PERSPECTIVES: "Red Flags" and how to choose healthier partners

[Think About It...]

1)first time at her house..3x3 ft portrait studio picture of her dog above the couch "My beloved Astro"..she tells me she paid $800 for it..and will never love anyone or anything as much as that dog.
  1a. no pictures of family anywhere...many pictures of her from her 'modeling' days (a model..lucky me!)
2)shows me her vibrators within 2 hours of meeting me (a sexually aware model...very lucky me!)
3)tells me she has to have sex every day explaining the toys (a nymphomaniac sexually aware model...I RULE!)
4)invites me to spend the night..the day we meet (BUT "you have to be good, no fooling around")
  4a. asks me as soon as we're in bed...to rub her breasts..but nothing more (what happened to being good?)
5)yrs of childhood physical and sexual abuse by father
6)tells me she didnt see her dad for 5 yrs (Well I'd hope not..because he is a monster!)
  6a. explains she didnt see her dad because he wouldnt let her dog (see 1.) come inside his house (WTH!)
7)tells me all about her female-female relationship over and over  "She has perfect breasts" (ummm HAS?)
8)tells me about the 100s of men she slept with "I didnt know the names of most' (can I handle this...SURE)
9)her little dog sleeps in bed every night, she gets upset at me when I ask the dog be elsewhere during sex.
10)made a paper ring at a restraunt after 2 weeks of dating..says "This is your engagement ring' (KEWL!)
11)wont ever let me off the phone..must talk to her until she falls alseep (I DO have some other things to do!)
12)first rage..she asks me to come over and make dinner..she'll be home by 5pm
    12a. I leave work 4 hrs early, go buy steak, lobster, potatoes, fresh veggies, etc.spend about $150
    12b  get to her place by 3..start cooking my ass off so its on the table by 5
    12c  5 comes and gos...I call her cell at 5:30..no answer  (hmm what do do with this warm food)
    12d  call again at 6:30...no answer (I am confused now...and all this food)
    12e just after 7 she arrives, I ask "did you forget about dinner?", she says "No I was visiting with my clients"
    12f I say "for 2 hours...when you asked me to make you dinner by 5?"
    12g She knocks a plate off the table..food everywhere..dishes breaking.."Dont EVER ask me what time I'm getting home again, it's not like I owe you any explanation.  And I didnt KNOW you were making a real nice dinner.I didnt ask you to do THAT.."..then she goes and starts banging her forehead into the wall screaming "GET OUT, GET OUT now"  (I'm in shock!)
13) throwing her engagement ring during rages..then saying "i wont wear that again until YOU put it back on my finger.  (but I'm not the one who took it off!)
14)acting totally creepy around her father (the monster) in person...sitting on his lap..talking like a little girl
    14a later telling me she wants to kill him for what he did to her   (the words and actions dont match at ALL)
15) totally dysfunctional FOO
16) ran away at 14..tells me she's lived in more places than she can remember
17) alot of drug abuse in her past..she didnt do that anymore ..then asks me if I'll get high on our wedding night (NO I wont!)
18) always bragging about fights she got into.."I just keep hitting till I see blood"
19) bragged about loving the taste of raw meat "the bloodier the better"
20) practiced witchcraft as a teen..tells me she KNOWS several people got hurt because of her spells
21) tells me she talks to her dead freinds though her dreams
22) says she's Catholic..but never went to confession or first communion (how does that work?)
23) starts saying "I hate ALL men", "I will never depend on a MAN", "All men do is f--k up my life"
24) tells me "sex is just sex...its never about love..its about orgasms..and everyone loves orgasms"
25) I havent drank in 18 yrs...she spits a mouthful of jeager in my mouth and wont let me pull away
     25a she was delighted with herself..I feel like I was just raped
26)...189) too depressing to type it all...and all this before we got married and the real HATING started.

And I told myself SHE was the woman of my dreams..and commited my life to making her happy.

Can I go bang my forhead into a brick wall now...or is that too BPD-ish?

