CRISIS... NEED ADVICE NOW

[Think About It....]

I walked out last night.  I don't know what to do.  I know I am just there to support him, not get involved.

As a non married to a non with a ubpx, I am helpless.

He came home last night and announced that his daughter called asking permission to not come this weekend for visitation.

Apparently, there is an Easter egg hunt Saturday.

She stuck their child in the middle of the custody problems by having his daughter call instead of her.  At first, he thought it was a church function, but learned it is to be at their house. 

He has Good Friday off, and this is the last weekend off work for two more weeks.  He only gets two weekends off in a row, then works two weekends, alternating.  The ubpx knows this. 

We got a copy last week of the most recent court order for scheduled visitation to show the sheriff so he can enforce it when she refuses.  We have contempt charges court date on Monday in which she is suppose to go to jail for interference.  We didn't have to use it, she allowed them to come last weekend.  Figured she got the contempt court date papers.

I just bought all the groceries for a nice turkey and dressing meal, candy and toys for their baskets, plus began decorating the yard and house yesterday.  Got most of my work done so I could be off.  Was prepared to be there too if he had to take the sheriff and the visitation papers this time, knowing it was Easter weekend and she would try something.

Well, he caved.  Didn't even question or protest.  He said he was tired of the fight.

Damn him.  I tried to be strong, comfort him, plan our weekend without the kids.  I kept thinking about how much we have accomplished in the past year, all the battles fought, and all the battles yet to come in the future.

She has so much power over him to put him right back in the FOG.

He was all set for getting custody of the kids, putting her in jail, putting her husband in jail for threatening him with the gun, ready to pay the lawyer another grand to make her suffer the consequences of her actions against him all these years.  We still have court monday for the contempt charges for her not giving him visitation.  The kids will just see him as the bad guy, putting their mom in jail.  We were suppose to prepare them for her suffering the consequences of breaking the law, that he did not want her to go to jail, but she was breaking the law.  They were sitting there in court too when the judge said it. 

I cried.  I calmed.  I began crying again.  I tried not to let him know.  He drifted off to sleep.  I took an extra nerve pill trying to sleep.  I kept crying.  I quietly got out of bed, dressed, and left him a note to not come looking for me.  I needed a time out, alone.  I needed peace, solitude and meditation.  He awoke and caught me before I could leave.  Talked me back into bed.  Wanted me to talk to him, then when I told him how he says one thing then does another, he got defensive.

He didn't want to hear about how he is the only one in control of his life.  How he gave up his long fought for battle by giving permission to lose yet another weekend.  He could have gotten the kids friday as scheduled, taken them to the hunt, then taken them back home as scheduled, but no, he gave permission to give her his visitation weekend, knowing he did not have a weekend to swap out.  He only gets two weekends off a month from work. 

We have won so much in getting visitation with his kids.  We still have court monday for her contempt.

I cannot do it for him.  I cannot watch him not fight and sit around feeling sorry for himself.  He is slowly dying.  I cannot watch.

What should I do?  I need to take care of myself.  I want him to do something for himself!

I cannot control him, or her, just myself, and I walked because it is killing me.  I am a fighter, an analyzer. 

I want opinions.  It is Easter weekend.  He could have at least seen them some.  He caved!  Court is Monday.

FOG- fear of being the bad guy, obligation to keep her happy for the sake of the kids, guilt?  Not sure about that one...
Help!

[ruralstressed]

I walked out last night.  I don't know what to do.  I know I am just there to support him, not get involved.

As a non married to a non with a ubpx, I am helpless.

He came home last night and announced that his daughter called asking permission to not come this weekend for visitation.

Apparently, there is an Easter egg hunt Saturday.

She stuck their child in the middle of the custody problems by having his daughter call instead of her.  At first, he thought it was a church function, but learned it is to be at their house. 

He has Good Friday off, and this is the last weekend off work for two more weeks.  He only gets two weekends off in a row, then works two weekends, alternating.  The ubpx knows this. 

We got a copy last week of the most recent court order for scheduled visitation to show the sheriff so he can enforce it when she refuses.  We have contempt charges court date on Monday in which she is suppose to go to jail for interference.  We didn't have to use it, she allowed them to come last weekend.  Figured she got the contempt court date papers.

I just bought all the groceries for a nice turkey and dressing meal, candy and toys for their baskets, plus began decorating the yard and house yesterday.  Got most of my work done so I could be off.  Was prepared to be there too if he had to take the sheriff and the visitation papers this time, knowing it was Easter weekend and she would try something.

Well, he caved.  Didn't even question or protest.  He said he was tired of the fight.

Damn him.  I tried to be strong, comfort him, plan our weekend without the kids.  I kept thinking about how much we have accomplished in the past year, all the battles fought, and all the battles yet to come in the future.

She has so much power over him to put him right back in the FOG.

He was all set for getting custody of the kids, putting her in jail, putting her husband in jail for threatening him with the gun, ready to pay the lawyer another grand to make her suffer the consequences of her actions against him all these years.  We still have court monday for the contempt charges for her not giving him visitation.  The kids will just see him as the bad guy, putting their mom in jail.  We were suppose to prepare them for her suffering the consequences of breaking the law, that he did not want her to go to jail, but she was breaking the law.  They were sitting there in court too when the judge said it. 

I cried.  I calmed.  I began crying again.  I tried not to let him know.  He drifted off to sleep.  I took an extra nerve pill trying to sleep.  I kept crying.  I quietly got out of bed, dressed, and left him a note to not come looking for me.  I needed a time out, alone.  I needed peace, solitude and meditation.  He awoke and caught me before I could leave.  Talked me back into bed.  Wanted me to talk to him, then when I told him how he says one thing then does another, he got defensive.

He didn't want to hear about how he is the only one in control of his life.  How he gave up his long fought for battle by giving permission to lose yet another weekend.  He could have gotten the kids friday as scheduled, taken them to the hunt, then taken them back home as scheduled, but no, he gave permission to give her his visitation weekend, knowing he did not have a weekend to swap out.  He only gets two weekends off a month from work. 

We have won so much in getting visitation with his kids.  We still have court monday for her contempt.

I cannot do it for him.  I cannot watch him not fight and sit around feeling sorry for himself.  He is slowly dying.  I cannot watch.

What should I do?  I need to take care of myself.  I want him to do something for himself!

I cannot control him, or her, just myself, and I walked because it is killing me.  I am a fighter, an analyzer. 

I want opinions.  It is Easter weekend.  He could have at least seen them some.  He caved!  Court is Monday.

FOG- fear of being the bad guy, obligation to keep her happy for the sake of the kids, guilt?  Not sure about that one...
Help!

[Oy-vey!]

