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Author Topic: Is lying common in pwBPD?  (Read 5567 times)
BlushAndBashful
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 10:56:39 PM »

TiredMommy,

I do think it is very important to acknowledge the "whys" of why a pwbpd lies (skewed reality, defense mechanism, etc) but to answer your question- at least in my case, YES. Yes to the Nth degree. I cannot stress the word YES enough.

At first, I don't believe my pwbpd flat-out lied to me; it was omissions, bending of truth, misleading statements- it took almost a year for me to begin to catch on.  For example, if I wanted to see him, I would call him in the evening at home and he wouldn't return my phone call. I would also email him and get no reply. The next morning he would email me that he was sorry he missed the call, and that his son was downloading music on the computer. (This was back in the day of land lines and dial-up connection).

Now, both of those items were true. He missed my call. And indeed, his son was probably on the computer all evening. However, the two had nothing to do with each other, he just wanted me to believe they were related.  He didn't get the call or the email the night before because he was with another woman. But he didn't really lie, right?

The lies continued, and his whole life seemed to hinge on this spiderweb of lies he had woven. It wasn't that he lied frequently; it was all the time on dang near a daily basis.  When I would force myself on his friends and try to defend myself, IF they listened to me, they would say "Mauser, you always said he was a liar, but I had no idea how much of one he was!"

In studying the reasons behind dishonestly, it does give me more empathy towards him. But the bottom line is, I hate dishonesty and will not tolerate it. I tried for years to get to the "real issues" so he could stop lying, but it never worked.
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cbas

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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2012, 11:40:54 PM »

I've spoken to my udBPD wife about this, in the round about way that one can talk about with her about this subject.

1) Couple times I have caught her in a lie she would say it was purely impulsive and it's just what would pop out of her mouth. She claims to have no idea why.  If the sky was blue and clear she would say it's cloudy and grey.  Yes was no and no was yes.  Think Spong Bob Square Pants "Opposite Day" - if you've even seen it. 

2) Avoid something unpleasant. So didn't vacuum when she said she was going to.  When I asked her "did you vacuum" she said yes and kept playing WoW.  These ones remind me of a child testing the limits of what they can get away with ie, emotional maturity.  Also would include avoiding consequences of her "impulsive" behavior.

3) Protect her reality and image of what she wanted her life to be, not able to look at it for what it is, because it is so horrible.  Apparently something that happens in PTSD victims. Here she convinces herself that it isn't a lie.  They really do believe their own BS.

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DeaconTheVillain


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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2012, 12:35:53 AM »

I'll never be able to prove it, but I believe my exBPDgf went so far as to press sexual assult charges on someone she probably tired to hook up with in order to get drugs.

Basically, she got high and I got mad at her for that and told her to leave my house.  She left and then an hour later I got all these texts saying she was scared and in trouble..She was with a guy and she was scared and he was touching her.  I flipped out and told her to have him take you home...make up an excuse and that I would be there.  Well, I went there and waited and she comes walking down her street seemingly upset (an act?) and told me he was grabbing her breasts and trying to kiss her and touching her etc..  Thinking that she might have been lying just to see what I would do (since we had just gotten together and it was like our first fight) I decided to call her bluff and i told her that she needed to report this to the police if what she just told me happened.  She was hesitant but did.  Then I kept pressing her to follow up with it, as she didn't seem to care.  Surely she wouldn't file a false report on someone for something like this would she?  Well, she might have.  She told me he sexually assulted her and from that point on there was no going back in her mind (if she lied).  She was sticking to the story.

Well, it comes back to me that his story was completely different and in all likelihood probably happened the way he said it did.  I heard the police didn't believe her, but she went to the magistrate because I kept insisting that she do something about this (cuz I wanted to believe her and didn't know her very well yet).  So charges were brought.  And guess what, when the day of court came around she just so happened to show up an hour late for court claiming that she thought it was at 2:30 not 1:30 (I was with her) and then she was given the opportunity to continue with the charge, even after showing up late, she declined.

The thing is, I am not sure whether she believes he assaulted her or not.  No one else believes her
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This board is intended for general questions about BPD and other personality disorders, trait definitions, and related therapies and diagnostics. Topics should be formatted as a question.

