Something just isn't making sense...

[Think About It...]

Ok, so Bear goes to the 2nd co-parenting session this afternoon with BPDxw#2 about their little 2yr old daughter.  They're in the midst of a custody battle - with an evaluation in process - and a final hearing scheduled for the beginning of Sept.  He's met with the social worker once before...and explained the difficulty in co-parenting, etc. b/c of her being BPD.  Its been bitter.  Its been expensive.  She's taken him to court about $, about custody, about everything...

Anyway - and here's where it gets weird - she's been incredibly nice for about 2-3 weeks now.  (Sent Bear 10 text messages yesterday morning before 8am w/ pictures of d).  I said its a definite re-engagement - since this is the first time he's ever really talked to her since they separated.  She's been on her best behavior (to him) and has been painting me pretty black. (Not a real big deal, but it makes me feel some sort of way...)  I have a sense that she's trying to do something...but cannot put my finger on it - call it woman's intuition...

So, today, they go to the co-parenting session - and come to a custody agreement where its equal 50-50 time with d. (One week on, one week off) under the condition that we switch weekends so that she can have a weekend w/out children (she has another older D from a previous relationship).  Switching will be difficult - but we'll do it...

Now, all Bear has to do is write it up, they sign it w/ a notary, and it gets put into the court order. 

Huh?  Thousands of $ on attorneys, a custody evaluation, time off, etc. and then all of a sudden she just says 'ok' take child 50/50?   ?

Am I amiss here (i.e. being incredibly paranoid) or is something way too easy about this?  It doesn't make sense...Bear is astounded too and said that BPDxw was 'nice' and 'seemed different' today (suggested maybe she's on medication or something).  It just seems too easy.  Am I being paranoid? ? 

[drexelgal]

Ok, so Bear goes to the 2nd co-parenting session this afternoon with BPDxw#2 about their little 2yr old daughter.  They're in the midst of a custody battle - with an evaluation in process - and a final hearing scheduled for the beginning of Sept.  He's met with the social worker once before...and explained the difficulty in co-parenting, etc. b/c of her being BPD.  Its been bitter.  Its been expensive.  She's taken him to court about $, about custody, about everything...

Anyway - and here's where it gets weird - she's been incredibly nice for about 2-3 weeks now.  (Sent Bear 10 text messages yesterday morning before 8am w/ pictures of d).  I said its a definite re-engagement - since this is the first time he's ever really talked to her since they separated.  She's been on her best behavior (to him) and has been painting me pretty black. (Not a real big deal, but it makes me feel some sort of way...)  I have a sense that she's trying to do something...but cannot put my finger on it - call it woman's intuition...

So, today, they go to the co-parenting session - and come to a custody agreement where its equal 50-50 time with d. (One week on, one week off) under the condition that we switch weekends so that she can have a weekend w/out children (she has another older D from a previous relationship).  Switching will be difficult - but we'll do it...

Now, all Bear has to do is write it up, they sign it w/ a notary, and it gets put into the court order. 

Huh?  Thousands of $ on attorneys, a custody evaluation, time off, etc. and then all of a sudden she just says 'ok' take child 50/50?   ?

Am I amiss here (i.e. being incredibly paranoid) or is something way too easy about this?  It doesn't make sense...Bear is astounded too and said that BPDxw was 'nice' and 'seemed different' today (suggested maybe she's on medication or something).  It just seems too easy.  Am I being paranoid? ? 

[happygirl]

Dear friend,

I am not so sure that it is too easy.  I mean, we have done this a million times too, she rages, screams, threatens court, goes to court, screams some more and then in a blink of an eye is all cooing and happy.

So, today, they go to the co-parenting session - and come to a custody agreement where its equal 50-50 time with d.

Maybe she has split him white for awhile (pics and all), maybe she is somehow vested in appearing to be flexible, maybe she wants more time to herself and new lover, maybe she wants to impress mediator for some reason, maybe she really doesn't want court again and maybe she wished on a lucky star.

I am all for being suspicious and I grant you, you are wise to be so.  Barring anything else bizarre happening, take it and run with it and don't look back.

Best wishes to you and Bear, hope all stays well.

HG

[TheMuse]

I respect that "something isn't right, what's she planning next" feeling, am currently having about DH's bpxw, but for now, it seems like you should sign the papers and celebrate some. This issue is not a short lived one, custody talks will go on and on over the child's lifetime...today, you won a battle, not the war. But a battle won is still a victory...savor it.

~hugs~
TheMuse

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[drexelgal]

HG & Muse

Thank you both so much.  I think perhaps I'm just still in shock...but very very happy (that's for sure).   
We're going to get this signed asap...before anything can change.

Your support (and friendship) is always so appreciated. 

[Oy-vey!]

