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Author Topic: COMMUNICATION: Validation - tools and techniques  (Read 21111 times)
SunflowerFields
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« Reply #120 on: April 03, 2012, 03:58:08 PM »

I would like to ask for help in formulating a DEARMAN for a specific cause.

Goal: It would be important to me to have an important person in my life (not BPD) spend my birthday with me.

Challenge: This may be challenging for this person due to financial and work reasons.

Why I want to use DEARMAN: I want to get better at asking for things in non-threatening, non-demanding ways, that convey how I feel about them. The person in question is healthy themselves and I noticed is quite apt at these "healthy communication techniques", with very healthy and strong boundaries (I now wonder if that's what healthy really means). At the same time, we are not that close so that I can just go ahead and demand/expect it.  

What I have come up with so far:

D: I notice we have not talked about my birthday yet, even though we touched upon it a while ago.

E: I feel sad about this. (I also feel disappointed - should I say that?). It would mean a lot to me to spend my birthday with you.

A: Could you find a way to be with me for my bday?

R: If you can make it, I would feel happy, and it would make me feel wonderful. I would be happy to spend important dates of your life with you.

M: ?

A: ?

N: ?


 
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schwing
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« Reply #121 on: April 03, 2012, 05:06:20 PM »

D: I notice we have not talked about my birthday yet, even though we touched upon it a while ago.

"D= Describe the current situation. Tell the person exactly what you are reacting to. Stick to the facts."

Depending upon how neutral you wish to make this request, you might even let go of the context which you bring up.  Forget that it was brought up a while ago and you have not since talked about it.  Consider:

D: My birthday is coming up.  And I enjoy spending time with you.  I would like to enjoy spending time with you on my birthday if this is possible.

E: I feel sad about this. (I also feel disappointed - should I say that?). It would mean a lot to me to spend my birthday with you.

"E= Express your feelings and opinions about the situation. Assume that others cannot read your mind. Don’t expect others to know how hard it is for you to ask directly for what you want."

Unless you want to specifically bring up the point that you feel sad that the topic of your birthday was brought up before but not since (which may make the other person feel defensive), you might try:

E: It would mean a lot to me to be able to spend time on my birthday with you.

A: Could you find a way to be with me for my bday?

"A= Assert yourself by asking for what you want or saying no clearly. Assume that others cannot read your mind. Don’t expect others to know how hard it is for you to ask directly for what you want."

"be with me" is slightly ambiguous.  You might consider a more specific request, ie. share a meal, and/or spend time doing something we both enjoy, and/or go on a hike with me, etc...  If you make it a specific request, then there is less concern on the other party with coming up with an idea which may or may not be rejected.

R: If you can make it, I would feel happy, and it would make me feel wonderful. I would be happy to spend important dates of your life with you.

"R= Reinforce the reward to the person ahead of time. Tell the person the positive effects of getting what you want or need. Help the person feel good ahead of time for doing what you want."

I think it is generally a safe assumption that if you enjoy spending time with the other person, they should also enjoy spending time with you.  However, your "reward" presumes that they do not have some other different plan they might like on their birthday (i.e., if they are more extrovert, they would want a large group gathering, etc..)

Depending on what specific activity you request, the reward can be related to that specific activity (i.e., great meal at such-and-such place/food they enjoy, or if a hike, then enjoy spending time in nature or exercising for fitness, etc...).  

Generally though, "I would be happy to spend time with you whenever you would like it." would be a neutral mutually receptive reward.  It opens up the offer to what ever days they might prefer, including (but not limited to) important dates on their life.

M: ?

"M= Mindfully keep your focus on your objectives. Maintain your position. Don’t be distracted."

My take on being "mindful" is to pay attention feelings this request may elicit unexpectedly from you.  Such as interpreting any hesitation on their part as a sign of potential rejection which the real reason might be much more innocuous.  The key is to pay attention to your feelings and not necessarily act on them, or let these feelings push you in a direction which is counterproductive to your goal.

A: ?

"A= Appear Confident. Use a confident voice tone and physical manner; make good eye contact. No stammering, whispering, staring at the floor, retreating, saying “I’m not sure,” etc."

I see this part as very much tied to being mindful.  You want to communicate as clearly as possible, and so you want to avoid expressing other mixed emotions which may confuse the other party, or may even perhaps trigger the other party's own set of insecurities what not.  So it is best to "appear confident" even when you might not be feeling this way.

