How to handle this?

[Think About It....]

Non's and secondary non's….what have your experiences been as it relatesd to post divorce BPDxw and your children's extra curricular activities.

I am what BPDFamily calls a secondary non, I have been dating a man who has 2 children 10 & 14 who spent the last 3 years divorcing his BPDw(the divorce was final in Feb 2006),  I have know this man for over 4 years so I have seen both from a distance as well as close up what his predivorce and post divorce environment has been.  He was awarded primary residential custody in December 2005, the kids alternate weekends and one week night for dinner with BPD mom…how the schedule is going is a whole separate matter! Anyway...

predivorce his BPDxw was completely uninvolved as it related to her children's activities…his kids played sports all year round and also attended Scouts.  Dad drove the kids everywhere, attending all their games, became a Scout leader, assistant ball coach etc…all while BPDw attended maybe  every other ball game separately from Dad and the kids…(when she did come she was always late, arriving about 15-20 minutes into the game and then she would leave with about 10-15 minutes left to play…as for scouts, she NEVER participated. Now, since the divorce has been final she has developed a greater dedication to their activity schedule.  She shows up sometimes 30 minutes before the games begin, watches the entire game, and then has to get face time with each child before she leaves…this is very difficult to watch since she does this weird hovering thing to her 10 year old where she sticks her face in his with about 10 inches between them as she talks to him the language and tone is like she is speaking to a 2 year old (It is clear he is extremely uncomfortable).  The 14 year old does what he can to avoid contact with her but regularliy finds himself physically backed into a corner or driven off a sidewalk by her very aggressive approach.  I was wondering if the behavior we have been experiencing with his BPDxw is par for the course, how long will this behavior continue, and have you done anything to make the best of this situation?   They each play 2-3 games per week, which means we see her 4-5 nights per week.   It seems like an aweful lot of contact and exposure to her on a weekly basis, it is not pleasant. Any suggestions?

[Jolynn]

Non's and secondary non's….what have your experiences been as it relatesd to post divorce BPDxw and your children's extra curricular activities.

I am what BPDFamily calls a secondary non, I have been dating a man who has 2 children 10 & 14 who spent the last 3 years divorcing his BPDw(the divorce was final in Feb 2006),  I have know this man for over 4 years so I have seen both from a distance as well as close up what his predivorce and post divorce environment has been.  He was awarded primary residential custody in December 2005, the kids alternate weekends and one week night for dinner with BPD mom…how the schedule is going is a whole separate matter! Anyway...

predivorce his BPDxw was completely uninvolved as it related to her children's activities…his kids played sports all year round and also attended Scouts.  Dad drove the kids everywhere, attending all their games, became a Scout leader, assistant ball coach etc…all while BPDw attended maybe  every other ball game separately from Dad and the kids…(when she did come she was always late, arriving about 15-20 minutes into the game and then she would leave with about 10-15 minutes left to play…as for scouts, she NEVER participated. Now, since the divorce has been final she has developed a greater dedication to their activity schedule.  She shows up sometimes 30 minutes before the games begin, watches the entire game, and then has to get face time with each child before she leaves…this is very difficult to watch since she does this weird hovering thing to her 10 year old where she sticks her face in his with about 10 inches between them as she talks to him the language and tone is like she is speaking to a 2 year old (It is clear he is extremely uncomfortable).  The 14 year old does what he can to avoid contact with her but regularliy finds himself physically backed into a corner or driven off a sidewalk by her very aggressive approach.  I was wondering if the behavior we have been experiencing with his BPDxw is par for the course, how long will this behavior continue, and have you done anything to make the best of this situation?   They each play 2-3 games per week, which means we see her 4-5 nights per week.   It seems like an aweful lot of contact and exposure to her on a weekly basis, it is not pleasant. Any suggestions?

[SadButHoping]

Been there, done that too, Jolynn.  You're not alone on this one.

