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Boy
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« on: October 09, 2008, 10:35:59 AM » |
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Hi
My ex BF Has a long history of short but intense relationships.
I ve already read the article: 'how a borderline relationship evolves' and it gave me more insight in BDP s relationships.
But i was wondering if anyone knows more about the devaluation ‘stage’, when does it start, how do you recognize that, do they become suspicious to their loved one, do they become aggressive, do they need more attention from their friends then in the beginning stage of the relationship? Etc
What I noticed was, that, after 1- 2months, he (the BDP) suddenly needed more attention from others, friends, relatives and even new people (strangers), the attention from their loved one is not enough anymore at that stage.
Is devaluation a kind of, a dream that’s falling to pieces?
Is this correct?
Feel free to post your story and thoughts
Kind regards
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Bitzee
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 09:02:42 AM » |
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Devaluation is when they suddenly behave as if they don't value you anymore. They become inexplicably cool toward you for no discernible rhyme or reason. And they seem to have no memory of how much they adored you yesterday.
They may be doing this as a reaction to feeling abandoned. And they may feel abandoned at the *slightest* sign of rejection from someone. It may be something as inconsequential as you showing up 10 minutes late for a date. Or they might imagine you were paying attention to someone else in a sexual way, etc. Many things can trigger their fear of abandonment.
They also typically devalue their partners at times when a relationship is becoming especially close or is about to move to a new level... this also triggers their fear of abandonment. Things have become too close, they become frightened, and they push the partner away. Often, this response is an automatic reaction, more of a reflex, and not something to which they give much conscious thought. And they truly can forget how much they cared about you yesterday... they live very much in the moment... and their mood of the moment is all encompassing, they can forget everything else.
Devaluation is usually a part of a cycle of Idealization and Devaluation. They go back and forth between these two extremes of feeling for their partner. This is the push/pull dynamic of BPD. They devalue and push the partner away until there is too much distance... at which point, they will begin again to idealize the partner and try to pull them back in.
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JoannaK
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 12:18:12 PM » |
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Have you seen our Workshop on Splitting? http://www.bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62033.0;allIn my opinion, the devaluation starts when they realize that you can't keep all of their demons at bay after all. When a person with bpd embarks on a new relationship, they count on that relationship to fill all of the emptiness, all of the misery that is inside of them. When it doesn't work (as nobody can fill the internal emptiness of another person), the devaluation begins. I'm not saying that this explains all of the devaluation for everybody with bpd, but I think it is a very strong element. |
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GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT
This board is intended for general questions about BPD and other personality disorders, trait definitions, and related therapies and diagnostics. Topics should be formatted as a question.
Please do not host topics related to the specific pwBPD in your life - those discussions should be hosted on an appropraite [L1] - [L4] board.
You will find indepth information provided by our senior members in our workshop board discussions (click here).
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Skip
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 12:41:36 PM » |
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Is devaluation a kind of a dream that’s falling to pieces?
I suspect that is what drives it. When a person affected with BPD falls in love, they see you very much the way the act, as a super wonderful human being. You are their soulmate. This relationship will fill their life and will finally make them feel loved and whole. Depending how wonderful Mr. Wonderful is (that is how I was described) and how stressful their life is - probably determines how long it takes. I think devaluation often takes place in waves - in the beginning they see you as wonderful 100% of the time, then 80%, then 60% - you get the idea. We tend to feed these cycles. When they first start to devalue us, we try harder... and it works for a little while. There is a very confusing period when your partner starts feeling their dreams slip away as you are reaching new levels in your love and attraction to them... Just some thoughts... curious to see what others say. Skippy |
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gertrude
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 01:26:32 PM » |
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That's a good question boy - and I think of that one often - when it started out with me and my ex - he was floating - I could tell he really adored me and it was very flattering - but he still did and said some strange things that were designed to undermine my self confidence. I wrote about devaluing us in a previous post - I agree with Joanna - that when they first meet us and they are feeling euphoria and happiness - they are probably thinking that their pain will now be gone forever. Well, obviously we cannot fix the misery inside of them, at least not permanently, and when their bpd feelings start filtering back, I believe they blame us - that we cannot keep them happy or peaceful - and that's when the fun really begins.
