BPD BEHAVIORS: How it feels to have BPD

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GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT This board is intended for general questions about BPD and other personality disorders, trait definitions, and related therapies and diagnostics. Topics should be formatted as a question. Please do not host topics related to the specific pwBPD in your life - those discussions should be hosted on an appropraite [L1] - [L4] board. You will find indepth information provided by our senior members in our workshop board discussions (click here).

[DamagedFriend]

These posts are very interesting to me because I am having the most difficulty seperating because I wanted to believe that my BPD friend thought like me.  I can't wrap my mind around their inability to be rational and willing to understand another point of view.

As I read through these posts, it makes more sense to read it from others.  I especially like the gardening tools analogy. That says it all.  When I did and said the right things I was awesome but as soon as I started to sputter it was time to put me out to pasture.  

I am working hard to seperate. I'm flipping back and forth between acceptance of the BPD behavior I dealt with and denial that this could happen to me.  My friend really toyed with my mind like nothing I have ever experienced before in any relationship.  I think I may start a journal to try and capture all my thoughts and feelings in order to work through it and make some sense and ultimate acceptance that this is who she is...long before I met her and probably for a long time to come.  Of course, knowing that she has trust and abandonment issues makes me feel guilty for being another person who "let her down", not really, but in her mind I did.

[itsaconspiracy]

Oceanheart,

My gf has been diagnosed recently with bpd, I see some aspects of bpd in myself either from my own behaviour in our relationship or beliefs and other things that are ingrained in me that help shape my outlook on other people. I have seen what a person is like who has bpd I have lived with and loved that person, but at the same time I can see some of it has either rubbed off on me or been there all along. Maybe I have some other type of disfunction (or I am too!, scary). One thing I know from reading posts on here is that although alot of our respective partners all seem to act in a certain way and our stories are all similar, each bpd seems to be a bit different, it seems to vary with each individual.

[Cr8peace]

PDquick- perfectly put! Honestly, reading the post by pwbpd and nonbpd is making me go in circles. I want terribly to have compassion for them. however, I know how badly i and others have been hurt and their behavior is inexcusable...unless they are like Ocean and truly seeking help. Hats off too you Ocean. you can do it

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT This board is intended for general questions about BPD and other personality disorders, trait definitions, and related therapies and diagnostics. Topics should be formatted as a question. Please do not host topics related to the specific pwBPD in your life - those discussions should be hosted on an appropraite [L1] - [L4] board. You will find indepth information provided by our senior members in our workshop board discussions (click here).

[ShadesofGray]

I'm just curious because so many of the traits and beliefs mentioned in the original post, as well as the black and white thinking (splitting) are also so prevalent in my own experience with anxiety, panic, and depression, which my therapist believes stems from emotional abuse in my childhood.  So how come I was diagnosed with panic instead of bpd?  And how come i was able to hear a diagnosis and get to the hard work of therapy, but my sister-in-law nearly sues people for suggesting she see a therapist?  How come my beliefs in my worthlessness led me to sit sadly and quietly in the dark, apologizing for my existence, but hers inspire her to physically back people up against the wall until they admit they know less than her about something?  Has anyone heard any theories about how these behaviors are learned, and why people with different illnesses respond so completely differently to seemingly identical beliefs and twisted thinking?

I am not doubting the severe pain of living a life with abandonment issues and feelings of worthlessness, and I certainly understand that, as completely separate, legitimate illnesses, they likely have completely separate cognitive and biological sources. 

I'm just really curious why feelings of worthlessness in some people cause them to quietly try to remove themselves from the environment, and others rage around like rabid elephant, and cavort as though they own the place.

Anyone have any theories?

Here's what this made me think of... something I keep bringing up to T that bothers me. If you look at the subtypes of pwBPD, there are two subsets of two, which are complete opposites...sort of like you described above in your last sentence...why two people handle feelings of worthlessness completely opposite. The hermit/waif and those not with BPD but with BPD traits are quite similar. Yet those two subtypes are completely different that the queen/witch.

