Need Some Advice

[Think About It....]

Hey Guys

I just got an email from my custody evaluator. He wants to meet with me and x at the first of August to discuss his findings...From what I gather the meeting will be ajoint meeting b/t the three of us. He hasn't specified the specific format of the meeting.

I have some concerns here...First of all I have no desire to be face to face with her. I divorced her I don't want to be in the same room with her. I seems that this will be an environment more conducive to her than to me. The whole thing makes me nervous...Do I say nothing to him and go along with it or do I say "I'm not comfortable having a meeting with her"...Do I have that right? Does it make me seem unreasonable?

[doc101]

Hey Guys

I just got an email from my custody evaluator. He wants to meet with me and x at the first of August to discuss his findings...From what I gather the meeting will be ajoint meeting b/t the three of us. He hasn't specified the specific format of the meeting.

I have some concerns here...First of all I have no desire to be face to face with her. I divorced her I don't want to be in the same room with her. I seems that this will be an environment more conducive to her than to me. The whole thing makes me nervous...Do I say nothing to him and go along with it or do I say "I'm not comfortable having a meeting with her"...Do I have that right? Does it make me seem unreasonable?

[JoannaK]

I think this kind of thing is a recipe for disaster, and I don't understand why some custody evaluators want to do it this way.  The C E may be trying to get both of you to see what he is suggesting "for the good of the children", but I don't know why he can't just write you a report that you can read independently. 

Did you know that this is the way he would present his findings before you engaged him? 

I would just call him and ask if there is some other way... or why he does things this way. 

[meryl]

ask what the purpose of this is- the 'in person' meeting?

It sounds to me like he may be uncomfortable with his findings and may want the oppty to explain/defend himself? You know, deal with it right there as opposed to the repeated hysterical phone calls by either party? Perhaps he wants YOU to protect him from her?

Either way it does not matter. When asked if I would meet with my exh, I said no. It was apparent from meeting separately that she was just as clueless as most people who had only met him recently.

"Give him another chance, everybody makes mistakes", she said...oh, Puleese!

I was glad I did not have to listen to that CR@P right in front of him which would have emboldened him immensely. And he was already an intimidating, pompous, self righteous, delusional NUT who I was terrified the courts would never recognize as such.

In the end the judge DID- the only one that mattered to me! Exh lost ALL custody, after repeated threats that he was going to *expose me* in court for the lying manipulative psycho that I was.

 : 

Try this one: tell him you want to tape record the meeting, if everybody agrees of course [bet he'll be the first to decline]. If they go along with it, never say a word!

 

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[ForeverDad]

Is he expecting to have two adults sit down with him?  I get the impression that the courts presume all married persons are adults.  Well, we all here know better.  As the others said, what is his goal?  To defuse complaints or hope you two will find a way to settle and minimize the tensions?  Unless he states his purpose or goal, it's hard to make suggestions.  Wasn't he a published expert?  Perhaps he has methods worth hearing, maybe bluntly tell the ex-w some hard news?  The odds of him being fooled should be minimal.

[Mr. M]

Strange, I went through 3 separate CEs and in none of them did we ever have a sit-down to discuss findings collectively.

A copy of the report was sent to our respective attorneys and then disseminated to us.

Frankly, a sit-down with all 3 is something I would avoid like the plague.

[happygirl]

First of all I have no desire to be face to face with her. I divorced her I don't want to be in the same room with her. I seems that this will be an environment more conducive to her than to me. The whole thing makes me nervous...

You ask an excellent question and it kind of tapped into something that I have been thinking about.  Because I am just now processing, my thoughts may have absolutely no relevance but I thought that I would throw them out there. 

I am operating from the premise that custody has been assigned and decided.  Am I not correct in that assumption or am  I missing something here?  Please advise if I am.

I have watched Walt bend and flex and be the nice guy for the professionals in a vain attempt to work with them.  We have discussed over and over that once they see her behavior, they will understand that she is the crazy one and compared to Walt's genial nature, we will prevail.

Well, we have been completely wrong and I think I know why.  We are dealing with counselor/mediator types.  What is there agenda? To find compliance and however they get it, they don't care.  So, you go in, all nice and normal and BPD starts to push the envelop, mediator bends to get compliance and usually it is at your expense (you know, give up this, give up that just to "flexible).  It places you in a difficult position because all your instincts are screaming boundaries and no one is listening to you.

