POLL: Silence: The Ultimate Control - Dorothy M. Neddermeyer, PhD

[joiesophie]

Thank you! I needed to read this now...

And now a word of thanks, from my favorite mascot...

Where would I be without your help?

 

js

[Up From Here]

  This is an excellent article and illustrates in all points, how I lived.  One of the repercussions I have come to realize is that I would look at articles and workshops like these and begin taking my own inventory (essentially a good thing...right?) yet I would do so in the ways that my ex would project from herself...back on to me.

i.e.

Read article and...

Point A (omg that's what she says I am)

Point B (same)

and so on.

I'm seeing how damaged I had become in this.  I'm now seeing things not only to dig within myself but also just trying to look at the facts as though I'm looking objectively at two people I care about.

Question:

I can see that intentionally not being communicative with my SO except to make her worry, as being abusive.  How about in the case where my SO has been consistently verbally abusive to me, and I withdraw refusing to discuss it, because my boundary has been violated so many times.  Am I being abusive in return?

Yes my ex was very abusive.  Point made.

True and fair enough, I was verbally abusive at times too. 

When she would be screaming, stopping only long enough to interrupt and redirect my replies to an issue she wasn't screaming about until after I did reply, physically trying to restrain me and making paragraphs of different issues into one sentence by injecting the word "and" where a period should go.  I did yell things like "God, would you just shut the (word) up."  I'm not in defense of it nor am I proud of it even in this scenario but I did learn allot about who I don't want to be in this life.

Verbal abuse and the silent treatment were things we both participated in so it gets pretty tough to point fingers.  I guess I feel that I could lend my own legitimacy if I had walked away from it "the first time" instead of staying in the relationship to participate in the dance...which is what I did.

When verbal/non-verbal abuse is intentionally, and with forethought of malice used to manipulate and control that's another story imo.  I wasn't interested in damaging my former.  I just wanted it all to stop.  I guess that's a form of being controlling too as I'm not taking the responsibility to walk away instead of engaging because short of a T-90 (Tank) nothing was going to stop the war between us and at times I was that Tank.  Again, not good.   

So...when I did walk away...when I couldn't find a kind word in my head for what was going on between us, I got silent.  I couldn't speak a kind word without it all starting back up nor could I speak a harsh word without hating myself for it and simply saying "please stop" never stopped anything.  I even tried saying "I love you" in the midst of some of her most abusive episodes which was only met with bitter, venomous, sarcasm.

I don't think going silent in order to calm things down is abuse as much as it is a sign of emotional damage.  Maybe I'm wrong here and if I am I'd really like to know.  In the end, I had almost nothing left to say and it really had nothing to do with controlling her but everything to do with controlling myself while trying to find a way out of what was like living in hell to me...to us both.

As going silent is concerned, I guess (and it is only a guess) it will depend on one of two agendas in an abusive home. 

One would be an agenda to stop the abuse and that if the abusive person can't be stopped then only my participation in it can and in the extreme...I had nothing left to say.

The other agenda would be an agenda to perpetuate the control and manipulation; emotional blackmail to get the other person to bend to the will of their partner.  It's a "want" driven motivation and not a "care" driven one.

Thank you and peace, UFH

[C12P21]

I enjoyed this article. For years I was treated with the silent treatment and completely ignored, unless my ex husband controlled the conversation. It was devastating to my sense of self and self esteem. When I returned to college, I was afraid to join in on class discussions due to self doubt.
For years I made excuses for his behavior "he is a quiet person, he is shy".  One time at a Christmas party, his drunken secretary was at our table telling everyone what a wonderful listener he was and offered so many insights and was a very compassionate and empathetic man. It was the one of those moments where I knew something was terribly wrong but there was no framework to understand the behavior. This article is validating to read. I think back on how confused I was and am thankful I am no longer in the marriage. I feel so free and thankful I left.