[guita1ife]

1)first time at her house..3x3 ft portrait studio picture of her dog above the couch "My beloved Astro"..she tells me she paid $800 for it..and will never love anyone or anything as much as that dog.
  1a. no pictures of family anywhere...many pictures of her from her 'modeling' days (a model..lucky me!)
2)shows me her vibrators within 2 hours of meeting me (a sexually aware model...very lucky me!)
3)tells me she has to have sex every day explaining the toys (a nymphomaniac sexually aware model...I RULE!)
4)invites me to spend the night..the day we meet (BUT "you have to be good, no fooling around")
  4a. asks me as soon as we're in bed...to rub her breasts..but nothing more (what happened to being good?)
5)yrs of childhood physical and sexual abuse by father
6)tells me she didnt see her dad for 5 yrs (Well I'd hope not..because he is a monster!)
  6a. explains she didnt see her dad because he wouldnt let her dog (see 1.) come inside his house (WTH!)
7)tells me all about her female-female relationship over and over  "She has perfect breasts" (ummm HAS?)
8)tells me about the 100s of men she slept with "I didnt know the names of most' (can I handle this...SURE)
9)her little dog sleeps in bed every night, she gets upset at me when I ask the dog be elsewhere during sex.
10)made a paper ring at a restraunt after 2 weeks of dating..says "This is your engagement ring' (KEWL!)
11)wont ever let me off the phone..must talk to her until she falls alseep (I DO have some other things to do!)
12)first rage..she asks me to come over and make dinner..she'll be home by 5pm
    12a. I leave work 4 hrs early, go buy steak, lobster, potatoes, fresh veggies, etc.spend about $150
    12b  get to her place by 3..start cooking my ass off so its on the table by 5
    12c  5 comes and gos...I call her cell at 5:30..no answer  (hmm what do do with this warm food)
    12d  call again at 6:30...no answer (I am confused now...and all this food)
    12e just after 7 she arrives, I ask "did you forget about dinner?", she says "No I was visiting with my clients"
    12f I say "for 2 hours...when you asked me to make you dinner by 5?"
    12g She knocks a plate off the table..food everywhere..dishes breaking.."Dont EVER ask me what time I'm getting home again, it's not like I owe you any explanation.  And I didnt KNOW you were making a real nice dinner.I didnt ask you to do THAT.."..then she goes and starts banging her forehead into the wall screaming "GET OUT, GET OUT now"  (I'm in shock!)
13) throwing her engagement ring during rages..then saying "i wont wear that again until YOU put it back on my finger.  (but I'm not the one who took it off!)
14)acting totally creepy around her father (the monster) in person...sitting on his lap..talking like a little girl
    14a later telling me she wants to kill him for what he did to her   (the words and actions dont match at ALL)
15) totally dysfunctional FOO
16) ran away at 14..tells me she's lived in more places than she can remember
17) alot of drug abuse in her past..she didnt do that anymore ..then asks me if I'll get high on our wedding night (NO I wont!)
18) always bragging about fights she got into.."I just keep hitting till I see blood"
19) bragged about loving the taste of raw meat "the bloodier the better"
20) practiced witchcraft as a teen..tells me she KNOWS several people got hurt because of her spells
21) tells me she talks to her dead freinds though her dreams
22) says she's Catholic..but never went to confession or first communion (how does that work?)
23) starts saying "I hate ALL men", "I will never depend on a MAN", "All men do is f--k up my life"
24) tells me "sex is just sex...its never about love..its about orgasms..and everyone loves orgasms"
25) I havent drank in 18 yrs...she spits a mouthful of jeager in my mouth and wont let me pull away
     25a she was delighted with herself..I feel like I was just raped
26)...189) too depressing to type it all...and all this before we got married and the real HATING started.

And I told myself SHE was the woman of my dreams..and commited my life to making her happy.

Can I go bang my forhead into a brick wall now...or is that too BPD-ish?

[rswwd]

Can I go bang my forhead into a brick wall now...or is that too BPD-ish?

The wall, much like your wife, could care less.  So you might as well not.

