Weird New Symptom

[Think About It...]

I am still reading "Walking on Eggshells" and it may have truly saved me from a psycho rage, thank you!

My husband has never overtly expressed fears of my leaving him but recently was visibly upset as I had LEFT THE YARD. He sounded like a little boy (so far only one counseling appt) and said he couldn't find me yet when I asked, did not bother to look for me either (I within visible range).

Usually his response to conflict is to threaten divorce and my response to the threat is "no problem, let's do".

He has become less openly raging in the past few years and WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY more subtle and dishonest/manipulative. The expression of fear of not finding seems like fear of abandonment (my car was in the driveway btw).

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Joan

[Joan]

I am still reading "Walking on Eggshells" and it may have truly saved me from a psycho rage, thank you!

My husband has never overtly expressed fears of my leaving him but recently was visibly upset as I had LEFT THE YARD. He sounded like a little boy (so far only one counseling appt) and said he couldn't find me yet when I asked, did not bother to look for me either (I within visible range).

Usually his response to conflict is to threaten divorce and my response to the threat is "no problem, let's do".

He has become less openly raging in the past few years and WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY more subtle and dishonest/manipulative. The expression of fear of not finding seems like fear of abandonment (my car was in the driveway btw).

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Joan

[Cyndi]

Hi Joan,
I got this kind of thing alot.  Heaven forbid I were to go somehwere without me telling him.
I got a three week silent treatment once because i went on a job interview WITHOUT HIM!

Honstly Joan, I would rather have the overt rages, than the silent treatments and manipultions.
He got VERY good at them

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[Mount Si]

It seems that the BPD tries to find ways that attack your center.  If you have developed a mechanism for dealing with the silent treatment, they learn to rage.  The most important thing to them when they are at their emptiest is to do whatever it takes to make you feel the misery they are feeling.  Interesting.

[Ave Marina]

It sounds like me the old "fear of abandonment" syndrome. Maybe Mom lost him in the dept. store when he was a kid. A lot of BP behavior, I believe, is fear based. My SO has said on several  occasions that his rages and anger are only brought about when he feels threatened. The only thing is, it doesn't take much to trip his trigger. I think he is threatened by just getting up in the morning. I also agree with Mt.Si. When my SO is raging at me, he goes for the jugglar. He will strike (verbally) where it will hurt the most.

Ave

[GawgaGirl]

Mt. Si 
Your post has something JUMPING out at me!  OMGosh!
I get the 'silent treatment' ... haven't really SEEN the rages.  Although there have been 'arguments' over petty BS from her, not me.  In fact, I call them HER arguments.  LOL   Cause I wasn't arguing. 
OK... but I HATE the silent treatment, being 'shut out'.  I'd MUCH rather talk through the issues.  Well, I am beginning to believe that since 'that works' with me ... this MIGHT be why I have not really seen the rages?


Joan ~ I have not experienced that type of abandonment issue.  However, there is a LONG list of other 'issues'.  I can't imagine being out of sight in the yard and that happening.  Oh dear!

[Cyndi]

I think most BPD are 'emotionally lazy"

they will do what they know works on you.  If it no longer has an effect, they will step it up.

If that doesn't work, they just dump you and move on to the next.

Hey, if you continue to play the game, why should they change?

[elphaba]

Not new...same old fear of abandonment...just amplified...it is EXACTLY like a little kid who loses sight of his mommy in the store for a moment and starts to panic...remember, they are stuck in perpetual childhood...

Cyndi - you didn't take him on your job interview...you mean, mean lady...

Oh the silent treatment... I hated that, but, by the end I actually liked it, it meant quiet for a day or so (depending on the severity of "my offense") no rages, no screaming, nothing getting thrown across the room...just silence...

Mtsi - this cuts to the core of things...

when they are at their emptiest is to do whatever it takes to make you feel the misery they are feeling.

wow...the experiences are all so similar, never ceases to amaze me...

[garyw]

True fear of abandonment is a strange one to get your mind around and really understand it. As most if not all the critera are fear based so is this one.

I used to have to fly a lot in and out of the country on photo assignments. One of the norms was that she would leave me before the trip. The other was right before walking up the ramp she would hand me a little figure like a doll. A small one that would fit in my pocket and she would say, "Put this in your pocket because it is me and don't ever take it out till you get back."

not sure if that was a mix of abandonment fears and object constancy or what...but she was dead serious..I do know that

[Joan]

Thanks for sharing your experience Gary. In looking at my OWN personality, I am not a clingy person nor do I care to be clung to. So to have wrap my mind around something like fear of abandonment is very difficult. Also, my parents essentially emotionally abandoned me all my life. I dealt with it by making my own life, friends, getting out as much as possible, staying out of trouble, etc. I stayed as low on the radar as I could until I was old enough to go to college.

So, while I find the concept confusing and the behavior just too much, I will have to try to understand for now. We did talk about it today and I told him I would not change my patterns of going out with the kids, visiting neighbors, etc. I suggested he take advantage of information readily at hand and look outside. If my car is there, I'm not far. Look into the neighbor's yard. It's likely I'm right there if I didn't take my car. Anytime I need to take the car I'm usually gone for more than just a few minutes so I make sure he knows where I'm going out of courtesy. Suddenly he is incapable or unwilling to put 2 and 2 together.

