Some thoughts for co-parenting w/ a BPD from a daughter of a BPD

[Think About It....]

I know this may sound harsh - but I will say I don't think it's entirely unfair to attempt to get sole custody of your child/children and only allow supervised visitation w/ diagnosed BPD parents (your ex) who are not progressing healthily through a treatment program.

I am now 28 years old and dealing with a whole new kind of anger. Not at my BPD mother, but at my father and stepmother who didn't protect me from her. Will the child/ren miss their BPD parent? Assuredly. But that missing will probably mess them up a lot less than joint custody.

I know parenting and custody battles are tricky, and it's a long process to ever try to get sole custody of a kid, especially if the BPD parent is the mother. But unless the BPD parent commits to a treatment program as a first priority in order to be a fit parent, I don't think it is safe for the child/ren to be alone with him/her.

Maybe this is just my experience. I loved my mother dearly, and I would have surely been crushed if my dad fought for sole custody of me when I was 3 years old. But he also would have saved from years and years of pathological dysfunction. And saved me from thousands of dollars in bills for therapy!

[daughterofbp79]

I know this may sound harsh - but I will say I don't think it's entirely unfair to attempt to get sole custody of your child/children and only allow supervised visitation w/ diagnosed BPD parents (your ex) who are not progressing healthily through a treatment program.

I am now 28 years old and dealing with a whole new kind of anger. Not at my BPD mother, but at my father and stepmother who didn't protect me from her. Will the child/ren miss their BPD parent? Assuredly. But that missing will probably mess them up a lot less than joint custody.

I know parenting and custody battles are tricky, and it's a long process to ever try to get sole custody of a kid, especially if the BPD parent is the mother. But unless the BPD parent commits to a treatment program as a first priority in order to be a fit parent, I don't think it is safe for the child/ren to be alone with him/her.

Maybe this is just my experience. I loved my mother dearly, and I would have surely been crushed if my dad fought for sole custody of me when I was 3 years old. But he also would have saved from years and years of pathological dysfunction. And saved me from thousands of dollars in bills for therapy!

[safetyfirst]

Thank you for saying what I've felt in my heart for so long.  Now, unfortunately the main hurdle left is to convince the courts and the mental health rights advocates that restricting the disordered parent's contact with the children is really the lesser of two evils for the children.

That said, we are actively in the fight to do just that for my GS.

[salt]

The clear view of hindsight. 

I actually agree with you entirely, and wish that it was possible for my DH and I to get custody of my stepson.  Alas, that is very unlikely. 

Do you have any other suggestions for things you wish your Dad and stepmother had done differently that would have helped?

I appreciate your posting this, thank you. 

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? The focus of this board is about understanding the child, their needs, and supporting them in an intelligent and non self-sacrificing way. If your topic is mostly about the other parent and you are divorced, please go to Rebuilding our Life. If your topic is mostly about legal/custody issues, please go to Family law, Divorce, and Custody. If your topic is mostly about the other parent and you are still married, please go to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner. If you need help moving a thread, please contact a moderator. We are glad to help. :)

[Mr. M]

I know this may sound harsh - but I will say I don't think it's entirely unfair to attempt to get sole custody of your child/children and only allow supervised visitation w/ diagnosed BPD parents (your ex) who are not progressing healthily through a treatment program.

I am now 28 years old and dealing with a whole new kind of anger. Not at my BPD mother, but at my father and stepmother who didn't protect me from her. Will the child/ren miss their BPD parent? Assuredly. But that missing will probably mess them up a lot less than joint custody.

I know parenting and custody battles are tricky, and it's a long process to ever try to get sole custody of a kid, especially if the BPD parent is the mother. But unless the BPD parent commits to a treatment program as a first priority in order to be a fit parent, I don't think it is safe for the child/ren to be alone with him/her.

Maybe this is just my experience. I loved my mother dearly, and I would have surely been crushed if my dad fought for sole custody of me when I was 3 years old. But he also would have saved from years and years of pathological dysfunction. And saved me from thousands of dollars in bills for therapy!

I agree with you almost without question.

Now, try being a father in a divorce/custody system heavily tilted in favor of mothers, without a diagnosis, with all of the same fears about those things you've experienced, and not having the ability to do anything about it.

It's a fear many of us live with every single day.  It's a fear many moms here live with every day.  It's a fear many "steps" live with every day.

Your fresh perspective is much appreciated!  Seriously.