[Married2WFO]

I'm struggling with this right now.  I know there were times when I had been so hurt and frightened that I withdrew into a little cocoon and the last two years of our marriage I'd spent alot of time in there.  He was drinking, spending more money than we had, angry at me all the time and claiming I was the source of all our problems.  It seemed like every time we tried to talk it was a diatribe of how I had changed and not for the better and he needed more (attention, sex, money, respect, the list goes on).  I've been seeing a therapist for a year now and we are working on my issues, but to hear him talk about it, he was being mentally abused when I crawled into my shell.  I wasn't doing it to hurt him, I was doing it to protect me.

But while I'm trying to protect me, I'm also hurting him.  So is is possible I WAS the cause of some of the lunacy?

[nnote]

Well,
What about the times when you know , "everything you say will and shall be used against you"?
I spent plenty of times not speaking a word to my stbxbpdw, because I knew just one word would send her into rampaging.
Yes, it was silent treatment, but to protect myself.

[whiletheseasonspass]

This is an excellent article and addresses exactly what I deal with re: my BPD daughter.  She has verbally abused me for years with both words and the silent treatment. 

Meanwhile connected to what this article explains so clearly- was the fact that besides being exhausted and hurt by her verbal abuse - I also ALWAYS have had hanging over my head 24/7/365 - the FEAR    that my D would cut me out of her life and that is one reason why I have put up with her verbal abuse for years.  I doubt this is a new concept. 

My D has cut me out of her life on and off and each time it felt was so UNFAIR and I felt devastated and was in disbelief.  And when she "took me back"  I would go on allowing her to continue verbally abusing me  ? because I wanted to be in her life and I kept hoping she would change if she could only realize how much I love her.

Having said that I VERY recently was able to let go of the FEAR of her cutting me out.  That fear was very draining so now I do not have the FEAR- and I know that not having the FEAR does not = the fact that she could cut me out- she has on and off.  Still I feel a gain ofsome energy back from the way my FEAR of her cutting me out has taken a toll on me BUT...

 I was/ am still left with  - what is in the article was/ is still whirling in my mind- the way I put up with her verbal abuse - some of it is silence - some has been actual words.  Putting up with verbal abuse is terrible-because as the article says there is no way to have a rational discussion about such a thing with a BP.  But I have put up with her verbal abuse because of my Fear that she would cut me out again if I made waves with her.  Now that Fear is gone so where does that leave me?  I don't know yet. 

All I know is that I have used much of my energy living with her abuse (she does not live with me presently) and I was/ have been/ am drowning it -the pain of her verbal abuse- until I am aching in my bones- I am still suffering from years of that...the pain of it all- the energy used up from suffering- how many years taken off my life.  My own daughter! 

But nonetheless- I went for a walk and came home and came to this site and here it was in black and white- maybe what the next leg of my journey will be about- i.e. understanding what has been going on...the way she abuses me.  I feel validated by this article.  I see in the article what she exactly has been doing.  And maybe now seeing will be believing as even though I have said it out loud to my support system and wrote it in posts on one of the boards that she takes out all of her angst on me - that I am her scapegoat- I for some reason did not exactly believe it

But...now it is time to work on this- to start believing that she DOES verbally abuse me...  it was as if I was SUSPECTING that she was verbally abusing me (strange as that sounds) instead of BELIEVING it.  Now it is time to learn to BELIEVE IT!  I am bookmarking this article! 

Thank you

[pk]

OOOOhhhh!  This is my question exactly.

Question:

I can see that intentionally not being communicative with my SO except to make her worry, as being abusive.  How about in the case where my SO has been consistently verbally abusive to me, and I withdraw refusing to discuss it, because my boundary has been violated so many times.  Am I being abusive in return?

when he has pushed alllllllllll of my buttons and I am ready to blow up, sometimes I will just be quiet because anything that pops out of my mouth right then cannot be good.  I don't want to yell and scream because that is how his mother caused his emotional problems and sometimes I am pretty sure that is the reaction he wants from me.   I want to discuss the problem when my mind is clearer and I am not steaming mad so I will take a break and take a nap, walk away, turn up the TV and tell him I really want to watch this show- whatever to collect myself.  (by the way, I have found out the hard way that if I leave the house my BPDh takes it as abandonment, again reminds him of mom walking out and not returning for days when he was 5)

I had not intended this to be emotional abuse but I was trying not to escalate the situation.
Now I am confused.

