PERSPECTIVES: "Red Flags" and how to choose healthier partners

[Think About It...]

I just responded to another post about the Hater getting worse when you start detaching.  I am not ready for that kind of stuff.  I am too weak and beaten down right now.  But as I get stronger, and more in a position to take her on, I think that is when she will get worse.  I am making progress, make no bones about it.  Her statements such as "I don't belong here", when I was with her at her sick Dad's house, and the whole "You are incapable of being considerate or caring for another person" don't sting like they used to... I now know they are about her, not me.

But a new run of accusations, and putting the destruction of the family on me... ouch... I gotta be a little stronger first.

AG

AG

remember... it's okay to slow down and breath at times...

you can't do it all in one day, one week, one month...
figure out your priorities and take the baby steps...
figure what you can tolerate/handle and what you can't and prioritize that.

relax, breath, and take care of YOU!

bumpy

[Bumpy Road]

I just responded to another post about the Hater getting worse when you start detaching.  I am not ready for that kind of stuff.  I am too weak and beaten down right now.  But as I get stronger, and more in a position to take her on, I think that is when she will get worse.  I am making progress, make no bones about it.  Her statements such as "I don't belong here", when I was with her at her sick Dad's house, and the whole "You are incapable of being considerate or caring for another person" don't sting like they used to... I now know they are about her, not me.

But a new run of accusations, and putting the destruction of the family on me... ouch... I gotta be a little stronger first.

AG

AG

remember... it's okay to slow down and breath at times...

you can't do it all in one day, one week, one month...
figure out your priorities and take the baby steps...
figure what you can tolerate/handle and what you can't and prioritize that.

relax, breath, and take care of YOU!

bumpy

[JubilantOutlook]

Wow!  The first portion of your list, I could have swore I wrote!

Red Flags at the Beginning:

1.  Needy and clingy right off the bat
2.  Difficult to get off the phone with.  He would call on average 15 times a day and not say much other than 'hi.'  Then when I would attempt to get off the phone, he would become enraged and say that I didn't think he was important enough.  Then would have the nerve to tell others that I was rude and would always hang up on him!  This, in 'reality' couldn't be further from the truth.  I would repeatedly have to say, 'Okay, I am hanging up now' for fear of being criticized for not hanging up from an empty conversation 'correctly.'
3.  Jealous  (I was just separating from my husband of 10 years when we met through a mutual friend.  If my soon to be ex and I had a conversation and he knew about it, he would become enraged and say, 'Oh you talked to him?  Well then why don't you just go and be with him then?'
4.  Talked about how all his other partners had ALL cheated on him, but it was okay because they didn't mean anything to him like I do.
5.  Talked about marriage with me within the first couple of weeks despite knowing that I was about to go through a divorce and marriage was the last thing on my mind.
6.  Overly sensitive
7.  Mirrored too much. . . whether it was my interests to the way I spoke, he would and still does emulate me. 
8.  His family (sisters) have cut off all ties with him because of his childish behavior, yet he insists that he doesn't have the problem - they do!
9.  Swore that sex is the end all and be all to a relationship and that it is the ultimate way of God to show a partner how you love them!  This coming from a man - almost 40 years old that had never really had a serious adult relationship in his life.
10.  Would, and still to this day, finds fault with anyone and everyone, except himself. 
11.  Would, and still to this day, make assumptions - always with a negative connotation to them on behalf of others, yet is so indecisive himself, that he looks to others to make decisions for himself.
12.  Early on (and still is) all Me! Me! Me! in his eyes.  Even while going through my gut-wrenching divorce, it was all about how 'he was being neglected and how I didn't love him enough, blah, blah, blah.'  Mind you, I repeatedly encouraged him to date other people and that I was not in that place at this point in my life, but of course he would then follow that up with:
13.  'You're the best thing that has ever happened to me!  I'll never find anyone else is wonderful as you!'  Well if that's the case, then SHUT UP and quit whining so dang much!  Errrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Looking back, mine was not really like the above. 