I told my T that I think hermit/waif BPDs and traits should have a different diagnosis label than queen/witch BPD label. It's apples to oranges.

[oceanheart]

Ok, this might be self-serving    but I agree that there seems to be a big difference between waif-hermit/in-acting BPD and queen-witch/out-acting BPD. I think it has to do with how much NPD is present and that lots of the pwBPD on this board sound more like pwNPD.

My new therapist has said she does not think I have BPD. I have to gently remind her that she is seeing me at the end of a 5+ year recovery process and at one time all 9 DSM criteria fit, as well as ALL 19 of the cognitive distortions in my original 2007 post on this thread. She has straight-out told me I have better insight than 90% of ALL of her other clients, which is something others have told me, but I don't think that disqualifies me as BPD. I think denial of wrongdoing to the abusive and dysfunctional extent we read about here is a function of NPD. I personally have always taken too much responsibility for things (SewingKit's "apologizing for my existence"), but that's mostly due to my FOO issues. I'll say that I'm glad I have the capacity to do so, because it has really helped me own up to my faults and face the consequences of my actions. BPDRecovery - the forum for pwBPD trying to get better - uses the Existential Paradox as a teaching/healing tool:

We are not responsible for how we came to be who we are as adults but as adults we are responsible for whom we have become and for everything we say and do.

But in the end, the diagnosis/label is irrelevant and what really matters is the work we do towards healing and growth and in the way we treat other people.

I'm just curious because so many of the traits and beliefs mentioned in the original post, as well as the black and white thinking (splitting) are also so prevalent in my own experience with anxiety, panic, and depression, which my therapist believes stems from emotional abuse in my childhood.  So how come I was diagnosed with panic instead of bpd?  And how come i was able to hear a diagnosis and get to the hard work of therapy, but my sister-in-law nearly sues people for suggesting she see a therapist?  How come my beliefs in my worthlessness led me to sit sadly and quietly in the dark, apologizing for my existence, but hers inspire her to physically back people up against the wall until they admit they know less than her about something?  Has anyone heard any theories about how these behaviors are learned, and why people with different illnesses respond so completely differently to seemingly identical beliefs and twisted thinking?

I am not doubting the severe pain of living a life with abandonment issues and feelings of worthlessness, and I certainly understand that, as completely separate, legitimate illnesses, they likely have completely separate cognitive and biological sources. 

I'm just really curious why feelings of worthlessness in some people cause them to quietly try to remove themselves from the environment, and others rage around like rabid elephant, and cavort as though they own the place.

Anyone have any theories?

Here's what this made me think of... something I keep bringing up to T that bothers me. If you look at the subtypes of pwBPD, there are two subsets of two, which are complete opposites...sort of like you described above in your last sentence...why two people handle feelings of worthlessness completely opposite. The hermit/waif and those not with BPD but with BPD traits are quite similar. Yet those two subtypes are completely different that the queen/witch.

I told my T that I think hermit/waif BPDs and traits should have a different diagnosis label than queen/witch BPD label. It's apples to oranges.

[Camoola]

20 Common Negative Assumptions in BPD thinking:

  1. I will always be alone
  2. There is no one who really cares about me, who will be available to help me, and whom I can fall back on.
  3. If others really get to know me, they will find me rejectable and will not be able to love me; and they will leave me.
  4. I can't manage by myself, I need someone I can fall back on.
  5. I have to adapt my needs to other people's wishes, otherwise they will leave me or attack me.
  6. I have no control of myself.
  7. I can't discipline myself.
  8. I don't really know what I want.
  9. I need to have complete control of my feelings otherwise things go completely wrong.
10. I am an evil person and I need to be punished for it.
11. If someone fails to keep a promise, that person can no longer be trusted.
12. I will never get what I want.
13. If I trust someone, I run a great risk of getting hurt or disappointed.
14. My feelings and opinions are unfounded.
15. If you comply with someone's request, you run the risk of losing yourself.
16. If you refuse someone's request, you run the risk of losing that person.
17. Other people are evil and abuse you.
18. I'm powerless and vulnerable and I can't protect myself.
19. If other people really get to know me they will find me rejectable.
20. Other people are not willing or helpful.

