Abusive Behavior

[Think About It...]

you are in a very dangerous spot right now.

and this is how it could end; with you in jail.

i know what you're thinking, "no way, not to me, she wouldn't do that, she loves me".

well, you would be wrong.

you must appreciate that her mind is disordered. she perceives, relates, and behaves abnormally as a result. but she believes her reality, and will be very convincing when telling the police, lawyers, friends, family, what happened.

seeing the "glee in her eyes" thing, i have been there too. driven to exasperation by a borderline, with either emotional and/or physical abuse, and they get happy because of your distress. if it hadn't happened to me then i wouldn't believe it myself.

trust me, you only have to make one mistake and she can split, paint you black, and then she will devote herself entirely to destroying you. false accusations, etc., are all par for the course.

read about liberrateddad and nhbeachbum, nice guys who ended up in jail because they "abused" their whacko girlfriends. i came very close too. it was ok for her to throw a beer at my face from six feet away and to threaten to kill me, sink my boat, ruin my professional reputation, etc., but when i physically removed her from my house (to protect myself and my young daughter) she called the police and suddenly i was the abuser.

warning; it can get out of control very fast. and when it does she will turn on you with a vengeance that will shock you. it happens here all the time with female borderlines. and you will have a very hard time convincing anybody away from this forum that you aren't the abuser and that she is. even your friends will look at you in a funny way.

i'm advising you to get away from this woman before she does some serious damage to you. you think it can't happen to you but it can.

b2       

[bewildered2]

you are in a very dangerous spot right now.

and this is how it could end; with you in jail.

i know what you're thinking, "no way, not to me, she wouldn't do that, she loves me".

well, you would be wrong.

you must appreciate that her mind is disordered. she perceives, relates, and behaves abnormally as a result. but she believes her reality, and will be very convincing when telling the police, lawyers, friends, family, what happened.

seeing the "glee in her eyes" thing, i have been there too. driven to exasperation by a borderline, with either emotional and/or physical abuse, and they get happy because of your distress. if it hadn't happened to me then i wouldn't believe it myself.

trust me, you only have to make one mistake and she can split, paint you black, and then she will devote herself entirely to destroying you. false accusations, etc., are all par for the course.

read about liberrateddad and nhbeachbum, nice guys who ended up in jail because they "abused" their whacko girlfriends. i came very close too. it was ok for her to throw a beer at my face from six feet away and to threaten to kill me, sink my boat, ruin my professional reputation, etc., but when i physically removed her from my house (to protect myself and my young daughter) she called the police and suddenly i was the abuser.

warning; it can get out of control very fast. and when it does she will turn on you with a vengeance that will shock you. it happens here all the time with female borderlines. and you will have a very hard time convincing anybody away from this forum that you aren't the abuser and that she is. even your friends will look at you in a funny way.

i'm advising you to get away from this woman before she does some serious damage to you. you think it can't happen to you but it can.

b2       

[TonyC]

b2 is right... it could be self defense...

but you will end up being the aggressor...nobody wins...

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[Silas Pseudonym]

Hi Aggie,

Now the men weighed in, so listen up!

You must plan.  You must protect your reputation.  You must keep it quiet.

Be careful who you confide in.  Even family may speak up, tell her, "Oh we were only trying to help!""

Salt away a little $$$.  Talk to a lawyer.  Get evidence of her abuse, record it, check the legality of taping, in your state.  Even if it's not admissible in court, it can show, you are not the crazy one.

When the time comes to, go.  Do not stay in her presence alone.  A friend, or if you must a "civil standby" cops there to prove you did not attack her.

Marriage counseling is nearly always hopeless.  If you work toward change & fixing it.  She needs to agree to therapy & staying in it &...

the best way for it to work...with an abuser...is for her to allow the therapist to communicate with you.

AFTER that agreement, yes maybe joint counseling.

It won't work.  I'll betcha!

Sorry honey, with pain, there is growth...I try to end with a positive.

Silas

[aggie99]

Thanks everyone for your support. 

Here is the tricky part.  I bought a 2 bedroom condo about 2 years ago in which both of us live (though my BPD gf constantly claims ownership to it - thank goodness shes not on the grant deed).  Anyway, I have managed to move all my personal stuff out.  Heres the question, if worse comes to worse.. am i the one to vacate my own place?  It has 2 bedrooms but i cant see sharing the same space with her since her unpredictability, rages, re-engaging, etc all make the situation worse or confusing. I am almost certain she will throw a fit or rage if i tell her that i want her to move out.  Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[bewildered2]

so you've moved all your stuff out of your place in anticipation of moving out yourself because of her crappy behavior?

see how clever she is?

buddy, she is one smart manipulator.

here's what you do.

move all your stuff back into your condo. then, when you're ready, tell her to move her stuff out of your condo. if she asks for a reason just say, "it isn't working out".

want to know what happens next?

she either:

1. learns to behave real fast
2. she moves out

my money is on option 1.

do not move out of your place and leave her in it.

b2     

[Silas Pseudonym]

Hi Aggie,

I don't think you should move your stuff back 'till she's out.  Since it is an SO situation, she does not have the same rights as a renter.  You still have to protect your reputation, tape her reaction.  And if she gets out of hand, have her arrested.  You could use one of those babysitter cams...