I cannot control him, or her, just myself, and I walked because it is killing me.  I am a fighter, an analyzer.

If you cannot remove yourself from HIS fight - then you need to stay gone.  RS - you have taken this on when it is NOT YOURS TO FIGHT.

Remove yourself from his crap.  Do what you want to do for Easter - with or without his kid, it is still Easter.  Why is it dependent upon what he is giving in to his xW?  If you had invited someone who called at the last minute to cancel - you'd still make your dinner without them, yes? 

Your dH sounds like he's healthy enough to let go when it will do nothing to help his position as his father or her position as a daughter.

Find a therapist and get some help for yourself.

[happygirl]

I walked out last night.  I don't know what to do.  I know I am just there to support him, not get involved.

Rural, I don't think that you are going to like what I have to say and I recognize that you are in crisis right now but here goes.

This is not your battle and not your fight and he gets to decide how to fight.  I know that you are hugely invested, all of us secondary nons are invested, often too much because we see the long run and the non sees the short run.

But, that being said, he gets to decide and I can see why he did.  There are at least two other threads here talking about being done.  I will go back and name them for you when I am done.

My honest advice is the same advice that I am giving to myself.  Let it go.  Let him let it go.

That doesn't mean to roll over and cave.  That means to let the court process go through, continue with documentation and keep on with the contempt issues.  In the meantime, she is winning and will continue to win and forcing the kids to come over against their selfish mother's needs only continues the chaos and he has wisely said "I'm done".

It may sicken you that she is winning but our first loyalty is to our SO.  At this moment in time, they need us as a loving support and a soft place to land.  In my opinion, it is our first responsibility.  Once he has made that decision, it is done and you focus on the positive.

I am not saying to give up, not in any fashion.  continue to work towards a more healthy situation and work with the legal system to help you guys out.  Get the book Divorce Poison if you haven't already and work through it.

You live to fight another day, rural, you  really do.  As the SO, by maintaining the chaos to fight the fight, we really become no different than the BPD except that our motives may be more pure.

So, can you guys do something that is completely not related to the situation?  Shut off the phones, take a moonlight drive, enjoy each other and treasure what it is that you do share?

Rural, before you think that this is an unreasonable response, I want you to know, we are in the same boat this week.  Walt was to have had spring break and she violated the agreement, lied to the PC and left us with the same rage and Walt with the "I'm done" feeling.  I understand your extreme distress but it will not help any of you.  Try to let it go and focus on him.

Hope that helps, I'll go look for the other posts for you to read.

HG

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? The focus of this board is about understanding the child, their needs, and supporting them in an intelligent and non self-sacrificing way. If your topic is mostly about the other parent and you are divorced, please go to Rebuilding our Life. If your topic is mostly about legal/custody issues, please go to Family law, Divorce, and Custody. If your topic is mostly about the other parent and you are still married, please go to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner. If you need help moving a thread, please contact a moderator. We are glad to help. :)

[Mr. M]

Only you can decide what is best for... YOU.  It's a shame that he chose to cave so close to a very meaningful (and apparently hopeful) court date on Monday.  He needed to stick to the current schedule without deviation and his cave could be construed as his not being serious about the other situations.

It's kind of hard to go into a court pressing for custodial interference while tossing away a scheduled weekend the very weekend before the hearing.

Very sorry to hear of your predicament.  I wish you all the best.

[Peace4us]

Rural

I know how much this must hurt. I know you have been fighting for so long only to just have that white flag thrown up.  AND when you feel so close to getting some answers and closure.

There is no right or wrong here.  I can appreciate him not having much fight left, its exhausting.  I wish he could appreciate how you feel.

What is at issue here is unfulfilled expectations. Like everything you put your heart and soul into something and its all for  not.  Expectations and measurements.  We deserve to be considered when we put so much into events, but its ours. We create them, the expectations.  Life is often not fair.  I do  not have my kids for Easter, but I make the sacrifices in order to get the holidays I really want.  I can have an Easter egg hunt in October if I want to (and have ,LOL) Unfulfiled expectations lead to huge feelings of disappointment, sadness, loss, deflation. I understand it only too well. I put way too much emphasis on the moments, the events, the memories, the need for people being close to me, the acknowledgement, the reward of the feelings of being close to my family.

Dealing with the disappointments in life is something I too struggle with constantly.  What helps me is that I feel when a door closes, somewhere a window opens, I just need to look. Oy is so good, and so clear.  You now could have an Easter weekend with H.  Make that dinner, maybe invite a friend, maybe this is a you weekend that will bring about something else you were meant to do.

Sometimes in the wrath of unlaid plans comes a moment that was meant to come.

I hope you collect your emotions and make a choice that works best for you, what this weekend can be.  I understand the hurt here, I do, but what does it do for you to carry it too long and hard?  What is the cost?  Can this be turned around and made to rejuvenate the two of you, to identify how to combat this issue and regroup to show up and be stronger for Monday?

I do not know, but maybe you do...

((ruralstressed))

I do wish you a Happy Easter, one of reflection, peace and love


Peace4us

[happygirl]

Here you go, rural, here are the links from LTM, Srndpt, and myself, all posts dealing with this same "doneness".

http://www.BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56145.0

http://www.BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56073.0

http://www.BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56014.0

It's a shame that he chose to cave so close to a very meaningful (and apparently hopeful) court date on Monday.  He needed to stick to the current schedule without deviation and his cave could be construed as his not being serious about the other situations.

You know, Mr. M, on the one hand I agree, he should have pushed as hard as he can but consider what that means because we have been there, done that.

It is one thing when the mom denies visitation and the kid desperately wants to be there.  We have called the cops and taken them over with success.  It is another matter WHEN THE CHILD is saying no.  When that happens, no amount of civil paperwork is going to induce those cops to walk into the home and extract the child for your benefit. It just doesn't work that way.

That is why I think that herc did the best he could.  YOu know me friend, I hate giving up and we will battle to the end but this one was a losing battle from the get go once psycho mommy dangled the fun egg hunt in the back yard.  Nutjobs all of them.

