Jurisdictional Issues (Arizona/Alabama/Tennessee)

[Think About It...]

A brief overview - I have primary custody (Alabama) - BPDexW has visitation (lives in Arizona) - case litigated in Arizona Courts (Maricopa County, Phoenix) (long story) Child is 4, preschool only now - BPDexW gets 2 weeks visitation after every 5 weeks - It has been more than one year since divorce/custody - Lots of histrionics, money issues since then ...

It appears that BPDexW has found a job/ in Tennessee (still unsure, but indications are she has) - She has tried to disguise her intentions for a long time - She still has two kids back in Phoenix (Father has custody, she used to see the kids every other weekend, one day a week, three weeks this summer - they are with her now - she now has ALL three kids with her now) - BPDexW still owes a ton of money to her first ex (Child support arrears) - they have been at each other since 1998 - and from 2001 to 2003 with my help, since 2003 she has had two fronts to defend when she filed for divorce from me -

I will be getting legal help (of course) - but am looking to see if anyone has any useful insight into Jurisdictional Issues -

1) Can she file in Tennessee to move the case to her hometown?
2) Given I have primary custody, do I get any special considerations from any of the courts?  i.e. Can I ask that the case be moved to MY hometown?  (If she does move to where she says she may move, we will be about 2 hours apart by car)
3) How different are Arizona, Alabama, Tennessee? (I know it is very Judge dependent)
4) What are the sort of worst case scenarios I should be imagining/dealing with?

[bewildered]

A brief overview - I have primary custody (Alabama) - BPDexW has visitation (lives in Arizona) - case litigated in Arizona Courts (Maricopa County, Phoenix) (long story) Child is 4, preschool only now - BPDexW gets 2 weeks visitation after every 5 weeks - It has been more than one year since divorce/custody - Lots of histrionics, money issues since then ...

It appears that BPDexW has found a job/ in Tennessee (still unsure, but indications are she has) - She has tried to disguise her intentions for a long time - She still has two kids back in Phoenix (Father has custody, she used to see the kids every other weekend, one day a week, three weeks this summer - they are with her now - she now has ALL three kids with her now) - BPDexW still owes a ton of money to her first ex (Child support arrears) - they have been at each other since 1998 - and from 2001 to 2003 with my help, since 2003 she has had two fronts to defend when she filed for divorce from me -

I will be getting legal help (of course) - but am looking to see if anyone has any useful insight into Jurisdictional Issues -

1) Can she file in Tennessee to move the case to her hometown?
2) Given I have primary custody, do I get any special considerations from any of the courts?  i.e. Can I ask that the case be moved to MY hometown?  (If she does move to where she says she may move, we will be about 2 hours apart by car)
3) How different are Arizona, Alabama, Tennessee? (I know it is very Judge dependent)
4) What are the sort of worst case scenarios I should be imagining/dealing with?

[Coolmomof4]

I don't live in any of those states, but when DH went through custody/visitation issues, we lived in NC where the final order was signed, then we moved to GA )we actually moved before the Order was signed by BP-mom).  DH has full physical custody of step-son, BP-mom has visitation.  We were told by our attorney in NC that after the child has lived in this state for a year, we could file to have the juristiction changed to GA, and we would not have any problem.  The court's juristiction is "supposed to" depend on where the child's primary residence is, not where the non-custodial parent is.  She could "file" but you could definitely go to court and fight it, and you'd most likely win (again, based on what we have been told regarding other states).

If I were you, I would seriously look into having juristiction changed to your state since you have primary custody - BEFORE she moves and files herself.  But look into the laws first, or talk at length with an attorney in your state.  We have now lived in GA for 7 years and never had the juristiction changed, because after speaking with two attorneys here we found that GA is a very pro-mother state, and we didn't want to risk that.  But at this point, BP-mom still lives in NC but not even in the county that has juristiction.  But we were told if she attempted to have juristiction changed to her county, she wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

[Coolmomof4]

After re-reading your post, and posting my response, I thought of something else.  Your daughter is 4, so when will she begin school full time?  Next fall (07)?  If that is the case, I would seriously consider whether you decide to change juristiction or not, to at least motion for a change.  If your ex has 2 weeks of visitation after every 5 weeks, you would legally have to follow that even when your daughter is in school.  This may be a perfect time for you to change juristiction, and file for a motion to change the order at the same time.  That way, next fall your daughter won't be missing tons of shool for these visits.