Once she blows up, you can ask for the civil standby & give her ex amount of time to vacate. 

Silas

PS I ran the estranged out of here...felt great.

[flex60]

We must be careful, I live in texas where we have common law statue's.  I asked my BP to leave
as she stole fifty five hundred dollars and spent it in a week, with nothing to show, she was a shopper.   That was the straw.
But she filed for divorce and won, she was cunning, she had opened a bank account, in mr and mrs, had put me on her health insurance, and bought a life insurance policy for us, although I had more than suffecient health and life insurance.   She purchased rings.
She presented those to the presiding judge, I was not or never was aware she had done these things, with exception I knew about the rings, she had bought
whammo, I lost.
I must say that her attorney made my attorney look like ned in the first reader. My attorney was more nieve than I.
I was foolish, I thought right always won out, as I had given her six hundred a month to purchase groceries, and she kept her paycheck for herself, I treated her financially like a paid prostitute.  But treated her well, I thought that was the right thing to do since I refused to marry her.
I really thought I loved her, so much that my heart would break if she left, but I was in the middle of chemo for leukemia when she blew the money.  So I thought hell she is going to kill me anyway, and told her to leave.  She did come back after a month and promise to pay half the money back.  But by then, the pain was too great for her slamming me when my back was against the wall, so it was easy to ask her to go. I shall never forget her coming back it was the day after thankgiving.  The day before an old friend invited me for dinner.
I recall sitting around the their table with this family who really cared and loved each other Me thinking where have I been. I had been taken to the land of oz, Folks with BP can isolate you, and mess with your mind. As I said, my big aha moment was visiting with a family that was real, and not living in a delusion, like I had put myself.
I can't really understand how they do it, so cunning. Obviously their thoughts are not hampered with silly things like compassion, empathy and love for another human being.
A sense of fairness means they get it all, and then still be unhappy with the situation.
I thought she was only joking when she said, whats yours is mine, and whats ours is mine, and whats mine is mine. But she truly thought that.

Anyway thanks for tolerating my little sob story.

I agree with the poster above, perhaps take her around and let her look at some apartments, where she might move into, if she refuses to change her aggressive behavior.  Really get her attention, and if necessary get her setup, and help her move, it might be the best move you ever made.  BP's are very consistent in thinking they own you, so they can do anything they wish to you.
BP's don't relate cause and affect very well, but they do understand reward and punishment.
if the stakes are high enough. And they can control their behavior if the punishment is intolerable.
But expect some type of vindictive behavior in return, even if she consents to controlling herself.  And don't expect to win in the long run. I suggest you might be like me, you feel sorry for her, and you confuse that sympathy for love. We non's have elephants in the closet too, we just have to figure out what to call our elephants.   
regards david

[ZenLady]

aggie- i'm REALLY glad you're taking steps to get out of this siutation and take care of your own needs. i'm also glad to hear you've taken steps to protect your personal items that have some meaning to you. i would leave your stuff wherever it is for now.

i would suggest you talk to an attorney to learn how to best protect your own rights and property in this process. many attornies offer free or low cost consultations, and that might be enough to get you on the right track. you're right she'll throw a GRAND ROYAL fit and leaving her alone in your place may put your investment in the condo at risk. yes, it's only money and not worth your sanity, safety or general well-being, but no point in making it harder than it already is, either.

please also make sure that you are honest with your attorney about the abuse because he or she needs full information in order to give you good advice.

i very much hope you do decide to follow through, because i don't think this behavior on her part is either acceptable on ANY level or repairable. the question now isn't how to get her to behave or for how long, but rather how to protect yourself as best you can.

[Butterflygirl]

Many people find themselves drawn into abusive relationships and do not understand why.  The following is a list of the most common conscious and unconscious reasons people fall into this trap. They may not apply to you. Only you can determine that.

Love is blind:  Most people fall in love or get married before they find out their partner is abusive.  The abusive partner keeps this hidden until the trap is sprung.  After the abuse starts, these people continue to love their abuser.  They tell themselves that they are just taking the good with the bad.

Dependency on the relationship:  Other people don't love their abuser, but they are dependent on the relationship, and they would rather suffer physical pain than endure the emotional pain of breaking up.  They cannot tolerate separation anxiety.

Low self-esteem:  Some people have such low self-esteem that they don't think they deserve any better.  So they just stick with it.  They think this is better than nothing.

Abusive parents:  Some people had an abusive parent so this abuse is not out of the ordinary for them.  It is seen as the norm.  It may even be equated with love.  An abusive parent can also be loving, so battered children grow up confusing love with abuse. This confusion becomes a distorted value which influences them as adults.

Neighborhood norm:  To some people abuse may seem ordinary because all of their friends are being abused as well.  In some neighborhoods domestic violence is the norm.  It may seem futile to try and change the status quo.