HG

[Rose]

First, ((hugs)).  It is a difficult position we are in, watching our DH's make decisions about the exBPD and the skids.  I've been doing it for 7 years, and it's still hard to watch.  On top of it, we have our own expectations of what we want, and when they are in the hands of other individuals, it is tough.  Please take into consideration:

1) Please try and recognize that this is NOT your fight to have.  The relationship that your DH has with your skids is his own -- good, bad, distant, close.  It is what he builds with them that count.  Once we give ourselves permission to understand this, I often feel a mound of the stress go off my shoulders.
2) Recognize that holiday weeks are TOUGH with exBPD AND for our spouses.  Where you might be willing to fight this battle this week, your DH may not be.  Next year, he might be willing to fight the battle, and you may not be.  This is one holiday in a string of ones to come, even when the skids are adults.
3) It helped me to recognize the ebb-n-flows of this life.  I've found great solice in understanding that this too, shall pass.  If we end up getting sucked up into the drama-filled void of this life, we lose more.
4) Look at this weekend as an opportunity.  An opportunity for what?  Perhaps to spend the holiday with your DH.  Perhaps to reflect on the matter that you really care for the skids, and isn't that a good thing in itself?  An opportunity to say to yourself, "I feel like I did the right thing by being pyschologically able to invite the skids into our life, to want to share Easter with them --- even though that isn't the option being presented this weekend."
5) Set expectations accordingly.  I've found that I've had to totally retrain myself when it comes to expectations --- there are too many dependent variables at play with this dynamic to assure ourselves of any reasonable outcome.  I find that for holidays, I say to myself: well, if we see them, that would be great.  If not, we'll celebrate another day.  (Note: to this day, we have yet to spend a holiday with the skids, except Thanksgiving (for a couple of hours each year), and 4th of July.  We never get Easter, Christmas, etc.  Instead, we opt to celebrate the day before / after, as time after time our expectations would get blown out of the water because of exBPD.)

I'm so sorry you're going through this --- don't be too hard on yourself with this.  When we set ourselves up with expectations, and they get trampled on, it's always a hard fall down.

[Mr. M]

You know, Mr. M, on the one hand I agree, he should have pushed as hard as he can but consider what that means because we have been there, done that.

It is one thing when the mom denies visitation and the kid desperately wants to be there.  We have called the cops and taken them over with success.  It is another matter WHEN THE CHILD is saying no.  When that happens, no amount of civil paperwork is going to induce those cops to walk into the home and extract the child for your benefit. It just doesn't work that way.

That is why I think that herc did the best he could.  YOu know me friend, I hate giving up and we will battle to the end but this one was a losing battle from the get go once psycho mommy dangled the fun egg hunt in the back yard.  Nutjobs all of them.

HG

You know I completely understand what you're saying.  My point is that he could have "not agreed" to this situation for the purpose of preparing further for Monday.  Premeditated?  To a point.  Clearly, he wants the child for his weekend.  I didn't mean to imply that he should do whatever it takes to have them, just to not agree to it, be sure to have the disagreement documented, and then let it run its course (not have the child).

I have a habit (sometimes to a fault) of doing/not doing certain things with a court date approaching because I don't want things to get screwed up to my detriment in court.  You HAVE to operate, to some degree, that way these days.

[happygirl]

I absolutely agree, going into court you don't want to compromise your position in any manner and appear to not to care enough to push for visitation.  I am hopeful that by stating that mom has perpetrated custodial interference even up until this weekend, that he should be protected.

But as I write that . . . well who's to say what will happen.

I just am not sure what more he could have done short of calling the cops only to have the cops affirm the mother's right to be a custodial interferring wench.

Maybe others have had different experiences trying to extract a kid after they are the recipient of interference.  I would sure love to hear them, I may start another thread on the subject so as to not detract from this one.

Rural, how are you doing?

HG

HG

[garyw]

This may or may not make any sense but around holidays we would run into a bit more crisis stuff.

The dynamics of the other things you are going through are kinda out of my field involving marriage and children and all but if you can take (Easter) out of the equasion there will be that much less drama.

Just take it out of the picture as any factor at all and think of this as any other weeked that you deal with these things.

[ruralstressed]

Ok, I called him this morning.  Talked a while.  Would not tell him where I was.  Said I forgot my cell, have the laptop would be online, not for talking to him, but looking for support.  One of my old boyfriends, a good friend still, initiated im on yahoo.  I told him the situation.  He has known about it since the get go.  He was not as supportive as he has been in the past, just could not understand Herc's actions, and inquired about my daughter, changing an apparently uncomfortable subject.  

My sister came in thereafter (I am at her house) and proceded to tell me how I needed to stay out of it with him and his ex and his relationship with the kids.  Boy, she is a tuff one.  I am the oldest, but she is just 11 months younger and has always fought with me.  We argue but understand we disagree but love eachother.  She went back to work leaving me with her opinion which corresponds with OyVey while I cried heavily, you don't know the whole situation.  By the way, she is twice divorced from two fathers of her children that are little or no contact.

Well, after reading the comment about not looking good for court Monday, I called Herc again.  Said to call the lawyer.  Said I should not be telling him what he should be doing!  Asked him if he just wanted it to be me and him, which I would prefer, and see his kids like we did before we married, as his ex saw fit.  Told him to think about it, be honest with me and himself.  I came into this marriage thinking he wanted a sound home for getting grounds to fight his ex for his rights as the father.  He needed to be honest either way.  He said he was gonna call the lawyer.  I told him to know that I was not prepared to come back yet, I was deciding my happiness.  He needed to decide his.  (I know how badly he wants and needs his kids).  Before I got off the phone, I told him where I am.  

Yes, this is a holiday weekend.  I have been thru so many disappointing holidays in my life.  You have to understand I was widowed with a brand new baby at 25.  No one was there to share her first laugh, first steps, first words, all those mothers days, and other holidays.  I married when she was in first grade and soon learned about my second husband's disfunctional family.  His older brother ruined every holiday.  He was so jealous of the close relationship I had with my mother in law that his wife did not.  It eventually was one of the many reasons for our divorce after thirteen years of marriage.  I know how to create my own piece of happiness despite others.

His children want to see there father.  The are in fear of their mother.  Yes, they love their mom and defend her completely.  The son is only 9 and the daughter is 14.  She home schools them.  They do not know life otherwise.  They know mom will go off at dad.  They witnessed the pointing of a gun at their father in February.  They are trying to keep the peace at all costs.  I was raised by a ubp father.  I know the egg shells they are on.  I also see the peace and freedom from them when with their father.  The oldest can legally say no, I don't want to go, but the youngest has no legal choice until he is twelve.  The sheriff told us when he escorted us last month that we had to have the papers before he could let us get them.  Thus we got them, but suprise, she let them come without incident.  I too am worried about the consequences in court about the twisting actions by lawyers about the relinquish of his weekend.  That is why I am in crisis.  I have always calmed and made the most of our time when Murphys Law takes over.  I have quoted "this too shall pass" for years and years.  But Monday is court!

Thank you for your input.  I need more.  Keep it coming.  I have the rest of my life on the line here.  What to do?  Choices are always there.  I over analyze everything but for good purpose.  Strategic planning is a biproduct of being raised by a ubp parent.  I cannot and will not keep repeating the same mistakes.  I cannot handle watching others do the same.  As much as I love my husband, I cannot live my life around his ex wife.  I have tried for a year now.  It almost got me committed.  It has gotten me on nine different meds.  Life is too short to suffer.  