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[bewildered]

Thanks coolmom ... What I _AM_ looking for is information about Tennessee/Alabama - i.e. IS Tennessee pro-female/pro-mom?   say as compared to Alabama?

Yes, there are a number of factors working FOR me and AGAINST her ... but I worry.

I think the court in Arizona HAS TO decide to give up jurisdiction from what I understand - If my case is overseen by the Judge that listened to my case, I want to leave it IN ARIZONA ... but I know that may not stay that way forever.  (The Judge has seen her shenanigans)

She may yet be trying to confuse me as to what her intentions are and may yet pounce and file as it were.  But the reality is that I do have primary custody - yet I wonder how courts will interpret all this. 

She has been relatively stable - I do have a court ordered Judgement against her, she cannot really keep up her reasonable behavior for long anyway ... but she may be Machiavellian enough to appear that she is reasonable ... so will see (I will be talking to an attorney as soon as I can)

(School - yes, she will start next Fall - and I have a feeling BPDexW knows that and so may be moving NOW to establish residency and then file ... so start the process all over again in my backyard)

[Coolmomof4]

Yeah, I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but you could certainly call a few attorneys in those states for free, and find out their opinion on being pro-mom.  And I can certainly see that you'd want to find out first before trying to move anything. 

[Morphine]

Having lived in Tennessee for over 15 years, as a whole the state is very liberal.  Generally speaking (and of course this depends on the judge) Tennessee is not slanted towards either mother or father side of the coin.  I would suggest, once you know what county she lives in, to call up there and locate the court that any filings would go through, then research the judge and his/her preferences.

Tennessee won't allow her to bring the case to that state if the child is not a resident of that state.  Meaning if the child lives in Alabama - that's where the case will be held.

Tennessee is a very disorganized state - so, unless Alabama is worse, keep it there.

[bewildered]

Tennessee won't allow her to bring the case to that state if the child is not a resident of that state.  Meaning if the child lives in Alabama - that's where the case will be held.

Now THAT is good information and I will follow up.  Yes, the Arizona court ruling is clear and NOTHING has changed that , yet.  Alabama?  No idea how it is - organized or confused or whatever ... So, will wait and see and call and see ...

[bewildered]

Apparently my BPDexW HAS moved to Tennessee ... she was cagey through several email exchanges - but said "For now yes" (In response to my asking about her permanent address)

She also wrote that she is currently unemployed and looking for jobs.

So, she got a job (supposedly) in Arizona a scant two/three months ago - For Child Protective Services (she said) - travelling between different cities, staying in motels/etc ... and now she is in Tennessee ...

I have NO idea what to believe - and why she does what she does

But this trend of not being able to stick with a job is not new - she cannot hold a job, anyjob, anywhere - The only issue for me is how do I keep the child from experiencing turmoil

[Morphine]

Just cause she is laying down in TN at the moment, doesn't mean she's a resident there.  She could try and bring the case to that state, but unless she is a solid resident, the court won't touch her.

1 point is Tennessee courts DO NOT allow you to come immediately to the court for disputes, all child custody / domestic issues will be ordered to mandatory 4 session mediation.

So no matter what she does, the best she can do is to get you to mediation.  Where you should have quite a bit of fodder for the "arguement" cannon.

[bewildered]

So no matter what she does, the best she can do is to get you to mediation.  Where you should have quite a bit of fodder for the "arguement" cannon.

Ah - so I'll wait - My attorney in Alabama asked me to wait and see what she does (if anything) - If she does not file/do anything, I then need to set the groundrules for visitation/etc - and have to fall back on what the Arizona courts have said - and then work to change that for the next academic year (year from now) so the child can attend school regularly wih me - I remain worried that she would want to change that -

True, she has shown nothing but instability in her own life and thus not a life for a school going child - particularly when I can provide that - Yet, she has also not been bizarre or anything recently - so remain cautious as to what any court may say - no matter what she has done

[Morphine]

1... It will be at least 60-90 days before you even get a court date after you have mediation.

2... The judge will require and look at all the proceedings from other states regarding this case.

That's not to even consider that you could drag it out for a year or more before you even get a court date or start mediation.

It took me a year and a half to get my X into mediation.  And I was very agressive.

If she is as unstable as you have said, I would imagine things would change too quickly to allow this to continue into Tennessee.

[bewildered]

Waiting is tough - I have to figure out what I will do IF she does not file/do something - i.e. send her a proposal on how we can change the visitation to every other weekend (standard from what I hear) - and see what she says - My guess is that she will flatly refuse ... and then I will have to find a solution ...