Mine was bad enough - but toward the end he was making fun of me, rarely had a good word to say about me, told me that saying "I love you" should be reserved only for special occasions (since he managed to walk out on me on most special occasions there would have been little opportunity to say I love you.) A most interesting thing that he started doing - and this is when I realized that I had had enough, is that we would be sitting at dinner - I would be talking - and he would ignore me - but not like he was peoccupied - it was as tho he was actively ignoring me - like he wanted me to know that he heard me but I wasn't worth responding to. I would say something funny and he would just sit there doing his Mount Rushmore imitation. All I know is that I was feeling worse and worse and less loved and appreciated and I decided that I hadn't seen anything yet and wasn't sticking around for what I believed was yet to come.
So, it was the hardest thing I ever did, but I told him to leave. And now, I feel a lot better. I know I don't necessarily need someone to make me feel good about myself, altho a caring person would be nice, but I definitely know that I don't need someone in my life who is trying to make me feel bad about myself and undermine my self confidence. Yes, they definitely devalue us over time. Who needs that in their lives? Carol
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Boy
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 11:27:41 AM » |
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Hi , many thanks for the information. and the link to the workshop  there s a lot more on there! I experienced that my ex BF Devaluated me and it took only a few hours/days! very intense and suddenly he acted cool and distant. Then he dumped me, and he found someone else (to replace me) a few days later. In a way I think he used it as a punishment, leaving and hurting me. And after 1/2 a month - 2 months, he couldn’t resist it anymore to make contact with me again. I was much of the time the best person he ever had met. I m curious to see how long it takes before he devaluates this guy and dumps him. He never had a relationship that lasted longer then 2 months (me and the BDP was a push pull over more then a year, I don’t know how I did it). I would be quite surprised if he suddenly manages to stay with a guy for more then 2 months without having trouble… I don’t think that’s possible…. Regards |
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Im.okay.now
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2008, 03:33:41 PM » |
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A most interesting thing that he started doing - and this is when I realized that I had had enough, is that we would be sitting at dinner - I would be talking - and he would ignore me - but not like he was peoccupied - it was as tho he was actively ignoring me - like he wanted me to know that he heard me but I wasn't worth responding to. I would say something funny and he would just sit there doing his Mount Rushmore imitation. All I know is that I was feeling worse and worse and less loved and appreciated and I decided that I hadn't seen anything yet and wasn't sticking around for what I believed was yet to come. I know how you feel ... that has happened to me many, many times ! BTW ..sorry ... but that "Mount Rushmore imitation" comment is hilarious ! |
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StrongThanILook
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Posts: 36
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 08:19:08 PM » |
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They also typically devalue their partners at times when a relationship is becoming especially close or is about to move to a new level... this also triggers their fear of abandonment. Things have become too close, they become frightened, and they push the partner away. This is one of the truest statements about my relationship with my BPDso.The truth behind this lies in that BPD's (in my experience) do not push away those who are not close to them. Why? Well.. duh, they aren't close and there is no need to push away. Fear. They don't fear abandonment from people that they truly don't care about. If you weren't getting close, this wouldn't even be an issue. Eventually, I learned to look at this as a good sign! It's one of the few times you can say "He does it (whatever horrible thing the BPD has done) because he loves me." and potentially be right about it. Within reason of course. I'm not trying to be delusional, just trying to put a positive spin on it. Incidentally, I when this happened to me, I was unaware of BPD itself but had an idea of why he was pushing away. When I reacted with love to all his horrid emotional/verbal attacks and all his attempts to distance me failed to make me bolt on him, he went REALLY haywire and became very confused. No one ever did that before. I went through a zillion defense mechanisms and moved several levels closer the whole time he was blasting me and I really had no idea what was going on. He's in therapy now and things are going so much better . Good thing, but it was a total accident. |
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C2
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2008, 02:46:00 PM » |
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Strong,
Those have been my experiences, as well. I've had two BP romantic partners, both of whom dumped me the day I returned from vacation (perceived abandonment) but at a time when we were also discussing moving the relationship to the next level (pushing intimacy limits). I learned that telling them they are loved, I will let them sort things out, I can forgive them, etc., just made everything worse=I was most devalued. Both were at their angriest (distance and unpleasant emails, never raging or violence) when I gave them the most love. I wasn't aware of BPD when #1 left me. I was prepared for #2 and knew just to back off and say "OK, let's just be friends."