N: ?

"N= Negotiate by being willing to give to get. Offer and ask for alternative solutions to the problem. What am I willing to “settle for” or “give up” in order to gain what I want in the situation?"

Are you willing to celebrate your birthday on another day if that is an arrangement that is offered?  I don't know what is going on in the mind of the other person, but you might be able to speculate, and you should ask yourself, what kinds of compromises are you willing or unwilling to make?

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SunflowerFields
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« Reply #122 on: April 03, 2012, 05:36:50 PM »

Thank you schwing! This is incredible. Copy, paste, study. Exactly what I wanted to say - but you said it better.

something you said made me stare at it for a while:

"M= Mindfully keep your focus on your objectives. Maintain your position. Don’t be distracted."

My take on being "mindful" is to pay attention feelings this request may elicit unexpectedly from you.  Such as interpreting any hesitation on their part as a sign of potential rejection which the real reason might be much more innocuous.  The key is to pay attention to your feelings and not necessarily act on them, or let these feelings push you in a direction which is counterproductive to your goal.

My god.

Indeed, I probably would have tendency to interpret hesitation as rejection. When, in reality, like you said, it may have more to do with external things.

Now -for the first time - I think I have just seen another pattern of my unhealthy behavior. My communication in the past could often be "demanding"-sounding - when, deep down, I now think it is just a "tough" mask for avoiding tender feelings of rejection. In an attempt to avoid feeling rejected, I would come across as "tough".

Wow. Thank you for this eye opener.

 xoxo
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Auspicious
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« Reply #123 on: April 04, 2012, 04:46:46 AM »

I think schwing nailed it  Doing the right thing  Good job.


Remember, SunflowerFields, that we can't read the other person'n mind. As you are realizing, hesitation can mean many things. not just (or even usually, I think) rejection.

Personally, I almost always hesitate - it just takes me longer to think about things than it does for many other people. Especially, I might add, things that they are asking me - things that they have already been thinking about and preparing to ask, but of course I have not smiley
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SunflowerFields
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« Reply #124 on: April 04, 2012, 06:09:43 PM »

Personally, I almost always hesitate - it just takes me longer to think about things than it does for many other people. Especially, I might add, things that they are asking me - things that they have already been thinking about and preparing to ask, but of course I have not smiley

Thanks Aus, this is very helpful to know.

Would you mind elaborating a bit on this?

Why do you think it takes you time to think? What goes through your mind when you're thinking?

Curious minds want to know smiley
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Auspicious
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« Reply #125 on: April 05, 2012, 08:05:54 AM »

Personally, I almost always hesitate - it just takes me longer to think about things than it does for many other people. Especially, I might add, things that they are asking me - things that they have already been thinking about and preparing to ask, but of course I have not smiley

Thanks Aus, this is very helpful to know.

Would you mind elaborating a bit on this?

Why do you think it takes you time to think? What goes through your mind when you're thinking?

Depends on the subject, I guess. Could be lots of things.

-Maybe I didn't hear the whole sentence, and I'm trying to figure out just what was asked.

-Maybe I was thinking about something else, and now I have to shift gears

-Maybe I'm thinking about the request, and deciding what I think about it

And everybody is different ... answering more slowly than some is just my style. Some people do all their thinking out loud, I do it mostly in my head, and then speak when I've reached a conclusion.


But that's just me. Someone else could be (or seem to be) hesitating for other reasons.

The point is, you don't know why someone is taking longer than you hope or expect to answer. And assuming is likely to be incorrect.

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« Reply #126 on: June 07, 2012, 05:23:13 PM »

I think validation is really a tool for all r/s.  it's just that our bpd SOs appear to have more acute a need for it.  For me validation is ensuring our loved one feels as though we listened... Not just heard... Listened.

It's tough as we don't often get the same consideration in return.

But they are the ill one.

I'm a bit of a hesitant too sometimes.

My ubpdw reads that as... Being ignorant, planning a lie, or being dishonest and not telling her what I really think.

It seems their minds rush faster than ours.  I take longer to gear change myself and I have not yet formulated an opinion on all of life's big questions... Hence the noise of cogs turning when I get asked for an opinion.
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« Reply #127 on: November 07, 2012, 04:29:19 AM »

Just want to share this with you to encourage you all, how validation works and what I have learnt.