[bewildered]

The process begins ...

1) BPDexW writes to me and asks "Can you bring child to Town B?" (Town B is about half way from where I am and where she is in Tennessee) (it will be about two weeks since she left child with me - and she can have liberal visitation in ALABAMA with two weeks notice)
2) So I write back - "No, I cannot that day - I'll see what I can do"
    and I write separately
I'd like us to work out, in advance, a visitation schedule that will allow child's education to continue
without interruptions.  If you'd like, I am agreeable to your visiting with child every
other weekend in your town - and when you are in Alabama, we can
figure out ways she can spend more time with you.
Are you willing to work with me about changing the current visitation schedule?
3) She ignores everything I write and writes back
    " I am following court ordered visitation"

Well, she is not.  She gets child for a week IN ALABAMA (Not Tennessee)
If she is in Tennessee, the existing court order applies - NOT Visitation

So I ask her
Please tell me how you are following court order.
The court order is clear about visitation in Alabama and the 5 week/2 week schedule.
Can you please tell me what your understanding is of the Court Order?

No response - yet

[Mr. M]

Wow, I see a lot of me in you, at least my past... it's been a great deal of work to get beyond engaging in the "back and forth."  This is what the BPD LOVES!  Any attention is good attention for them.

My recommendations to avoid a prolonged discussion are as follows:

- DO NOT ASK HER to tell you how she is following the court order.  TELL HER In keeping with the court order, you are permitted... [whatever she is permitted] and that is how you will proceed.  She won't tell you how she is following the court order or... if she does, she will find some twisted way to shoe-horn the circumstances into her actually following it.

- Given the change of circumstances, you might want to file for a modification that tightens-up the loose ends (if there are any).

When having to communicate with the BPDex, it is imperative that you try to avoid the "open-ended" situations that will prolong a "back and forth" with her.  Reply with fact and don't give her the opportunity to "explain" anything that you know isn't right or true.

[bewildered]

- Given the change of circumstances, you might want to file for a modification that tightens-up the loose ends (if there are any).

Absolutely ... I am already working on it - my attorney here in Alabama has asked me to wait

When having to communicate with the BPDex, it is imperative that you try to avoid the "open-ended" situations that will prolong a "back and forth" with her.  Reply with fact and don't give her the opportunity to "explain" anything that you know isn't right or true.

I agree - except, on many occassions, I get gems back from her - I have used her emails in the past IN COURT filings - and much of her words have come back to bite her - I am doing everything to show I am acting in good faith and know that she will NEVER, EVER act in good faith - OR - try to come to any accomodation with me

[bewildered]

Update ...

Well, the BPDexW has moved to Tennessee ... she is now 2 hours away from me (and we have met half way to exchange our child) - so far so good ... (interesting aside - she took a trip back to Arizona over the Labor Day Holidays with our child and sent me a bill for THAT travel ... Ofcourse I thought (!) - She is now demanding that her first ex- pay for her trips to go to Phoenix to see their children (they have NO court order on travel reimbursements - ours was related to pickup/drop off)

In our original decree and one subsequent modification, the Judge added a "two week notice" that she has to give me to "visit" with our child "in Alabama" - She has been throwing the "two week notice" at me and insists that she get the child every time she sends me two week notice (even though she is in Tennessee) (and I have told her that UNLESS she agrees with me to change the existing order, the current order stands - that is, she has two weeks to my five weeks)

I asked her to come to an agreement with me to change the visitation agreement - every other weekend - she has simply not responded (or said something like "I am following court orders") ... Our child goes to Kindergarten next Fall - so I tried to get her to agree with me on this change NOW - so the little one will get used to the schedule - but, nope - BPDexW simply has not agreed, yet - So it seems I will have to file and force the change

(My guess is that she still does not accept the court judgment - and imagines that she will become primary parent - Our child is doing well in preschool - though the change in homes/visitation seems to unsettle her some when she comes back - her teachers notice a change in attention span/retention issues - nothing alarming, yet - but I am watching carefully)

So, BPDexW will simply not negotiate with me - and is perhaps waiting for a JUDGE to issue a DECREE (BPD's are big on AUTHORITY figures) - I have to decide if I file in Arizona (friendly Judge, so far) - or move the case to Alabama (my home state) - She is in Tennessee, the child's school has been in Alabama for more than a year, the child's primary residence has been with me for more than a year now ... All factors indicate that my request for a change in jurisdication may be granted - Issue is: Should I?  The Judge in Arizona MAY change AFTER I file (No way of knowing, I called to check) ... So, "Life" continues - BPD remains a BPD (no surprise there!) (Am always ready for the next crisis ...)