Source: Behaviour Research & Therapy article [only abstract available]

This has been a huge insight, my boyfriend has BPD and he exhibits and flats out say most of the things on the list himself. However, I spend a lot o my time trying to show him that he is not a monster, I (and others) love him for the person he is when he's having a 'good day' (will not go into his past, but I completely understand WHY he has BPD).

I feel that because he knows he has BPD, he tries by himself to moderate. But it doesn't work and he goes through the whole above process again. It is truly heartbreaking to have your love thrown back in your face and having to start all over again. But i know it's equally if not more, hard for him. Which sends me into a loop of anger against him, then guilt because it's not his fault, then more anger because if he tried as hard as you clearly have, Ocean, then we would be in a better place, then guilt again etc...  

My point is, that there are BPDs who will try and explain their perspective through some means, and the problem is then what the nonBPD does with that information (I may be doing it wrong, or maybe there is no correct way to comfort them when they express their feelings)

[pari]

This is a wonderful thread.

Oceanheart: Thanks for summarizing these points. My BPDfbf has most of these feelings on and off.

I introduced him to concept of BPD and he wanted to cut me off his life, so that I can be happy and healthy. This hurts so bad. I kept trying to make it work and it hurt more. What hurts most is that he has no support besides me.

cocobell: You have summarized key points from entire thread for beautifully. I feel the exact same response for those statements. Worst part is that you know you can't live with them because they have a brain dysfunction but the thought of leaving them hurts so much. He feels so much like a child and I want to take care of him.

I feel so attached to my BPDbf and it keeps hurting me. Sometimes he is cool and stable. May be he hides his feelings from me. But I know inside he is weak and broken and needs help.  I feel guilty for leaving him miserable and helpless.

[Oldsoldier2411]

20 Common Negative Assumptions in BPD thinking:

  1. I will always be alone
  2. There is no one who really cares about me, who will be available to help me, and whom I can fall back on.
  3. If others really get to know me, they will find me rejectable and will not be able to love me; and they will leave me.
  4. I can't manage by myself, I need someone I can fall back on.
  5. I have to adapt my needs to other people's wishes, otherwise they will leave me or attack me.
  6. I have no control of myself.
  7. I can't discipline myself.
  8. I don't really know what I want.
  9. I need to have complete control of my feelings otherwise things go completely wrong.
10. I am an evil person and I need to be punished for it.
11. If someone fails to keep a promise, that person can no longer be trusted.
12. I will never get what I want.
13. If I trust someone, I run a great risk of getting hurt or disappointed.
14. My feelings and opinions are unfounded.
15. If you comply with someone's request, you run the risk of losing yourself.
16. If you refuse someone's request, you run the risk of losing that person.
17. Other people are evil and abuse you.
18. I'm powerless and vulnerable and I can't protect myself.
19. If other people really get to know me they will find me rejectable.
20. Other people are not willing or helpful.

Source: Behaviour Research & Therapy article [only abstract available]

Thank you oceanheart for this insight into what a BPD sufferer feels. It is very much appreciated.

Ian

[oceanheart]

...   I feel guilty for leaving him miserable and helpless.

Here is the crux of it for many SO of pwBPD...   This is what makes you human and loving, and yet may keep you "trapped" in an untenable situation [especially if your pwBPD is not in active recovery].

I have no answers, only experiences to draw on. I have no good advice, either, expect maybe just please try to remember to take care of yourself and to honor the hard work you're doing, and the courage you have in trying.

[sm15000]

I think denial of wrongdoing to the abusive and dysfunctional extent we read about here is a function of NPD.

I can see a lot of the negative assumptions you listed in my ex but he also denied wrong-doing, IMO, to an abusive and dysfunctional extent.  I know labels are sometimes irrelevant but when I have read about Vulnerable Narcissists - it fits my ex a lot.