BPD ex wife may be teaching 9 year old daugther how to shoplift

[Think About It...]

While having the kids over as I usually do last weekend, my 9 year old daughter mentioned to my girlfriend that you can go into a shop and take the price ticket from a lower priced item and put it on a higher priced item and then pay for it and you've got the item cheaper than it should be, when asked who had told her this my daughter said that her mother (BPD Ex Wife) had shown her how to do it.

Obviously my girlfriend told me and I took my daughter to one side and asked her what had happened, she was very upfront about the shop that it took place in, the item that was used to do the price tag swap, etc. I obviously explained to her that it was stealing and wrong and that she was never to do it again, etc.

I know that children can make stuff up, but the subtlety of this form of theft described is what makes me believe it is true, a child of 9 wouldnt come up with the idea of swapping a price tag of a lower price for one of a higher price.

Upon taking the children back to their mothers on Saturday evening I asked to have a chat with my ex in private outside, explained the allegation to her, she denighed it, I reminded her that during our time together she managed in 1997 to destroy a 3 year friendship by stealing a gold braclet from a guest at a wedding reception we attended, so she has previous form on theft.

I warned my ex that if I hear of any further instances of her or anyone around her encouraging either of my children to indulge in theft or any other illegal acts and I would be reporting it to the local police.

Any comments, ideas of how I could have handled this and any similar problems in the future would be gratefully received.

Magnacarta.  ?

[Magnacarta]

While having the kids over as I usually do last weekend, my 9 year old daughter mentioned to my girlfriend that you can go into a shop and take the price ticket from a lower priced item and put it on a higher priced item and then pay for it and you've got the item cheaper than it should be, when asked who had told her this my daughter said that her mother (BPD Ex Wife) had shown her how to do it.

Obviously my girlfriend told me and I took my daughter to one side and asked her what had happened, she was very upfront about the shop that it took place in, the item that was used to do the price tag swap, etc. I obviously explained to her that it was stealing and wrong and that she was never to do it again, etc.

I know that children can make stuff up, but the subtlety of this form of theft described is what makes me believe it is true, a child of 9 wouldnt come up with the idea of swapping a price tag of a lower price for one of a higher price.

Upon taking the children back to their mothers on Saturday evening I asked to have a chat with my ex in private outside, explained the allegation to her, she denighed it, I reminded her that during our time together she managed in 1997 to destroy a 3 year friendship by stealing a gold braclet from a guest at a wedding reception we attended, so she has previous form on theft.

I warned my ex that if I hear of any further instances of her or anyone around her encouraging either of my children to indulge in theft or any other illegal acts and I would be reporting it to the local police.

Any comments, ideas of how I could have handled this and any similar problems in the future would be gratefully received.

Magnacarta.  ?

[Oy-vey!]

From the outside looking at your situation with your DD's admitted stealing (ala BPDxW), I would call the store and tell them what happened.  Ask them if they have video taped surveillance.  If they do, then you have proof that your BPDxW is a thief and that she is teaching your DD.

If you have a GAL, report it to him/her. 

If you have a parenting coordinator, report it to him/her.

Call your attorney first, though.

[Her Mama]

I would likely go ahead and call the police.  No parent should be instructing children (and likely, so she could claim innocence, she had your daughter switch the tags) ways to steal.  Definitely follow up with your attorney and the store.  She not only could get charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor as well as theft.  These things will get you primary custody.

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[LostAngel99]

If you do decide to call the police, I would ask the police officer to talk to your 9 yo...it will help reenforce you telling her to not do this again. 

Our BPDer was also taught around the age of 9 to steal (I heard this from her own grandmother that caught her in the act, and BPDer telling her that "my mom said it was okay").   Her younger siblings (ages 9 and 11) have come to my home and told me that their parents have instructed them to steal people's wallets...including mine.   The little 9 yo girl looked in my face and said, "But, I am not going to take your wallet, cause you are so nice". 

[Her Mama]

DOT was caught and arrested for shoplifting when Little Bit was a baby.  DOT was stuffing things under the lining of her baby carrier.  I have no doubt she would have involved LB in more serious thefts if she were to have the opportunity.

[sonnyboy]

CALL CHILD PROTECTION SERVICES RIGHT NOW.  They will investigate, interview the daughter, and dear ol' ma.  If they find out that the story is true, they will initiate a charge of neglect or mistreatment. 

Please do this now.

Sonnyboy

[doc101]

This is a sitation that you should react to immediately. As descibed above there may be video of her stealing and thereby proof. There are very few situations where you will be able to prove anything...so this one could be a blessing for you...Act now.

[LostAngel99]

CALL CHILD PROTECTION SERVICES RIGHT NOW.  They will investigate, interview the daughter, and dear ol' ma.  If they find out that the story is true, they will initiate a charge of neglect or mistreatment. 

Please do this now.

Sonnyboy

CPS won't do anything...there is no proof and any survellience tapes would be dealt with through the police...who will also not likely press charges, its too petty. 