Early on, I'd say the red flags were:

1.  Needy, a 24/7 presence fairly quickly
2.  Difficult to get off the phone (with me)
3.  Jealous
4.  Talked about how her previous boyfriend lied to her all the time and she was mistrustful
5.  Talked about how she thought she was going to marry her previous boyfriend (highschool relationship)
6.  Overly sensitive
7.  Mirrored too much. . . she just loved everything I loved
8.  Didn't talk to her parents or siblings very often
9.  Brother attempted suicide
10.  Sister ran away from home

Other than that, she was:

- Not sexually promiscous (one sex partner that I was aware of before me)
- Came from a two parent home
- Reported her parents were happily married (learned later about control issues)
- Didn't talk about sexual abuse (learned later about an issue she had as a youngster. . . I don't think it was sexual abuse but I think she kind of thought about it that was, maybe a BPD perception issue)
- Good student
- Talented (music)
- Expressed love for animals
-had always worked from high school on through her first year of college (when I met her). . . had savings
- seemed simple in appearance (no huge amounts of make-up, t-shirt and jeans girl)

[doublebind]

1. Constant phone calling from day one, had to be the one to end the (long) conversation or it meant I was bored with him.

2.  Constant talk of old girlfriends.  (who does this?)

3.  Gaslighting - big time.

4.  Threats to end relationship before it barely got started.

5.  I was always wrong or at fault.

6.  Constant talk of what was wrong with the relationship.

7.  Frequent break-ups, followed by constant phone calling

8.  Constant criticism of male friends, periodically cutting them off with angry phone calls/e-mails for reasons that were all their fault, subsequent reconciliation.

8.  Mechanical about sex

Not much re-engaging, but the gaslighting is epic.  I can't believe the nonsense this man comes up with.

[foiles]

I love when the 'red flags' thread starts up every few months.  My favorite (warped person I am I had to laugh) was from someone that started the thread... something like this...

"What was the very first red flag that something wasn't right?  Mine was when she threatened to stab me in the head."

I have no idea why this strikes me as funny.?  It was just so...  BPD

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[mtn]

Here's mine (just helping to continue the thread  )

1 She had a 4 year plan and would wait for me that long (no! don't wait, lets go)
2 I was perfect (no, not really, cmon)
3 "I have a personality disorder." ( yes, she said it.  I said I dont scare easy.  I blew it off and thought it was a minor issue - needed more awareness!)
4 Had two exes, two children with the first, one with the second.  (yikes, this is complicated...lets take this slow.)
5 Threatened to break off the relationship after discovering I had just separated (now this *is* normal.  But I was up front about it...)
6 Emailed me that she had so much love to offer that she needed 5 husbands and 20 children (wow, thats a lot of love to offer.)
7 Got really pissed when I wouldnt come to work because of snow (we worked together).  She would work from home every Monday.  (I dont understand.  it must be me.)
8 Broke up 4 times.  I patched it up each time.  (Gee, maybe Im codependent)
9 Bankruptcy filed
10  Can't manage money
11  Wants someone else to manage the money
12  Black and white thinking.  We even talked about it - when I said we shouldnt think in terms of "always and never" which was frequently used by her in discussions, she said "I always get to use it, you never do."
13  She always said "Its all about me!"
14  Porn star sex on second date (I was so good, so lewd...I so needed it)
15  Constant checking out guys when I was there and even evaluation with another female coworker who helped spot them.  And I'd get reports when I wasnt there.
16  "I could get any man I wanted...if it weren't for you"  (She loves me...and I need to defend my woman)
17  How she treated her 1st ex - continual bating, "frosting his ass"
18  Brought 1st ex back into house after 2nd left one month into the house mortgage - and initiated the relationship with me while he was still in the house.
19  Left her children at home while we went out for drinks and got home late (This always made me feel unconfortable.)
20  Children slept with her
21  Estranged from her family.  "They dont understand me."  "I wish I had an understanding mom."
22  Attempted suicide in college.
23  1st ex was a stalker.  Slashed my tires three times.  Broke 2nd exes car windows three times.  Stalker actually tracked down my house and did my tires in my garage.  Whoa.
24  2nd ex was Bipolar.
25  "I feel so alone."  "I know I will never be alone because of my children."  "You just want to be alone (after I begged off driving 45 mins to visit her"
26  "You're just using me for sex."  ("gee, no, I love you".  But it sounds like projection to me)
27  "You need to give momma money so I can buy somethings for us"
28  "I need some for the lawyer so I can get rid of 1st ex.  I swear I'll pay you back"
29  Clinically depressed - on meds
30  "I'm fat, old and not good looking anymore".  Later "I mean, who wouldn't want me?" 

I could on...just used, manipulated, guilted and obligated.  Even her friend at work aided in the manipulation "You need to give her lunch money after you get the new job"

I know now...I was way more vulnerable after seperating from a cheating wife.  And Im more than likely codependent.  So...Im in therapy and taking care of my business, not hers.  But, this is not an easy road...but it is best I stay on it.

[Lil_Arch]

majour red flags my way early on.