It is easier to regret things done, than things not done.  He needs to do what makes him happy.  Fighting for the kids, makes him happy until the kids are set by his ubpx in between.  He has the power to prevent that, but he says he does not have the control to not end up in jail for wanting to hurt his ex.  So much repressed anger.  

He will lay there and let himself die whether I am there or not without the fight for his kids.  That is what he does.  All I do is help him think without all the anger and emotion.  I help him know what a good father and wonderful person he is.  I help him find the support he needs.  Yes, oyvey, we are both in therapy!  I take good care of him so he does not have to worry about the little things.  I rub his tight muscles.  I spoil him with decadent desserts, playful wrestling, pleas to go for a ride on a nice day.  I get in the shower with him and scrub his back, neck, even his feet.  Yeah, I massage his feet.  He is a wonderful man that has never known what it means to receive.  He is a true longsuffering, giving and forgiving, hardworking, faithful man.  But I will not spend the rest of my life watching him give in to his crazy ubpx, not keeping boundaries for our protection and sanity!  He is risking not ony his and our happiness but his childrens happiness and future happiness.  His daughter is pale, insecure, and often sick.  His son is overly aggressive and dominanting.  They have no friends outside of their mom and the handful of members that attend their small "cult" church.  

We are talking about the rest of my life.  He knew what possible consequenses for his actions, yet still did it.  He wants to crawl in his safe spot, (remote, tv, bed, computer) and wait for life.  That is depression!  I have been there, and I refuse to go back.  When I woke up in a hospital with an apparent accidental overdose from a crisis depression situation, I changed my life!  Only I am responsible for my happiness.  Only I control me.  

[evien]

RS, as you can see from the replies, this THE Non-non struggle. To disengage with compassion. To let all the crap which rightfully belongs to the non stay on his plate, and not take spoonfuls for yourself. It is a REAL struggle for emotionally healthy people to simply watch children and partners get hurt and do nothing...except express compassion. Healthy people instinctively react positively against abuse, and normally that's a GOOD thing. However, within the context of stepfamily plus PD, its a nonproductive triangling. Everybody loses. For you- you struggle with frustration and disgust (and make no mistake, the disgust isn't only for the BPD; after watching your guy roll over and expose his belly 1 too many times, you get pretty disgusted with him, too). For the Non- he struggles with feeling powerless, misunderstood and manipulated...and with the often-unacknowledged understanding that he is contributing to the drama. For the kid- not only do they struggle with the overt abuse from the BPD, they have to live in the chaos of the perpetual hostility between their parents...and now their stepparents. You can CHANGE at least a little piece of each "sides" struggle by doing ONE thing...stepping away. By that one action, you lessen your own frustration, you allow your partner to feel less misunderstood and frustrated (because part of his struggle is with YOU, when you are in the middle of this), and you give the kid at least 1 adult in his life that he can trust to NOT participate in the hostility.


These are not trivial considerations. Being the one who sees clearly and remains cool-headed and unemotional is a very powerful position.

Look for a stepmom or stepfamily support group in your area, that can help you keep you focused on staying out of the drama, which is hard to do when you are in the middle of massive hostility and disorder. If there are no SF groups around, try Alanon. I know, I know, its about something else completey, but they DO compassionate disengagement. I'm at work right now, and all I have to do is look at my corkboard above my desk: "Detachment allows us to let go of our obssession with another's behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives." Sounds better than what ya got now, eh?

Evien

[MoGlo]

Rural,  I'm gonna tell you some things you may not like so feel free to take them for what they're worth.  I'm not here to argue about it, but you've asked what people think and I will tell you.  I was a child in just such a situation as you describe, as well as having watched my brother and his wife battle a very similar ex for 14 years now. 

Honestly, what you are describing is not a "crisis" - it's an incident, probably one of many you have faced and will likely face in the future.  It's only a crisis as long as you allow it to be.  Your husband made a decision with which you do not agree, you left presumably so you can try and work your way through your feelings.  It sounds like you're spinning like a top over something that you can do nothing about.  Maybe that's WHY you are spinning, because there is not one thing you can do.  So you're lashing out against the one person already the most hurt in the situation: your husband.

You have some decisions to make but they don't have to be made right this moment.  Think about this: The younger child is nine years old - you have a MINIMUM of nine more years of this kind of stuff, and that's not taking into consideration holidays, school breaks, special events, etc. once he leaves home and eventually has a family of his own.  It's not going to stop any time soon, and actually may never stop.  What you CAN do is stop yourself and look at your reactions, and think seriously about what you can do to change the future.

You are either committed to this man and this marriage come what may or you are not.  It's your choice.  No one can make it for you.  I understand your frustrations and disappointment but step outside it if you can and look at the others involved.  Your husband's children have called and said they don't want to come this weekend; he's disappointed not only that they aren't coming but that they called and told him so.  That has to hurt, deeply. 

Sure, odds are it was all instigated by their mother but they live with her, she is the center of their worlds.  Is it really fair to beat him up over it, something he felt he had to do for his children?  What purpose does it serve to verbally lash him over this or make him feel worse than he already does?  What about being supportive and setting aside your own emotions to help him deal with his hurt?  They are his children!

Yes, this is your life we're talking about but remember yours is not the only one involved.  If you are unwilling or unable to see the rest of the people involved maybe you do have some decisions to make.

[emminencefront]

Rural,

Sorry you're having such a hard time right now with this.

I don't have advice; it's more of a question...

I can't tell if you're upset because your husband "caved", or because you're concerned for his kids, or because certain activities were planned for Easter weekend and now those plans won't come to fruition.  Or all three, perhaps. 

Can you say what made you get up and leave? 

EF

[ruralstressed]

Herc and I did the premarriage counseling thing through the preacher that married us.  We had to answer privately a series of questions determining our compatibility.  We were assured it was not to tell us if we should be together or not but to note our personality traits to help us better understand eachother, thus our marriage.  Well, we each came back with personalities in the rare percentage.  We were not similar, but had similarities.  The reason I say this is because, due to our rare personalities, we do not see the world as the average person sees it.  