[tryingtogetoverhim]

Well I was only with him for nine months but here are some red flags that I should...

first date..
1) tried to have sex with me in his car ( we are both in our early forties)
2) badmouthing ex on our first date ( called her the c word)
3) showed me wedding pic of them and asked me would I bang her if I were man?
4) had sex at age nine, told me and acted like it was normal
5) I touched his cheek once well tapped it and he went nuts...
6) pulled covers off him once and he went crazy and told me sleep was sacred and to disturb him
7) was very weird during sex...called me good girl and was manic, told me i made him crazy
8) was very particular about things ie: how his underwear was folder..etc.
9) perceived everyone who wasn't Catholic was against Catholics, he claimed to be religious yet never went to church, he claimed this was an issue in his marriage.
10) was hesitant at first to claim any feelings then he was always calling me and asking if I loved him
11) would go crazy when we talked about his ex wife..said she was a lunatic that was going to ruin the rest of his life
12) seemed to not be able to get along with anyone
13) had issues with drugs in his past
14) not nice to his kids yet said he would kill himself if kept from them

[amayseng]

dear God it is like reading my own thoughts hahaha...
1.first intimate experiece, cried, asked if i thought she was fat, ran away, came back, ran away and came back.
2.  control control control, call a hundred times a day, mad if i didnt answer or call a hundred times also
3.  bossy, manipulative, overly aggressive to be so close, over inviting herself into everything of my life and my sons, and family..
4.  love me  or hate me, i saw this first with her friends, if they werent doing what she wanted it was hell
5.  dad figure was a hero, although she never told me he cheated on her mom, they divorced and got back together as her mom died of cancer.
6.  weird childish relationship with dad...made him a hero..
7.  hated my achievments, when my dad told baseball stories or my success she would be mad and jealous
8.  overly open about past sexual activity, not respectful
9.  wanted to get married after 6 months of dating, loved me after a few weeks, was in love after a few months.
10.  got married and then bailed started living the single life, never home or did family activities..
11.  complain complain complain, always sick, or hurting or something.
12.  too good to be true
13.  freak out in stessful situations or high traffic
14.  unstable, illogical, no reason or concern for anyone else
15  sits in front of the mirror for an hour putting lotion on every day, let alone make-up
16.  wears a ton of make-up and teases hair to walk around the gym for two hours but doesnt workout

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[another_guyD]

23) starts saying "I hate ALL men", "I will never depend on a MAN", "All men do is f--k up my life"

To many times, I must have heard this 1,500 in my marriage of 1 year.
Directed not just at me, at my son, her father, proffs, uncles etc.

~AguyD

[amayseng]

yes, i got the "i dont need a man"  thing like a million times...
when in reality, no one needs anyone, they are together because they want to be.
just like her and i got married, i married because of love and a life together, not because i had to depend on her or NEED a woman...i did 28 years on my own b4 her which included raising my son on my own for 7 years...

they just do not get it...

we are all trying to rationalize something irrational...

[Chili]

My daughter keeps telling me I “need” a rich man. But I think she’s just wanting a rich step-daddy. I don’t want to ever “need” somebody but I have to admit, making ends meet is tough right now.

[bfd58po]

What about this red flag. My Possibly bpexgf tells the new guy she is seeing now that i could not have treated her any better .Should the new fella take this as a red flag. This is the second time in 8 months she has left at the drop of a hat.This is just the tip of the iceberg as i get more acquainted i with the forum i will ask more and tell more

[taralita]

In all honesty, I am too embarrassed to even mention some of the red flags.  Some of them were football field sized. 

I also did not pay heed to his mother or his two closest (ex)friends who told me how he destroyed some women before me and other issues that would make anyone, and I mean anyone run in the other direction.   

That I still love this person, that I stubbornly try to fix him and think I am somehow magical in that way speaks more to MY red flag.  I sometimes don't know if he saw them clearly and new what he was gravitating towards or if he, too, stubbornly hoped that this relationship would turn out differently and he didn't see MY co dependent red flags.

That I did not heed drug addiction, infidelity, the diagnosed mental health issues, living with parents on living room floor at age of 38, inability to work a steady job...so on. Yeah, somehow I chose to miss those red flags until the flagpole hit me in the ass.  Then I noticed.

[dusk]