[Interposed]

I'm the daugther of an NPD and a DPD in addition to being a secondary non. DaughterofBP79, I could not agree with you more.

I think there are a lot of problems, however. I think when the process starts, a lot of the nons are still thick in the fog which I think all of us that have had PDs in our lives have gone through at some point. Unfortunately, since they often think the fault is theirs and only come to learn the actuality of what they are dealing with slowly, they tend to both be unprepared mentally and with the necessary documentation to actually get sole custody. And the courts truly are biased toward sticking the kids with mom who among BPDs are the majority.

However, I agree as the child of PD'd parents, they really have to fight for the kids. Ten years of therapy later, I'll never be cured of what was an inundation of familial mental illness from my birth until now with a fully 18 years when I was their hostage. Granted my mother had a PD as well, but some of my worst pain was from her standing back and letting my father do to me anything he pleased.

On my end, since my non and I don't have the kids, I've been trying to figure out what to do for the kids outside of the court battle we're waging to get them. If you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

[NewLifeforHGG]

Which is why I thank my lucky stars that my ex continues to go to deep intense therapy and that I have sole custody. He only goes places with my dtr if I allow it and it always to the park or something like that. He actually folded pretty easily. In his case I really think it is because he knew his mother had a PD. He did not want to screw up his child and readily admits I am the better parent.
But I am the person who pushed him to see what his mother really was, then he went to a T who backed it up. He read about it. Finally before I left he went to DBT. Then he quit and I bailed. He started again in August 07 and has been in therapy ever since. He told me he will be in therapy for the rest of his life.

I watched my mother sit by too and I was not going to back down without a fight. So much of what directs me in my life has to do with my dtr's emotional well being.

Sadly, I am in a minority. Many many people on this board are trying to get sole custody but are up against various impediments. The court system is still living in 1970 or somewhere. It takes an enlightened judge, resources, a great (not good) lawyer and so much more to even get 50/50 sometimes. It pains me to see the people I have come to care about here try and try but keep getting punched in the gut.  :'(I cannot imagine having to put my child in a car to go to a home to be with an unstable person for a weekend. Having to send them right back into the mess you had to escape from. It must be pure agony.

You put a voice to so many frustrations here.

[LostAngel99]

I also totally agree with this, and currently living this same thing as a paternal grandma. 

We've been lucky that our uBPDer has really flubbed up in court and shown many of the problems my son was having in attempting to co parent with her.  Our girl is very low functioning, she doesn't appear to have the capacity to take care of her child (nor care to develop it).  I've had to watch my little gd (who is still under the age of 2) suffer physically, medically, and mentally due to her mom who sees her as nothing more as a status symbol, a possession. 

Right now, my son has sole custody (he and gd live with us) with limited supervised visitation for the BPDMom.   The fight now is to keep it that way. 

I appreciate you posting this -- its hard to be in the position of taking a child away from his/her mother and all involved in my case would like to see a mother/daughter relationship nurtured if at all possible...it simply doesn't seem to be possible without putting the child's safety at risk :-(. 

[daughterofbp79]

As for suggestions to current co-parents w/ BPDs...

I would suggest really paying attention to helping your kid(s) cope with the stresses of being with a BPD parent. What I mean by this is: watch out and watch very very carefully for signs of distress and rather than blame the kid for acting out or using other coping skills, react with empathy and really open communication. I say this for a number of reasons.

One is that I recently read an article (I think I got it from this site?) about kids of BPDs and I was amazed about the research. It said that children of BPDs are more likely to have impulse control disorders. I was like "Woh." I started going to therapy in 2nd grade for what was labeled then as ADHD. Looking back, there is no way I ever had ADHD. I'm in the psych profession, I'm not cynical about diagnoses. But as soon as I left for boarding school when I was 14 I was a straight A student. Out of the anxiety-provoking environment -- healthier me.

The problem I'm getting at wrt my therapy (which lasted from 2nd grade until 8th grade) was that it seemed highly focused on diagnosing me as problematic in some way and putting the onus on me to control myself in class (I talked out all the time...Knowing what I know now, I definitely had some sort of impulse control disorder and not ADHD). Control Myself when I wanted to interrupt my dad when he was reading the newspaper. Calm my emotional swings. Etc etc. There was no EMPATHY in this. This was about controlling a 'difficult child.' THat's how my dad and stepmother seemed to view me, and that's certainly how I felt about myself (and still do, unfortunately).