Maybe she will come to a screeching halt like the BPDxW in our life.  Everything is alll worked out.  I mean EVERYTHING.  And everyone seems satisfied. 

It is typed up.

Show up to sign.

NOPE.  Not good enough.

Return to START.

It is a treadmill - back to start - over and over and over again.

I hope for your SD's sake that it really is a done deal.  It sounds great.

If there is a custody evaluation going on - I'll guarantee she wants to look good for the evaluation.  Once the eval is over she will likely return to her old ways.  Just a guess.

I'm happy for you and bear and for the daughter!

[SadButHoping]

I'm happy for you and Bear, Drex.  Enjoy this relief while it lasts.

If your woman's intuition tells you to keep up your guard, then I'd listen to yourself 150%.  The flip-flop and 50/50 custody idea is exactly what happened last summer . . . and then the full-blown alienation campaign began.  I didn't realize what was happening until it was too late, but the end result is that my X has convinced my son that SHE is his only need in life . . . she appears all sweet and nicey, but is pumping his mind full of crap all the time.  So now, SHE was so accomodating, agreed to the 50/50 thing and all that . . . SEE how nice she is.  But HE now says he won't even talk to me and wants to live full-time with his mom "because she is the only one who doesn't lie to me".

So . . . BE CAREFUL!

SBH

[drexelgal]

Well, I'm right to have had my guard up - and to feel the way that I've been feeling these past couple of weeks...just knowing that there's something going on.

funny thing is, its not about 'custody' - its about Bear and the fact that she wants him back.  Plain & simple and I am now 150% proof positive sure that is the case.

Last night - phone call before I got home from work...30 minutes or so.  About the past.  Then, at 9:30pm, text pictures - 1 of BPDxw, 2 of sd.  Ignored them because it was obviously something to get attention.  No words - just pictures.

Then at 10:30, all the phones start ringing - his cell phone, then the house phone, then his cell phone.  Finally, he answers.  SD is awake - almost 11pm.  She's 2.  She's 'sick'.  Burning up 'red' with a fever.  In BPDxw's bed...crying.  (Let me say, I feel bad for sd...but we've NEVER gotten a call where BPDxw NEEDED to call Bear because SD had a fever).  She starts with the 'this is bad' 'she's never come into my bed' 'she's never awake at this hour' 'if you don't believe me then come here'...which then morphs into 'I don't have any medicine, do you?' and then into 'what do you want me to do - why don't you just bring me the medicine' (she lives about 5 minutes from us).

So, at 11pm, Bear takes children's nightime cold meds to BPDxw's house.  When he calls from outside, she said door is open and that she's up in her bedroom with sd, and to come up.  He does.  He takes her the meds...then stays until 1am...putting sd down to sleep.

Bpdxw then proceeds to kiss him and take off all of her clothes.  He pushes her off of him, leaves & says that it isn't right.  Comes home at 1am or so and tells me all of this.

Needless to say, its now 8am, I've barely slept...I'm angrier than a mother bear...and I don't understand how this woman has such incredible power over Bear.  I've seen through this for weeks now...and I've told him that this isn't about dear sd.  That I hear a big gigantic sucking sound.  Woman's intuition about these things is typically 100% on the money.  I don't even know what to say, do, think, feel...

Am I mad at bear - yes.  Absolutely.  He has known this woman for years - he knows what she is capable of.  Yet, for some reason I'm the one that saw this coming?  That knew what was going on.  I tried to tell him - even again this morning - that he's a pawn in her game...that sd is a pawn.  Why isn't he furious that she's using sd and custody as 'bait'...why isn't he furious?  Why is he so afraid of her wrath that he fears is going to come?  Why am I still in the midst of all of this?  I need to get my head examined right about now.

[undone]

 :'( ;==

Holy...Just Holy...

No.  Holy Christ on a cracker, how did you not lose your mind?

Ok, before I get trampled on by people saying that he didn't know what was gonna happen, that it wasn't his fault, blah blah blah...

Let's go over this part-->

and I don't understand how this woman has such incredible power over Bear.  I've seen through this for weeks now...and I've told him that this isn't about dear sd.  That I hear a big gigantic sucking sound.  Woman's intuition about these things is typically 100% on the money.  He has known this woman for years - he knows what she is capable of.  Yet, for some reason I'm the one that saw this coming?  That knew what was going on.  I tried to tell him - even again this morning - that he's a pawn in her game...that sd is a pawn.  Why isn't he furious that she's using sd and custody as 'bait'...why isn't he furious?

That is the crux of living with a "Non". 

Us "normals"?  We are not believed.  We are not listened to.  We get pushed back against.  Nobody heeds our freaking warnings. But that crazy SOB?  She can completely lose her freakin mind, and for some reason, we are the only ones not shocked.