Mine were:
1) First night we met, was at my house and my 2 good friends. We got very drunk.. I was to the point of being sick, (yuk) yet he still had sex with me although I did not know what I was doing. He took advantage of me. Also told me I was the woman of his dreams.
2)relationship moved very quickly.
3) Had been married twice before and engaged once. They all cheated on him
4) I felt guilty about (1) and he said all the 'right things' to make it better
5) was extremely jealous and possessive
6) terrible relationship with mother
7) dysfunctional family
8 Lied to me about a MAJOR thing. told me sobbing, so what could I do but forgive him?
9) loved me one day, would not speak to me for no apparent reason the next
10)after a fight (about I don't know what!) he would act like nothing had happened
11) totally irrational
12) hated women and said so, so many times ( and I stayed to show him we weren't all the same.. yeah right!)
13)very chauvinistic
14) if we disagreed, the argument would go on for days and he would demand that I agreed, and apologised or we were over.
15)Believed that the way middle eastern men treated women was a good thing. All about control. Said, 'it works' (the system)
16) told me he tried to stab his mother when she was sleeping when he was five (FIVE?)
17)told me he knocked his mother out with a piece of wood while she was hanging out washing when he was 15yo
18) totally IDOLISED his son. He could do NO wrong.
19) told me weird things like, he was COMPLETELY responsible for his son being here. Like his exw didn't even carry him or give birth to him. (the things he said were SOOOOO weird. almost like a woman had nothing to do with him being here.)
19)everything that was wrong in his relationships was never his fault. He was the victim, always treated so badly.
20) started off by loving my family and friends, then later on hating them for small transgressions.
21) never got over anything. Brought up every argument over and over
22) tried to alienate me from every friend I had
24) would not let me get my eyebrows waxed or eyelashes tinted. Said it meant I was out there looking for attention or other men

And there's so much more!
What a hard lesson to learn, never again. But now I fall into the category of being married twice, someone to watch out for. so sad.

[nickfixed]

1. Was physically,mentally emotionally, verbally, and sexually abused by family.

2. Always been cheated on.

3. Fell in love with me real fast.

4. Real clingy.

5. No friends.

6. Single mother.

[another_guyD]

1. Was physically,mentally emotionally, verbally, and sexually abused by family.

2. Always been cheated on.

3. Fell in love with me real fast.

4. Real clingy.

5. No friends.

6. Single mother.

Ditto here except for the single mother part... (i guess that was my contribution...  )

~AgD

[ozman19]

Mine would be:

Only one close (and ugly) girlfriend.
Lots of guy friends, that I could tell were not just interested in being friends, like she told me.
Instant issues with my close girlfriends.
Drinking until she passed out, when you're 30!
Instant double-standards.
No talk or interesting stories about her life - she'd mention the ex husband but no interesting events - I know now it was to reveal as little as possible.  Everything prior to me was very vague and mysterious.
When I first meet her friend, I learn she's been hiding some stuff from me ie work issues, ex bf pissed, etc.
The comment that she really wants to change everything in her life, b/c of me...
The hatred she carried for some of the people in her life, and the lack of wanting to reconcile and/or forgive.
A huge emphasis on hair and make-up - always making us late.
No real interests or hobbies.

[Mousse]

6. Single mother.

Ouch, Nick    but I'm guessing you are saying that in the context of all the other crap - at least I hope so...I don't want to be seen as a red flag.  But I will say, that some of these flags apply to me (as they probably do to a lot of us) - I fall "in love" quickly, make plans for forever, even if only in my head... but am trying to get over that.  Also, I never pressured men to commit to me - instead I would say frankly that I saw a future there - but still, it was often less than a month into it. 

I always considered myself the "passionate" type - easy to bed, easy to love, marriage, babies, why not?  This was all years ago, before my marriage (aka the BIG WHY NOT!) - and I learn from my mistakes.  I just hope that when I am in a relationship, I'm not so reserved that I lose some of that passion and spontaneity.  I do believe it's my nature, and it's who I want to be - with the right man.

[eDave]

mousse,

You won't lose it.  Rarely do we seek change and go completely the other way.  It will just be tempered.

[Karma Police]

Yeah, I'm going to have to weigh in on the "single mother as " issue.  Some of us (as well as single fathers--of which are many on these boards) happen to be tres-cool.  That was one of the things xBPDbf held over my head.  He once had the nuts to tell a mutual acquaintance that he thought I made the decision to be a mother (I was not living with the father and was finishing my masters degree at the time) too flippantly.

Bloody hell.  If making the conscious choice to bring a life into the world sans another parent makes us "tainted" goods, then I may as well bugger off.  Personally, I rather think it's changed my world for the better.  I know that she is better off without him in her life 24/7.