What is important in all this is that your kid may and probably will show signs of distress and even possibly pathology, especially in school. I suggest you approach your kid with a lot of understanding, patience and compassion and find a way to break through the defensive posture he/she is putting on and help the kid understand that it's not his/her fault Mommy/Daddy is rageful and spiteful and sick. It's not his/her fault that he/she is always anxious and maybe can't sit still, maybe is highly attuned to emotional states and is overly sensitive, etc etc. It's INCREDIBLY anxiety-provoking to have a BPD parent. It was no wonder I had trouble focusing in class or at my dad and stepmother's home: I spent half my time in an emotional hell, trying to always be ready for the next emotional crazy-fest my mother went on.

While some BPDs are not abusive physically, I do think there is a link between some aspects of PTSD and what some children of BPDs experience. I am to this day one of the most sensitive and anxious people I know, despite being highly accomplished and intellectually rational. I have feared loved ones committing suicide or dying, running away or despising me for as long as I remember. I have feared my own untimely death for as long as I remember, probably b/c I secretly wished for death, some sort of salvation from the hellish life with my mother. I also wished that she would die, and those sorts of feelings are all much too mature and overwhelming for a very young child, nevermind an adult.

So, I do recommend therapy for your kid(s), but the kind of therapy that focuses on empathy for what the child is going through and maybe even some psychoeducation regarding what BPD is -- anything to let the kid know "it is NOT your fault, and your reactions/feelings/defenses are NORMAL coping mechanisms (rather than pathological 'bad kid' behavior)."

I hope I've been clear about why I'm saying what I'm saying. I so badly wish my dad and stepmother had not labeled me as a 'difficult kid' so openly when I was 6, 7, 8... Not only did they not protect me from my mother by trying to get sole custody of me, but also they chastised and pathologized me for what I believe were very normal reactions to an incredibly abnormal situation...

[daughterofbp79]

Interposed -- what is a non or a secondary non?

I am not familiar with any of the jargon here yet.

And a uBPD -- does that mean undiagnosed?

[daughterofbp79]

One more thing:

You can - as a co-parent - CERTAINLY request that your ex-spouse be evaluated by a court-appointed guardian ad litem and psychologist. That is fairly typical - I THINK (not sure) - in cases involving undiagnosed mental illnesses in parents? Guardian ad litem may be too invasive for your tastes; it is the guardian ad litem who will advise the court on which parent should get custody. They don't make the decision, but they are brought in to evaluate the situation on behalf of the child (so, not as subjectively as the parents).

A court psychologist, though, could REALLY help. You could also likely hire your own psychologist through your attorney (and then your ex-spouse would likely hire one as well). I think. I'm not very informed about forensic psychology, but I know that my half-sister had a guardian ad litem appointed to her (amazingly, the court chose my mother -- just shows you how messed up my half-sister's father was too! I had to agree back then that my mother was the better option than my sister's dad. He did really really crazy stuff like abduct my then 8 year old sister in order to 'get back' at my mother for moving. Crazy) and my mom was evaluated mentally.

Just googling, I found this: http://www.divorceguidelines.com/custody.html

I quote:

"If your case goes before a court, the first step will probably be to obtain a temporary order for custody and placement, pending a court evaluation. Although temporary orders are not intended to be permanently binding, you should be cautious about giving up placement of your child if you hope to eventually obtain custody. Courts tend to decide in favor of the parent who already has placement, especially if the child seems to be well-adjusted in the current living situation. Therefore, you should be aware that to give up placement, even temporarily, may result in the loss of permanent physical custody.

In order to make a final determination of custody, the court may conduct an evaluation. This evaluation will generally include psychological tests, interviews, and consultations with attorneys. Before a psychological evaluation begins, you must give your written consent, and you should expect the financial arrangements for the evaluation to be agreed upon beforehand. Usually, the parents will share the cost of this evaluation, although sometimes both the court and the parents pay.

In some particularly difficult cases, the judge may appoint a guardian to represent the child. This guardian will talk to the child and parents and make recommendations to the court.

The court will take many factors into account before making a final determination of custody. These factors include your financial ability and emotional ability to care for your child. In the past, physical custody was most often granted to the mother, but today this is changing as more and more fathers act as primary caregivers. In cases where an older child is involved, courts will sometimes take the child's wishes into account.