I just don't get it.

And I am so sorry.  I have bio children.  I know what it's like to worry about your child.  The difference is, I DO NOT jump everytime my ex says to, even for the "sake children", it's hard, it sucks, but I DO IT. 

And don't let Bear off the hook with this one.  You told him shyte wasn't right.  You told him something was up,  HE WAS A VICTIM THE FIRST TIME SHE JACKED HIM AROUND ONLY!  AFTER THAT, HE IS A VOLUNTEER!

And again, I am so sorry.  I don't know what I would do in your position.   :'(

[Baillie]

Watching my enmeshed father roll over and play dead for many many years, drexelgal, I truly believe that the momster/wifester/ex in this case knows each and every button to push, when to push it, how long, how often, WHEN TO LET UP (the being nice part, believe me, that was when I used to sweat like hell, when momster was nice, because then WHEN is she going to blow?).

You know where he goofed with that re-engagement?  Yes, take the darned cold medicine over there, but PUT INSIDE OPEN UNLOCKED EVEN THOUGH IT'S NIGHTTIME DOOR and LEAVE.

Period.

He waltzed with her on that one.  Just two-stepped right along with her.

I am married, I've never had this custody madness going on for extended periods of time, I've never been the SO having to watch the enmeshed one tango with the ex or future ex.  I just can't start to fathom how this must feel.  Because you DO have to hold him largely responsible for what happened.  She's going to try every trick of the trade on him, but he doesn't have to swallow it.

My momster was classic for getting what she wanted out of our father every single time.  I don't want to call your guy a weakling, but when it comes to these btches, I think the path of least resistance is ALL that they know.  The familiar is easier than the outrageous idea of standing up to her and saying NO.

NO is a lovely word used in the right circumstances.  He should've let your radar work for the two of you.  Now he's up sht's creek with no boat, no paddle and a righteously pissed-off SO waiting on the shore.   

[Coolmomof4]

Yeah I have to agree.  He walked right into that one.  I knew where your post was going as soon as I read that he took the medicine to her.  If she was capable of going downstairs and unlocking the door, she was capable of going back down and retrieving meds.

Besides that, what would she have done if you DIDN'T live 5 minutes away?  That was a set up from the beginning. And I'd be willing to bet she had plenty of meds in her own house.

Agh.  That just makes me mad!  Be prepared that the story gets morphed into much, much more.  I'm sorry that all happened, and you have every right to be upset.

[SadButHoping]

OMG, Drex . . . I am so, so, so aching for you right now. :'(

I agree with Coolmom--this will get morphed big time, and I think pretty quickly, too.

It's easy--and some justified--to blame Bear on this screwup, but let me just for a minute take the other side of that issue:

---Bear DOES know the evil she is capable of.   But, as Baillie points out, she knows every button in his personality and is an expert at using it.  The same personality that allowed him to get sucked into her traps previously worked against him again.

---Despite all that's happened, I'm sure that Bear still hopes that someday she will be normal and things will be OK for his D.  He WANTS her to be normal, and at that instant she was acting normal . . . so he's lulled into a false sense of security.

---She has been acting nice lately.  For you, that was a justifiable cause for alarm.  For him, that was confirmation that the hope for normalcy is maybe coming true.  Self-deception by the non- is a powerful and silent weapon of the BPD intruder.

---D is sick.  Dad's don't like it when their daughters are sick.  We like to fix things, especially for our daughters.  This needs fixed.  Can't you hear the trumpets blowing "Charge"?  The cavalry was on the way to save the day.  Dudley Dooright and the whole gang showed up.  So his normal defense mechanisms were impaired by the worry for his D and the need to fix her.

---He has been accused many times of not doing anything, of not doing what D needs, of not being a good father.  Well, see above--good fathers fix their daughter's problems.  He's in the middle of custody negotiations and doesn't want to impair that process.  So he does what a good father does and races to the rescue.

---Because all these things are happening at a dizzying speed, he doesn't even THINK about this being a trap, and so gets snared by it.  (I truly believe that a woman's intuition on this one would have been sounding sirens and sending up flares . . . but guys tend not to have those talents, especially when they are in Dudley Dooright mode).

To his credit, and you believe him so I believe him, he rejected her advances, pushed her away and left.  One run for the home team.  Now he only needs 3 grand slams in the bottom of the ninth to tie the game. 