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pippobom
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2012, 05:27:59 PM »


The emotional state and what a sufferer wants to be the case just "is" reality. Then they project it. Do they know they are projecting a distorted reality? I've read pieces where a claimed BPD sufferer does know what they are doing, the distortion is just reflexive and they do it to fit in, project a positive image of themselves or avoid shame and negative perceptions. They also do it to get what they want.
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I wouldn't even attempt to speak to the condition as a whole, but from dxBPDgf's example, yes from our reality is lying is something they do. However, in the disorder it's not lying per se. It's motivated by the dark side of the disorder. Shame and exposing their faults, they'll to great lengths and mental gymnastics to avoid it. It's a reflex and the feelings they need to avoid that shame are now reality irregardless of the true reality.

The scary thing until you are versed in this behavior, this trait can be brutally deceptive. I've maintained that the lying, mirroring and taking on another's image is frighteningly effective due to the almost sociopathic ability to sell their image. The lack of any internal identity within the sufferer makes them able to don masks and sell them with nary a hint of a problem - until it's too late.

For me, the word 'reflexive' regarding lying and pwBPD rings loudly. He DOES know when he is lying, but doesn't 'seem' to hold much, if any, moral compass regarding it. There have been BIG lies, stealing credit card, money, then denying it...but there have been oodles, TONS, of gratuitous lies too, as if he receives some confirmation from it, as if the ability to fool people might offer him some hint of security...then again, there've been more than a few times where he's convinced himself that he had no choice at all but to lie. It's confusing to often not feel able to decipher well. Sometimes I feel guilty for assuming that he's probably lying when he isn't!
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luvmydd

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« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2012, 12:18:01 PM »

She got admitted to a psychiatric hospital for a suicide attempt.  During the admission, we were talking about feeling empty & depression, shortly thereafter, it became that she was anorexic (not possible), OCD (again not possible) & schizophrenic (don't think so). This is another example where I just don't see the point.  

This sounds exactly like my daughter.  She said she was anorexic (also not possible), that she used heavy drugs as a freshman (not possible, she never went anywhere) and she recently told a friend of hers that her mother committed suicide, apparently I'm the stepmother (I am the real mother).  My belief is that she wants sympathy and attention on sad/bad things.  She is currently inpatient for suicidal idealization but will be out soon and I plan to tackle this with her therapist because I really believe it's the crux of her issues; she lies, people find out, she looses friends and becomes depressed, and the circle continues.
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ItsNotYou

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It's not you


« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2014, 01:50:04 AM »

I have a uBPD sibling and the stories and accusations are beyond belief. Are they lying? I think now they have been thinking about the scenario and twisting and fabricating the story that they are totally convinced in their own mind that is the truth and so therefore is not a lie to them. As others have written, there usually is a nugget of truth in there which makes it so difficult to refute the accusations. So a situation in which I asked the sibling, "excuse me, can you stand over there please" with a gentle playful grab and pull of a sleeve then years later resurfaced unexpectedly as "you don't remember or you are denying it, you assaulted me and pushed me down the stairs". It's that modicum of truth that gets so well manipulated. So a well meaning intervenor might ask "did you push your sibling"? Well, "No, however I did playfully grab her sleeve to move them" but that just comes out sounding like me down playing that I did indeed push. So then it becomes my word against the uBPD's and I can see the intervenor has doubts about my version of the story and that perhaps I did push my sibling down the stairs. It's so frustrating dealing with all these alternate worlds that populate my sibling's head.

In answer to the original question, is lying common in pwBPD? To the nonBPD lying is common, but I think the pwBPD really believes themselves so to themselves they are not lying. There is a tiny bit of truth in the lie but the context and scale are lost in the details. So for example, closing the front door after a BPD leaves becomes "you kicked me out of the house and slammed the door shut, you're just denying it, quit lying". It's pointless arguing the details because the non-BPD is constantly on the defensive trying to keep up with the ever changing, shifting tale.
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Visitor
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« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 07:49:38 AM »

I would say my ex was emotionally manipulating but she wasn't a liar.

In fact I would say she was TOO honest if that makes any sense. She told me very intimate details way to earl on in our interactions.

Actually on that note I would like to ask a question.

She told me after knowing her for about 2 weeks that she was raped when she was younger. Once while she was held down by another guy and another suspected one when she was passed out drunk.

Could this have been a lie?

Was that too early to tell me or is it me? (I felt a bit uncomfortable. She said she didn't tell anybody about it).

Why did she feel the need to tell me?

Is it true the people with BPD tend to put themselves in precarious situations therefore often suffer sexual assault/abuse?
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