In need of some good advice...

[Think About It...]

My fiance / Now ex fiance has borderline personality disorder, and is recieving treatment (Counseling, Meds and is supposed to be getting DBT set up) but she makes decisions that seem totally irrational and puts herself in danger time after time. I have been her friend for over 5 years now and we have been engaged and living together for a year.

Just recently she has really revved up the irrational activities and has broken up with me (I believe she is seeing someone else) She is moving out of the house and said she needs time to focus only on her. She doesnt seem to be able to empathize with anything that is happening other than she feels like she needs to leave. I go to counseling with her and have done my best to help her to beat this thing but the closer we get the more she pushes me away and the more she "Acts Out".

She is suffering from intense paranoya, doesnt remember things she says or does, gets super angry and aggrevated from small setbacks, feelings of worthlessness, and it seems like she has split me black for very long periods of time for about three monthes now.

She is moving out on sunday and I am being as supportive as I can of her (Giving her some of our house I.E. the loveseat, and all the girly stuff in the place) and she still seems like she is mad at me. She keeps asking for money, and I feel like I am just like a household appliance to her, sort of like she uses me.

She has broken up with me about 5 times already since weve been engaged (Each time that I find out she is being decietful, talking to an ex bf, emailing etc) but this time she is actually moving out of the house.

I love her and want her to get the best help she can, but she goes into denial about her sickness and keeps running over new people and burning bridges (Running away from the people who are closest to her).  Any advice on what to do from here?

(I am going to try to move on and possibly help from the standpoint of a friend from here on..what do you think of that?)

[Brandaddy1]

My fiance / Now ex fiance has borderline personality disorder, and is recieving treatment (Counseling, Meds and is supposed to be getting DBT set up) but she makes decisions that seem totally irrational and puts herself in danger time after time. I have been her friend for over 5 years now and we have been engaged and living together for a year.

Just recently she has really revved up the irrational activities and has broken up with me (I believe she is seeing someone else) She is moving out of the house and said she needs time to focus only on her. She doesnt seem to be able to empathize with anything that is happening other than she feels like she needs to leave. I go to counseling with her and have done my best to help her to beat this thing but the closer we get the more she pushes me away and the more she "Acts Out".

She is suffering from intense paranoya, doesnt remember things she says or does, gets super angry and aggrevated from small setbacks, feelings of worthlessness, and it seems like she has split me black for very long periods of time for about three monthes now.

She is moving out on sunday and I am being as supportive as I can of her (Giving her some of our house I.E. the loveseat, and all the girly stuff in the place) and she still seems like she is mad at me. She keeps asking for money, and I feel like I am just like a household appliance to her, sort of like she uses me.

She has broken up with me about 5 times already since weve been engaged (Each time that I find out she is being decietful, talking to an ex bf, emailing etc) but this time she is actually moving out of the house.

I love her and want her to get the best help she can, but she goes into denial about her sickness and keeps running over new people and burning bridges (Running away from the people who are closest to her).  Any advice on what to do from here?

(I am going to try to move on and possibly help from the standpoint of a friend from here on..what do you think of that?)

[TonyC]

could you sincerly be with her just as friends?
or would that just keep the two of you in reach of each other, and you mentioned 5 break ups, ex bf , etc

put a ring on a finger you just dont break up, and move out for two weeks while you regroup

tonyc

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[Chris]

Brandaddy,

You can't help her. You cannot change anyone else. You can change yourself, that's where it stops...

Your intentions are clear, but your girlfriend isn't capable of understanding and living with who she is yet. I think it's great that she's getting into therapy, but it's a terribly long road and very difficult. Mine never even got as far as yours...

The closer you become the more she acts out... Yes, BPD is a disorder of emotional regulation and increases with intimacy. The closer you get, the worse her disorder comes to the fore. Consider whether or not you like what you see now and know that it gets worse the deeper into the relationship you go..

Do you like the relationship? Not do you like this woman, do you like the relationship? Because if she comes back and gets into therapy properly there will be a very rocky road ahead...

Also I would strongly suggest that you have NO children with this woman. BPD gets worse during (and in my experience after) pregnancy and you will expose a small child to this behaviour. If you are considering the possibility of having children with her please read up in the thread called living with parents...
I have a nearly two year old son and am fighting for more time, clearer custody rights now...

If she is pronounced recovered after 2-5 yrs of full commitment and you seen true changes then come back and think again...

back to you:  Why are you attracted, still involved with this woman? What does that say about you?

That is the true key here...

Keep us posted and stay strong,


Chris

[Brandaddy1]

Brandaddy,

You can't help her. You cannot change anyone else. You can change yourself, that's where it stops...

Your intentions are clear, but your girlfriend isn't capable of understanding and living with who she is yet. I think it's great that she's getting into therapy, but it's a terribly long road and very difficult. Mine never even got as far as yours...