This disordered mother is probably skilled at lying, and if she is capable of teaching her child to steal, she's probably capable of threatening the 9 yo to recant her story...or else.  Even if the 9 yo tells the truth, disordered mom can claim the child is lying that "mom said it was okay" to prevent getting into trouble. 

About the only thing you can do here, IMO, besides handling it within your own walls, is use this in Family Court against the mom...IF you can get a hold of survellience tapes. 

I've dealt with CPS and the police many, many times on similar issues as this.  They don't care.   They have bigger fish to fry and you are wasting their time.

[Magnacarta]

CALL CHILD PROTECTION SERVICES RIGHT NOW.  They will investigate, interview the daughter, and dear ol' ma.  If they find out that the story is true, they will initiate a charge of neglect or mistreatment. 

Please do this now.

Sonnyboy

CPS won't do anything...there is no proof and any survellience tapes would be dealt with through the police...who will also not likely press charges, its too petty. 

This disordered mother is probably skilled at lying, and if she is capable of teaching her child to steal, she's probably capable of threatening the 9 yo to recant her story...or else.  Even if the 9 yo tells the truth, disordered mom can claim the child is lying that "mom said it was okay" to prevent getting into trouble. 

About the only thing you can do here, IMO, besides handling it within your own walls, is use this in Family Court against the mom...IF you can get a hold of survellience tapes. 

I've dealt with CPS and the police many, many times on similar issues as this.  They don't care.   They have bigger fish to fry and you are wasting their time.

My daughters mother is an extremely skilled liar and manipulator, I speak to my children every Monday and Wednesday evening on the phone and while speaking to my daughter last night she retracted her statement, so my ex wifes manipulation skills have definately been employed.

Yesterday I also took a trip down to the store in question to take a look at their security setup, my ex wife is very skilled at picking her targets as its a small family run shop with no security cameras, so no possibility of video footage of the incident.

Fun times  ?

[Samuell]

It's horrible watching your own children being dragged down by poor examples.

I'm learning that there really is a limit on what I can do about it. Teaching kids how to steal is not as serious as the underlying moral message - "it's okay to steal".

My ex is a liar, theif and a bunch of other things. Our children will copy her - human nature. I just hope that they copy me as well and they get some balance.

Sam.

[LostAngel99]

My daughters mother is an extremely skilled liar and manipulator, I speak to my children every Monday and Wednesday evening on the phone and while speaking to my daughter last night she retracted her statement, so my ex wifes manipulation skills have definately been employed.

Yesterday I also took a trip down to the store in question to take a look at their security setup, my ex wife is very skilled at picking her targets as its a small family run shop with no security cameras, so no possibility of video footage of the incident.

Fun times  ?

Magna,

Even considering she recanted, it still may be worth it, on your next visitation, to arrange a trip to the police station and have an officer talk to your dd about stealing.  That one they might do, as long as you call ahead and choose a time where an officer is available in the station to take a few minutes with you. 

Or, a trip to the Juvenile Hall facility...show her where kids that commit crimes spend their time.

 

[sonnyboy]

I know the despair stemming from the failures of the system, but I still think a call to CPS won't hurt.  Even in my dreadful state, CPS has very skilled people who do the interviews.  They know how to fish out the truth.

You may want to even secretly record your daughter and have her talk about the theft and how she learned to do it.

What  do you  have to lose?

[safetyfirst]

You might want to take pictures of your d and ex and visit that shop again and give them a head's up in case she tries it again. When I worked in retail we had several well known 'ticket switchers'.  When they entered the store, word went out and a variety of employees were sent to various areas to 'tidy the area' and keep an eye on them.  We also had a policy of greeting every customer we came near on the sales floor and asking if we could help them find what they were looking for.  These ticket switchers didn't like having employees near by and would move on.

[doc101]

Yesterday I also took a trip down to the store in question to take a look at their security setup, my ex wife is very skilled at picking her targets as its a small family run shop with no security cameras, so no possibility of video footage of the incident.

Fun times  ?

As some of the others have stated you still need to make a report to either the police or CPS. I understand the futility of it all but at the same time you will be going through years of this type of thing. IMO it would be best to establish a record. You may in the future nail her on something that will stick if there is a record of "possibles". The authority figures would have a history to make opinions from. IMO the only thing you stand to loose by reporting is your time...Not reporting however could haunt you.

[spent18]

These children can learn.  Mine watched and supported their mom whenever she stole from me (and she did more times than I’d like to share – UNTIL I had her arrested and then divorced her – note: for much more that just that – but we’re talking about thievery)

My children were often bought off.  She would steal and them buy them a small token from the proceeds (steal from me or even them – although they didn’t know about the times she stole from them until the past few years as they got older and wondered what happened with this account or those savings bonds….).

I might be an isolated case,  but will tell you,  now I can leave thousands of dollars (and often do) anywhere in my house without any concern the two minor children still at home will touch it.  They did watch it, yes, but they also understood (somewhere deep down inside)  that it was wrong.

You may or may not be able to prove the posted situation,  but you can definitely set your own example.