What do I do with THIS?

[Think About It....]

This one is complicated.

Here's the background. My uBPDexW and I share custody of our 3yo girl. 50-50 time split. exW didn't work for a year during the divorce, & strung it all out, living on temporary spousal support and child support money. (BTW, there's NO way feeding and clothing our kid for two weeks of each month costs what I have to pay the exW - she just burns through that money with no accountabilty.)  At one point, she had to move in with her parents because she couldn't make it on the generous support payments.

Then, once the divorce was final, her income fell dramatically because the spousal support stopped. She got some little clerk's job at the same place her stepfather works. She never went back to her chosen field, because she didn't want to have to take "call" and be available for work on some nights and weekends. (Meanwhile, I've been doing just that -- taking call---all along.)

So, a few weeks ago, she gets this data entry job with an industrial place. Then she tells me she QUIT that job, and said she wanted to return to her chosen field. She wanted to apply for an open position at a place that I have strong ties to, and she asked if I was ok with that. I said ok, and told her she could even put me down as a reference  ( hell, I want her to be ok, I NEED her to be ok for our daughter.) I even talked to the director of the department and sorta asked her to give my ex a shot, and that I would be fine with her working there.


Today I hear that she didn't really quit that other job, but was let go because her drug test came back positive for coke and meth. Holy sht. Sad to say, I'm really not surprised about the coke, but, good grief, METH?

This information came from my brother (his secretary's mom is the human resources director at the industrial place.) Nobody's 'supposed' to tell anyone. The HR lady wasn't supposed to tell her daughter, and so on. It might even be illegal for the woman to start this story; I dunno. But the bottom line is, I now have this information. I have no way of verifying it, but if it's true (and I strongly suspect it is, given the crew she's been running with) I can't just stand by and watch while my daughter faces this kind of risk.


OK, thanks for wading through this so far. Here are the issues as I see 'em.

1.-----Risk to the child.
     Pretty obvious, here. This is bad. Might not be horrible if she's using only when the kid's not there, but this is METH we're talking about - frequently leads to a downward spiral. But, I have no way of knowing about frequency of use or anything else. She looks ok, doesn't act strung out when I see her. I have no hard data, and I can't go to a judge and say I heard through the grapevine that exW is tweaking, and I want my kid all the time, please.
     What's the next step? I don't even have 'probable cause' (or whatever the applicable phrase might be) to even start up any kind of legal stuff. It's just a rumour (but I believe it.) I'll call the lawyer Monday, but I have a feeling he's gonna say sorry, nothing we can do unless she really screws up in some kind of documented way. This really sucks.


2.-----The recommendation.
     I don't want my name associated with exW in any way I can avoid now. I don't want to tell the ex not to put me down as a reference at this point, because it will tip my hand, and I don't want her to know I know this at this time. I don't want to (and, really, CAN'T) tell the folks at the hospital about this - it's just a rumour, and I don't want to get in trouble for defamation or whatever. But, I feel I owe them an honest assessment. I think I'll say nothing about this to the ex, and tell the department director that I  can no longer encourage them to hire exW. I plan to say nothing negative, but just tell them that I can't recommend exW. I guess they'll get the hint if I do it this way.


3.-----The source.
     My brother likes his secretary, she does great work, and would be difficult to replace. She gossiped about this, then asked my brother not to tell me. But, he HAD to. And I can't ignore it. If it comes out, secretary will be pissed (and might even quit), & her mom will be pissed, and she may even get in big legal trouble. But the decisions those people made to gossip were not MY fault. I have this information now, and if ALL of those folks get upset, so be it. I have to look out for my kid. (right?)



Am I thinking correctly, here? Any input?

[Sybgow]

This one is complicated.

Here's the background. My uBPDexW and I share custody of our 3yo girl. 50-50 time split. exW didn't work for a year during the divorce, & strung it all out, living on temporary spousal support and child support money. (BTW, there's NO way feeding and clothing our kid for two weeks of each month costs what I have to pay the exW - she just burns through that money with no accountabilty.)  At one point, she had to move in with her parents because she couldn't make it on the generous support payments.

Then, once the divorce was final, her income fell dramatically because the spousal support stopped. She got some little clerk's job at the same place her stepfather works. She never went back to her chosen field, because she didn't want to have to take "call" and be available for work on some nights and weekends. (Meanwhile, I've been doing just that -- taking call---all along.)

So, a few weeks ago, she gets this data entry job with an industrial place. Then she tells me she QUIT that job, and said she wanted to return to her chosen field. She wanted to apply for an open position at a place that I have strong ties to, and she asked if I was ok with that. I said ok, and told her she could even put me down as a reference  ( hell, I want her to be ok, I NEED her to be ok for our daughter.) I even talked to the director of the department and sorta asked her to give my ex a shot, and that I would be fine with her working there.