Unfortunately, I believe this will be interpreted as abandoning her and may have awakened the sleeping monster.  Time will tell on that premonition.  If it's coming, it will come pretty soon.  And probably using the custody agreement as the weapon.  I can hear the victim's pleas already--can't you just here this conversation?: 

"Yes, judge I called him and asked about medicine . . . but I never meant for him really to come over.  Heck, I've got a cabinet full myself, why would I want his?  Then I'm surprised to have him call me from the front porch.  I didn't know what to do, and it IS his daughter too, so I let him come up and see her.  I know I shouldn't have done that--I mean, I really shouldn't even let him in my house, should I?  But our little girl was so sick and he did bring some medicine and . . . well, I just did.  And he did help her get to sleep.  But then, he didn't want to leave.  I told him to go home and I started getting ready for bed myself, but he didn't go . . . and then he nearly RAPED me!  No, I don't think this is the person to have 50/50 custody of our girl because he can't be trusted.  No, I think I should have custody and maybe he could see her once in a while, as long as there is someone else there to protect her.  He scares me."


Now all that is fiction, at least so far.  And Bear does need to own up to the fact that he screwed up on this one.  Maybe it would help for the two of you to talk through the whole scene and come up with ideas about what COULD have been done differently, and how can he guard against it again.  The most obvious one to me is that he has NO business inside her house for any reason, except maybe if it's burning down and he's saving his daughter.  Set a hard boundary rule on that and live with it.  Tell the ex about it, too, and that last night will not repeat itself, ever.

I know this sounds like I'm defending him, and I suppose in a way I am.  He should have known better.  If he took the meds at all, he should have left them at the door.  But he's battling a witch with supernatural powers.  Having been in similar situations, I can tell you that it is almost impossible to resist because it's another darned-if-you-do, darned-if-you-don't things and the Dudley Doorights of the world can't bear to think that their kid suffered because they refused to help.  And then to consider that he could be vilified later for not having helped is just plain too much.  This is a time when the LC required by co-parenting puts the Non- and subsequent relationship (you) at continued pain and risk.

All the reasons and excuses for what happened aside, the fact remains that it DID happen.  And it could be worse--he could have crumbled to her wiles instead of leaving.  (Trying to look at the bright side a bit there).

So where to go from here:

---You need to set a boundary with Bear about this happening ever again.  Regardless of whether he gets sucked in or not, you need to protect you.

---Bear needs to own up to his mistake, apologize to you and learn from it.  He needs to set boundaries about her actions and then enforce them.

---Both of you need to talk through what works for the two of you, and he needs to learn to lean on your intuition, because it seems to be the better predictor of what's really going on.  (This will be very hard for him, and there are times when you'll need to back off and let him take the lead, as he HAS known her for years longer and sometimes he'll have a better feel for things).


Just some thoughts.  I am so sorry for what you are going through.  I just hope you and Bear can work through everything.  I will think of you often today.

SBH

[happygirl]

Dear Friend,

I am so, so sorry for you right.  I can so relate to this issue and I know how acutely frustrating it is.  I remember the one night when SS called late at night, I handed the phone to Walt and said "this is the phone call where he says he doesn't want to come for the summer".  I said that in an attempt to prepare him so he wouldn't be hurt  and take it personal and he could recognize it as her attempt at PAS.  Of course, that is exactly what the guy said and exactly as I predicted, it devastated him and I was P******.  So enraged that I predicted it and still, he couldn't react appropriately.  I just don't get it why we are not trusted when it comes to this intuition because we are a whole lot better at it than they are obviously or they wouldn't be in this situation.

I so get how frustrated you are that you are the one, taking the consequences, you are the one working to keep things together, to not let anger take over your very existence, to help him to develop better strategies and responses and you are the one who deals with all the crap when things don't work out or that Bear suffers and hence you suffer to.

I also understand your frustration in wondering just how stupid these guys can be and yet on the other hand, we know that the thinking process sometimes just plain stops.  That is where I am with Walt, trying to accept that until he has counseling and develops better strategies, he seems unable to "think" some situations through, particularly when it involves saving his child.  He often talks about he can't make decisions when he is in the middle of this, that his mind is frozen.  How are bear's normal responses to her when he is in the middle of other anxiety-inducing issues with her?

So, at 11pm, Bear takes children's nightime cold meds to BPDxw's house.  When he calls from outside, she said door is open and that she's up in her bedroom with sd, and to come up.  He does.  He takes her the meds...then stays until 1am...putting sd down to sleep.

Bpdxw then proceeds to kiss him and take off all of her clothes.  He pushes her off of him, leaves & says that it isn't right.  Comes home at 1am or so and tells me all of this.

I have to tell you, Drex, I thought Hg's life was a mess with the psycho Joho/hojo but this is unbelievable!  Spanky has had a dialogue with one of my threads where he maintains that part of the continual phone calls is the need to keep in constant contact with Walt and I see here in your situation that there is huge possiblity that this is exactly true.  I continue to be amazed at the reality that they create in their heads.