The closer you become the more she acts out... Yes, BPD is a disorder of emotional regulation and increases with intimacy. The closer you get, the worse her disorder comes to the fore. Consider whether or not you like what you see now and know that it gets worse the deeper into the relationship you go..

Do you like the relationship? Not do you like this woman, do you like the relationship? Because if she comes back and gets into therapy properly there will be a very rocky road ahead...

Also I would strongly suggest that you have NO children with this woman. BPD gets worse during (and in my experience after) pregnancy and you will expose a small child to this behaviour. If you are considering the possibility of having children with her please read up in the thread called living with parents...
I have a nearly two year old son and am fighting for more time, clearer custody rights now...

If she is pronounced recovered after 2-5 yrs of full commitment and you seen true changes then come back and think again...

back to you:  Why are you attracted, still involved with this woman? What does that say about you?

That is the true key here...

Keep us posted and stay strong,


Chris

Thanks for the reply Chris.  When I say being a friend, I am meaning more of  "being friendly as she packs her things", and helping her get settled into a place that is safe  (Because god knows she sometimes ends up in bad places)  I think I have what you might call "Superman Complex" where I try to help people who are close to me when they seem to be too weak to do so.  (With positive support, encouragement, and helping them to make baby steps towards their goals i.e. taking care of themself, becomming more independant, preparring for a tough job or exam)    I love her very much as a person, I am not in love with her as a partner , but feel more like a big brother or a father figure in a way at this point after all the babysitting ,rages and episodes that we have gone through.  part of me still loves her like that, but that part is obviously suppressed and was more egged on by her intial stage  (which lasted 5 1/2 years)  where she confided in me, idealized me and I was always her support when times got rough. (She also was my support through numerous relationships and hardships that life brought upon me).    It wasnt intil 8 months into us living together that it got really really bad.  She got off the neurontin, her parents got divorced ( Really messed with her) and she has seemed to slip farther and farther away since.  Her cycles are now so close together it is rare to have 2 or 3 days in a row where she is stabilized.   She is now here in a place that is 2000 miles away from any of her family and I am seemingly her only real support  (being that she never tells new people the truth about herself) and I feel that she will keep coming back  (I believe it is called re-engaging) as soon as I move on.   This is going to be a major dilemma and I guess what I am trying to say is...

I want to help.  (also by letting her help herself and letting go) 

I am a stable person, but have been taken to my wits end in this relationship being inside the box, instead of my usual role of helping her primarily over the phone.

I just wonder if she is going to try to come back, and if/when she does, what I will do about it  (I feel that she will come back needy or there will be some new catastrophy that I will have to aid)

I hope the DBT works and I hope the therapist can help as well.

 

[Chris]

Have you read SWOE? If not I suggest you do.

Also, and this is tough love here bro...: The superman complex isn't about other people. It's about you.

Why do you feel the need to gain attention in this manner? What are you missing in your life that you feel this need?

You have to take a really good look at yourself if you want to strong enough to deal with whatever drama she will throw at you. To be able to step back from facilitating her low-functioning behaviour. As long as you 'help' her as a friend, the steps she takes will always be 'baby steps'.


I'm not attacking you, but I was exactly doing what you have done. My BPDex-SO is a waif and needs constant care. I don't do that anymore and I am now no longer in that relationship. (Just explaining where I'm coming from, so that you can form your own opinion)

Stay strong and keep us posted,


Chris

[Brandaddy1]

could you sincerly be with her just as friends?
or would that just keep the two of you in reach of each other, and you mentioned 5 break ups, ex bf , etc

put a ring on a finger you just dont break up, and move out for two weeks while you regroup

tonyc

Hey Tony,

    Is this a common thing for you guys  (The rages where the BPD partner says they are going to leave or says we are broken up) ?    

[Brandaddy1]

Have you read SWOE? If not I suggest you do.

Also, and this is tough love here bro...: The superman complex isn't about other people. It's about you.

Why do you feel the need to gain attention in this manner? What are you missing in your life that you feel this need?

You have to take a really good look at yourself if you want to strong enough to deal with whatever drama she will throw at you. To be able to step back from facilitating her low-functioning behaviour. As long as you 'help' her as a friend, the steps she takes will always be 'baby steps'.


I'm not attacking you, but I was exactly doing what you have done. My BPDex-SO is a waif and needs constant care. I don't do that anymore and I am now no longer in that relationship. (Just explaining where I'm coming from, so that you can form your own opinion)

Stay strong and keep us posted,


Chris

Hey Chris,

      SWOE is a great book and has helped me a lot. What I hope is happening with her leaving is her taking contol of her life  (Which may very well be happening)  She said this is the first time she feels like she can take are of herself and she needs to do it for herself. I am proud of her for that and again I say I really hope that is what is going on. The funny thing is, she is high functioning as well as low functioning.   It is like pulling teeth to get her to call her doctors or do the things she "has" to do,  but sometimes  (Now for example)  she has gotten 2 new jobs in a matter of a week  has found a new place to live and I really hope this works for her.    And I didnt feel like you were attacking me buddy, I am all eyes on your comments.   In the end I will be fine, and if the best thing for me to do is have NC that is what will happen.

