POLL: Warning Signs That You're Dating a Loser - Carver, PhD

[Bumpy Road]

i can yell you this... i both loved and hated this article... as a non it made complete sense and as a PD it bugged the sht out of me... but I understand and respect it. I wish... for my own protection I had read it and embedded it into my psyche years ago.

[gertrude]

I just realized something - the author talks about small kindnesses and how we feel grateful for them - they give us hope and they keep us in the relationship.  I think I was finally able to leave b/c even those small kindnesses were coming more infrequently - and it was getting colder, nastier and more distant in between - Thank you my darling BPD for changing from an intermittent A**hole to a permanent one.  I think that that is what made some of the difference.  Carol

[LOAnnie]

I just wanted to add that this author's articles (and other psychologists' articles on personality disorder) can also be found at a site called Counseling Resource:

http://counsellingresource.com/distress/personality-disorders/understanding/index.html

Plus, you can write in questions and the psychologists will answer at the site!

-LOAnnie

Dr. Carver has several handouts on his web site www.drjoecarver.com.  Since these too are of interest to many of us, here are the ones currently featured on his Articles menu:

• Personality Disorders: The Controllers, Abusers, Manipulators and Users in Relationships
• Identifying Losers, Controllers and Abusers in Relationships
• Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser
• Emotional Memory Management
• The Chemical Imbalance in Mental Health Problems
• Understanding Depression
• What Are "Bad Nerves"
• The Highway Patrol Approach to Parental Discipline
• ADHD: Causes, Symptoms, and Treatment

[Sir Andrew]

That article that is on this site about Leaving a BPD partner was word for word identical to Leaving a partner with NPD.

I searched for it but found the original article was "Warning Signs you are Dating a Loser" by the same author and seems to have been retitled for more than one mental illness or disorder.

I think this article that was renamed for Leaving a BPD Partner is not very helpful or even valid. In my opinion it doesn't address at all the role played and the damage done and why the advice that is so smoothly offered just can't work easily for most people or at least most people posting here.

I think it's almost a disservice to this forum to post an article written for "Loser Relationships" and used for NPD and BPD and any "Loser Relationships" as if there are not specific issues with each.

[GreenMango]

I think this article that was renamed for Leaving a BPD Partner is not very helpful or even valid. In my opinion it doesn't address at all the role played and the damage done and why the advice that is so smoothly offered just can't work easily for most people or at least most people posting here.

I think it's almost a disservice to this forum to post an article written for "Loser Relationships" and used for NPD and BPD and any "Loser Relationships" as if there are not specific issues with each.

Can you be more specific on what you find invalid in the excerpt printed on BPDFamily?

[Sir Andrew]

I think this article that was renamed for Leaving a BPD Partner is not very helpful or even valid. In my opinion it doesn't address at all the role played and the damage done and why the advice that is so smoothly offered just can't work easily for most people or at least most people posting here.

I think it's almost a disservice to this forum to post an article written for "Loser Relationships" and used for NPD and BPD and any "Loser Relationships" as if there are not specific issues with each.

Can you be more specific on what you find invalid in the excerpt printed on BPDFamily?

Boy you confused me by moving the post!

I had read that same article relating to NPD, (verbatim just substituted Narcissist to Borderline).

As the article, as I can see now was credited here in 2007 as referred to in it's original title, The Loser, is somewhat helpful but not specific to dealing with a BPD persona OR from my understanding of NPD as well.

I think the article IS good advice for the 'average' relationship with a  "Loser' as it seems it was originally intended. The advice for a rather 'simplistic' relationship, as compared to the extremely complex dynamics at play with a Borderline might leave the 'average' person suffering with leaving feeling to be the 'loser' in their inability to follow such 'plain vanilla' advice that really doesn't touch on any specifics in the extremely powerful dynamics that can be potentially devastating to (actually both parties) the person 'leaving'.

I think this forum has been a crucial part of me starting the journey of recovery and has benefitted me far more than expensive and time consuming therapy that set me off down the wrong road more than once.

Lastly, with the literal vast amount of accumulated experiences we have all shared, I would hope a more comprehensive (and helpful) article of this type would be on the forum and not this (in my opinion) very pedestrian, light and 'fluffy' article that does serve a purpose in it's original form for it's intended audience. A person simply trying to end a relationship with "A Loser", not someone suffering with a mental illness that is very complex and has specific challenges that most of us are and have been experiencing.

Lastly, "The Loser" was written I believe in 2003 and posted here in 2007. At the time, maybe it was more valid in the absence of better more specific information on Borderline Personality Disorder. I can obviously see positive benefits of the article. But as said, this site is so packed with so much information, so many stories and I would hope a better article that addressed more finely focused dynamics and difficulties.

Thank you for moving my post and for asking for my thoughts. I think this forum is the best run and managed I have participated in. Extremely well done and helpful!

[ForeverDad]

Much of what is written in Dr. Carver's handouts is written in general terms, without clinical nomenclature.  He's writing for the general reader, the target or victim, not other professionals.  Regarding Identifying Losers, Controllers and Abusers in Relationships which is written in non-specific terms as respects specific Personality Disorders, Dr. Carver wrote this: "Over the years, this has been my most popular article. The article offers twenty signs of an abusive, controlling, and manipulative individual.  The "Loser" may be a spouse, romantic partner, parent, sibling, or friend. The article helps not only identify these individuals, but offers suggestions on detaching from abusers/controller and reclaiming your life."

Actually, evaluating the behaviors and not depending upon clinical labels is the way most courts view things too.  If a person hasn't already been diagnosed - and often even if they do have a diagnosis - the courts seem to prefer to make decisions based upon the behaviors and patterns of behavior.  At least, that's generally the common conclusions reached here.

Much like an alcoholic wouldn't necessarily be blocked from parenting just because of being an alcoholic.  Being an alcoholic by itself doesn't mean the kids will be harmed, whether by abuse or by neglect.  However, if the person drives while under the influence, yes, that ought to have consequences or restrictions affecting parenting, and doubly so if the parent drives impaired with the kids.  Same for if the parent gets into drunken rages, in extended drunken stupors or whatever while caring for the kids.  It's the behaviors that get the most attention, not a diagnostic label.

While it's nice to know the likely diagnosis since it does help us feel less lost when weird behaviors occur, it's even more important to know how that knowledge helps us deal with the predictably erratic and inconsistent patterns of behavior.  Predictably unpredictable.  Consistently inconsistent.