I am the rarest of personality.  I feel everything.  My compassion, sympathy and empathy are extreme.  It is the way God made me.  The test last summer confirmed what I have been told all my life.  My mother used to comfort me saying, "No one else notices the things you do."  My grandmother said I had a gift like an angel.  Bless her for that!  I have been told I am too tender, thus tenderhearted.  Counseling for years off and on for various issues since I was widowed in 1985 have never given me the ability to turn off my emotional connection to others.  I am known for my unconditional love.  I tried to call his ubpx while ago to offer understanding, my voice was gentle, my words were accepting, I wished to implore that I am no threat to her.  She has never spoken to me that long before.  I asked what I could do and she charged me with not accepting her beliefs.  I let her know that when I was widowed at 25, my pentecostal mother in law helped me raise my daughter.  I told her she has never spoken to me before to find out about me.  (I am not welcome at the childrens activities with my DH.) She ended the conversation shockingly abruptly saying she was late for a hair appointment.  

Do you understand?  I want so much to not be so emotional.  I have read Emotions Annonymous, looked for groups, been counseled, but alas, that is who I am.  I want others to be happy above my own happiness.  I am a passionate giver.  Even after all has been taken from me in the past several times by those I loved and trusted, I still love and give to them.  Counseling did help me to learn to protect myself.  I did learn tough love with my daughter.  I know how to let others suffer the consequences of their actions.  BUT... I cannot watch others suffer without feeling it deep in my soul.  I must remove myself or die of pain.

I continue to go to counseling.  I am compartmentalizing the issues overwhelming me.  I am analyzing my choices.  Every day I gauge my strengths and weaknesses.  I am making adjustments to cope with changes.  I always say "Everything changes, nothing stays the same", and "This too shall pass".  

This is very difficult for me.  Knowing that I still face years and years of repeated conflict with his ubpx does not help.  Am I strong enough?  Are he and I capable of remaining as bonded as we are as time and tests weather us into old age?  Most of all, right now, I need to know that he is capable.  The repression, the displacement, the depression, the hopelessness is not easy to witness repeatedly on the person you share your life with on a daily basis.

He is in counseling, but he is a quiet man.  I have begun seeing the same counselor seperately.  Perhaps my open book brutal honesty will shed just as much light on what I see in him as what is going on with me.  That is not my purpose, I see counseling selfishly.  I desperately want to regain my health both physically and emotionally no matter the cost.  There are so many more issues at stake here than his ex and kids.  

He married me with the hopes of gaining his rights as their father.  I came into this marriage prepared for stepkids, weekend kids, or no kids.  I do not call myself their stepmother.  They are my husbands children.  They have a mother.  I am not their mother.  

I consider myself their friend, like I did all the years I was a Girl Scout leader, Sunday School Teacher and Band Chaperone.  I am making our house a safe stress free place for us and the kids to enjoy eachother.  Last weekend, I was not able to be with him and the kids.  I try to not let his ex hear, smell or see and evidence of me to avoid setting her off.  All I do is advise him when he needs help, emotionally, physically, legally, financially, spiritually or however.  I help him find the resources he needs to get to his goals.  

If I have invested myself too much, it is because I love this man, and his kids.  I want them all to be happy and do whatever I can to bring a smile.  That is about it.

[ruralstressed]

Make this clear about why I walked.

First off, just the past two weeks, we got a sheriff escort due to seriousness of visitiation issue, got court papers required by sheriff, got court date filed for contempt charges on visitation, (threat of jail for her), got them without incident last weekend, court is Monday and now of all times... after all this... he backs down!  We have all we need to enforce it, he has the right to participate is the kids activities, he has the documents, the court orders, and knowing she was manipulating things, he relinquished!

He caught me before I could sneak out.  He wanted me to talk to him.  I quietly and calmly tried but he became defensive.  He told me he would do just fine without me in a way that said for me to leave.  So I left.  He watched me put on my jeans, get my coat, purse and leave.

I call it a time out.  I had to remove myself from the situation to get a better perspective. 

[JoannaK]

Rural, it's clear that you do need some time away from him and the whole situation.  You can't force him to do anything.  If he wants to fold, he folds.  Nothing you can do about it.  Is it hard on you?  Yep.  Is it hard on him?  Yep.  Is it fair to the kids?  Probably not.

But there is nothing you can do about it.  Stay away for a day or two, try to avoid talking to him for a day or two...  Not out of anger, but because you do need to clear your head.  You both deserve some time apart...  deserve... to let things cool off.

[MoGlo]

And when all else fails:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

I have it on my desk here at work (as does the doctor on his) and on my bedroom wall at home.  It's the first thing I read in the morning and the last thing I read at night, always there to remind me that I can really only control myself.

[blondie]

Rural,
I understand you are hurting and disappointed. I'm sure he is even more disappointed and upset with his children not being with him for Easter and your leaving for a while.

All I do is advise him when he needs help, emotionally, physically, legally, financially, spiritually or however.  I help him find the resources he needs to get to his goals.  

If I have invested myself too much, it is because I love this man, and his kids.  I want them all to be happy and do whatever I can to bring a smile.  That is about it.

If, IF you truly mean this from the bottom of your heart, they are your words, and I assume you intend to live up to them for him, for the two of you, for the good of you both.

Help him through this weekend.
Love him enough to support his decision. After all they are HIS children and his decision to make.
He is your husband, and you love him.
Then, support him, with love.

Pat

[Peace4us]

MoGlow

Me too about the Serenity Prayer.
Simple and yet so poignant

Peace

[ruralstressed]

I am with my opposite personality sister and her two teenage daughters that call me their favorite aunt.  I have no responsibilities until tomorrow night when I must report my work cases closed to my lead.  Herc if off work tomorrow.  He knows where I am and why.  This is the second night I will be gone.  Today was good for me.  I have not seen my sister since July. 

I do not have my cell phone with me, just the lap top.  Herc will get off work and deal with me not being home yet tonight.  That is the consequences of his actions, not mine.  He says one thing then does another.  He had everything lined up to force his visitation rights, but didn't.  He told me that Easter has never been important to him.  To me it was just another chance to show the children how much we love and miss them.  Easter has nothing to do with it.  It could have been any weekend.  It just happenned to be the weekend before his initiated contempt of court charges against his ex on Monday.  He set it all up to force visitation and folded.  The rug was pulled out from under me, yeah.  He did it for his kids, yeah.  She won, yeah.  That is not the point.  Does he want his kids or not?  What is he willing do to for that goal?  Or what is he going to give up?  Tell me one thing then do another?  What am I suppose to do?  I understand about the kids calling.  She has them call all the time.  When they were going to have company one weekend and the kids told him, he fought.  Lost, but he fought.  When his daughter called because they were supposedly sick, he fought.  He lost, but he fought.  Each and every weekend since the court order in January, he has fought to see his kids.  The sheriff escorted us, then last weekend, he got them without incident.  Now he has quit the fight, just as we have won.  We have everything we need, and he caved.  Why?  Court is Monday!  Does he want to fight for his kids or not?  I need to know. 