I am now of the opinion that in the long run you are better off to state your concerns and your reasons for not meeting in an appropriate but firm way.  I have decided it doesn't matter what these people think because in the end, they will push for something in the middle, you might as well start way outside and where you want to start rather than give up just "appear compliant".  In the end, your compliance is used to forge something that you don't want or deserve.  Ask for a separate meeting until you can begin to trust the process, I think being honest with the evaluator is the best way to go.  At least by being honest with him/her, you are able to thrust your needs to the forefront should you have to meet later, evaluator will have a better sense of where you are coming from.

Like I said, it may not be good advice, it is just where I am at these days with professionals in this situation because I have nothing but contempt for the majority of them.

HG

[doc101]

happygirl,

Custody was agreed upon in the settlement agreement. We have joint custody with me having physical custody. We outlined visitation as every other weekend...her being responsable for transportation to and from...every other holiday and alternating weeks in the summer. This arrangement was contingent upon the recomendations of the GAL and the CE. I took a risk by agreeing to this. I really don't want the restraining order lifted nor do I want her to be unsupervised but I was fearful that at some point it will be lifted anyway and I wanted to be divorced before that happened. The problem here is that now I am somewhat stuck from a strategical standpoint. The CE nor the GAL can change custody but they would have the power to alter visitation. From the feel of the case I think the judge will agree with the GAL's recommendations regardless of what they may be...When I asked for the CE I was under the premise our case would be fought in court. I didn't want the judge to be in a position to make a decision about custody/visitation when he likely has no knowledge of PDs..I figured it was a safer bet. Now I don't really want the CE because it leaves me vulnerable, but on the other hand I want his recommendations because I think there is a chance he will force her into therapy and may require supervised visits. I guess what I'm getting at is if he grants unsupervised visits I didn't need him and I'm at risk to some pain in the ass parenting plan designed to help her be a good parent with me working my butt off to make it happen.

Your thoughts are well taken and I've been stressing on wether to tell him my concerns or to just go through with it because I don't want to seem beligerant or a zealot or your words "noncompliant".

What I don't know from the CE is wether or not he has reached a conclusion and has recomendations or if he is still trying to decide. If the meeting is strictly for implentation I think I could do it. If he is trying to get a "feel" for our relationship...I think I'll decline

I just want to play this smart.

[spinning]

I really don't want the restraining order lifted

If you have a restraining order, tell the CE you expressly wish to abide by it as it was ordered and is in place to *protect* you and yours. And to find another option. Period. The RO should be reason enough, IMO.

My DH was involved in "tag team" mediation, with him and UBPD in different rooms, and the mediator went back and forth. (UBPD still couldn't handle it and stormed off after one back-and-forth) Maybe this is an option for your CE?

[doc101]

Hey there guys...update:

I sent an email to the CE. He has told me he has not written up his formal recommendations as of yet. He wants to meet with us individually to discuss his findings and recommendations and then with us together to work on impementaion of a parenting plan that we both can "embrace".

I spoke with my lawyer who told me not to tell the CE that I was not willing to sit down and have a face to face. Incidentally he doesn't like the idea of the meeting. He probably has the best understanding of who/what X is than anyone I have ever met... He views her as a danger to my children, my family, and me...ultimately because he feels she would want to destroy anyone linked to me to hurt me...His favorite quote, "boy, this is all about you...it ain't got nothin' to do with those kids"   usually followed by "...this woman is a dangerous woman. She's playing everybody, stringing everybody along, she's got a dangerous mind, shes too darn smart". He, like most lawyers in small towns does general law so I think he's got a good appreciation for the criminal mind. He thinks she's capable of a Susan Smith.

He wants me to go along with the meeting but not agree to ANYTHING I'm not comfortable with..."just sit there and say, no. Then let your lawyers handle it"...

So that's where I'm at...