You may already know that the court will not grant custody to parents who have substance-dependency problems or who have been found to be abusive. You should also be aware that a judge is not likely to award custody to a parent who is unwilling to abide by the court's judgments, who has attempted to use the child to get back at the ex-spouse, who refuses to communicate with the ex-spouse about the child's welfare, or who has sought to prevent a relationship between the child and the other parent. With this in mind, you should take care never to use your child in an attempt to hurt or get back at your ex-spouse."

[daughterofbp79]

NewLife --

I'm really so glad to hear your ex is in therapy and admits he will always need it.

My mom started DBT after she was institutionalized (very briefly), but she became too physically sick to keep it up. THat's partially true and partially a lie, I believe. My mom was intensely psychosomatically defended, but she did legitimately develop Hep C and liver disease not long after she was released from a mental inst...

I'm also glad to hear your ex can admit you're the better parent and try to do what's right for the kid. So many PDs can have such trouble truly believing they could possibly be a harm to anyone...

[barearea]

Daughter:

Your experience and training offer great insights into this topic, and thank you for sharing them!

My own experience with a high functioning BPD surgeon echoes that of many who have posted here...the disinterest of the courts, the, "I didn't know until it was too late, etc".  All this has led me to provide as much emotional support to the children as possible by the OTHERS who tend to the children...the nannies/baby sitters/relatives...and educate these caregivers on the kids' BPD momster...an absolute necessity in my case because the local child protective agency and the court have shown repeatedly that they don't give a darn unless the kids are malnourished or missing a limb.    But it has worked...these caregivers are my front line in protecting the children.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is another level that can be used to help the kids.  I would be interested in how you think this approach could change the kids' perspective on their momster, and me, their dad, as they grow older.  Lord knows I would do anything legal to gain custody of them (tens of thousands of dollars in legal/psych fees and 6 years of court sessions haven't worked, yet). But time marches on nonetheless.

Bare.

[Nanuk]

    <---- This happens everytime I am forced to send my beautiful, innocent 7yo daughter back into the inferno that is her current living situation. The FC judge thought in the interim the safest option for my daughter was to order her mother (currently the mother has sole day to day care) to remain resident with her parents. My lawyer, my daughters lawyer and myself all knew this was less than an ideal situation. Hell we even described a self harm incident that my ex did in the middle of the night not so long ago whilst staying with her parents, with my daughter asleep in her care, prior to us breaking up, that required a middle of the night dash to the local hospital and several stitches to close the gapping wound. As you may will be aware, its highly likely that a BPD sufferer shares these traits with some of their immediate family members (reasonably sure the exBPDgf's mom is NPD as will as BPD).

So my poor innocent, highly intelligent 7yo daughter is living the nightmare you have so eloquently described here. It makes me ache so deep inside for her. I know her pain, but feel it so much more after reading your account.

I cannot speak for your father and step mom, but its probably as hard for you to understand why you feel they didnt do more, as it is for me (until reading your post) to understand exactly what my daughter has to deal with, while the FC sits on their hands and to a big degree are full on enablers to my exBPDgf.

I am luckier than some nons.I was so in love with my exBPDgf, im a huge romantic (will at least I was) but those same traits in me that broke my heart when she left also made it easier for me to get over her and her nasty crap. It made it easier as I realised someone who supposedly loved me would never hurt someone so totally and with such finality. LEast of all do that to another human being, that had nursed her for 5 or more of the 8 years I was subjected to her insanity.

Now to give a breif over view of a caring father that is fighting the fight for one special person - My daughter!

I live in fear, fear of what this is doing to my daughter, fear for her safety, and to a degree fear for my own safety and wellbeing. I try every day to remain positive and strong in the face of this adversity. I consider myself (as do my family and friends) to be an emotionally and mentally strong person, as will as physcially.Yet day after day is a struggle, at times an almost unbearable struggle. I have to contend with this battle for my daughter, and to date that is the one thing I cling to to get me through the dark days - if its this hard for me - what the hell torture must my daughter be enduring. That scares me, and as much as I appreciated your honest posting from another veiw, a view my daughter is probably living right now, it also scared me to see this view in black and white before me. Try as I might I will never completely grasp the depth of hurt and damage my daughter is suffering. Your post has certainly given me more knowledge of that side, thats for certain.