He and I have made it through lots of things because of her.  We grow stronger and closer each time we conquer each mountain.  I will go home when I am ready and not before. 

I have recited and displayed the serenity prayer since 2003.  I used to have the card in my purse.  It is posted in my kitchen.

I called his ex today.  I gently let her know that I am not causing her problems.  Herc married me to provide a good home so he could fight her for his rights as the father.  I told her how I was widowed at 25 and my pentecostal mother in law helped me raise my daughter.  She has never tried to get to know me.  She commented that she was "not trying to take [Herc] from me".  Did you hear what she said?  She is married to the man she ran off with six years ago. The conversation ended when she said they were late for a hair appointment and hung up. 

Yeah, I should not have called.  It can come back on me.  I am always ready to deal with any consequences for my actions.

Tomorrow I will deal with another day.  But not until tomorrow.  Herc has his demons, and I have mine.  I am calmer.  I am more rational.  I am still not sympathetic for his loss this weekend.  It was his choice.  I cannot have an Easter without kids.  Mine is in Wisconsin.   Maybe God is telling me to find a church home.  Maybe God is telling me something else? 

With the activity here of neices and my sister, I have not had time to meditate and listen.
Tomorrow is another day, another chance to pay attention and learn.

[happygirl]

Rural, you seem a little calmer and that is a good thing.

Just a couple of points that you may want to consider.

It feels to me like herc is being punished because he did not do as you asked.  He didn't follow through, he didn't have the fight that you were seeking, he didn't push the issue the way that you wanted.

I have been there rural, wanting Walt to say this, do that and furious when an opportunity slipped through his fingers after all the work that I had been doing to help him.  I know how maddening it is.

One of the lessons that has been mine to learn is that he has instincts too.  He has beliefs and fears.  Not all of his non traits are bad.  some of them are great, his ability to care, his parenting, his love for me.  they are all wonderful traits.  After all those years with a BPD, it is my desire to remind him of those great qualities because for so many years he was degraded.

I have spent years strategizing, thinking, posting, learning, documenting, and going to court all in an effort to gain some rights for my husband.  We talk about it, read about it, plot about it and sometimes we dream about it.  It is that important to us.

But we also found, at times, that it consumed us.  I found my anger at fever pitch when he was not doing the things that I thought he should do. He was frustrated at my micromanagement of his situation.  Sadly, I was often right in my predictions and analysis but over time I saw that there was a cost to this behavior.

I wrapped it all up pretty in the package of just wanting to make him happy, get his son, help destroy her.  All it was destroying was us.  For about six months, I was so angry all the time but I could'nt see it.

Rural, EF asked you to state why you left.  I can't see any reason.  I know you state you are thinking over your marriage but all I am seeing here is anger that he didn't get the sheriff to get the kids.  Anger that you won't have a holiday with kids.

Each and every weekend since the court order in January, he has fought to see his kids

My goodness, that is a lot of energy.  Have you considered that precisely because the court date is Monday that he will let them decide there?  That he just can't do it one more weekend?

You profess to love this man, that he is a great person, a good father.  Your job, when you get married is not to fight to get his kids back. Your job is as a mate to your spouse, a helpmate.  It is his job and right to fight this how he wants.  It is your job to give him guidance, support and ultimately understanding even in light of how it affects you.

It would be one thing if he were not tackling anything, he is, maybe due to your insistence but the man is making an attempt and an effort.  He is going to court, he has worked to keep contact, he has utilized law enforcement.

You have mentioned that his physical health is not good.  Jeez, I can see why as this is an incredible amount of stress for him and for you.

I am still not sympathetic for his loss this weekend.  It was his choice.  I cannot have an Easter without kids.

I find this to be a tragic line of thinking.  Quite frankly, it was not his choice.  His BPD ex wife has participated in a system of parental alienation and is winning.  His only choice has been how he wants to survive this and as such should be respected.  It doesn't have to be liked but it does need to be respected.

HOnestly, rural, how much of this has to do with your expectation of a holiday?  You seem to place a high price on holidays, times with kids, creating fun times, etc.  Is there a possibility that your disappointment is extreme because of your holiday expectations?  I certainly understand being peeved at the loss of time, the expense and the upheaval but is the response logical for the circumstances.

Rural, this is tough talk, I know.  I know the frustration and need to have safety and security.  It is a tough life.  I can only give you my perspective.  There is nothing that would all ow me to put anything between Walt and I, our relationship is too important and I want it to be solid for the time when we do get his son.  The way I figure it, the best way to win his son back is to make the most solid marriage that I can and to support him as best I can.

You have come here to a message board asking for validatation and advice.  I affirm your right to be frustrated and disappointed.  It is our lot as a secondary non.  The above is my best advice for handling the situation.

I hope I have not caused offense but I cannot sit quietly by having walked your path already.

HG

[Her Mama]

I called his ex today.  I gently let her know that I am not causing her problems.  Herc married me to provide a good home so he could fight her for his rights as the father.  I told her how I was widowed at 25 and my pentecostal mother in law helped me raise my daughter.  She has never tried to get to know me.  She commented that she was "not trying to take [Herc] from me".  Did you hear what she said?  She is married to the man she ran off with six years ago. The conversation ended when she said they were late for a hair appointment and hung up. 

I am calmer.  I am more rational.  I am still not sympathetic for his loss this weekend.  It was his choice. 

Why would you do this?  What are you trying to do here?  You reveal to her why you say you married him.  Are you trying to "punish" this man further because he hasn't come running after you?  I don't see calm and rational.  I see motives of punishment by revenge.  How exactly stable is this "loving and wonderful" home that you are providing for Herc and his children so he can have more access to his children if you punish and betray your husband like this?  Is this going to be your plan of action for whenever he fails to meet your seemingly endless expectations of him?  Doesn't sound a bit like love to me when you say "I am still not sympathetic for his loss this weekend".  Doesn't sound at all like a person I would consider as having empathy, compassion, or the proclivity for tenderheartedness. 

[spinning]

rural,
You have received a lot of valuable input here. You have to decide what is best for you and for your marriage. My wish for you is that your time away will help you clarify what it is you want exactly. Can you explain that to us? From your posts, I am still not sure why you left Herc except that he didn't do what you wanted him to regarding his children and the family you are a part of. Though I completely understand that his choices affect you as well, they are still his choices to make. (And I certainly do not understand what you expected to gain from calling his ex!)

We can only control ourselves, not anyone else. We can change what we present for someone else to respond to, that's all. Seems this ball is in your court.