I get a text from dd saying

I cant stand living here some idiot turned the dishwasher off at the plug hidden in cupboard and I just spent 20 minutes loading it making it all ready and I go to turn it on and spend the next half hour trying to fix it so so annoyed and they keep turning the heating off and Im trying to dry clothes its so so horrible.

My reply

Oh gosh how come they keep doing that, so bad you must be so annoyed

Her reply
Yeah but its always nice to talk about it.

My reply

What are you going to do about it

Well I might tell landlord, I have just made a lovely chocolate milkshake with bannanas in bla bla bla!


All happy now. That felt so good for me.
She keeps moaning how cold it is there, when I went I couldnt wait to get out its boiling, no wonder they keep turning the heating off.

Imagine, when we didnt know about all this stuff and we never validated, it would just make them worse and feel even lower and more rubbish than they did before. So why didnt they teach me this stuff when we got diagnosis. Crazy eh
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peaceplease
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« Reply #128 on: November 07, 2012, 06:56:52 AM »

 Doing the right thing
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« Reply #129 on: November 07, 2012, 08:04:49 AM »

Heron,

Good job with the validation!  It helps when there are stories of how the technique works.

mik
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« Reply #130 on: January 05, 2013, 03:03:53 PM »

Ok.  So if I understand you correctly.  If the person is "Waify or Angel or whatever it is the time to "validate".  But not when they are "Witchy".  Because when my daughter is Witchy she is downright abusive and dangerous for my emotions (almost deadly for me emotionally).  I have my own troubles and do not always recognize what is going on until later. . . and then it just haunts me and I can't sleep or even function...  
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« Reply #131 on: January 06, 2013, 04:22:15 AM »

Validation is not cotton candy. Validation is communication. Communication of even sometimes unpleasant facts.

For communication to happen someone needs to be able to receive that communication. In some cases it is clear. In some other cases the receiver is dysregulated and may not hear. Or may hear but not be able to respond in that time. Of may twist everything in the mind and get invalidated and even more upset.

When someone is "Wichty" what is happening?
  - person is angry (that can be validated although it is a bit unspecific)
  - person tries to hurt you (that can be validated)
  - person is so abusive that you do not feel safe and leave for some time for the person to cool down (that can be validated. See also boundary/timeout workshops)
  - person is emotionally excited and you step up also display of emotional excitement (i.e. not staying deliberately calm outside and thus invalidating)

Some will work and some other will not. In general when a person is beyond a certain excitement level engagement is best not to engage. Still reality forces some things on us we may need to communicate. Keeping validation in mind prevents us from doing damage - namely invalidation. People seldom praise good service but everyone complains about bad service. The same with validation and invalidation. The latter sticks a lot longer around. Often AVOIDING INVALIDATION is the best we can do and the value of that is not to be laughed at.

Note: Sticking around for abuse is not a good idea and boundaries are essential. But there are cases where one can not escape. And in any case all abuse starts at some time and around that time it is sometimes not yet clear how things develop yet so there is a Grey area.
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somuchlove
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« Reply #132 on: January 24, 2013, 08:44:48 PM »

I have skimmed through the posts below.  I am taking an easy way, instead of spending a couple hrs going over things here on the site, to just ask some questions.  I have so much work to do with school and just don't have the energy to read all this wonderful information so forgive me for asking questions that I am sure are on here.  The other thing is my dd is going through some stuff "again"  and I am just so worn out I need help to think and how to respond.

A couple weeks ago she text me that I needed to get custody of her dd, because she couldn't deal with stuff, ( she has 3 great kids) and was going to kill herself that night.  This goes into many things, because she has never really tried.  It appears to be words that wants to get our attention, or I hate things right now, I want to hurt you...     We live across the country so to get there it is 6-8 hrs to fly.