[TonyC]

ok mary lived with me off and on for 4 years...

one night im leaving for work...7 pm...she comes to the door half dressed and says hurry home baby ill be waiting...i call her from work to tell her i was thinking anout leaving early to come home...she says godd huury up...i get home at 3 am instead of 4 am ...empty house she moved to her daughters...didnt call or anything for 3 months i called once to tell her to stay away from ... after 3 months she comes in my house , at 5am  wakes me up kisses me and tells me shes sorry

assshole i am i forgave her ... her pscyh told me to stay away from her,, well guess what i let her move back in the honeymoon was over after 4 months..she started up her bullsht again..over , done , i am too good a person to deal with this ... and guess what there are thousands of women out there that dont need , daily sit downs to discuss thier mental status...

the last statement i will remember her for...

i told her to move out...her response you are now dead to me!
next sentence "tony why dont you make love to me anymore""

what do you think? you my friend will go thru what i just wrote or something real close or? did it happen already

tonyc

[Brandaddy1]

ok mary lived with me off and on for 4 years...

one night im leaving for work...7 pm...she comes to the door half dressed and says hurry home baby ill be waiting...i call her from work to tell her i was thinking anout leaving early to come home...she says godd huury up...i get home at 3 am instead of 4 am ...empty house she moved to her daughters...didnt call or anything for 3 months i called once to tell her to stay away from ... after 3 months she comes in my house , at 5am  wakes me up kisses me and tells me shes sorry

assshole i am i forgave her ... her pscyh told me to stay away from her,, well guess what i let her move back in the honeymoon was over after 4 months..she started up her bullsht again..over , done , i am too good a person to deal with this ... and guess what there are thousands of women out there that dont need , daily sit downs to discuss thier mental status...

the last statement i will remember her for...

i told her to move out...her response you are now dead to me!
next sentence "tony why dont you make love to me anymore""

what do you think? you my friend will go thru what i just wrote or something real close or? did it happen already

tonyc

This is the first time she is actually leaving. The other break ups were pretty much BS (Anything from a small argument to very strange times when she was acting out)     I can not say that what happened to you will not happen to me, because I feel that when she feels I am gone from her life she trying to desperetly get me back, she always wants what she doesnt have.  (I think that is true for most people though)

[Brandaddy1]

ok mary lived with me off and on for 4 years...

one night im leaving for work...7 pm...she comes to the door half dressed and says hurry home baby ill be waiting...i call her from work to tell her i was thinking anout leaving early to come home...she says godd huury up...i get home at 3 am instead of 4 am ...empty house she moved to her daughters...didnt call or anything for 3 months i called once to tell her to stay away from ... after 3 months she comes in my house , at 5am  wakes me up kisses me and tells me shes sorry

assshole i am i forgave her ... her pscyh told me to stay away from her,, well guess what i let her move back in the honeymoon was over after 4 months..she started up her bullsht again..over , done , i am too good a person to deal with this ... and guess what there are thousands of women out there that dont need , daily sit downs to discuss thier mental status...

the last statement i will remember her for...

i told her to move out...her response you are now dead to me!
next sentence "tony why dont you make love to me anymore""

what do you think? you my friend will go thru what i just wrote or something real close or? did it happen already

tonyc

[liberateddad]

Brandaddy

You have to ask yourself, Is this the way I want to live my life?  WOuld I want to expose children to this?  All the lies, anger, torment and fear. 

I lived in fear for 4 years.  I still look over my shoulder.   You are better than that.  You deserve better. The problem is believing so.   You are blinded by so called love.  Is it truly love.  That you will have to answer but only when you have distanced yourself from her and can look at things objectively.  But remember.  You can not help her. 

Let her go.  The pain is horrendous but you will feel better in the end.  Have NO CONTACT...none.    Be good to yourself.  You deserve better.   LD

[Brandaddy1]

Brandaddy

You have to ask yourself, Is this the way I want to live my life?  WOuld I want to expose children to this?  All the lies, anger, torment and fear. 

I lived in fear for 4 years.  I still look over my shoulder.   You are better than that.  You deserve better. The problem is believing so.   You are blinded by so called love.  Is it truly love.  That you will have to answer but only when you have distanced yourself from her and can look at things objectively.  But remember.  You can not help her. 

Let her go.  The pain is horrendous but you will feel better in the end.  Have NO CONTACT...none.    Be good to yourself.  You deserve better.   LD

Yeah I feel like I am not as emotionally engrained to where I feel I need to be in a romantic relationship with her as it might initially seem (Because I am posting in the not sure forum) but I am ok with her leaving and am actually pretty excited for a new start. I will keep you posted. Thanks for the encouraging words.