So every day I fight this fight (I know im not alone with that type of stuff). I have had to endure false allegations, wow no suprises there for others living this nightmare. I live in fear of the next false allegation, even magnified fear after the FC judge hearing the custody issues has made some less than flattering remarks regarding my character, without me even taking the stand at this point! Then their is a protection order looming large over me, another product of outright lying by my exBPDgf. Whereby I find im always hyper vigilent and second guessing even simply tasks ie: wanting to email my daughter to re-inforce my love for her, changing my route when going places to make sure no accidental crossing of paths can occur between my exBPDgf and myself. Then their is her attempts at intimidating me, through the courts, Police, her gang member family members. The latter isnt a real concern, im not a small guy and can handle myself, but it still weighs heavily on my pysche.

I guess the worst thing is knowing that her lies will escalate and have done already.So I find im constantly evaluating if im doing the right thing by my daughter. Knowing that people here have had allegations of the most hideous proportions levelled at them by there SO's or exSO's etc.I live in fear that my exBPDgf would try that tact at some stage, when things do swing in my daughters favour and I gain ground in securing her safety. So from a real Fathers perspective its a darned hard road, fraught with emotional mines, fears and uncertainties.

If your ok with it, can I ask that I be allowed to print off your posts, the ones purely relating to your veiw of a daughter growing up in this minefield we call a BPD mother. I would like to show these to my lawyer, my daughters lawyer and the court appointed pyschologist. I would remove all references of yourself and FTF etc.

[Interposed]

DaughterofBP79, a non is someone who was married to a BP, and a secondary non is the non's significant other (girlfriend, wife, boyfriend, husband) 

It sounds like what you're saying more than anything is that kids of a PD'd parent need validation. I couldn't agree more. Our PD'd parents tend to spin everything as our fault, even to our therapists and teachers when we're kids, and it can be a confusing, humiliating, personally destructive place to be since as kids we don't really know any better ourselves.

I saw you stress that BPDs are not generally physically abusive. Isn't this the sorest subject of all? I came of age more years ago than I care to count, but I was truly saddened when I got to this board and found it is still the case that if there are not broken bones and blood, a kid can scream abuse as much as he/she wants, and most people (i.e. those in law enforcement, the legal system, schools etc.) don't consider it as such. I think this is a huge problem with the family court. It rarely recognizes mental illness for what it is, and plenty of kids are still being sent straight back into the psychological abuse. It deeply sickens me that it is still this way. Unfortunately, however, it's an additional thing that makes it really difficult to get sole custody of the kids. Too many institutions are still ignoring the elephant in the room.
 

[GrokThis]

Thanks for your your comments.  I think they validate a lot of concerns I have for my sweet D3 and S2.  BPD just got temporary joint custody of the kids today and it is breaking my heart just to think of having to leave them with her next Sunday for an entire week.  If anyone has advice on how to get my wife diagnosed, i'd appreciate it.
She is seeing a councelor and he is completely clueless about what her problems are.  He labeled her as depressed and decided that now that she is on her best behavior she is cured.  This is so frustrating!  I know what my kids need and I can't give that to them.

Grok

[daughterofbp79]

Polar Bear Dad -- I am fine w/ you printing off my posts to show your attorney, but please just cut and paste the text and do include my screen name or any identifying factors. Thanks. Good luck!

Interpose -- yes, I'm really just emphasizing how much children of BPD need and deserve validation and that the emphasis for their behaviors that seem wacky/disruptive be on empathy first and empathically teaching them coping skills for their understandable emotions.

Grok -- I really don't know how to get someone diagnosed -- people's privacy, rights, freedom, etc.! -- except getting as many qualified shrinks to eval your ex as possible -- court-appointed, appointed by your attorney, appointed by her attorney. Guardian ad litem? Also, if you can document incidents that fall under the diagnostic criteria (don't exagerrate to make your point, just be honest and try to be as objective as possible) adn try to get witnesses to corroborate, that may help. Evidence.

What is true is that none of us here can ultimately diagnose our seemingly BPD family members/spouses/exes, etc. It's unnerving to look at the behavior, the affect and the DSM and KNOW and not be licensed to have our knowledge mean much. Even as the daughter of a BPD, I can only say she had it b/c she was FINALLY diagnosed w/ it by an objective professional non-related third party when I was 19...

[Nanuk]

Thanks daughterofbp7. Would most definately only cut and paste the text you have posted of your veiw of growing up with your BPDmom as day to day carer.