[Betsy]

There are many helpful discussions on the site having to do with the importance of getting to know ourselves, and learning what experiences from our pasts may have motivated us to either make or stay with the wrong choices.  For some people it may be co-dependent behaviors, for others, general low self esteem, or other reasons.  As people have also mentioned, people with BPD can be quite talented at appearing to be mature, healthy potential partners for at least a short time, until the non has invested a good amount of time and energy and interest in the new relationship.  Then, of course, the bomb is dropped.   Can you all suggest anything possible to look for in the first few dates with a new person, which might ferret out any potential mental health issues before we get involved (remembering how good many are at hiding these issues), without appearing ourselves to be interrogating our new dates.  I am asking these questions now, especially to try to help myself feel hope for progress, and hope that there can be a good life after the damage done.  I have been really depressed, and feeling really vulnerable to re-engages that have already come my way (I've resisted for the most part, but I am really lonely, and now with the holidays, I am not sure that I am strong enough to avoid giving in.  I keep thinking of how affectionate he was at times, and it is really hard not to want it back (despite knowing the risk).  I am trying to be honest about my weakness, but am feeling rather foolish for even having thoughts of giving in.  If any of you can think of an example of a date (you or a friend went on), where red flags were evident, or questions (in an appropriate range) to ask that might give clues.  I want to at least think about dating again, as worried as I am about ending up with another man with mental instabilities.  I've been hit with a number of difficult things in the past few weeks, along with trying to keep my distance from my BPD man (housemate).  I am trying to find my balance again.  I feel very inarticulate, and at a loss for words, and it has been a long time since I've felt so lost.  Thanks you all.  Betsy

[msok]

Hi Betsy,

Hang in there and be strong! You deserve, and will find, someone much better! "It's better to be alone than wish you were"

I remember vividly the clues that I ignored, but now seem so telling. Within a few dates he began trying to stress me out by giving me a time to be ready then changing it to much earlier. Seemed weird at the time but now I know it was to get me used to being controlled. He was never easygoing at any change in plans and took it as an affront. He exhibited signs of extreme jealousy, control, possessiveness, and trying to monopolize my time and cut down my "friend time". I think the main thing I will look for is an easygoing attitude when faced with altering or changing what HE wants to do.

I don't know if these are signs of BPD or just an abuser?

My friend bought me this t-shirt: "It's better to have loved and lost than to live with the psycho the rest of your life".

Please don't go back just because you are lonely!

[MathCoreChick]

   Can you all suggest anything possible to look for in the first few dates with a new person, which might ferret out any potential mental health issues before we get involved (remembering how good many are at hiding these issues), without appearing ourselves to be interrogating our new dates. 

dont be in a hurry for them to know all of you, or for you to know all of them.

[mtn]

I think Mathy is on to something.

I think I've posted this before...

But, have you ever come across people who seem to be the opposite of toxic?  There's a strange, zen-like calmness about them.  They smile warmly and seem to laugh without laughing. 

They seem to be able to repel toxic people.  Like oil and water.  As if the toxic person knows this person sees them for who and what they are.  The toxic person tries to poke their way into this person's life, but it doesnt happen...and its seemingly without effort.

Ive met several people like this.  Some are friends, some are acquaintances.

they don't seem needy...their lives are full and they seem to have this inate ability to only allow good, balanced people in their lives.  People that add to their lives.

For me, these zen masters are role models.  I think Im getting there.  I may be alone, but I think being alone is better than being with a negative or toxic person.  I have myself...and while Im willing to share myself with others and include them in my life, I think Im a little more...selective. 

I've always been an includer...But, I think I can still be that...keep my boundaries solid.  I probably won't reach out to people who seem unbalanced, or toxic or...just a little off.  They can (and may) reach out to me...but I have choices.  And I recognize that I always have choices in who I include in my life. 

Perhaps this sounds selfish and protective.  I think it is.  Life is too short to go through another BPD episode or any other toxic adventure.  I don't need just anyone in my life...but people who shine and add to my life.  And there are many people in this world who fit this bill.

So...perhaps an answer to the question could be...what kind of people associate with this prospective person in your life?  do they set off any red flags?  I think its about not looking squarely at this person, but those around that person.  Perhaps those relationships are telling.  Certainly, I think familial relationships have become more important to me now.

Im still working on my spidey sense.  So for now...rushing to include someone in your life is more about you (us nons) than it is about spotting a bad apple.  I think if we let people prove who they are - and we are conscious beings and paying attention - we'll have those people in our lives that stick and add to our experience.