Today I hear that she didn't really quit that other job, but was let go because her drug test came back positive for coke and meth. Holy sht. Sad to say, I'm really not surprised about the coke, but, good grief, METH?

This information came from my brother (his secretary's mom is the human resources director at the industrial place.) Nobody's 'supposed' to tell anyone. The HR lady wasn't supposed to tell her daughter, and so on. It might even be illegal for the woman to start this story; I dunno. But the bottom line is, I now have this information. I have no way of verifying it, but if it's true (and I strongly suspect it is, given the crew she's been running with) I can't just stand by and watch while my daughter faces this kind of risk.


OK, thanks for wading through this so far. Here are the issues as I see 'em.

1.-----Risk to the child.
     Pretty obvious, here. This is bad. Might not be horrible if she's using only when the kid's not there, but this is METH we're talking about - frequently leads to a downward spiral. But, I have no way of knowing about frequency of use or anything else. She looks ok, doesn't act strung out when I see her. I have no hard data, and I can't go to a judge and say I heard through the grapevine that exW is tweaking, and I want my kid all the time, please.
     What's the next step? I don't even have 'probable cause' (or whatever the applicable phrase might be) to even start up any kind of legal stuff. It's just a rumour (but I believe it.) I'll call the lawyer Monday, but I have a feeling he's gonna say sorry, nothing we can do unless she really screws up in some kind of documented way. This really sucks.


2.-----The recommendation.
     I don't want my name associated with exW in any way I can avoid now. I don't want to tell the ex not to put me down as a reference at this point, because it will tip my hand, and I don't want her to know I know this at this time. I don't want to (and, really, CAN'T) tell the folks at the hospital about this - it's just a rumour, and I don't want to get in trouble for defamation or whatever. But, I feel I owe them an honest assessment. I think I'll say nothing about this to the ex, and tell the department director that I  can no longer encourage them to hire exW. I plan to say nothing negative, but just tell them that I can't recommend exW. I guess they'll get the hint if I do it this way.


3.-----The source.
     My brother likes his secretary, she does great work, and would be difficult to replace. She gossiped about this, then asked my brother not to tell me. But, he HAD to. And I can't ignore it. If it comes out, secretary will be pissed (and might even quit), & her mom will be pissed, and she may even get in big legal trouble. But the decisions those people made to gossip were not MY fault. I have this information now, and if ALL of those folks get upset, so be it. I have to look out for my kid. (right?)



Am I thinking correctly, here? Any input?

[Sybgow]

I forgot to ask this. Do I say anything to her mom? She sorta took my side during the split and divorce, but I haven't seen or talked to her since it was final.

I just want to do this right. Protect the kid, give information where I should. I'm a little confused about what to do.

[TeaAmongRoses]

1. Risk to the child  -

Now that you "know" this information,  It seems that keeping a close eye temporarily would be the best course of action - watch for other warning signs from your ex, closely observe your daughter to make sure she is okay.

I understand for you this recent information is a major blow, but to me, as an outsider, it looks like another bale of hay on the haystack. (sorry, couldn't think of a better saying!   :P ) I suspect things are going to get worse/more difficult as your daughter grows up and I am highly highly concerned about her being raised by a BPD mother regardless of the drug use.

To me, the best thing you could do is to find some kind of truly confidential ally - a (good) child social worker/psychologist or some other clinical professional to help you sort through these issues and come up with a plan. If I recall correctly your divorce lawyer was pretty impotent when it came to understanding the BPD stuff, seeing the uniqueness of your situation, and helping to take control of the results. You lost a lot and I think at this point you are looking at the risk to your daughter's well being which is certainly of greater concern than anything financial could be (which was your lawyer's main concern before).

Can you find someone qualified to assit you here? Maybe even at work you have an employee assistance program. To me you could benefit from professional assistance.

2. the recommendation - - -

I agree with your call on this one. Just say you can't recommend her. End of story.

3. The source - - -

I'd caution you against talking with them (or the mom). Small town, rumors everywhere. I think you need to keep the drama DOWN while you come up with a plan for your daughter and observe the situation.

Long and short of it - lay low, my friend, and plan.

Sooooo sorry about this stress. You'll pull through it. You are an awesome dad. You have a lot of influence, where-with-all, and energy. I believe in your ability to pull through this too. Hang in there.

Hugs,
Tea

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[Oy-vey!]

There might be some laws broken in the way this information was shared.  BUT - you now have the information and it is up to you to figure out what to do with it.