Often I feel paranoid about my concerns particularly about the possability of criminal behavior/violence. I have personally never been struck by her. But I know people she has (one of my nurses). She's kicked my son off of our bed, foot to face (3yo, witnessed by housekeeper...36inches off the ground). Bruising on my daughter's face...unwitnessed...she claimed allergic reaction...3 other doctors said trauma. She's never been responsable for the care of the 3 kids for more than a few hours...she was out of the house by way of RO by the time the youngest was 6 months old. In one of her rages I saw a look in her eyes that scared me. Physically I am much more empowered, but it freaked me out. I've only seen that look once. I've seen her in a rage of anger many times but I've only seen that look once. She looked evil and capable of anything.

I don't want her to EVER be alone with my kids.

I've seen way to many inconsistancies in her but the one constant is irresponsability and that bothers me...What is she like when she is alone with no one responsable watching? HOw would she act with no one to answer to, alone with the kids, when there is no threat of immediate repercussion? Who would be there to call her hand on neglect/abuse?

Sorry guys, just need to vent.

[happygirl]

He wants me to go along with the meeting but not agree to ANYTHING I'm not comfortable with..."just sit there and say, no. Then let your lawyers handle it"...

Hey, not a bad call by the attorney.  It serves to keep you in favor with the CE yet doesn't compel you to agree to anything.  ONe of the things that Walt had to learn was not to committ to anything just because it was asked of him.  That was so hard for him because he is the ultimate nice guy and was also very literate, thinking that decisions needed to be made right at that moment.  That was one of the strategies that he developed over time, if he wasn't sure, he would tell Joho that he would he callher tomorrow with his answer.  It was a struggle and this type of suggestion from the attorney is exactly in line with that strategy.

I would certainly hammer on the issue of her striking the nurse.  Sad thing here, too many others don't bat an eyelash at being angry with children.  the hitting the nurse deal, way over the top on the rage issue, work it.

Good luck and vent anytime.  Is your attorney familiar with Parallel Parenting Plans?


HG

[doc101]

[/quote]

Hey, not a bad call by the attorney.  It serves to keep you in favor with the CE yet doesn't compel you to agree to anything.  ONe of the things that Walt had to learn was not to committ to anything just because it was asked of him.  That was so hard for him because he is the ultimate nice guy and was also very literate, thinking that decisions needed to be made right at that moment. 

HG
[/quote]

I've tried very hard to follow all the advice given by my attorneys and I usually ask their advice before I do/say anything...I even copy all my emails to them...specifically to CE and to X...It makes me think long and hard about what I put down as a perminate record...My advice from my lawyers has been solid...It has pretty well mirrowed the advice I've gotten on this board...But this board has been a tremendous assett, particularly with stagedy and what to discuss with my attorneys and also what to expect from other professionals...Wouldn't be near as comfortable wthout FTF.

I'm not sure if my attorney is aware of the concept of parallel parenting although his advice is consistant with the concept...I'm also not sure if the GAL is familure with it...I need to address that

[doc101]

I can't figure out how to use the quote function...any tips?

[happygirl]

Doc, to do quotes when you are replying, look at the icons and you will see a balloon icon.  Click on that, it will render a set of quotes, you cut and paste whatever you want in that section.

HG

[enteringthefray]

Doc,

I'm married to a divorce attorney - and asked him what he would tell his client..This is where your attorney earns his money - He needs to call the CE, remind him of the restraining order and remind him that if the other party is in the room - it violates that restraining order, so that option is out unless the other party wants to go to jail immediately afterwards.  Most of the time, CEs just don't get personality disorders and expect everyone to be wearing their big people panties at these meetings, but BPs just don't own them and if they did - wouldn't be wearing them.

[doc101]

OMG...I didn't think of that...I need to dig out the RO and see if it comments on her and I or if it is strictly in regards to the kids...I've just put in a call to my attorney..thanks enteringthefray

[doc101]

bummer... went back and read the order...it restraines her from contact with the children but no referrence is made to me...but I still have my call in...I'll run it by him anyway

[enteringthefray]

So - if you aren't included in the restraining order - it's still a bad idea to be in the same room...I'd ask my attorney to be the fall guy with the CE...just have the attorney tell the CE that he has recommended to you - the client - that it would be a bad idea to have both parties in the same room, and he will be taking your place for the consultation.  It's why you hire these guys - to be your mouthpiece.