Joan

[turtle]

Hi Joan --

I remember packing for a business trip.  Every item I put IN the suitcase, x would take OUT!  That was cute for about a nanosecond, then it just pissed me off.  He had already made me late with some other nonsense and his antics of unpacking my things made me nearly miss my plane.  He ended up throwing a full blown fit just before I was supposed to leave - wouldn't give me my suitcase.   :

It was, and still is, very difficult for me to wrap my brain around the idea that he thought I was truly abandoning him and that he would never see me again. However, after dealing with that crap --- once I got on the plane --- I sure thought about abandoning him and honestly --- I wished I had -- things got so much worse after that.

Turtle

[Joan]

Hi Turtle,

It is so frustrating. Yes, I'd have pitched a fit myself if someone unpacked my stuff while I packed. Funny how my husband seems to be worried I'll abandon him but steadfastly refuses to communicate necessary information to me like kids behavior or if they are not feeling well and have told him and perhaps not me. I really cannot reconcile the split there.

I'll be working outside today, that will relax me and I'm gardening so it will be fun   Thanks for your reply and experience, I will keep that in mind as it appears his behavior is changing now that he's in therapy, so far for the worse though some of that is normal when getting therapy. Let's hope for a long summer and lots of gardening !

Hugs,
Joan

[IN4M]

Hi Joan,


Sounds like an old fear but in a different circumstance.

True fear of abandonment is a strange one to get your mind around and really understand it. As most if not all the criteria are fear based so is this one.

It can be strange because it changes with the scenery but I believe the fears are the same. Those of some sort of betrayal either because they are shameful or worthless  in the eyes of another for a bunch of reasons. Some of thse reasons everyone struggles with and then some are compounded by the past abuse they received. If they were abused as a child their gonna be abused again  this is their constant thinking and expectation.

Joan , as an example, your husband after not  not seeing  your car and couldn't find you  may have immediately started to think you were trying to get away from him cause you didn't want to be around him for what ever reason.  Having BPD is a big one yes?  Yes ! of course it is. I'm not saying you were doing this just in case your reading me wrong.  :P  His thinking then  could have developed into "you went out to meet your secret lover because he's so inadequate". Believing this he becomes enraged . His center is attacked so he appears to attack your center   as mountsai sugested,  because he's defending himself. He has done all the attacking.

i don't think BPD's are emotionally lazy . On the contrary they are flooded by concerns constantly and at work 24/7 just not in a very productive way . Destructive instead. I can believe they would want to isolate and turn off these thoughts in any way possible but when it comes to what's deep in the psyche  at times that's just difficult to do. they have these intrusive thoughts and can't turn them off . 

I think asking God to remove some of them is the only way out because its so so intangible to fix is so powerless to us humans.

Getting better for them is kind of  like an elephant trying to fly, but they can have a bit more success . I hope.

Sunny

[StressedinCleveland]

My wife used to show this very badly. From the minute I told her about an upcoming business trip, she would obsess about it, try to talk me out of it, try to negotiate the shortest possible number of minutes that I would be away even if it meant taking a late night flight with four connecting cities. She would express worries about the plane crashing every day for months. I had to call her before getting on the plane, as soon as it landed, and as soon as I got to the hotel. Then she would call the hotel several times a day even though I was never there because I was in meetings (this was before cell phones).

In thinking about it, I recognize how far she has come. On my last trip, when she called the hotel they erroneously told her I wasn't there and in fact never made a reservation! Instead of assuming I was having an affair or having a panic attack, she was able to wait until I got back to her.

I credit the 15 years of therapy and the daily dose of Clonipin (tranquilizer) on top of the antidepressant.

[IN4M]

Hi Joan,

I missed your third post.

Suddenly he is incapable or unwilling to put 2 and 2 together.

Could be a bit of both. Maybe incapable more of the time. If he's in therapy you may see an increase or escalation of behavior or thinking patterns or even new ones that have been buried. he could be making drama to avoid other stuff as well.

Oh boy what fun eh?

 This can be beneficial if he's looking at the behaviors or thinking patterns. He'll have a chance to see them as they are happening. But for you it won't be fun at all.

We did talk about it today and I told him I would not change my patterns of going out with the kids, visiting neighbors, etc. I suggested he take advantage of information readily at hand and look outside

Both of these are excellent. Not changing your behavior to make him more comfortable and to suggest he look outside the negative and look for the positives. There's usually 4 or five words or statements to contradict the one negative he's found and maybe making into a Steven King novel.

In thinking about it, I recognize how far she has come.

 Stressed, Hopefully it's the therapy and not the drugs. Yes that's quite a bit of progress for someone with BPD. You get the gold medal for the 15 years of  putting up with it.

Sunny

[Joan]

Yeah, this is NOT going to be fun. Funny, I have been by Stephen King's house a few years back! LOL!

Good thing my house and yard are in huge need of concentrated attention. I can distract myself and take my stress out on work and not on people.

Ugh.

Joan

[crazyhorse]

One of the norms was that she would leave me before the trip.

Gary,

That sounds so familiar. It did not matter which one of us was leaving on a business trip. There was always a huge conflict right before the departure.

CH