She sounds like she's overcompensating for part of what she blames for having lost custody.  It's possible that she's using (and documenting) her involvement for later use, but it could be that the 'normal' side of her is trying to make up for what the 'real' side of her has done in the past.  In either case, that's all a show & sooner or later the show will close.  This would happen very quickly if she finds a new relationship that she'll need to dedicate the time to. 

Be careful of alienation efforts, because she may be sending those messages to the kids when you're not around them.  It sounds like they're turned off by the show anyway, so the sooner it's over and she moves on to new victims the better for everybody.

Although the situation is not pleasant for any of you, she IS their mother and any effort you make to thwart her will be used against you later.  If the kids get tired of it, they may tell her to back themselves.  (Again, don't you do this because that would be used against you, too).

The best thing I can imagine is for you just to sit back and watch over the kids and make sure they're safe.  They're coming home with you anyway, so there's no reason to compete with her.  If she's like my ex, she'll find other entertainment soon and be gone.

Just my observations on your question.

SBH

[Jolynn]

Sad,  You're right. We have just tried to do our best to ignor this "new"and or "improved" behavior...though we have mixed feelings about the bahaviors intent...at times it feels like dominance, "Power Over" behavior, both direct and indirect...if it is this then should it be ignored?  Over the last year I have read several books on BPD and Abusive Relationships...one in particular , "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans is an excellent read for anyone who has a BPD or feels they have an Abuser in their life...The book discusses the idea that someone who is abusive to their partner or within a close intmate relationship like parent/child operates in a "power over" mode in those relationships. It is all about retaining, staying in control over another for them...abuse can be direct like name calling and violent acts but it also can be very indirect...in any case abuse should never be ignored.  Sometimes this behavior feels alot like she is trying to maintain control with an abusive edge...if so is it right to just ignor? Choosing ambivalence when dealing with a BPD never seems to work out well in the end.

At one time I thought that in her moving on and directing her BPD on a "new" target will eventually redirect this behavior but she has been dating a guy for over a 1 1/2 and has been engadged to get married since March 2006...this has yet to impact the "show".

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[SadButHoping]

I agree that it seems like there should be something to do . . . but the question is, what?

If YOU intervene somewhere public, the boys will be thrust into a situation where they would have to publicly choose between you and Mom.  Nobody wins that one, two little boys definitely lose.

If you intervene privately, the intention may be taken the wrong way by the boys.  Also, if they report it back to their mom it will become a weapon.

If your SO intervenes either publicly or privately, she will use that against him with his own sons when she begins to try to alienate them from him.

Although uncomfortable, there is nothing you've described that couldn't be taken by an outsider as simply a caring parent, maybe a little overboard with the gushy stuff on adolescent boys, but many good moms have this feature to them too.  So somebody watching the events sees a mom who doesn't have custody trying to be part of her sons' lives.  So sad.  Poor her.  And the father/SO tries to push the mom out of the picture, away from her boys.  Oh my.  Those mean, mean people.  And she stands by tearfully while you try to explain . . .

Who looks like the crazies in that picture?  Who appears to be hurting whom?  The facts are irrelevant, the reports and testimony would be based on what they SAW and how they interpreted it.

So, IF you see something inappropriate happen, your SO needs to intervene and protect them.  But however irritating it is, she's their mother and has the right to interact with them, watch their games and generally hang around assuming it's a public place.

Just my opinion

SBH

[happygirl]

Sometimes this behavior feels alot like she is trying to maintain control with an abusive edge...if so is it right to just ignor? Choosing ambivalence when dealing with a BPD never seems to work out well in the end.

I would agree with SBH on this one,  yes you may well be very correct on your assessment of her control issues and exerting undue influence just by being there but exactly as SBH states, it is maddeningly difficult to pin this one on her.

I mean, get real, it is darn difficult to nail them on things that they really do without them dancing around it and making you look bad why take on issues that seem vague and only uncomfortable.

My advice, stick to the big boundaries on the big overt stuff but give the other things a wide berth,  make a choice to ignore for awhile, make sure the kids are supported and comfortable, let her be Mother of the Year by showing up.  By intervening you really run the risk of interloping or appearing to be very controlling yourself.

Good luck, HG