So, friend, where are you in all of this.  I think one of the concerns that I would have is the staying there for 2 hours.  Not that it is about a trust issue, I get that it is not but the fact that he placated her on every level and then truly jeopardized your relationship by doing so.  And,  in what part of the 2 hours did this incident occur, at the beginning and he still stayed?  Or was it later?

I really appreciate responses from SBH,

I know this sounds like I'm defending him, and I suppose in a way I am.  He should have known better

It is hugely helpful to have an insight into the thinking of a non that so completely boggles the usually logical thinking of the secondary non.

Unfortunately, I believe this will be interpreted as abandoning her and may have awakened the sleeping monster.  Time will tell on that premonition.  If it's coming, it will come pretty soon.  And probably using the custody agreement as the weapon.  I can hear the victim's pleas already--can't you just here this conversation?: 

Yeah, that is my concern also, I am going to assume that the custody agreement is not drawn up and finalize yet?  Is there any way to expedite that if necessary.  With this abandonment, as you well know, you are looking a some serious fallout.

From HG's post yesterday:

I am all for being suspicious and I grant you, you are wise to be so.  Barring anything else bizarre happening, take it and run with it and don't look back.

I guess this would constitute anything else bizarre . . .

One last question,

Why isn't he furious that she's using sd and custody as 'bait'...why isn't he furious?  Why is he so afraid of her wrath that he fears is going to come?  Why am I still in the midst of all of this?  I need to get my head examined right about now.

  What was his response, I mean what did he say to you about it, about how he felt?

Let us know how you are doing, friend, we are here for you. 

HG

[drexelgal]

First, thank you friends for your responses.  I am beside myself right about now...and trying to eat some lunch hoping it will settle my nerves, stomach, mind. 

HG,

His normal responses - up to the last couple of weeks - have been to respond to her rather straightforwardly - address what needs to be addressed and then ignore the rest.  Until this past January we had the peace of a restraining order against her to keep her at bay.  That lapsed, after 18 months, and with her not having had any contact with him other than for moments at exchanges, there was no grounds for renewal.  Does she get to him - at times, yes.  But he's usually able to recognize that she's trying to pull some sort of nonsense, that she has alterior motives, etc.  He might get a bit angry for a moment or two - but he composes himself.  Until the last few weeks - she rarely called.  If she did, it was because she was running late for a drop off, pick up, etc. Most communication was via email or notes (i.e. medicine with a note saying this much, this time, etc.)  He'd been pretty focused on the 'goal' - custody evaluation, etc.  and very business like in that manner...again, until late.  All of a sudden, now, though it is as I said Ms. Nicey Nice - Ms. Conciliatory (sp) and he's talking to her, emailing her, etc. daily. 

About the two hours - the 'incident' occurred at the end from what I've gathered.  He left rather promptly afterwards.  Does that give reason for him being there for 2 hours?  No.  A part of me laid on the couch last night truly preparing myself for the fact that he might not come home...after he was gone more than 25-30 minutes I knew that it was much more than dropping off medicine, and that he was in the throes of a full blown, no holds barred Re-engagement.  I didn't expect him to come home...and I was laying there, mentally preparing myself for that reality.  Before he even started telling me what had happened, I knew from his face and demeanor the minute he walked through the door that something was terribly wrong. 

Where am I in all of this?  Well, I've wasted a day of work so far (now lunchtime), I've smoked a bunch of cigarettes, I'm numb...I was numb last night when he went, I was numb last night when he came home, I was numb this morning when I awoke...and I'm still rather numb.  I'm probably going to leave work early, see if I can go and see my therapist (she's across the street from my job) and then maybe go for a long ride and try to clear my head by listening to a lot of country music and getting lost on a back road somewhere with a pack of cigarettes and a stale cup of coffee from a convenient store.  (That's one of my oldest and most effective coping mechanisms!)

I am trying to be very analytical right about now - trying to figure out what comes next...trying to get Bear to listen to me and just force her hand regarding custody & then shut 'it' down.  No more communication - at all - except via email and only in an emergency to the phone.  I don't think he's going to listen.  He's confused...he said so himself.  One minute, I think he's listening...the next he's back to being confused and scared.  I feel like I'm dealing with an abused child or something.  And, I wish I knew what my role was in all of this.

So, back again to where am I.  I dont know.  I'm living in a house with him, I'm helping (at least I think I am) to raise his children.  I think I've been really really good to this man that I love very much - and I'm feeling like I don't deserve to be standing in the midst of this, and feeling helpless at the same time.

I'm human - so I've made my fair share of mistakes (especially over the last few weeks as my senses have been going off full alarm knowing that something like this was in the works) and it has literally driven me to act like anything other than my typical self. 

I guess I'm standing here, waiting to see what he's going to do - and preparing myself for the possibility that I may just have to leave if he chooses to allow this woman to continue so confidently to violate boundaries. 