1. early on in our getting to know each other "I made a decsion we are now dating" ( ok your drunk we will talk about this tomorrow)
2. Will you marry me 2 months in ( i said no) he kept asking
3. after I said yes 3 months in, I get a drunken phone call "Baby I did something really x-x-x-xing stupid please don't hate me, please don't break up with me, I hate myself for this. Me: baby what did you do? him : I kissed Jessica, I am soo sorry, I am comming to see you. Baby don't get in that x-x-x-xing car you are drunk! ding ding ding the car door is open I can hear it. He drives half an hour to my house DRUNK, shows up at my house ( my parents house at the time) With knife in hand that he used to cut his arm to sht, crying and begging me not to leave him. I took the knife away and stayed up all night untill he passed out and then I could sleep I was so worried he would kill himself if I didn't stay.

my friends remind me of number 3 All the time..

[another_guyD]

interesting

~AguyD

[minus3]

What a great thread.
Ah, the memories.
Here's just one for you guys:



My exBPDgf once told me that she thought that it was "hot" when a complete
stranger would make out with her in a club.  Later, she actually did that
while we were at a club together!  It was the first time she cheated on me (well,
the first time I knew about it, at least).

My life is so much better without that kind of crap.

[another_guyD]

There are so many...  a lot I have only recently realized...

1. Statements that everybody uses her.
2. I never heard a complimentary word about some one with out a tear down coming up. Never.
3. Comments that you are the only person who cares and understands me.
4. Accusations that her parents abuse her; then acting like they are heaven sent.
5. She would disappear for long periods of time week to two weeks no contact then return acting like nothing happened.
6. Making fun of my skills and or hobbies.
7. Outings that where supposed to be groups then the groups suddenly disappear.
8. Kicking her mom out of the house and forcing her to walk to airport and fly back 11 hours the same day.
9. Loving kids; but hating kids.
10. Racism agianst anything that was her.
11. Bragged about her honesty, responsibility.
12. Bragged about her intelligence; but failed classes.
13. Huge swings in self image from: I am GOD/perfect to I am worthless.
14. I will kill my baby (unborn) screaming it at me... nuff said.
15. Telling repeatedly about how messed up here family was.
16. Idolizing here grand father whom she bragged loved her grandmother so much that she threatened to kill himself and grandmother if hand wasn't given in marriage.
17. Idolizing my mother then tearing here down within in the same hour.
18. Idolizing me then tearing me down in the same hour.
19. Kept asking; what would you do if I die.
20. Constant EXTREME daily drama; I hate you, I love you...

The sad thing all these were seen before I got married. 

Excuse me will I go back to beating my head against the wall.

~AguyD
 

[mtn]

I remember an old email from my exBPD.  I swear its the penultimate red flag for a BPD.

"You'll leave.  They all do."

Crikies.  And along those lines...she actually told me that her first (yes, first of two husbands/fathers of her children) ex H told her that I would leave her after 6 weeks.

[sweetpea]

mtn...that reminded me of my ex telling me how he was always bracing for people to leave. i didn't understand how that would impact our relationship, but much later i realized it kept him from investing much in people...or he chose people he knew wouldn't be around long so there was no possibility of him getting hurt or being relied on too much.

the biggest red flag early on was the hot and cold faucet routine. i'm now keenly aware of this in people now. i RUN when i see it. i don't understand it away like i used to...oh, he's busy with work, maybe he's stressed out right now, maybe he's scared of getting hurt, etc. unless he tells me straight out that xyz is going down then fine, but if he's on one minute...totally into me, but then pulls back out of the blue without any warning or disappears for days or doesn't do what he said he'll do, i'm long gone at that point.

[another_guyD]

Expect failure => get failure.

Prepare for anything and expect success => no issues.

Ex would pull the everyone leaves me line every once and awhile...

~AguyD

[veryconfused]

What I missed:

She told me that she regreted how she treated me 18 years ago and that she really did love me but she was too stubborn to admit she was wrong and that she didn't remember all the bad things she really did but she knew she did bad things

She told me that she thought about our intimacy and how close we were and that she never really felt like her ex husband or other lovers gave her what I did all those years ago.

She told me I was the love of her life.  We had this great soul connection.  She never loved me like she loved anyone else.

She had an affair on her husband.  Not much info as to when and why at first.  Then, I found he was a co-worker, the affair was still on-going, he read her emails and demanded that she stop talking to me, she opened several new email accounts (I never questioned this, duh), and she would act like she was a victim b/c he wouldn't leave his wife but said he didn't want her to leave her husband, which she did after having her husband's baby.  A six year affair with no dates and only sex twice a month and mostly in the car in the parking lot?  Whoaa, that is all a big red flag!