I have to agree with happygirl:

HOnestly, rural, how much of this has to do with your expectation of a holiday?  You seem to place a high price on holidays, times with kids, creating fun times, etc.  Is there a possibility that your disappointment is extreme because of your holiday expectations?  I certainly understand being peeved at the loss of time, the expense and the upheaval but is the response logical for the circumstances

Why can't you have the holiday without the kids? I understand expectations, have learned the hard way that much of what I was dealing with at times was about MY expectations of what *should* be. And the disappointment and anger that comes when they are not met. Should is a rotten word.

If I have learned anything along this relationship, it is that it is important that we celebrate things. Not when we celebrate them, just that we do celebrate, as a family, whenever we are together. We hardly ever have holidays and birthdays when they are on the calendar. That doesn't stop our celebrations, though. Our extended families have also learned this. Last weekend we celebrated Easter and Passover, both were not yet here on the calendar, because that was when SD could and would be with us to see everyone and join the family celebrations.

This is because we are a family with a child of divorce, not just because there is a mentally ill woman in the picture (which of course adds immensely to the changes). My SD will ALWAYS be missing someone, she will always not be at something. As long as we embrace the time we do have with my SD, no matter how little, it is a celebration and SD knows she is avaluable part of it and the family.

Now he has quit the fight, just as we have won.  We have everything we need, and he caved.  Why?  Court is Monday!  Does he want to fight for his kids or not?  I need to know. 

Have you asked Herc this? He is the only one who can answer these questions. As you surely already are aware, communication is the cornerstone of any relationship.

IMHO, you need to decide why you married Herc, and what you want from your marriage. Also what you are willing to give to him and to it. You said a couple times that you entered this marriage to help him with his fight for his children. Hopefully that is not your only focus. Maybe you could try to shift your focus back to your relationship and away from actions.

I hope you can find some peace this weekend, Easter or not. It sounds to me like clarification of what you want, and then a plan to find it, is key.

[ruralstressed]

Ok, I have not re-read all the things I said yesterday, but I have read since my post last night. 
Herc and I have talked in great length on the phone last night and this morning. 
He is off work today.  Guess what, she is letting him have the kids until Saturday afternoon.
Yeah, and I am not there. 

I am not sure what all I said and did yesterday.  It is all so mixed up inside my head.
I don't know really why I called his exwife, honestly.  I just want so to be friends.  She has never even spoken to me but twice in the two years he and I have been together.  I am a lot like her, over protective mother, strong christian (not as devout as her), crafty, earthy, etc.  I felt the need to call.  I conveyed on this board my interpretation of how the conversation went.  It was actually a very calm and rather nice exchange of words.  Maybe it is my lack of sleep, or all the medications the doctor has me on, I don't know.  My sister did ask me if I was drunk when I awoke her at 4am wanting to stay with her.  I got up yesterday before she took my neice to school at 8am.  Now here I am again.  At least I got to sleep by midnight, I think. 

Yeah, I have always done the holidays big.  My own daughter said I was a "too much" type.  I spoil.  I love to spoil.  As a Girl Scout leader we had lots of fun, whatever the girls wanted to do.  As a wife, I indulge my husband with whatever makes him smile.  As a cashier, I greet each customer, hoping to leave them with a smile.  I do the Census, and I am very good at it.  It is who I am. 

There are more issues going on with Herc than I let on. 

I was disappointed in the man I married.  He says one thing, then does another.  It scares me to realize he knows and plans what it takes but then he could not follow through.  He has to learn to make her accountable for her actions or she will just keep doing the same things.  I know she will continue to find new ways to cause chaos, but I hear and see how he is not setting the boundaries after I hear him rant, rave, plot, plan, set up and vent all his wants.  If he cannot stand up to her, it will never end.  Can I handle that?  If he doesn't get his kids, he will crawl in bed, lethargic, tv remote in one hand, laptop computer at the other.  Can I handle that?  The answer is no to both, so what am I suppose to do?  I have told him repeatedly how difficult it is most times to get him to smile.  This has been ongoing since we met.  Staying in bed, making love, laying around watching tv, that is all good, but not as a lifestyle.  That is depression.  He goes to a counselor since the holiday.  Was every week, but now it is every two weeks.  I go every week. 

Each and every time we get the kids we do something special.  I had blow bubbles, kites, board games, videos, dvds, and more last time.  The time before I had all their Valentines gifts arranged nicely on their pillows but they didn't come.  I didn't lose it then.  This was different.  It was not the big event.  It was his failure to follow through, his choice.

He said, let the court do it.  So, we are gonna run and dish out money over and over for lawyer, legal fees, each and every time?  I understand he is tired of it all.  He sees the strain it is having on me.  But I have been there, each and every time, making the most of whatever he gets.  Well, like you said, it is his place, not mine.  I could not do it this time.  I could not make the most of whatever he got. 

He does not want to go to church with me.  He does not want to work in the yard with me.  His motorcylce is giving him stress.  It needs work, but he just moans and groans about it.  He knows how to take and engine apart and put it back together.  He is a mechanic. 

He comes home, sits down on the bed, gets the tv remote and turns on the computer.  Do you know how long he can sit and play spider solitaire?  We went to Louisville, Ky the third week of March for an overnight mini vacation.  The midsouth truck show was there.  He also took his motorcycle radio back to the manufacturer personally to have it repaired.  At the hotel, he watched tv, wanted to sleep until time for the NCAA TN game, then snapped at me because I didn't have the channel on the game when I woke him up for it.  I got up and laid down on the couch.  He brought me a pillow and blanket when he got ready to go to sleep.  The next day, we woke up, went to the truck show until closing, then I drove us home because he had to be at work the next morning.

He brought me roses this week for no reason.  Guess because I don't ask anything from him.  I love him just the way he is.  I endure his crazy life because I love him.  I rub his aching muscles.  I make love to him with a passion.  I enjoy the ball games, the truck shows, riding motorcycles, all the things he does too.  I love and miss his kids, too. 

[Mr. M]

Wow, what a shame.  This situation has taken a decidedly sadder turn.   

[Oy-vey!]

RS,

I hope you are getting help for yourself that is constructive.  You remind me of my mother who was a victim of her own actions - she did more than anyone would have or should have done for others and would get angry when they didn't appreciate it enough.  This is passive aggressive behavior.  It is not healthy.

You also shared with us that you have some special kind of personality and that is why you do the things you do.  Well, I will venture to say that alcholics or people addicted to drugs have a special kind of personality - but there are many of them that get help and work on changing their behaviors.

Is there a reason you cannot work on yourself so that you are a healthier and ultimately a happier person?  You expect a lot from others.  You give a lot more than you get in return.  And you are not a happy person.

I hope you are able to find some peace at some point of your life.

[ruralstressed]

Ok, this is why I don't like the way you "experience" long time board members treat new members that are not a "wise". 

