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Author Topic: COMMUNICATION: Validation - tools and techniques  (Read 36475 times)
artman.1
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« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2011, 10:42:10 AM »

This one was good for my collection of posts that I want to come back to over and over.  WOW!  I have been working on my validation skills very hard lately.  The RS between my UBPDW and I has improved and I can see a much better future ahead.

Art
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kristy1981
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« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2011, 11:06:08 AM »

SWI-- I am in the same boat... sometimes it is almost impossible to truly validate because I feel so differently about a particular situation than he does.  In those instances it is very clear to both of us that I think he is nuts... and do come off as cold/mean/not caring.  He tells me I have no empathy.. I do it's just sometimes he's so far off his rocker that it is hard to empathize.. ugh!  Something I do need to get better at... afterall.. this is what he feels... as much as he doesn't want to feel a certain way.. he does feel that way.. and he needs validation of some sort.  Just can't give different perspectives as a means to validate... even if he doesn't want to feel a certain way about whatever the situation might be...

does this make any sense?  I feel like I'm falling off MY rocker as I type this   grin
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iluminati
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« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2011, 11:42:05 AM »

I understand how hard it is to emphasize.  After all, a lot of stuff they aren't feeling heard about is so way out there that it's hard to connect to.  The key thing is to ask a lot of questions.  Get them to talk to you like you're stupid.  In my experience, once you get them to go back through all the logical leaps they made to get dysregulated, it becomes a lot easier to emphasize.  In my experience, you'd be surprised as to the source of the issues that made them upset in the first place.  Also, you'll find that these issues have nothing to do with you. 

From there, once you know the drill and put yourself in their shoes, you can emphasize.  I know in my wife's case, knowing how she grew up and the issues she had to deal with makes it a lot easier to validate when she gets dysregulated about something.  At least I know the core issues.  The key is to do the hard work of hacking through those weeds.
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He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.  Matthew 5:45b
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« Reply #63 on: August 11, 2011, 12:07:11 PM »

Level 6 - Radical Genuineness
The key to all validation is to be genuine.




Being genuine is a huge part of this.  If you listen to Dr. Fruzzetti's video, he talks about how this develops.  It's forced in the beginning , but your own need to be true to yourself will drive you to find a way to make it genuine.

It's easy to see when others are not empathetic - much harder to see ourselves.   Some of us have impaired empathy.

I've read from many members that have successfully rebuilt their relationships will look back and see that they lacked empathy earlier on.

Empathy is a big part of good mental health.  A personality disorder is defined by impairment in two of the following: empathy, intimacy, self image, and self function.

Where would your empathy?  

Skippy




Clinical definition* of empathy

∆ Healthy (0) Capable of accurately understanding others’ experiences and motivations in most situations. Comprehends and appreciates others’ perspectives, even if disagreeing.  Is aware of the effect of own actions on others.

∆ Mild impairment (1) Somewhat compromised in ability to appreciate and understand others’ experiences; may tend to see others as having unreasonable expectations or a wish for control. Although capable of considering and understanding different perspectives, resists doing so. Inconsistent is awareness of effect of own behavior on others.

∆ Impaired (2) Hyper-attuned to the experience of others, but only with respect to perceived relevance to self. Excessively self-referential; significantly compromised ability to appreciate and understand others’ experiences and to consider alternative perspectives. Generally unaware of or unconcerned about effect of own behavior on others, or unrealistic appraisal of own effect.

∆ Very Impaired (3) Ability to consider and understand the thoughts, feelings and behavior of other people is significantly limited; may discern very specific aspects of others’ experience, particularly vulnerabilities and suffering.  Generally unable to consider alternative perspectives; highly threatened by differences of opinion or alternative viewpoints. Confusion or unawareness of impact of own actions on others; often bewildered about peoples’ thoughts and actions, with destructive motivations frequently misattributed to others.

∆ Extreme Impairment (4)  Pronounced inability to consider and understand others’ experience and motivation. Attention to others' perspectives virtually absent (attention is hypervigilant, focused on need-fulfillment and harm avoidance).  Social interactions can be confusing and disorienting.


* Definition as per DSM 5 draft proposal


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toomanyeggshells
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« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2011, 02:35:50 PM »

This is an excellent thread which I'm going to read over and over again.  I know that if I could validate better (or at all), my r/s would be better.  Its just so hard to do when I feel like I'm talking to a 2 year old.

The key thing is to ask a lot of questions.  Get them to talk to you like you're stupid.  
This actually seems like very helpful advice.
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« Reply #65 on: August 11, 2011, 05:34:00 PM »

I have been using these suggestions all day in my communications. What I get back is that I am being mean. Then there are more circular conversations interspersed with diversions onto other subjects and back again. I am trying to keep him on the original track but it doesn't seem to be working as he just goes back to saying I'm mean and going off again. He just told me he knows I wish he'd hang himself.

Is this where I stop for the day?
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Aurylian
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« Reply #66 on: August 11, 2011, 05:38:46 PM »

I have been using these suggestions all day in my communications. What I get back is that I am being mean. Then there are more circular conversations interspersed with diversions onto other subjects and back again. I am trying to keep him on the original track but it doesn't seem to be working as he just goes back to saying I'm mean and going off again. He just told me he knows I wish he'd hang himself.

Is this where I stop for the day?

I was holding off on bringing this up, but since SNAFU started it  cool--in my situation validation works some of the time.  But, often my BPDw is tenacious in wanting me to agree with her facts or opinions (as in affirming I do or don't feel the same).  It's almost like she is saying "your validation means nothing to me if you don't agree with my facts or opinions."
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iluminati
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« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2011, 05:58:14 PM »

I have been using these suggestions all day in my communications. What I get back is that I am being mean. Then there are more circular conversations interspersed with diversions onto other subjects and back again. I am trying to keep him on the original track but it doesn't seem to be working as he just goes back to saying I'm mean and going off again. He just told me he knows I wish he'd hang himself.

