PERSPECTIVES: The do's and don'ts in a BPD relationship

[mamabear]

Thanks for the PUVAS. The commmunication stuff is really helping us. We had a wonderful weekend, even with MIL in tow...A few rough spots, but overall it's been her best visit in a long time. The more and more I find myself committed to staying and learning about the disease, the more I find myself being able to handle it and feel good about it.

[sunstar*]

Hello all! I have just come across this thread and I have found it strangely liberating. The person with BPD in my life is my now elderly mother. I have had twenty years to learn strategies to try and cope with her and in the process I have had a lot of therapy myself. I am grateful for the fact that I have had the opportunity to work on a lot of my own issues. As a result I feel that I can honestly say that the relationship that I now have with my mother is in no way based on any kind of enmeshment or codependent needs with myself. I can state categorically that if I was not related to this person she is not someone I would have got involved with.

Since returning to these boards I have been doing a lot of soul searching, questioning why I continue to have an ongoing one sided relationship with my mother. It is draining and soul destroying, with very little to recommend it. Looking back I should have made the decision when I started out on my adult life, twenty years ago, to break all contact with her, certainly she gave me plenty of reasons to do so. The reason I didn't was partly due to the fact that I lived in terror of her and I was frightened of the repercussions. Secondly I felt that I could be the stabilising reliable person in her life enabling her to feel safe and supported.

The reality is that it has not made a bit of difference in terms of her own recovery and it has just resulted in it having a negative impact on my own life. If I could leave her now, I probably would. However, at the age of 78 my mother is more dependent than ever upon me and quite frankly I feel that I have left it to late to go NC.

The best that I can do is accept the situation for what it is. It is never going to be possible to have a good, healthy, equal relationship with someone with BPD. However, I can choose to have a more rewarding, balanced and satisfying life in other ways and put more of my focus and energies into these and limiting the amount of influence and impact that I let the BP have on my life!

I am new to the workshop board so hope that my post is appropriate for this section. I was just inspired by what Skip and others had shared and am searching for new ways to be able to cope with having a someone with BPD in my life. Thank you!

 

[IN4M]

From Mr. Anderson

I think this nails it. Her behavior changes for a bit then reverts.

From Skip

In my experience, there wasn't any magic pill.  Finding closure, or meeting of the minds in real time, oftyen just couldn't be reached.  Things could only be left in some state of chaos... edgey.

The therapists feel this way as well . Just when they  think they  got the sucker nailed down some other facet of the disorder shows up thats part of the fractured self.



I think a  DO for someone in a committed relationship   is to be as educated as one can be about the borderline personality disorder from the clinical end . That takes lots of work and study on the Nons part . Its more important for the the person who has it to do the reading  but its difficut to be reading something that already feels chaotic to be made into yet something more complex.

For those who are out of their BPD relationship  more accurate knowledge  can bring more understanding to what really happened in your relationship.

  I found a book by  John d. Preston  that makes understanding BPD from the theraputic side understandable for the lay person as well.  In other words its simplified a bit.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/1572244461/ref=cm_rev_sort/104-5810199-3467948?customer-reviews.sort_by=-SubmissionDate&s=books&x=9&y=6
 

This book may have already been up for reveiw here and I missed it so this may be old news for some.

I have read some of it and actually found myself bursting out laughing , The man has a sense of humor .

To get to why I choose Mr. Andersons quote and Skips . I was reading about what John calls loss of temporal perspective on page 54 of his book.

He explains what most people are able to do when they are chewed out for doing something, they can call on past situations where they were working at top steam doing a great job so they can counter any reprimand.

Someone with BPD  get caught up in the moment of feeling the shame that goes with being reprimanded or when they make a mistake and they can't recall  the times they were okay. I believe theres an inner critic who deletes any attempt when they do try to recall the times they were just fine because they are not fine really everyone says so or maybe a caregiver gave thse messages  over and over. 

I think this plays a part in why they revert back to old behavior.


 If someones in this place they need a touchstone of sorts to help them remember they are not all bad till they can learn to do it for themselves more often.They need someone to help them see the invalidity of thier claim .

If your a NON who thinks they are all bad your not gonna make a good touchstone. This is hard to do in the face of being tested or accused raged at .  Another name for touchstone would be alter ego where another individual  stands in for the good part of them selves they can't find , This is aslo why someone with BPD has so much fear of beng abandoned when in this process of becoming their own stone they can touch.

Some of you are thinking  you've got a patient and a project not a partner.

I look at it as  someone who has suffered abuse.

Its all in the wording and wording reflects ones feelings and thoughts about people.

I don't think its productive to keep thinking in terms that your partner is just a patient and a project.

This puts them in a "less than"  pitying type of framework   


 
Do
 encourage them to just not always focus on problems,

To encourage them to participate in life.

To encorage them to get back up after they stumble

Its okay, they deserve to be here even if others told them they didn't once upon a time.

 And with every negative you hand them back a positive again and again.

IPJK

[mr_anderson1]

Thanks, IPJK! Excellent post.