The problem is I WOULD like to stay friends with BP #2. I'm worried that I will become attractive to him again once he perceives a little distance between us. If I have moved on with my life, I will be able to resist his re-infatuation. If he catches me at a low point, I know I could get sucked in again.
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mhs0181
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2008, 09:53:02 PM » |
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In my experience...devaluation didn't really begin until he had hooked me. The devaluation became worse and worse as time went on. In a "normal" relationship two people become closer the longer they are together. I found in my BPD relationship...it was the opposite. The longer we were together the more he seemed to devalue me. Ugh.
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snowwhite
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Posts: 188
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2008, 04:35:11 PM » |
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I actually believe this is a chemical problem in the brain. When someone is new, they attract more attention and the brain produces certain chemicals we associate with attraction. However, as a normal relationship matures, this infatuation is replaced by common interests, memories and contentment. Since the bpd doesn't store emotional memories correctly in their brain, they don't have that to call on. Therefore, when the infatuation stage is over, they literally are not producing the brain chemicals necessary to continue to function in the relationship. Yes, they can control themselves when with others. The attention of those others produces the correct brain chemicals that provide a sense of emotional well being.
You might try reading the book "Get Me Out of Here" by a woman who truly seems to be a recovered borderline. It chronicles her years of intense therapy as she explains to her psychiatrist what she is feeling. She talks about the intense need she had for the interest of others in the room.
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StrongThanILook
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Posts: 36
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2008, 09:01:14 AM » |
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Of course, it's easy now for me to write about how it's all worth it because he's in the "idealization" stage at the moment and things are fantastic (so there I go defending). But, when he is devaluing, acting like our relationship isn't important or we don't have a future, making me seem too weak to handle him, making me feel worthless or my ideas stupid, it takes everything I have not to let it suck the life out of me. It never helps to argue, but I will testify that in my case, calling his bluff has worked on several occasions. He's really come a long way and is learning boundaries.
I also had the problem of getting "sucked back in" a few times except instead of trying to re-infatuate me, he would admit things about me getting too close, him needing help and ask for time and patience. It might be niave but I tend to think it was sincere and considering he did get help, I'm giving him the time and patience he asked for. When he makes big progress, I fall in love with him all over again anyway.
There are definitely days when I question things... like when they adjust his meds or when something goes wrong with his family. I typically get the brunt of it but also understand that those things don't have to with me. Devaluation is dehumanizing and under certain circumstances, it helps to get the heck out of there, distance yourself and go be with uplifting friends or family who can help you see straight, get yourself grounded again.
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phin
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« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 07:58:18 PM » |
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In my relationship I can remember lots of devaluing behavior, but i guess thats the splitting? One day i'm great, the next day I'm all bad, but the real devaluation came a year before she left. I had been really really busy on a house remodel that was clearly going to break our budget. I worked night and day to make things work out, but had little time for her. She pretty clearly stated her desperate needs for attention. I did my best but I had to do what was necessary to have a home to live in (the remodel was becoming more extensive because she wanted things to meet her standards). I told her I too felt like we weren't getting enough time together but assured her once the house was finished we would have plenty of time. She started crying and said "I just want you to know, I'm giving up". Talk about putting a guy between a rock and a hard place (a content wife and no home to live in, or a home to live in and an upset wife). It was never the same from that day on. Once the house was finished I made sure i set aside ample time to try and "re-connect" but it never happened. Maybe it was better off, if i had known there was no repairing our relationship after that I would have caved and probably been homeless now.
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stpmom
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2008, 10:31:11 AM » |
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Mt. Rushmore, that is it.
They get to shun you whiel enjoying the results. sick, sick, sick.
I had this experience. After shunning me for 2yrs. stpD wanted to make amends. She apologized for a couple of little things, a couple of vague things, said she didn't want to get into detail. Asked me how I felt and how she had harmed me and what I wanted for restitution. When I told her she met it with more shunning. What I was hurt by was the shunning. All she wanted was to find out how she could hurt me in a way that mattered the most.
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