#1 - what does your attorney say? Your attorney can advise you whether or not there is anything you can do with the information.
#2 - do you have evidence or suspicion that she has endangered your daughter?  You are right that as long as she doesn't involve your daughter, then there is little to nothing you can do about it. 
#3 - is there another way you might have come across the information? It would spare the secretary & mom any embarassment if you had another source - such as her dealer or someone who she has done the drugs with to corroborate the story you've heard.  Right now the story, as you've received it, is basically a rumor.  Having another source would be good.

Tea is right - just explain that you are no longer comfortable providing a reference for her then end the call. 

Yikes.  Sorry you're having to deal with this!

[Karma Police]

Complicated, but not completely unamenable.

With coke and meth use and BP's penchant toward habitual substance (and heavy) abuse, it won't take long before it starts affecting her parenting--coupled with BP, this is a lethal combination.  To her, and to others around her.  Coke and meth use WILL involve your child.  These are not recreational drugs for 98% of the users.  Are dealers coming to the house?  Do you know for sure that she isn't using in front of the child or using when your child is there?  No.  You need to put the hammer down.  Quickly.

By all means, contact your attorney.  I would also contact social services; you should be able to do this anonymously and provide information concerning suspected drug us (cite extreme "erratic behavior"), and suspected child abuse/neglect. There needs to be a papertrail.

The CPS is obligated to follow up on this.  It might be a slow process, but totally necessary to the health and well-being of your children.  The mental ill untreated ALONE merits immediate action, IMO.  I know people with severe clinical depression and schitzophrenia who deemed it important enough to their children to seek help, and they did, and take care of business now under the advisement of a physician, psychiatrist, and therapist are living substantially great lives.  Anything less that full dedication to taking care of your mental health is immediately suspect to me, and should be to you.

When my ex-partner (non) remained untreated for his clinical depression, I fought for sole legal and physical custody.  There was no way in hell that I was going to subject my child to his social anxiety, bad and impulsive judgement, and frequent, bottomless lows.  This was impetus enough to keep him on meds.  I am not happy about this because the behaviors are still there, and if he ever shows signs of going down that road again, I will try to get his limited visitation revoked. 

Our children cannot advocate for themselves.  YOU must.  Do not give two shts about it being a small town and give yourself any excuse for not acting immediately.  Don't worry about the Betty that decided to have loose lips, but she is an adult and can take care of herself. 

Document EVERYTHING.  Sit down right now and try to remember dates and times of anything really bizarre or negligent and write it down (that shouldn't be too difficult given the scope of BP).  Yes, I firmly believe that children should have the right to see their other parent, but the parent has no right to parent a child if they will most certainly cause the child mental health issues.  We all make mistakes parenting, but most of the screw-ups shouldn't be of that magnitude.  If she wants to be a parent, cool.  She will get help and clean up.  If she doesn't, she will continue to NOT take care of her mental and physical health.  She is making choices.  Make her deal with the consequences.

[Sybgow]

Thanks, everyone.

To clarify, I should say that, based on what I know, she is right now only using recreationally. I don't believe there are dealers coming around - she's given the stuff by the guys and gals she runs with. One is a bigshot plaintiff's lawyer here. She's all tied up with him and his girlfriend and their buddies, and lots of crazy sexual sht with them, too. It's disgusting and sad.

In my second post above, I was really asking about the exW's mom, not the secretary's mom. Do I have a duty (or would it help the situation) to clue HER in? I'm not interested in "ratting out" the exW, but if her folks know what's up, would that be good?


I just hate this. It seems like my daughter is doing BETTER with her mom, now. She used to say things like, "I don't want to go to mommy's house," and "I don't like her." That really freaked me out, but it stopped over the last few months. I simply DON'T know for sure what's going on over there, and I really am powerless. Even if it's all true, and subsequently PROVEN to be true, it's not going to make a bit of difference, legally speaking. They just don't pull kids away from mothers for drug use. More has to happen.


This sucks.

[moesha]

I think that you may get more info over at Coparenting.  There are many parents there dealing with similar custody nightmares.  I'm going to move or split this post so you can receive input over there as well. 

Please report this to Child Protective Services.  It's very disturbing to hear that a 3 year old doesn't want to be with her mommy.  Just because she has stopped saying that doesn't mean things are better.  Perhaps she's just been frightened into not saying anything to you.

CPS does remove children over drug use, as well as "crazy sexual sht".  Do you have any indications that your daughter has been sexually abused?  Your ex has to be paying for her drugs in some manner.  It gives me the willies to imagine the possibilities involving your child.

You are not as powerless as you might feel.  Do you have an attorney? 

[Mr. M]

Your child's life is at stake.

Too bad for those who will be affected by your actions and your actions must be focused on the child.  If it means a complete slash & burn to get to the truth... so be it.