I'm willing to deal with Bear's exs - I wouldn't be here if I wasn't.  But, I'm willing to deal with them as long as they are peripherals that are kept in context...the mothers of his children...and this has become something much more perverse.

I'm willing to stand next to him and fight to the end for these kids - all of them - because I love him and I love these children...and I sincerely want what is best for all 3 of those little ones.  I'm willing to be called names, I'm willing to testify on witness stands, I'm willing to try to make a stable household for all these little beings that I didn't bring into this world - but will love as though I did...and I accept that their mothers are sick and will always be trying to cause drama, pain, strife, etc.  I'm willing to work on me being a better me for the sake of these kids...and to work with Bear to try to give them a 'stable' house with consistency.

I am not willing to deal with Bear allowing one boundary after another to be corroded to the point where he finds himself standing face to face with his naked BPDxw.  I am not willing to deal with her sending her picture to his phone.  I am not willing to compete with a borderline for Bear's attention.  I resent feeling as though somehow, right now, I am. 

And, no - the custody agreement is not yet drawn up.  The ultimate carrot still hangs out there.  When would it have been?  They came out of counselling, he drove her back to her job (oh, yeah - she 'walked' to counselling and so Bear drove her back to her job like 10 blocks away in my car because I had taken his to work...during which time she proceeded to question him about his love for me), Bear then went home, got a phone call from her (30 minutes), I came home from work...he told me what went on...we argued about him discussing our relationship with her...and then dinner & sitting down (now 9pm).  The drama of the evening occurred almost as soon as we started watching tv.  Nothing got accomplished about the agreement.  Nothing. 

It makes it all the more complicated right now in Bear's mind.  Me - I say tell her that she is totally inappropriate and suffer the wrath.  If she reneges on an agreement she made, in front of a counselor with an evaluator still involved and a court date still pending - then it should be a final nail in her BPD coffin.  She will have finally proven her motivation - and that is not sd. 

SBH, Coolmom, Baille - I'll write back to you soon - thank you so much for responding...
Drexel

[Baillie]

You use the word 'stand' alot to refer to yourself, drexel, my friend, but you are really STRANDED.

And that "corroded," wow, that's exactly what she's doing.  Like acid eating through 18-gage steel.

She's going to do the all-familiar bitter nasty bullsht stuff.

What MUST change, and how I look back and mentally kick my enmeshed father in the ASS for not doing so, ever, is Bear has to say NO, he has to say STOP, or he has to say---nothing at all.

She'll re-engagement over a fever.  She'll re-engagement over the ride back to work.  She's going to Re-engagement like the f***ing Re-engagement Dam.

But golly, every last single time, Bear has to inflate those balls of his and act on manly testosterone stuff and put her in her place--verbally or nonverbally, whichever is called for.

Those children are so fortunate to have you.  You are enduring so much on their behalf.  But to endure outright FLAGRANT consuming abuse that is vicariously brought to YOUR soul by HIM, what are you supposed to do about that?

I hear you about the "radar" pinging away and him ignoring bigtime.  I'm married many years now, and lo and behold, it still takes outside verification that this old stupid idiotic butt KNEW what she was talking about.

Say something once, you will just have to stand back and DETACH and watch the fallout swirl around you.  And sooner or later, I think you're right, it might come down to you, and your kindness and concern for his children, or her, the ultimate Black Hole and her Sucking Sound.

It really is up to him.  Sooner than later, I hope.

[undone]

 ;==
And this is where the nons and the secondary nons bash heads:

But he's battling a witch with supernatural powers. 

I am sorry, he is NOT battling someone with supernatural powers.  Hell, Drex knew something was up, everyone who posted knew something was up.  He was WARNED SOMETHING WAS UP.

But the non?  Bear?  He gets to bury his head in the sand.  He gets to go on, pretending she isn't abso-fark-ing-lutely insane, cause he wants to believe it... ;==

I wanna believe I am 6 feet tall and bullet-proof.  It doesn't mean jack.  And it certainly doesn't mean I am going to stand in front of a loaded gun.

But to endure outright FLAGRANT consuming abuse that is vicariously brought to YOUR soul by HIM, what are you supposed to do about that?

I love that quote.  LOVE it.  That's what I STILL don't get about nons.  I don't think I ever will. 

WTH would he be willing to damage his relationship with a woman he loves in order to placate a BPD?  And make no mistake about it.  It is not about the kids. It never is about the kids, and it never will be about the kids.   How much hurt are Non-nons supposed to take? 

Drex, I feel sick for you.  I hope you can come to terms with this, and do what is right for you.  Not for him, not for the kids, but for YOU.

[happygirl]

((Drexelgal))

I hope the day is treating you gently as you struggle with these swirling issues.