[calmx]

Wow - thankyou. I am enjoying a silent periods often lately. And I appreciate the insight. The silent treatment usually starts with "shut the f**ck up". And he often contrasts the silent with happy phonecalls to friends. I am going to double my focus not to take it personal and that I should consider myself alone during these times.

[innerspirit]

Used to call it "Michigan J. Frog" behavior after the old Warner Brothers cartoon -- you know, how the "Hello My Baby" singing-and-dancing frog would shut down on cue whenever an audience appeared, much to the dismay of the manager.

Well STBXH adored the public spotlight but would deflate the moment the spotlight turned off, when it was just me and him, when we weren't around others anymore.  The switch would go off immediately, like the instant we dropped off our friends at the end of some social outing -- sorry, no energy left anymore for interaction with me.  (And this from a guy who always complained we didn't have enough of a social life.)

And yeah, the tone would automatically perk back up again if he saw something funny on TV or if he were on the phone with someone else -- wouldn't ever want to show them that darker side of course, not from such a nice guy.

What a darned easy way to act out towards me.

I got tired of trying to energize us or him, and after a while, would just talk to myself and tell myself jokes.  Then he'd complain that I was mumbling, not loud enough for him to hear.  Whatever. 

[mssalty]

I never realized I was in a verbally abusive relationship. until I came here.    I just assumed I was inadequate as a spouse, never finding the right words, reactions, thoughts, justifications for anything I ever did.   I spent my life with parents who argued but made up, and who, when they would treat me badly, would realize it and apologize. 

Oddly, living in a normal world didn't prepare me for noticing that things were abnormal in my current relationship.    I assumed that everyone had natural empathy and ultimately desired relationships in which friction wasn't the only constant.   

With every abusive comment, shifting of the truth, lie, crazy making statement, fight, silent treatment, refusal to apologize or treat me like a human until I apologized (regardless of fault), and halfassed apology that began with "I'm sorry but..." I assumed that I was the one who couldn't make things right, so I drove myself nuts, with only my gut and subconscious screaming "THIS ISN'T RIGHT". 

I realized in the past year that the verbal abuse had lasting effects.   I lost my self confidence, I lost my ability to process information rationally, I lost my compassion, and my psyche has shifted to being depressed and unhappy. 

[Carnelian]

as a newby to this site I have learned so much about my BPD husband I loved the article and just like mssalty I found myself apologizing for everything, have lost alot of confidence.  Even now he is vascilating beween his mistress and whether to be with me but can't say what he wants so switches the mobile off and I'm sure he is doing that with her too.  No remorse for the situation either so I cut and pasted the article for him and he can read it at leasure.  Thank goodness for this support group it is allowing me to understand more about what has been going on for 20 years and how awful it must have been for him as a child

Looking forward to growing in strength and moving out of the fog 

[Auspicious]

Question:

I can see that intentionally not being communicative with my SO except to make her worry, as being abusive.  How about in the case where my SO has been consistently verbally abusive to me, and I withdraw refusing to discuss it, because my boundary has been violated so many times.  Am I being abusive in return?

Yes, good question ... I can't help it, articles like this always set off my "warning, warning" system. Having been accused at one time of "emotional abuse" ... by my dBPDw.

A BPD could easily read this article and come away thinking that they are the victim.

[innerspirit]

Hi Auspicious and Arjay --- Unfortunately my STBHX had such a big dose of paranoia/narcissism thrown into the mix that he could read (or read into) most anything and consider himself the victim.  I see your point about the article, but victimization seems to be just a basic part of the illness as least as far as my X was concerned.  There could be no supposed "payback" of the silent treatment however justifiable on my part.  And often, after my attempts to talk things out had failed -- again -- distancing would often be the most civil choice I had to protect myself.  When he was in Martyr mode, it was all about him.  In fact, given his History with a capital H (as opposed to mine), he was the one allowed to use the word "abuse" and only on his terms.
Yeah I'm feeling feisty today.  And sad, wishful again that he would have read something to turn on the "aha-moment" lightbulb.