He explains what most people are able to do when they are chewed out for doing something, they can call on past situations where they were working at top steam doing a great job so they can counter any reprimand.

Someone with BPD  get caught up in the moment of feeling the shame that goes with being reprimanded or when they make a mistake and they can't recall  the times they were okay. I believe theres an inner critic who deletes any attempt when they do try to recall the times they were just fine because they are not fine really everyone says so or maybe a caregiver gave thse messages  over and over. 

I think this plays a part in why they revert back to old behavior.

I think this is very interesting and applies to my uBPDW. When things are going great, I couldn't ask for a better partner. Rational, not agreeing to everything I say type partner, but a thinking realist individual. When things are going bad I couldn't ask for a more brutal enemy.

I think the above is very important. Or, well, just what I was looking for anyway.

[JoannaK]

Some of you are thinking  you've got a patient and a project not a partner.

I look at it as  someone who has suffered abuse.

Its all in the wording and wording reflects ones feelings and thoughts about people.

I don't think its productive to keep thinking in terms that your partner is just a patient and a project.

This puts them in a "less than"  pitying type of framework  

Perhaps thinking about a bpd partner as a patient or a project does put them in a "less than" framework, but, on the other hand, a non simply cannot expect the same kind of relationship with a person who has bpd as he/she can with someone more emotionally stable and mature.  It's a different relationship, and the person trying to connect with someone with bpd needs to understand that.  All of the Dos and Don'ts wouldn't be necessary if one was dealing with a partner, an "equal".  It doesn't mean that they are worth less as a human being, but it does mean that you have different expectations, different "rules" if you are interacting with this person.  

Many of the frustrations of non's in these kinds of relationships are due to having the same expectations of the relationship as one would have with someone who doesn't have bpd.  If you want to survive in the relationship, you need to cut your expectations down, wayyyy down.  You will have to be a parent, a project leader, even a "doctor" at times, even as you work to maintain your own dignity and sense of self.  If you are trying to have a romantic relationship, a marriage, with this person, you have to accept these roles, these functions, and give up your ideas about what a romantic relationship, a marriage "should" be.  Even if the bpd person is in active recovery, it may take years before you can have the envisioned relationship.. if at all.

"Radical acceptance"...  Doesn't mean it is necessarily bad or good, but it means that it is different, and the person in the relationship needs to understand and accept that.

[JoannaK]

From a website by Tami Green, a recovered person with bpd:

http://www.borderlinepersonalitysupport.com/howcanihelp.html

entitled "How in the World Can I Help Him?"...   Here are a few of her points in that article:

1.  Pertains to language...  Be non-judgemental, be validating.  Don't correct, lay blame, lecture, etc.

2.  Find treatment for the bpd person.

3.  Lower your expectations, wayyyy down.  Accept that we are severely impaired in key areas of brain functioning and therefore are not capable of things that come easily for others. This is a big one for people to swallow! Here is a typical conversation: "But she is so talented! She has her PhD and yet she can't even hold down a job! I just can't accept that she can't work!" Trust me, if she is not working, she can't. But, with your support and proper treatment, she will work again! But it may take a while.

4.  Learn to remain calm in crisis. If you think this one is impossible, think again. We live in internal crisis most of our lives and we are learning how to stay calm--so can you! Model this for us so we know it is possible!

5.  Model appropriate behavior.

6.  don't expect that we are capable of negotiating through the typical daily life decisions with you until the core symptoms of our illness are somewhat under control. Once we learn how to regulate our emotions, understand that many of our thoughts are altered and gain effective communication skills, you will be delighted to find our conversations becoming much more productive and pleasant.

...   There are 9 points all together...  A good read if you are with your bpd partner and hoping to remain so.

Also a good read if you are dealing with a bpd in a non-romantic situation (mother, child, other relative, coworker, friend.) 

[dados76]

This is just for my relationship with my partner maybe some things apply to others. If no- you ain't us.

Do...
Appreciate order and keeping things stable. disrupting regular days brings in more stress and makes things kind of crazy for days after.
Have stuff going on of my own. I'm an artist, and I usually have projects going on outside of home for a break. Sometimes he comes to help with metal sculpture because he is a welder too but most of the time it is my own space.
Remember the good things when he is being difficult. I would not be with him if I did not love him or did not believe he was working hard to be better in therapy and in recovery.
Know therapy and meetings are important. Without that there is no relationship.
Remember whatever he's feeling it's okay for him to feel it. It comes from someplace even if I don't get where it is at first.
Have things to talk about. Ideas and books and trivia he finds interesting.
Have fun. Play is a hard thing for him to understand sometimes. Games with rules are better but bubbles are good too.
Listen.

Don't...
engage. If he's real angry about something I tell him I will be back when he is more calmer and can talk and not yell.
Make things trivial. Even things that seem real crazy or little to me are sometimes huge for him.
Push away when he is making a  effort to be sorry or to be friendly or show affection.
Interfere with him trying to interact with other people. He is not always good at it and sometimes it hurts but just trying to talk with any people is a big step wit him. Sometimes I want to step in and tell people who interact with him what to do to not get blown up at but that doesn't really help him learn to not blow up.
Don't be threatening. I think with that he only reacts one of two ways with violence or to act like a very scared child.