As you well know, I am absolutely the very last person that gets to tell you what to do because quite frankly I am not very good at this and we are in  the same boat so I am not here to offer advice. I think a ton of people will come along and give the advice that you need.

What am here to do is let you know that I so ache for you right now and I am so saddened for you and your pain. I also understand the absolute desperation of loving a great guy but wondering if you can live forever with the constant swirling chaos that they (the non) choses to invite into your lives.

I understand the frustration of a non who choses to be the good guy, the nice guy, the guy who just wants to get along and stop the madness.  The vain attempts at a relationship where if they were just nice enough, they could minimize the madness.  I understand the rejection that you may feel as he continues to flub up in the face of her craziness and the anger you may have you suck it up and love him and his children and watch him thrust this stupid life on you.  And for what?  As undone reminds "for the sake of the children", the one darn argument that places you as the demanding b**** (not unlike the words he uses to describe his exw) when you want some type of accountability or if not that, at least a little progress.

I am trying to be very analytical right about now - trying to figure out what comes next...trying to get Bear to listen to me and just force her hand regarding custody & then shut 'it' down.  No more communication - at all - except via email and only in an emergency to the phone.  I don't think he's going to listen.  He's confused...he said so himself.  One minute, I think he's listening...the next he's back to being confused and scared.  I feel like I'm dealing with an abused child or something.

That much is the truth, I have decided that the abuse has rendered them damaged and in need of therapy.  We can't fix them, Drex, we can't fix this and in light of that, all we get to do is to take care of ourselves.  I am not saying throw it all away because I would not do that to Walt but we are certainly worth a lot more than being the woman with the crystal ball who is still being ignored.  Our souls are worth a lot more than a man who hurts us or betrays us with his inability to act.

I always get a lot of I'm sorries from Walt and I know he means them, he is sorry when he inflicts this on me but darn, I am waiting to see the guy be more proactive more intuitive himself.

I will say one thing, I do not see Bear understanding the very issues that Walt is barely  and minimally beginning to understand.  That his giving her "the priviledges of normalcy" is going to continue to defeat his recovery against this and may well cost him a priceless thing - you.

Hang in there friend, we are thinking of you.

HG

[Constantine AKA Bear1]

This is Bear. The past few weeks have become increasingly surreal. I have not been actively posting here for over a year. I do not know how/if it appropriate for me to reply on my SO's posting. Truth be told, I received quite amount of support and guidance here and I did very well with my particular life experience with a xbdw. Yes did "No contact" etc...preached here up, down and sideways to many a poor soul...so what the HELL HAPPENED ? Well no excuses from me ...but Glenda the good Witch came along.  yeah the woman I first met over 5 years ago...sweet, attractive, my daughters mother etc...being so reasonable. After almost two years of a horrible custody battle, (one that I did not initiate).

She agreed yesterday to a 50/50 custody split in a court ordered couseling session...she was reasonable nice...so different...strange...then 9:30 text pictures of xBPDw on my cell...WTH my SO and I thought...then 11 or so a dramatic call that my daughter is sick...no meds etc...well I got sucked in RE-ENGAGEMENT OF all RE-ENGAGEMENTS...heck I done great for two years, by the book NO CONTACT...had a RO agaianst her that ran out in Jan. She is pushing all my buttons big time...and I have responded. Why?


I do not have a clue...did not get sucked back in...but so so very close.  I do not know what to do?

What next?  This is really hardcore stuff that I did not have to deal wiath before when I had the RO in effect...and yeah I blew it. I fell for it hook line and sinker...an experienced "non"...etc...after almost 2 years of walking the walk and doing things by the book...my bad.

 

[happygirl]

Hey, Drex, just checing in to see how things are going for you today.  We are here and are worried for the both of you. 

HG

[JR]

Hi... Drexel, Bear, et al -

Well, I chose to believe my then-S/O, now MyGuy [husband], when he called me one evening 16 years ago to say he was going over to see bp[almostX]W, to "talk about dealing with the children". A little flag waved then. The next morning, I felt like doodoo when I called his home, as we always did, and he wasn't there. When he had a chance to explain, he told me - yeah, he's sorry, but he fell asleep on her couch. [uh huh] I was hurt, angry, and confused, and I had only been seeing him for a couple months by then. I told him under any circumstances: 'Homey don't play that!' (sorry, it was in vogue at the time :-X).

Fast forward to when I went with him to his attorney's office the morning of his divorce hearing several weeks later, the attorney said something about 'adultery charges'. Wha...? Back up, buddy! What did you just say? Had I known, I would have worn something that didn't clash with that scarlet 'A' because... apparently bpX and her attorney claim I "had sexual relations with him during this period of time that he was sleeping with his wife" ? News to me, and I might add, really sucky timing to find out  . Since bp didn't show up for the hearing, I was the one who had to testify that "to the best of my knowledge MyGuy did not have sex with bpX". Twisted, eh?