[arjay]

... wishful again that he would have read something to turn on the "aha-moment" lightbulb.

Something we all "wished" would happen "one day".  I quit "wishing" my friend, when I realized BPD was an illness and not just someone having a series of "bad hair days", something I naively thought for a long, long time.

Peace

[Auspicious]

I guess my concern is that the word "abuse" is both very highly charged, and frequently unhelpful. 

Like a big, very poorly calibrated gun or something. That randomly shoots either blanks or high explosives.

OK, I can't think of a good metaphor. That one sucks. But the thought remains

[innerspirit]

Good points, both Arjay and Auspicious.
Good analogy, to connect wishing and bad hair days.  I still get caught in that -- sure boils down to the Serenity Prayer doesn't it? 

And good analogy, actually, about the big out-of-control gun shooting whatever it would at the moment -- marshmallows or dirty bombs.  Abuse is a very highly charged word.  In our case, STBXH insisted on his exclusive right to use the word about his experience, as a victim, past/present/future.

I guess I'm still butting my head up against the things I can't change or control.  Sigh.  Sometimes I still catch myself wanting Utter Vindication.  But that would be black-and-white thinking wouldn't it?

[splitheart]

my wife gives my son (her step son) the silent threatment almost every day... unless he speaks to her first in a very clear & direct way so that she can't possibly ignore him.

she never says good morning, good night, hello, good bye... she'll often talk about him to be when he's right there in the room as if he's not even there...

so would my wife's actions be verbal abuse?

[survivorof2]

I've been NC for 5 years now with uBPD parents. Been somewhat puzzled by one thing. Parents kidnapped me and my kids many years ago and I got away from them 5 years ago...long story. There was so much control, verbal abuse, physical abuse, and even some sexual abuse. When I got out of their house and away from them, they stopped contacting me completely. Don't BPD's keep trying to contact? Is this the silent treatment (another form of abuse) they are trying to inflict on me? Sometimes the absence of healthy parents is overwhelming and I feel like an orphan at times.

But is this the silent treatment you speak of or something else altogether? Parents do still have contact with my kids: now 21 and 23.

Thanks.

[Auspicious]

When I got out of their house and away from them, they stopped contacting me completely. Don't BPD's keep trying to contact?

Not always ... sometimes they paint you permanently black in their mind.

Is this the silent treatment (another form of abuse) they are trying to inflict on me?

Usually their actions aren't even really about us. They are about their own internal pain and turmoil.

Is it possible that you seeing their silence as active, directed, abuse toward you is a way for you to picture at least some connection with them?

[survivorof2]

Usually their actions aren't even really about us. They are about their own internal pain and turmoil.

Yes, I am slowly beginning to understand this.

Is it possible that you seeing their silence as active, directed, abuse toward you is a way for you to picture at least some connection with them?

This is an interesting question and I am trying to think about it from all sides. This is not the first time they have been silent towards me, but the longest. I guess it is most puzzling why they continue to have contact with our kids who look so much like me and have similiar mannerisms: why not reject the offspring also? When I realized that they really have been rejecting me all my life, it was quite painful and I grieved. But I feel like my grieving is about over. I AM realizing that it has more to do with them and not me. That they don't reject me because I am undeserving of their love, but because of who they are. By the way, I am not the only relative that they have "cut off" for years at a time. uBPDm's sis has been cut off for 15 years.

I do not desire a connection with uBPD parents. My son recently told me that "you have more to learn from your parents"    Quite a shock to hear this from him. I assumed that it was actually a near quote from uBPD parents. I am much more careful what I tell my son now, knowing that he is in regular contact by phone with them. He also said that he was enjoying getting to know them better.

I have gotten SO much healthier in so many areas in my life since I went NC and uBPD parents (and sisters, nieces, nephews followed the FOO mandate). It has been painful as I tried to love all of them while I was still around them, even my uBPD parents. Thanks for the reply.