She really isn't talking to me over something about 4 months ago but now today I got a text saying she has to move, bf is cruel, lying, and so mean.  I know he is just fed up with all she puts him through.  This happens about every couple months about she needing to move out.  They have a 1 yr old together.  What I have trouble with is , how to valadate her feelings.  I can't find the correct words.  Valadation is >> >>  Am I right, we are not to say I am sorry you feel this way,  What can I do, I am just at a lost for how to say things.  I have avoided calling her today, even though I know I should.  I am just so scared after reading all this stuff I am going to say the wrong way.  I know from her reactions that I don't say it right.  I am trying to set boundaries, like we can't afford to help her move again, out of a situation.  She just starts dwelling on things wrong.  if there is nothing really then she obsesses over something else and on and on ...   that is the story.  just won't be happy.
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« Reply #133 on: January 25, 2013, 08:34:14 AM »

somuchlove, you can't control  how she reacts. Validation is not a tool to control how someone else reacts.

What exactly is she saying?  What emotions is she expressing?

Possible validation might include:

"Wow, that does sound awful."

"That's pretty painful."

"Yeah, that sucks. I wish that hadn't happened too."

"You must have been very upset."
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somuchlove
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« Reply #134 on: January 29, 2013, 12:44:29 PM »

As I am re reading these posts, i keep trying to have my responses more automatic.  Sometimes, I say,  I am so sorry, or that is tough.  Those seem to be my, IF I DON"T KNOW WHAT to SAY words.  Sometimes when I think I am validating my dd acts as if she thinks I am being the counselor role.    Perhaps when she calls or text i just go blank.  That is why, I guess we have to practice and practice what to say.  When I really listen to what she is trying to say instead of the words that she is saying I do a better job. 

How many times have I heard this.  Maybe it is sinking in.  IF it takes me this long I can only imagine how long it will take my dd to figure out I really care, etc.
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« Reply #135 on: February 27, 2013, 07:54:12 PM »

This could end up so twisted...  

He gets angry for something I didn't do:

I can see that you are angry about the (insert thing I didn't do or say, actually he did it) and I think it's an annoying/inconsiderate thing as well. I'd feel angry too if someone did that to me/if this happened to me.

BUT THE TRUTH IS YOU SAID THAT! ok no I wouldn't do that...   but I'd be thinking it.  wink

So how do we validate them about their feelings about something that didn't happen/false accusations?

I've done my own version of this back in the days before I had a spine and I feel it enabled him.



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« Reply #136 on: April 10, 2013, 09:47:54 AM »


So how do we validate them about their feelings about something that didn't happen/false accusations?

Interesting read this topic.
I wish I had found this site before. Could have helped me (us?) when we were together.

I'm interested in the answer to Themis question. Anybody?
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Auspicious
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« Reply #137 on: April 13, 2013, 05:50:10 AM »


So how do we validate them about their feelings about something that didn't happen/false accusations?

Interesting read this topic.
I wish I had found this site before. Could have helped me (us?) when we were together.

I'm interested in the answer to Themis question. Anybody?

Emotional validation is about emotions, not facts (or "facts"). It's also just one tool in the toolbox, and not always the one to use at every given moment.

That said, you can emotionally validate even when you totally dispute the facts.

"Wow; you're pretty upset."

"Yeah, if I thought she was mean, then I wouldn't want to be around her either."

"If you see it that way, then I don't blame you for feeling that way about it."

Depending on the situation, there is usually no need to actively dispute the facts (and also no need for you to agree with the facts).

Might they pick up on the fact that you aren't agreeing with the facts? Might they push you to agree on the facts?  Of course. But you don't have to do what they want there. We all want things; we don't always get them. You can even validate their frustration:

"I know it's frustrating that we don't see the facts of this situation the same way. That makes sense; I'd be frustrated too."

You are offering the soothing balm of validation. You can't make them take it. But many times, especially after a period of coming to trust your new approach, they often will.
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« Reply #138 on: April 14, 2013, 11:49:45 AM »

Hi Auspicious

Thanks for your answer. I understand what you're saying, but for me some accusations are that bad, that even validation of emotions feels not good.
For example: my stbxw has claimed that I have hit her several times, that I DIDN'T do.
How can you validate that one, without breaking yourself down?
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Auspicious
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« Reply #139 on: April 14, 2013, 12:51:12 PM »

Hi Auspicious

Thanks for your answer. I understand what you're saying, but for me some accusations are that bad, that even validation of emotions feels not good.
For example: my stbxw has claimed that I have hit her several times, that I DIDN'T do.
How can you validate that one, without breaking yourself down?

You don't. You don't validate "facts"; you validate emotions.

What emotions would you be trying to validate here?
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