My older sister is a huge support to me through this, even driving every contact day a total of 2.5 hours to collect and return my daughter to enable the contact between my daughter and I to occur with NC between my exBPDgf and myself or even myself and her equally demented family members(took me ages to get the FC to realise I want total NC with my ex!).So last evening I explained to my sister what you had posted here as both my sister and myself have seen first hand the angst dsiplayed by my 7yo daughter when returning to her mothers "care" after my contact visits.(totally not divulging any info re: FTF or usernames etc). So we are trying to think of other ways we can be more proactive in protecting my daughter, as much as we can in the confines of the bogus current arrangement regarding day to day care and my limited contact with my daughter at present.

I have found your posting hugely valueable in my battle to protect my daughter from her demented mother. Thank you for posting an honest account of how it was for you as the daughter growing up of a BPD.

[Over The Drama]

Thank you for your post.  I also agree with you 100% and we did just that. 
Mr. M is absolutely right.  It's extremely hard to convince the courts that a mother is unfit. 

We finally did just what you said, but it took 8 years of taking that woman to court on contempt charges, documenting everything, etc.  It cost somewhere around $50K over the years.  Many people don't have that kind of money and fighting without an attorney is practically useless. 

The only thing that saved my daughter was her own voice.  When she turned 14 she decided on her own to live with us and be healthy.  Her mother rejected her as a result.  It was hard for her. 

If she had not done that we'd still be fighting the fight to save her.  In the end she saved herself.  Many children don't have that strength.  My daughter (I'm adopting her now) had that strength but I didn't as a teen.  I chose to live with an alcoholic when I had a perfectly wonderful dad and step-mom who wanted me.  I know you must be in a lot of pain, and it's hard.  But, it was probably very hard for your dad and step-dad too.  I hope that reading our posts of how it is to walk in our shoes helps ease some of your anger. 

Maybe someday things will be different with the custody system.    

[daughterofbp79]

This is so weird, but the issue of what constitutes abuse came up in one of my classes this evening. We were talking about physical abuse and I brought up the notion that emotional/psychological abuse can be so much more harmful than a SPANKING or even other forms of physical punishment (the action in question was smacking a kid on the butt w/ the back of a hairbrush. I'm not even from an 'old school' generation, but I saw that sort of thing a fair amount in friends' homes -- though not my own -- when I was a kid and back then no one seemed to think it was 'abuse'). It distressed me as we talked about it that there is no mandatory reporting for what is seen as emotional abuse and primarily it's because it leaves no VISIBLE mark.

Ugh. I understand why the rules are in place, but there are so many other kinds of damaging things that can happen to kids that have nothing to do w/ the 'physical.'

It's hard...Maybe I'll post this next thought elsewhere, but -- I have to say, I see (and continue to try to see) my BPD mother in a human context too. She definitely had a rageaholic physically abusive father and an alcoholic emotionally abusive mother, and it's possible my mom was sexually abused as a child as well. Knowing her background (which I knew at a very young age, alas, no surprise there that she openly shared all the sordid details of her life w/ me), I know there's a degree to which she couldn't 'help' how she turned out. At the same time, I guess I still maintain -- and this goes for everyone, really, including myself -- you may have a very reasonable explanation for why you treat yourself and others badly, but (a) that doesn't make it excusable and (b) the onus is on you to get help...

[Nanuk]

I agree with your last words.

I know there's a degree to which she couldn't 'help' how she turned out. At the same time, I guess I still maintain -- and this goes for everyone, really, including myself -- you may have a very reasonable explanation for why you treat yourself and others badly, but (a) that doesn't make it excusable and (b) the onus is on you to get help...

There is no excuse for one human being mistreating another human being with one exception - a life threatening situation with no options but survival of the fittest - IMHO.

Im sick and tired of hearing in the press in my country, the bleeding heart PC brigade saying "oh but this murderer had a bad upbringing, was abused, etc etc". I was physically and emotionally abused as a child - daily - as I see alot of my peers here at FTF were also with bad FOO stuff. Im not a murderer, im not a rapist, im not emotionally abusive and so on and so forth. So why do some sectors of society try and justify, minimise, excuse bad behaviours under the guise of a bad FOO of the offender.It does my head in every time I see some PC nutjob trying to make excuses for some wacko.

I also cannot understand how society still has a skewed vision on emotional abuse. I recall my father and step father beating me from a young age, yeah it hurt, I vividly recall the emotional abuse from both my mother and step mother, I have the scars on and in my body, but its a choice I make to not use that crap to ever try and justify my bad bahaviours. I made a concious choice from a young age to never repeat the cycle of violence both emotional and physical, that as I child I grew up with.