Anyway that is some basic things, for how we live.

[Wanda]

okay for me to stay i had to do all this being very strong is very important, setting boudaries and keeping the boudaries, i had to change alot in me, and learn to accept, and understand,  it is very important to also take care of you, expecially during the hard times, learning to validate things and communicate was a long process of learning for me, due to i am the one who justified alot and wanted to explain my side i did everything wrong. and it just made things worse.
  it is like it was said we are the caregivers and that is exactly what we are, so we really need to spend time doing what we like and really serching who we are.

[HeartOfaBuddha]

Having just this week become enlightened enough to practice Radical Acceptance. Here are my Do's & Don'ts
My Do’s & Don’ts for a relationship with a BPD

Do  accept that she’s doing the best she can with limited capabilities
Do look for the good things she does
Do learn to accept yourself as a whole and healthy person.
Do acknowledge your part in the relationship dynamic.
Do accept that you can only change your own behavior.
Do educate yourself about the disorder and use what you learn.

Don’t pressure her to give more than she is able to give or behave in ways that emotionally mature people behave.
Don’t set her up to fail by spurning what she can offer.
Don’t take any of the mean statements personally.
Don’t try to “fix” her.

Peace & Meta

[dados76]

good advice buddha

[JoannaK]

Do  accept that she’s doing the best she can with limited capabilities

Perhaps...  if she has acknowledged her issues and is in/considering recovery.  But some with bpd will at times actually want to hurt the non intentionally... they may want to "get back".

[HeartOfaBuddha]

You know - it's good to see someone with experience say this.  I think sometimes on the staying board we be too inclined to excuse deliberate behavior with  "they can't help it"  and maybe sometimes they can?  I wonder what the line is?  How can we tell? I honestly don't think things can get to a healthy point unless the BPD person does acknowledge the issue.
Peace & Metta

[JoannaK]

Well, in a way "they can't help it" because their brains are not wired in a correct, healthy way.  But that doesn't always mean that there isn't negative intent.  My exh said to me at one time that he spent all of our money because he knew that would hurt me.  So the miswired part of his brain needed to get back at me (for no particular reason), but he did know what he was doing... There was intent in that he wanted to hurt me.

Someone with bpd may be doing things to hurt the partner...  because they are sure that the partner deserves the hurt.  That's where boundaries come in... no matter what the intentions of the bpd person, we can't allow our boundaries to be violated.  In my case, I should have been more careful with access to money so that he didn't spend all of it.
 

[Ice Man]

but if they're beating themselves up emotionally, what do you do- agree? Say, no you're not? I tried just about every reaction.

In my experience, there wasn't any magic pill.  Finding closure, or meeting of the minds in real time, oftyen just couldn't be reached.  Things could only be left in some state of chaos... edgey.

Maybe the only relief is within you and your ability to disengage and step away from it.  Accept the chaos and the edgey-ness and the way thing must be and learn how not to worry about it - find emotional relief some other way - with someone else. 

When HE finally wants to talk about it, there is always Randi Kreger's formula; Puvas

• Pay attention
• Understand fully
• Validate emotions
• Assert yourself
• Shift stuff where it belongs

I found this very helpful.

Emotionally satisfying? No.  A sign of a healthy relationship?  No,   just life with a BPD partner.  And if (or when) you can't find it in yourself to accept this anymore -  you probably need to get out of the relationship.

Just some thoughts - although, my relationship ended, so these are like golf tips from the worst player on the course 

Skippy

Hi Skippy, just have a question for you. I'm sure I'm a worse golfer than you are. Question is:

1. What if she comes back to you and there's something telling you that things might just work out this time after a long time battling this, you and her..? Will you revive it?

*I wonder since you're initiator of this Site and sound really compassionate and helpful, after all this work, . . don't you want to achieve something ?
and also there profile of yours don't say much about the whole story, and how it is ending, is she living alone now?

Thanks for this Site.
and Merry Christmas !       
john.

[united for now]

Change isn't easy. The way you feel about them ( RADICAL ACCEPTANCE ), the way you listen to them ( EMPATHETIC LISTENING ), the way you comm with them ( VALIDATION ), the way you respond to them ( BOUNDARIES ), all of these are tools that we use to stop making things worse so that we can begin to make them better.

It takes time and a lot of practice, but as you change - they are forced to change too.

If we stop following and instead take the lead we will see a difference   

[SmileAnyway]

If we stop following and instead take the lead we will see a difference   

This is so true, thank you for headlining this thread again.  Very useful food for thought.

I am struggling a bit at present though.  For example how do you validate a spouse that only uses the silent treatment with you and ignores you (six months and counting!).  Sure I can do boundaries, radical acceptance and examine myself for codependency issues, but how do I show I still love her and that I validate her, when she treats me as hated and ignores me?

 ?