(Now, if I could ONLY learn how to take care of the little girl's hair and have an eye for clothing, I'd be set!)

[JoannaK]

Hi be... I was wondering how things are going.

She is useless, isn't she?  I'm sure she still thinks that she is going to get primary custody sometime.

As you have primary custody and the child lives with you most of the time, it seems to me (from reading info on which case gets jurisdiction) that Alabama would have jurisdiction if Arizona gives it up.  And Arizona would only give it up if you petitioned that court to do so.

If you tried to get the Arizona courts to rule on an "every other weekend" custody/visitation agreement, she could counter that Arizona no longer has jurisdiction.  Alabama is not considered to be very father-friendly, but you have custody and you've had it for a while.  I think that would make a big difference.

If you have an Alabama attorney, I think you could ask him/her what they think about moving the case to Alabama.  It would be better for you logistically to have the Alabama courts have jurisdiction, as you wouldn't have to travel to Arizona...  but you don't want to screw yourself with potentially father-unfriendly Alabama courts.   

[bewildered]

If you have an Alabama attorney, I think you could ask him/her what they think about moving the case to Alabama.  It would be better for you logistically to have the Alabama courts have jurisdiction, as you wouldn't have to travel to Arizona...  but you don't want to screw yourself with potentially father-unfriendly Alabama courts. 

I do have an Alabama attorney and he is not concerned about how the courts/judges will see this case - since I do have primary custody - I continue to worry about the difference between Arizona and Alabama courts and liberal vs conservative - but I do have some history on my side and it would be very egregious for any court/judge to completely ignore what another court/judge did find and what the custody evaluator saw

(Oh, she does have two kids still in Arizona - their father has primary custody - so she may yet claim that she does not want to move the case to Alabama ... but I can see why she would love to thwart anything I may want to do ...)

The fundamentals remain very much on my side - (the way I see it) - it has been only a few months since she started a job in Tennessee - I am waiting to see when she will quit/something and move back to Arizona or somewhere else (she has a track record of instability) - and our child has been living with me most of the time and I continue to "take the high road" on visitation and such issues - yes, moving to Alabama will make it easier on many fronts - will see ...

[JoannaK]

I definitely agree that you should wait on any switching.  You are going to have to enroll your little girl in school next year, and,of course, that's going to be where you live.  At that time you could "propose" the every other weekend thing to her out of court... actually, it would amount to telling her "due to her school schedule, this is the best possible schedule for visitation."  Then let her take you to court for violating a court order... Your defense, of course, is that you tried to present you with reasonable visitation due to the change in circumstances (your child's age... that she is now in school) and she wouldn't agree.

But I really don't think you should do anything now.  Even with the current visitation schedule, it is easier for you because she is now in traveling distance. 

[bewildered]

But I really don't think you should do anything now.  Even with the current visitation schedule, it is easier for you because she is now in traveling distance. 

A point I had considered - My guess is that she does not want to lose any time - want to gain visitation time - the current schedule is 5 weeks with me, 2 weeks with her and she will keep trying to get more time by giving me "2 weeks notice" - The sole worry I have is the effect on our daughter as she grows and spends time with my BPDexW - So far, my BPDexW has not shown any overt signs of being strange/bizarre - but given the history, I know it is coming - and with each passing day, our daughter is becoming more and more observant and impressionable ... I had hoped to switch to the every other weekend schedule NOW - so our daughter can get used to that NOW and so will ease the transition as she starts regular school - My BPDexW has also steadfastly to allow me to take our daughter out of the country for a visit - and I know I can prevail if I drag her to court - I am balancing the demands of moving the court for that purpose now - or waiting till a time when I can try for both - show the courts that she continues to be unreasonable in allowing my travel and that she continues to refuse to negotiate with me on anything ...

Again - my overriding concern is to limit the negative influence she may/will have on our daughter as my BPDexW tries to earn a living, pay for child care and take care of a young child (BPDexW does not owe me child support - neither do I owe her - I do not pay her any alimony either) - I know it is not easy parenting a young child WITH a good, terrific job that I do have - the drains are not only financial but emotional and psychological as we all know - She has NEVER done this and so I worry about how she will/is when she has our daughter