OyVey, I have been in counseling since I was widowed in 1985.  I am not passive aggressive.  I am Post Tramatic Stress Disorder.  Symptom of being raised by a UBPD Father.  I am to giving, guilt ridden, tender, emotional, but never have I ever been upset because someone didn't appreciate what all I do!  I have difficulty handling stress, the fight or flight syndrome!  Counselors have told me that I function with amazing clarity and intelligence best when I am angry.  I do not become angry often.  But I do get sad alot.  Life is suppose to be fair for all/others.  My life has been so hard that I have learned to look for the smile in every moment and milk it for all that it is worth. 

I know your type.  I was raised in the suburbs of Chicago.  My parents were members of the Country Club.  Do not project your judgements on others!  Do you want me to quote scripture, I can...

[Oy-vey!]

RS,

I too grew up in the country club.  I too have been in therapy since the early 80s.  And I have experienced more traumatic grief than you will ever know about.  I'm no more special than you, nor you than me.  Where in the suburbs of Chicago did you grow up? I'm quite familiar with them all from the north side and up.

You have actually made my point - by your statement that you are sad a lot.  I hope you are able to find happiness in your life.

Good luck.

[Gen]

Wow, rural, I am new here too, and I think you were unjustifiably harsh to Oy-vey.  One of the possibilities of posting your issues and problems on an internet message board is that you are going to hear things you maybe don't want to hear.  It seems to me that people here have taken the time to try to help you with the very stressful issues going on in your life right now.  Many of these responses have come under the category of "constructive criticism", but IMHO, I don't think anyone was out of line except you in your harsh response. 

I wish you the best in your struggles, but if all you want is people to tell you what you want to hear, it seems to me you are going to be disappointed here, as well as in life.  Good luck.

[aames]

Let's step back before this escalates, shall we?

Rural,

Now the tone and examples Oy used may have been more harsh than you would like - and I do see how that would upset and trigger you.   

Oy you may want to back off this thread for the time being; Rural is feeling a harshness right now that won't allow her to hear your words.

Rural - I'm going to ask that if you feel under attack or upset by another poster's words that you take a step back - don't engage that poster or escalate the situation with counter-attacks.    You always have the option to contact any moderator on the board and report the situation. 

[MoGlo]

Ruralstressed ~

Apparently you either misunderstood or neglected to read Aames' post to you above, particularly this part:

Rural - I'm going to ask that if you feel under attack or upset by another poster's words that you take a step back - don't engage that poster or escalate the situation with counter-attacks.    You always have the option to contact any moderator on the board and report the situation. 

Again, do not make counterattacks when you do not agree with someone.  We do not condone personal attacks and name calling on this message board and this is your last warning.  Please, take a big step back and stop attacking those who are trying to provide input as you requested.

[aames]

Ruralstressed:

Your second reply to Oy has been removed from this thread as it was flaming and inappropriate.   It was in direct defiance of what I specifically asked you NOT to do in the post above.

From the Guidelines:

Divisive or Abusive Exchanges: All members should feel safe in their expressions; we are all here to heal from abuse. Please keep in mind that the membership is comprised of diverse experiences and backgrounds; this is a great strength of our community. Debate is healthy discourse when conducted in a respectful, and tolerant manner. Members shall not engage in divisive or abusive exchanges or be judgemental of other members. If a member has divisive or abusive behavior directed toward them, they shall not engage it, but rather try to defuse the situation, or ignore the behavior, or contact a moderator for assistance. Members shall not respond to an abusive exchange in kind. All members should feel safe in there expressions; we are all here to heal from abuse.

RS: you agreed to abide by the guidelines when your membership was reinstated.  Your reinstatement is, at this point, less than 48 hours old.  Please review the guidelines in their entirety before posting again.

Aames

[ruralstressed]

Yes I felt attacked.  She used the words unhealthy, addicted, passive aggressive.  She claimed to know my type.

I did not realize a moderator had posted when the message came up when I just posted again.

I am not looking for what I want to hear, quite the contrary, I want to hear opposite.  I need the opposing views to fully analyze the pros and cons.  Judging is another thing.  Don't tell me who I am, what I am doing out of context of the entire picture of the issues influencing my actions you do not know about.  That is judging.  I still have not told all the things pressing upon my life.  You do not know me, there for you cannot judge me.  I do not know you, I only weigh your comments.  I will feel the need to explain myself when misjudged.  



I am a stranger.  OyVey was aggressive.  She was judgemental and accusing.  I told my sister what OyVey wrote.  She laughed so hard.  She told me not to respond and I should not have.  I should just let everyone get to know me as my personality unfolds with time.  I replied in like fashion as she had replied to me, to get her to feel how she made me feel.  I judged her.  Suddenly she wants to know which suburb I am from?  She wants to know me better?  Her initial reply did not suggest she wanted to know me.

Because this is text, I feel the need to define myself, now, like posting my profile on yahoo.  My personals ad years ago had a personality test.  All the personals seem to give you personality questions.  I have even been on Eharmony prior to meeting Herc.  Herc and I took personality tests as part of our premarriage counseling.  

I am a feeler, passionate giver.  Each and every test comes back like that.  I do not expect anything in return.  I do want respect.  I don't always get it, and I usually return disrespect with a reproach.  Then I avoid or remove myself from the disrespectful atmosphere.  I have been known to return comment when a strange teenager in the mall acts disrespectful.  I just consider it being responsible for your actions.  Show respect, get respect.  Show disrepect, get disrespect instead I chose to chastize.

It is the law of nature.  It is how atoms work.  It is the old saying...
For every action, there is a reaction.
Wasn't that Einstien?

Please forgive me for my harsh words at OyVey.  I have read this past month her replies to various threads and know her popularity.  I am the outsider.  I am the stranger.  

If you ban me, I am ready.  I probably won't be online for a while anyway.  You allowed the harsh provoking words.  I do not accept her being allowed to speak to me like that. 

I have three properties that need mowing.  I wish to visit my daughter in Milwaukee.  I have a work deadline next weekend.  Court Monday.  Possible child custody if the judge makes good on his words to jail his ubpx for interference.  And I think I am gonna go down to the lake and just sit by the water for a while.  

Time to quit listening to everyone else and listen to God.  He is in my heart and I need to listen without all this noise.  I have been insulted.  I know how to walk away.  I usually give "the look" of I beg your pardon first. 

Each and every opposing comment has been appreciated.  I had Herc sign on last night and read them all as well.  My sister could care less, she is a college graduate nurse, president at one time of her professional society, psyc ward at her local hospital.  She just laughed as I said about the passive aggressive comment. 

Let me just end this thread here, now, with... I am truly sorry for stepping across the line.

[aames]

At the thread author's request - we'll go ahead and lock this one up.