoy doing.

Molls, thank you so much for the hugs. They were great--it means a lot to me to have some emotional support. I hope you didn't get any of my gelatinous spam covering on your beautiful butterfly wings!

JK, I don't know what to say, either. Guess that's why I haven't mentioned his disability. When we met, I was determined that I wouldn't let it affect me--pro or con--in pursuing a relationship with him. Cognitively, that is. On a subconscious level, I know now that there had to be codependent mush going on in my head. He needs me! (He says I'm beautiful!) He needs me! (He's newly divorced and says he has been suicidal!) He needs me! (He says I'm the best thing that's ever happened to him!) etc, etc, you all know the rest. I admit stupidity. I admit a co-de sprocket in my psyche that needs to be needed. This relationship was a train wreck waiting to happen. Add BPD to the mix, and voila! Train wreck accomplished.

I appreciate your responses. I'm so far into it, I can't think clearly. I've tried really hard to step outside myself and look at the situation as though it's someone else on the board posting. What would I say to this lady? She sounds pretty together. I'd probably tell her to try to separate herself from the guilt. He had his disability before you. You didn't cause it. You can't cure it. You can't control it. His BPD is preventing you both from having a decent existence. It's up to him to save himself...or not. And it's up to you to save yourself...or not. That's as far as I get. I feel like I'm on top of the theory. It's just figuring out what to do and doing it that stops me.

Thanks again, all,
spam

[vic]

Hiya Spam

He needs me! (He says I'm beautiful!) He needs me! (He's newly divorced and says he has been suicidal!) He needs me! (He says I'm the best thing that's ever happened to him!) etc, etc, you all know the rest. I admit stupidity. I admit a co-de sprocket in my psyche that needs to be needed. This relationship was a train wreck waiting to happen. Add BPD to the mix, and voila! Train wreck accomplished.]

This statement really got to me. I felt the same way for so long.

You have made great strides in bettering yourself, and you show an incredible amount of stamina. When you decide your energies are being resplenished at the same rate they are being expended, or conversely; you get tired of them not being replenished at all, you will know what step to take next.

Till then take it day to day. You are your own best friend. *You* need you most of all.

Vic

[vic]

Oops, I oopsed that one, let me try again..


Hiya Spam

He needs me! (He says I'm beautiful!) He needs me! (He's newly divorced and says he has been suicidal!) He needs me! (He says I'm the best thing that's ever happened to him!) etc, etc, you all know the rest. I admit stupidity. I admit a co-de sprocket in my psyche that needs to be needed. This relationship was a train wreck waiting to happen. Add BPD to the mix, and voila! Train wreck accomplished.

This statement really got to me. I felt the same way for so long.

You have made great strides in bettering yourself, and you show an incredible amount of stamina. When you decide your energies are being resplenished at the same rate they are being expended, or conversely; you get tired of them not being replenished at all, you will know what step to take next.

Till then take it day to day. You are your own best friend. *You* need you most of all.

Vic

[Mollyd]

Spam -

I, too, can relate to the above quote (unfortunately). I agree, that it sounds as if you truly have a solid sense of yourself.  However, in your relationship . . . . that is where you sound like you are drowning.   One thought I have for you is maybe you could start some threads about what is going on for you and *we* could offer our support, and oh-so-valuable wisdom - maybe if you reached out (instead of just giving here at BPDFamily, which you do SO well) you we might be able to help you get unstuck?

Molls.

[livingw/ochaos]

It's as though most people report amazing break speed progress.
  Living, I just wanted to comment that I don't remember anybody who had amazing break speed progress... and it stuck.  Not one person posting here in Committed.  I think that some think that things are getting better very quickly, but usually those people come back a month or two later to report that things have been up and down.  I think your situation, one step forward, two back, three forward, one back, is much, much more typical.

Ah EXACTLY . . . that's kinda what I was getting at.

I find the Committed board a bit frustrating, because it seems like we see many post (from posters like you say) who say essentially "I think things are changing over night" and then "things fell apart completely again" a short time later.  And many of those posters eventually move to the Committed Board or the Separating/Divorcing Board.

It just seems like a lot of "atta boy" feedback is given to posters who seem to still be on the rollercoaster ride themselves.  And when someone posts - small, small babysteps . . . and then the not surprising setback stories - stories of possible true recovery, there tends to be no feedback whatsoever.

I don't mean to personalize this at all.  I'm not speaking about any one particular poster or post.  Just more musing on my general observation from the fairly significant time I've been here.

I get that recovery is a learning curve (boy oh boy do I get that), and I understand that the first step is seeing the problem . . . the REAL problem - including how us nons contribute to the chaos ourselves until we learn how not to.  I think you, Joanna, spot on with your posts trying to enlightened many new comers to this concept. 