So, LATER, after I didn't lie (but didn't know WTH was going on) on the witness stand... MyGuy tells me that - Yeah, bp did everything she could to coerce him into having sex with her, but he didn't; he had no desire or intention to. "I just fell asleep. Like I told you." uh huh. "Please, honey, I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. I don't want to talk about it anymore. I creeps me out."

I chose to believe it.
And I've been haunted by bpX claiming I am a "husband-stealing skank" and "broke up her marriage" and "stole her life" - oh, and "lied on the witness stand" - ever since. :P (Even though she has been married 3x's since and none of it is really true anyway... Still, it's a major part of her reality where I am concerned.)


So, Drexel, I'm feeling you right now. I really really am. My heart is breaking with yours, and my mind is swimming in confusion of how to make any sort of sense about those 2 hours. Whatever happened last night, what will you be able to expect from here on out from Bear?

Bear,

I do not know what to do?

What next?  This is really hardcore stuff that I did not have to deal wiath before when I had the RO in effect...and yeah I blew it. I fell for it hook line and sinker...an experienced "non"...etc...after almost 2 years of walking the walk and doing things by the book...my bad.

No spankings from jr's corner, but I've gotta say, dude - 'my bad' wouldn't fly with me now, knowing what I [think I] know now. I suggest you really really think about what you want, what you'd expect from an s/o if the tables were turned, and go from there to establish boundaries that will have no roon for error in sending mixed signals to either Drexel or your daughter's mother (or your daughter, for that matter).

~ jr

[SadButHoping]

Bear and Drexel:

I hope this weekend provides some quiet time for reflection, rebuilding and just no chaos.  You've had a rough week and you both deserve a bit of a break.

Drexel, cover your ears.  I've got some non-guy to non-guy crap to throw at Bear.

Bear, this is for you.  (And you're not alone here either--I say these nasty, mean things to myself when I screw up, too.)  I know you've been in BPDFamily much longer than me, but I've paid my dues in hell, too. 

And I HAVE been where you are (well, not with your X standing there naked, but you know what I mean).  Although 'undone' does not agree with my statement about the supernatural witch, it's close to how I felt at times.  The Elizabeth Hurley character in Bedazzled is the best analogy I could come up with.  (If you don't remember it, watch again).  And it is great that you woke up, didn't get re-engaged and got your butt back home fast.  Be proud of yourself (and relieved) for that.  And I'm glad that you were able to help your little girl.   That said, and you know this, you shouldn't have been there.  Shouldn't have taken the meds over, shouldn't have gone in the X's house, certainly shouldn't have been upstairs in the bedroom.

A secondary non wouldn't understand, but I know that you couldn't really hear Drex's warnings . . . but the bells were going off loud in her head, that's for sure.  I am also in that same spot--my wife tells me that such-and-such is going to happen . . . I say, 'certainly she wouldn't do that' . . . end of the day, well, yes she could.  And did.  And does.  The only way I make it through is to keep as LC as possible.  (Have to have some contact because of my son). 

Always remember that whatever was said or done, was said or done with an ulterior motive.  And that motive is NEVER in my best interest.  In my life, there is no stronger proof that there is evil in the world than how easily my X can twist me into mush.  She knows my buttons, and she WILL push them at any instant if it means getting what she wants.  So I have to guard those buttons with everything I have.  It takes a LOT of work, and sometimes that means hurting her feelings to do it.  ("Why won't you just talk to me . . . ", etc.)  I have to keep a stiff upper lip and remember one word:  NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO  GO AWAY!  (OK, it's more than one word.  Sue me.) 

I know that deep-down you WANT her to be the nice person you always thought she might be . . . and she's been acting nice lately . . . BUT SHE'S NOT and she's never going to be!  She's a lizard in a human skin, and she will crack you open and suck your soul out if you give her the chance.

It's easy to look back and see the places where you could have made different choices in this incident, SO DO IT.  Replay the whole last couple of weeks and figure out how she got back inside her head.  These are obviously weak spots for you, so find the tools to build stronger boundaries there.  You CANNOT let your guard down, as hard and painful as that is.  She WILL attack you if you let her.  Always remember that.  You're only human, and humans do make mistakes.  But mistakes in this game can be fatal.  If you're like me, you don't expect this evil, and the warning bells aren't loud enough in your head.  But they do for Drexel, so learn to trust her instincts.  She's got your back, so listen to her and trust the instincts you don't have.  She's there for you, but not just to watch you fall on your sword.

I know this is hard.  But need a reason to do it?  Look Drexel in the eyes.  That should be enough motivation.  She loves you, and she loves the kids.  You CAN do this--for her if not even for yourself yet.

SBH

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