PERSPECTIVES: How do we know if we love our BPD parents?

[Think About It...]

How do we know if we love our BPD parents?

We often hear people say, "I love my mother/father, but..."

In this workshop, based on a thread started by OZtoAZ that sparked a lot of thought in other members, we would like to explore the question  How do you REALLY know you LOVE your BPD parent(s)?  What does that look like? Feel like?

[blackandwhite]

How do we know if we love our BPD parents?

We often hear people say, "I love my mother/father, but..."

In this workshop, based on a thread started by OZtoAZ that sparked a lot of thought in other members, we would like to explore the question  How do you REALLY know you LOVE your BPD parent(s)?  What does that look like? Feel like?

[stellaris]

Do I love my mother?  After all the abuse, the cripping damage she inflicted?

Well, I WANT to love her.  I WANT her to love me.  I want the wonderful, creative, loving mother she could be sometimes.  I want the wonderful birthdays, the handmade quilt and scarf, the rocking to sleep, the cool hand on my feverish forehead.  I want to rewind-erase the screaming rages, the neglectful indifference, the selfish manipulation.

I want her to call me, write me, and say "I'm so sorry, I was so messed up, my own parents were abusive and I didn't know how to be  a mother.  I tried for you, I know I failed.  You were so good and I made it so hard for you and I just wasn't strong enough."

And you know - that's there.  I know somewhere in there she's aware of that reality.  She's said as much to my sister - but she won't step up and say it to me.

So do I love her?  There's nothing more natural, more automatic, than a child's love for his or her mother - and a child's need for mother's love in return.  I love my son with quiet pride, I love my wife deeply and passionately.  I love my aunts, who were more a mother to me than my own ever was, my uncles, my close friends.  My mother - no, not anymore.  She has kicked and beaten that out of me over the years.  I think the potential to love her again is still there, if she could ever step up, but even that is dying slowly with time.  The slow fading of that spark is probably the saddest thing in my life, and I'm torn between once again trying to salvage something and my feeling that no, this time it is HER turn to actually act like a parent for a change.

Relationships are like bank accounts - they only hold what you put into them.  Those nine months of pregnancy put a lot in the bank for any mom, but if you keep taking out more than you put in, eventually they're empty.


Chris

[Deserve to be happy]

I think that real love is unconditional.  I unconditionally love my husband and sons.  There isn't anything they have to fear about losing my love.  My mother never loved me unconditionally.  She only showed me love if I was her happy little robot meeting her every need.  I loved my mom unconditionally even after her relentless beatings and verbal attacks.   I loved her so much that I thought her behavior was "normal" and did not even know I was suffering from the worst case of emotional abuse.  Eventually, when I was away from her long enough to recognize "normal" behavior, I started questioning my relationship with her.  The longer and farther I was away from her the more "clearer" my thinking got.  Until a couple years ago, Mother's Day I was looking for a card to express my love.  None of the cards represented my true feelings about her.  I love her in the sense that I respect her as a human being but I don't love my mother "unconditionally" anymore like I do my husband and kids.  I don't hate her and I still pray every night for her well being but I'm not willing to love this women unconditionally only to be abused.  I also understand and respect all those that have come to the conclusion that they don't love their mom.  Only you know what's best for you.

[Marley]

Hi, I am new to this board. I have gone full circle with my probably BPD mother, but have to say I do love her. I do not like her, nor do I wish to be with her, or speak to her, and I certainly do not want to go and live in her strange emotional reality with her, but if I ever found a way to help her deal with her condition that does not compromise my own happiness - it is an illness after all - then I would try.

Note that I have not been physically abused so that does make it a little diferent for me.

[OZtoAZ]

These comments from each of you are SO interesting and helpful!  It's relieving to read them--and hear each of your perspectives.   Thank you!  I am glad to know I am not the only one out there who has pondered the "love" question.  Reading these responses is very helpful and validating.  Keep 'em coming!

To all of you:  I wish you the Happiest of Holidays.  I know each of you carry your own burdens, given the BPD(s) in your life (past or present)...so I hope that you get the chance to carve your own traditions, happiness, and spend time with the genuine loved ones in you lives.

[Sasha026]

Yes, I love my mother. Unfortunately, she will never permit love. Never has, never will. I am only as good as my last sale.

I have gone so far over the edge to show her love. I have run to her, babied her, sat with her, ruined my marriage for her, given her everything, taken care of her... and on and on. But, sadly, to no avail.

