How to enforce boundaries when child is present?

[Think About It....]

My DH's uBPDex knows that he is unlikely to reinforce a boundary when SS is present.  Just yesterday she DEMANDED that SS put DH on the phone with her.  SS held the phone out to Dh and said, "She wants to talk to you", so my DH took the phone.

He didn't want to place SS in the middle, and I understand that completely.  The conversation was brief, not friendly, not angry, and to-the-point.  So I'm fine with the way the conversation went, I'm just frustrated that she continues to gain access into our lives in inappropriate ways.  f

Not to mention, our DS4 said to his Dad ..."I wanted to say something to SS's Mom."  He's a very friendly little guy, conversational, and likes to talk on the phone.  We have not involved him in the drama and he has no idea that neither DH nor I talk to her unless forced.  What do I say to him?


Any advice for how you handle these situations?

[salt]

My DH's uBPDex knows that he is unlikely to reinforce a boundary when SS is present.  Just yesterday she DEMANDED that SS put DH on the phone with her.  SS held the phone out to Dh and said, "She wants to talk to you", so my DH took the phone.

He didn't want to place SS in the middle, and I understand that completely.  The conversation was brief, not friendly, not angry, and to-the-point.  So I'm fine with the way the conversation went, I'm just frustrated that she continues to gain access into our lives in inappropriate ways.  f

Not to mention, our DS4 said to his Dad ..."I wanted to say something to SS's Mom."  He's a very friendly little guy, conversational, and likes to talk on the phone.  We have not involved him in the drama and he has no idea that neither DH nor I talk to her unless forced.  What do I say to him?


Any advice for how you handle these situations?

[namaste]

I think that's a prime opportunity for your DH to model some boundary setting for SS! Couldn't he simply say "Please tell her i'm not available to talk to her right now," with no anger or emotion? Or, if he doesn't want SS to be any part of it, take the phone, say it himself, then hang up.

SHE'S the one putting SS in the middle, not your DH. Calmly enforcing those boundaries will not harm SS, but help him learn to do that with momster himself.

As far as your little one...that's a tough one. We have an infant who will need to learn this stuff later too and I've thought about how we'll handle it when it happens. At that age, diversion is probably the best response. When she's a little older, you can start giving her age-appropriate explanations along the lines of "SS's mom usually just talks to SS" or "sometimes mommy and daddy see things differently than SS's mom."

[Love the man hate the BP]

Just yesterday she DEMANDED that SS put DH on the phone with her.  SS held the phone out to Dh and said, "She wants to talk to you", so my DH took the phone.

This used to happen ALL the time here, and I agree with namaste that it's the momster who is putting the child in the middle, not your DH.  When my SO starting refusing to take the phone, calmly and without drama, it role-modeled amazing stuff for his son.  It was not long after that (and our situation is a bit different as you know) that ss began setting limits himself with his mother on the phone.  Such as..."you are not making sense right now, I need to hang up."  Knocked my socks off, but that's exactly what he said.  And he has continued to say things like that...slowly and not all the time, but he's testing his wings a bit.

And where did he learn that boundary-setting technique?  From watching his dad do the same. 

I don't know anything about having little, little ones anymore.  But I do know that I will go to the ends of the earth to keep my young teens away from this woman.  The same as I would to keep them away from any dangerous situation or person.  Remember, bp's know EXACTLY what to say, subtly and uncannily, to cause the deepest wound they can.  Read some stuff on the Unchosen Board, and I think you'll keep your young ones away from any potential for harm.  Perhaps you might even gain some insight by posting there as well.  I know I have.  No one knows the pain better than the adult children who have suffered it.  Peace...LTM

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[evien]

My daughter has wanted to talk to or stay over with (god forbid!) the skids BPmom. In limited doses and inpublic BPmom is very friendly and charming (as is DD!), so I see the attraction. But, especially when she was smaller (7,8ish), I've told her that "Yeah I can see why that might be fun, but its not really appropriate." When little, she wouldn't question it, and when she got older I told her "we parent differently from BPmom and I wouldn't feel comfortable with that." We say the same thing about any number of things, so it's just another grossly unfair NO from her overbearing Gestapo parents! More recently, as my BPsis (DD's aunt) had increasingly whackadoo behavior, I've said, when its come up and was appropriate, "well, BPmom has some issues similar to BPaunt's, so its healthier to keep some good boundaries." A teaching moment, etc. I don't talk to my skids about their BPmom at all (and they never bring her up), but my commitment as a parent is to keep communication with my DD open, and to tell the truth in a way appropriate to her age unless to do so would harm her. I abide by DH's wish to pretend that BPmom is normal and healthy in front of his kids, unless they themselves ask me a direct question about her/the situation (in which case I refuse to ignore the elephant).


Really, I think this is a GREAT opportunity to start modeling/teaching healthy boundaries for your child.

Kuila

[laurena82]

take the phone, say it himself, then hang up.

I'd vote for that one.

Not sure what to say about the 4 year old... :-\...however, if the phone isnt being passed around to others, like Dad, then 4 yo probably wouldnt think to ask to talk also...(modeling again, huh?  )

[tigereyes]

Agree with the above. Children, even small ones, are not made of glass. It's okay to enforce healthy boundaries in a calm manner. You will be modeling behavior from which your child will benefit for the rest of his life.

So the way to enforce boundaries with children present is to enforce boundaries with children present. (Yeah, I know, Dept. of Redundancy Dept. :)

[happygirl]

I think that it is crucial that dad does say no.  I believe that for his son, he needs to model ways to say no to the mom so that the son can learn that BPDmomsters desires are not required to be met. 

I agree that it causes some angst for the dad when telling child no and should the child be subjected to abusive language on the phone, dad takes the phone from child, calmly states to psycho mom "you will not speak to our son in that manner" and hangs the phone up, turn off the ringer and give the kid a break.

This is a great time to talk to the kid about guilt, about his feelings and about the kids right to be treated decent and introduce boundaries to the son.  He gets to see his dad stick up for him also.

The worst thing is to perpetuate the problem of squeezing the kid and dad getting sucked in each time.  Remember things do get worse but when they do, this is usually a great teaching time that the little guy could use.

As to letting the four year old talk, I wouldn't put my kid on the phone with an acknowledged pedophile and I wouldn't ever, for one second, let my child interact with her.  Unfortunately in my situation, I have no choice so I envy each one of you mothers who have the choice to protect your child.

HG

[salt]

HG - I am sorry you have no choice.   :'(

I do liken exposing DS to upbdex to giving him free access to razor blades or household cleansers.  Keep out of the reach of children. 

[noway]

DH has been in this spot before. Keeps his phone off when SS is with him. And when it is on, never ever answers it anyways. Bpdex never wants to speak with DH, just SS.

BPDex has called DH when SS is with her about issues for him paying for things... promising SS then putting it on DH, giving SS entitlement for issues he should not be handling at all. DH told SS that he will not discuss issues with SS when he is with his mother, and its not for him to discuss with DH.

Dh is really NC and early on, got burned once with emails, and the phone thing. Bpdex is cut off completely. That sucks that BPDex uses your SS that way - talk about manipulating her child to speak with your H. How pathetic.

Dh's motto is unless there is an emergency, he has no reason to talk to BPDex. Hence the NC policy.
 I would probably confront BPDex on her intrusions, that its not okay to use a child to speak with him if its not an emergency, and he will record all messages from now on, and resort to certified mail for communication. Play hard ball maybe? She is still being given permission to intrude, DH needs to fix it. Its your home your time and its not okay for her to intrude on that.

 

[Mr. M]

Don't answer the phone.  It works for me.