Starts talking somewhat sexual to me(I am a girl too,by the way, and married to a great husband with two children).  Says she wants intimacy like we had before but that nothing sexual had to happen. And if I agreed to just lay with her and hold her, it would be the best time of her life.

Asked me to move in...?  I said I wasn't gay and not leaving my husband.  But said she wanted us to always be the best of friends and having had such an intense relationship 18 years ago, I missed her and beleived we were soul mates and that just ONE time did not make me gay or would interfere with my marriage.

The one time happened.  She came over the next night.  It happened again...said she wanted a relationship and asked about my feelings.  Once I said I was confused but I loved her and would think about leaving my husband, she went back to the boyfriend(the married guy) and had sex with him and told me that she was just comfortable with him(in a car?) and that our break-up was harder than her divorce and she was just confused b/c she wasn't gay and our feelings were too intense (my fault)?

Pushing and pulling.  When I started moving on with my life, doing things with friends and going places with my family, she would be more attentive and loving and less distant.  When I paid attention to her, she would act offended and become more distant.

[PerfectlyClear]

I have really related to this thread.  I tried to list all the flags, but found they are too many and are ones that everyone else is posting.  Amazing how similar BP's are.  So, instead I soul searched to when I thought the very first red flag appeared.  That was a real eye opener!

Our first "date" (actually I went to his house and watched a movie, he lived across the street)  I only knew him about a week. We were snuggled up watching the movie and of course he was trying to ol' moves, one of the lines he said was "I want to keep you safe".  Wow, what a complete opposite of what he has done in the eight years since.  Looking back, of course, I should have been concerned about a statement like that.  But I believe he intuitively knew how vulnerable I was.  I had been divorced for about a year, was on my own with two kids and no support system.  He said exactly the thing I needed most to hear.  Uncanny.

I am trying to learn to listen to my red flags now.  I do in every other situation but him...

[Steph]

My list:

1) I was plagued with a "too good to be true" sense.
2) BIG emotions
3) Road rage
4) Snaps from one good mood to an evil one in a nanosecond in early relationship. I believed it was about me. It wasnt.
5) His Ex wife and 3 of his 4 kids hate him...in a big way.
6) Most intense, imaginitive, creative sexual partner I have ever had..which lured me in and he cut off after a few years.

[veryconfused]

Tentative One

Isn't it amazing how wondeful they are sexually and how alluring and wondeful it is with them and then wham...no more!  Well, only on their terms and in their moods--which basically shows that they really are incapable of true intimacy and just being in a loving relationship.  It's all about the chase and capturing--after all---that is how they survive and hook us.

[jd+jd]

Wow, VeryConfused and Steph --

You must have known my Ex?  -- sounds just like him!

First red flag after 3 to 4 weeks:  He was playing pool with a buddy, who said something to him that triggered a rage of screaming and ranting and throwing pool stick on the floor in front of a room full of people.  The poor man was mortified and didn't know what hit him.   I watched thinking, "I've never seen this side of him before."  Well, I should have paid close attention because I got to see that side many times after.

About the sex, it was fantastic, and I never got to the point with him where that changed, but in his last relationship, he was with a woman for 12 years, the first six as a couple, and the last six as a boarder in her home.  He said he lost all desire for her as a woman.   She is still his "friend" and he can always count on her for a roof over his head, a place to board his cat and to collect his mail.  I've been present when he spoke to her on the phone, treats her with disdain and disrespect, like a doormat.   She is willing to accept whatever crumbs he offers to have a place in his life. 

Also, his ex-wife of 25 years detests him.  His son will not even speak to him, and other family members seem guarded and "walk on eggshells when we've been around them."

As I've heard Dr. Phil say more than once, "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."  I'm a believer and NC for 3 months now. 

 

[Steph]

 VeryConfused...Yes. its amazing and sad and shattering and when I really let myself think about it, I plain feel like an idiot. Anyway...he decided that emotionally, he felt unsafe, and bam..no more sex. Um...ok..anyway..that was years ago. Yea, sustaining an intimate relationship at that point  - or previously for him, was impossible. Yet, it is what he has always said he wanted most of all.

[guita1ife]

I just deleted my entire list..this is depressing me too much

[veryconfused]

Very true Tentative One.  They sooooo desire and want the intimacy but once they get it they get scared, shut down, and all their defenses start. It is depressing but at least we know what a healthy relationship is really all about.