It's my fault:  Some people blame themselves rather than their partner.  They are sure it is their own fault--that they did something to provoke their partner.  Sometimes they even think they deserve the abuse.  They keep trying to change themselves so it won't happen anymore.

Gullibility:  Some people are gullible and don't learn from the past.  They believe their partner when he or she says the abuse will never happen again.  Like children, they cling to the fantasy that this person will change.

Sympathy:  Many people feel sorry for their partner when he or she asks for forgiveness.  They know their partner is sick so they decide to take care of him or her rather than end the relationship.  Caretakers are used to putting the needs of others before their own.  This is misguided compassion.

Loyalty:  When some people make a commitment they feel they must be loyal no matter what--that they have no right to change their mind.  They feel guilty if they reject someone, even if that someone is abusing them.  This is misguided loyalty.

Projecting one's fear of abandonment:  Some people project their fear of abandonment onto their partners.  They are so afraid of being rejected themselves that they become overly empathetic. They feel their partner will suffer from the rejection and they cannot bear to see someone else suffer, even someone who hurts them.

Fear of revenge:  Many people are terrified of leaving an abusive partner because they fear revenge or because they are financially dependent on this person.

Martyr's complex:  Some people have a martyr's complex.  They feel superior when they suffer in the name of love.  They wear abuse like a badge of courage.  In a twisted sort of way this actually elevates their self-esteem.  Christians especially fall into this trap.  They think that because Christ died on the cross for the sins of mankind that they should die on the cross for the sins of their partner. They should not.  They are not Christ.  Some Christians read in the Bible that "love bears all things" and they think that this includes abuse.  I don't think it does.  Non-Christians fall into this trap also.  They listen to the song "Stand by your man," and they think it is romantic to stick with a relationship no matter what.

Self-pity:  Some people let people abuse them because they like feeling sorry for themselves.  They like licking their own wounds.  Their self-esteem is so low that they substitute self-pity for self-love.  Then they become dependent on the self-pity and allow, or even promote, abuse to get a fix.

Making up:  Some people don't like being abused, but they like making up.  For instance, when their partner is begging for forgiveness they feel superior and in control.  They like the attention.  They like the flowers and apologies, so they talk themselves into believing that these gestures of remorse actually make up for the abuse.

Negative attention:  Many people are so starved for attention that even negative attention will do.  They might tell themselves that if he didn't love me so much he wouldn't be so angry.  This is twisted thinking and can lead to trouble.

Sexual stimulation:  Some people find some aspects of abuse sexually stimulating, so they endure the pain to get the pleasure that follows. If this is true, such  people may have to face the fact that they have become addicted to the abuse--not to their partners.  The phenomenon of pain followed by pleasure can be especially addictive.  One actually starts to believe that the only way to find pleasure is to suffer first.

[stormsurge]

Aggie,

I'm very sorry to read what you're going through. No human being should have to take this kind of treatment in a relationship. I believe a relationship should be a safe place where the other person loves you, treats you well and has your back at all times. It should be the refuge from the crazy cruel world we all live in.

I don't know what to say but that if you leave and she attempts to take her life, it will not be because you left but because she is mentally ill. That she is so abusive and a suicidal threat makes it apparent she is mentally ill. let me repeat myself: IF YOU LEAVE AND SHE ATTEMPTS TO TAKE HER LIFE IT WILL BECAUSE SHE IS MENTALLY ILL, NOT BECAUSE YOU LEFT.

You did not make her crazy and no matter what you say, what you do or how long you stay, whether you go tonight or 20 years from now - none of it will make an ounce of difference. She has to battle and conquer her sickness. Your destruction won't speed it along and it indeed may prevent her from really facing the true problem she has avoided all these years - herself.

Take care of yourself. Protect your self. Rebuild your self. She sounds like a person who has done a lot - via her illness - to have damaged you. A dog in the street shouldn't be treated like this.

[aggie99]

Thank you everyone for your support.  I dont know why, but it really helps to hear it from others even though i know in my heart i need to leave this destructive relationship and chaos.  Its interesting what Butterflygirl wrote about being afraid of revenge - because i have to admit it is fear of revenge that also prevents me from leaving.  I feel like this girl has too many avenues in which to get back at me.  And when she rages, its no holds barred.  Why do BPDs feel this insatiable need to take revenge and get even?  And how do i confront my fears of her taking revenge?  I believe ive already started by informing my workplace of her potential behavior.   And admittingly, i feel a little more resolved in ending this relationship.

[Butterflygirl]

How do i confront my fears of her taking revenge? 

You feel the fear and do it anyway.

You have faith.

You hold your head up hight and move forward.

You get angry.

For once you put yourself first.

You stay focused on a positive outcome.

You take chances.

You push yourself.

You make a list of affirmations.

You do for yourself what you have always done for others.

[shane]

Aggie,

Have you talked with a lawyer yet? If not, I suggest you do so as soon as possible.
Tell the lawyer the truth about her abuse...you're not the only man to be abused by a mentally ill woman.

If you haven't already done so, do a google search on 'male abuse', and spend some time reading about the facts.

[shane]

check this out: http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Victim/forMen.htm