Is this where I stop for the day?

I was holding off on bringing this up, but since SNAFU started it  cool--in my situation validation works some of the time.  But, often my BPDw is tenacious in wanting me to agree with her facts or opinions (as in affirming I do or don't feel the same).  It's almost like she is saying "your validation means nothing to me if you don't agree with my facts or opinions."

I think that when it comes to that, you just have to agree to disagree.  If you get someone coming after you to agree, that's when you roll out.  I know I've had to do that on occasion.  When a pwBPD does that, they aren't looking to be heard, but be listened to.  They want to control you, and you don't have to go with that.
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« Reply #68 on: August 11, 2011, 08:58:02 PM »

I have been using these suggestions all day in my communications. What I get back is that I am being mean. Then there are more circular conversations interspersed with diversions onto other subjects and back again. I am trying to keep him on the original track but it doesn't seem to be working as he just goes back to saying I'm mean and going off again. He just told me he knows I wish he'd hang himself.

Is this where I stop for the day?

Validation isn't a cure all for everything.
Sometimes there "is" an agenda, where they are focused on getting you to agree or change something.

ex. Your spouse may be interested in sexual intimacy and you are not. They may push the issue and get upset when you say "no".

You can validate and show you agree with them wanting something without caving in to their demands. You take care of yourself by refusing to get sucked into endless circular arguments. This is where multiple issues occur.  Validation, setting limits on what you will listen to, and taking care of yourself.

If you previously gave in to them after endless badgering and whining or them getting mad and raging at you, then you inadvertently gave them intermittent reinforcement (one of the hardest lessons to unlearn for both partners) , thus they are more likely to keep badgering you in the hopes that you will cave in to them. Your past actions have shown that through repeated attempts that they can win or get what they want (think slot machines). They aren't trusting your words but are basing their arguments on their own desire to get what they want and your past history of giving in. Your words won't mean a lot to them at first if this is the case.

Actions speak way louder than words, and our actions have to be consistent and strong for any lasting change to occur.
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Change your perceptions and you change your life.  Nothing changes without changes


jhan6120
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« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2011, 02:06:47 PM »

I think I occasionally invalidate my uBPDgf because I'm a HUMAN BEING TOO and I occasionally get exhausted from dealing with someone who is completely controlled by their emotions. And so I give myself a break about it.
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qkslvrgirl
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« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2011, 11:57:24 AM »

 As Jhan just expressed, we are only human and we tire of carrying the burden of constant mental health caregiver. This is when we nons are both more likely to appear vulnerable to a BPD (and they move in for the kill) and, having been attacked (invalidated) ourselves, we dish it back.

I've noticed that "becoming aware of my thoughts" has proved to be a useful tool to become more immune to having my own buttons pressed. Here are a couple of examples:

1) When I am alone, do I think constantly in terms of "stories" about why this-or-that was said? Can I stop the mental chatter and just "be" - and release any negative thinking in relation to what has happened or was said?

2) Am I taking responsibility at all times for how I feel? Am I aware that my emotions are separate from the reality - they are a physical expression of the thoughts I am choosing to think?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that MY emotional reactions are under MY control - I choose to jump through the hoop - or not. The emotions I feel are the result of the mental story I make up to explain my situation. If I make up a different story line, then I can change the temporary surge of emotions that are only a flood of some biochemical that my thoughts have triggered within me.

I hope that by mastering my own thought processes, I can put down the burden that is not mine to carry - and demonstrate another possible set of behaviors to the BPD.
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serenity123


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« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2011, 09:25:48 AM »

I am currently "no validation" with my 30 yr old daughter because I don't know what the heck to say to her.  I can't pretend I'm not upset by the fact that she has been lying to me.  She continues to pull at my emotional strings and guilt barfy
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OneMore


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See? ha-ha! I can take it. ha-ha!


« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2011, 06:15:09 PM »

I could not validate our daughter when I was caught up in the drama PD traits PD traits .  My wife found it the same.  We had to take time to heal up before we could see clearly enough to know what to do.  Take time for yourself  Doing the right thing  and recognize that when each of you are hurting and feeling hurt you cannot listen well enough to validate.  It is ok to take care of yorself first. Doing the right thing
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serenity123


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« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2011, 07:54:08 PM »

That's exactly how I feel... I want to take care of me... I do need to heal.  I hate that she may be so lost, but I feel in my heart that perhaps "tough love" right now is all I can do.
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aur0ra
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« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2012, 04:08:52 PM »

Can someone give examples of "validating questions" (as opposed to validating answers)?

Thx...d
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lbjnltx
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« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2012, 04:34:49 PM »

From the book " I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better":

"what do you think might work?"
"are there other options?"
"what do you think caused the problem?"
"did that hurt your feeling?"


Some of mine:

"what could you do differently next time to have a different outcome?"
"what would you like to see happen?"
"how can you affect change now?"
"are you personalizing?"
"would you like to have self time, i think i need it?"
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« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2012, 06:06:36 PM »

Also like this one because it takes them out of themselves a bit:

"If you had a friend with this problem, what would you suggest to them?"
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lbjnltx
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« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2012, 08:43:21 PM »

i like that one too battleweary!  cheesy
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« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2012, 09:08:26 PM »

Good validating statements and ways to communicate.

thanks, LadyLinnet
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somuchlove
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« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2012, 10:05:13 PM »

Me tooo.  I wish I could think more clearly when i am talking to my dd.  I use to  have these written down.  I need to do it again.  Oh I wish was good at this.  Thanks for the help.
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