I just wish I'd see more dialogue about handling things after this initial step . . . sort of more of the "backsliding is normal, this is what I do to handle it . . . how things can still move forward dispite it . . . what it means . . . why it happens . . . etc"

[istayed]

One thought I have for you is maybe you could start some threads about what is going on for you and *we* could offer our support, and oh-so-valuable wisdom

Ya think? I guess I just can't nail down one specific topic to start with. It all seems so mashed up together. I'll give this some thought and come up with something. That's a good idea.

Oh, and "you"--all of you--have been providing me with unimaginable wisdom, support, and strength during all the time I've been here. It has made an incredible difference just to be here--and I lurked for quite some time before posting.

Thanks again,
spam

[Caribou]

UPDATE

My wife and I had a talk recently about how things are going.  She brought up how stressed she has been by her job and by taking a class at the university.  I think the job stress has contributed significantly to the recent trips to Oz.  We talked about how she might reduce the stress.

My wife has taking an active role in getting the two cars fixed and now says that she is partly at fault for the accident.  That is a step the right direction.

JoannaK - My first marriage was a flat line located below the happiness baseline.  This marriage is more like a sine curve that fluctuates over and under the happiness baseline.  The goal is to smooth out the curve and keep it above the baseline and I feel like we are headed in that direction.

[Special thanks to our sponsors!]

Special thanks to our sponsors! Keeping us on the air in 2013 Pay it forward Here
	123Phoebe 1989 1bravegirl 20years 23tesla 5keepers Alastor alf aluminumRob Amber3 ambi AmericanTemplar an0ught Arecibo armsreach Arthur artman.1 At_Bay Auspicious aussie mumma Aussieman babyducks Bananas bb12 beachgirl009 BeenReplaced BeenThereB4 BehindTheWall Being Mindful Belka berry Blazing Star BlueTiffany BradyK briefcase cal644 CalledaPerson Cannon captain4464 cbas cfh charred chayka Chosen Cici cindyr cleotokos Cmjo CodependentHusband ComoLu ComplexOpus Conundrum coworkerfriend Cumulus dauada David Dare daze deelee950 dharmagems Dire Wolf dusk eac elessar eniale Exonerated eyvindr faithfull fakename findingmyselfagain Firequelcher flatspin Forgetmenot Free One freshlySane fromheeltoheal Gbirdmom GeekyGirl goldylamont goodguy gottafixit Grammy17201 griz GustheDog Healing4Ever heartandwhole Her Mother heronbird heyhey hijodeganas hithere hopeforhealing How do I do This? HowPredictable Hunter56 Hurt llama Hurtbad Inspirationneeded isshebpd Jai Yen jalbright jaleo2000 jargon337 jb1 jessienbp JetsFan joanlee johnnyonthespot jordana418 Joseph54 just me. Kate4queen keepwalking keldubs78 kellygirl601 Kelsie Kewahkah kimberlysc knowing laelle lbjnltx Leaf livefreebpdfamily loved_her? LoveNotWar LP luckyduck LuckyEscapee LuvMontana Major_Dad mamachelle MammaMia mango_flower maria1 maryy16 meditator Memorial Donation (11) mggt michaelwriting midori0 Mightyhammers Millie12 MomsBestFriendNoMore Moorpark Mountaineagle mp2? Mr Mom... mymiracles MySanctuary Nelson1962 newlyhopeful nomoredrama71 nonhere NorthernGirl nothinleft NotTheMama NYCgirl NY-LON Odysseus. Oldsoldier2411 OnceConfused ontherox opheliasmom Orange patientandclear Patty peaceplease peppie Phoenix.Rising pinkpeony PrettyPlease Pugman Rapt Reader really refuge rethinking RiseUp rj47 Robhart rockman Rocky777 Rockylove rogerroger rollercoaster24 Rose1 Sabine saddle_tramp SadWifeofBPD SailMonkey salvia Sancho scallops Scarlet Phoenix schwing scraps66 screechowl seahorse Seb sfgirl skinny13 somuchlove southernsis splitinga still around strangerinparadise StrongEnough struggli stupafly Sullyone Surnia susanleona swampped T. Moore tailspin Take2 Tess Russell Thursday TigerEye Tippy toliveistofly Tracy62 Triptoes tryingtohelp tuum est61 twojaybirds upsidedown VeryScared vfsdan Vindi vivekananda waitaminute WalrusGumboot Want2know watersedge waverider wee_one whatshappening whiletheseasonspass whirlpoollife whitemouse Wimowe winston72 wishingwell17 withBPD WorkingOnIt worn_out WrongWoman wuzdownandgetnbetter yamada yeeter
	If you made a donation and your name does not appear on this list or here , please contact us so that we can confirm that the payment was properly credited to BPDFamily.
	Pay it forward Here