Nothing ever came back. But... I had hope, so I kept on trying. Just recently, I gave up hope. While, it did give me some peace of mind to know that I finally realized my limits, I feel sort of sad. I regret that I made a terrible mistake all of my life by trying to achieve the unachievable. I've wasted years.

The problem is that it's is really not in my control. You cannot GIVE them love, they won't take it, don't understand it. Borderlines are emotional vampires, they will take and take, but never give. My mother would dangle the "carrot of love" just long enough to convince me that it could be possible, yanking it away as I eagerly grabbed for it, leaving me frustrated and angry.

They like anger. Comfortable with pain. I think, sometimes, it's the only emotions that they can understand. It's so sad. I had so much love to give, but, she just didn't want it.

[inshock]

I am late in reading this post. But it struck a cord with me.  I have never had a bad relationship with my mother. She was not abusive in the usual sense...no screaming, no crazy antics, no hitting.  But she was so involved with her own troubles (agoraphobia, depression, divorce, dating, drinking) and so involved with my bpsister(whom I have posted about), that I was left to survive on my own.  In fact from the time I was in junior high school, I felt more mature, more stable, and more put together than my own mother. I feel like my mother's mother. ? Now that she is elderly and really does need her children's help, I find it difficult because I resent the responsiblity and expectations placed on me.  But more importantly, I resent how I was ignored.  My needs (beyond food and clothing) were never her priority.  To this day, since my bpsister has hurt our family with her craziness, my mother concentrates on my "poor" sister rather than the significant pain I have been through. 

So to answer the question, Do I love my mother ?, I don't think so in the sense of real mutual caring.  I feel obligated, I feel guilty, I feel an urge to try to make her "normal", I feel like I need to tolerate her, I feel the need to help her...but I don't feel true connectedness for her.

Her neglect was abuse.  Sometimes I wonder if I have ever so slightly neglected my daughter in certain areas.  I remember when she was in middle school, I really felt she didn't need me.  I don't have a compass to know how much kids need their parents because I wasn't cared for.  It is so complicated...but this post makes me realize how important it is to maintain healthy, happy, relationships with your children.  I would die if I knew my daughter was posting about not loving me. How awful.

And I really relate about the Mother's Day card thing.  Since I was a preteen, I never could find an appropriate mother's day card.  Hallmark doesn't make cards for the abusive and neglectful mother...Now there is an idea.

[twingles]

Good thread,it really got me thinking. I have been NC with my mother for over 5weeks and I have to say this forum has made really think about really good questions our relationship. I would like to love my mother but she has pushed me away,trying to test my love for her.I decided that I'm harboring deep angry resentment towards her for trying to make me think that my dad was a bad guy(cheating on her and such) But it takes two doesn't it? She decided that she did not like men and  became a lesbian(not sure if this is real,I have never seen her with anyone). I always tried to protect her for all these years from having to spend life alone because what HE did to her. I realize that I have been duped because I only got her side and so that is what I believed, because she was my mom and would only tell me the truth.I realize that what ever occurred with the divorce I can say that I am sure she was the one testing his love by"pushing" him away like she had done to me.( I'm not saying he was right,he did cheat,he handled it poorly,should have left the marraige first of course)  She really was the one who probably,in reality, initially broke up the marraige not my dad.That being said I can answer the question "do I love my mom" I thought I did,now,not so sure. That's scary for me!

[justhere]

Thanks mwBPD for bringing up this thread.

I just posted on another thread that I love my uBPD/NPDm and uBPDs and that really got me thinking as something didn't feel right about what I posted.  Do I really love them or do I just think I do or think that I'm supposed to?  
Why was the first thing I posted when I wanted to talk about how I wanted my mom and my sister out of my life forever was that I loved her, that I loved them?I wonder is it is a way of rationalization or compensation for my thoughts about how I really feel or maybe its the way I think of love.

As I grew up thinking love was synonymous with pain, I'm not sure what I think now.  When I think of my mom or my sister I just get upset and anxious and I don't want to see them or even talk to them..  I feel more a sense of duty and responsibility towards my mom because I think I feel sorry for her because she is so helpless, unhappy and old now but my sister I don't really feel much of anything but a little regret that it couldn't be different.  

I know I love my children because I feel the warmth and good inside and I look forward to seeing them and spending time with them. So I know how to love in the way that love should be so I'm not sure how I found my way to love my children the way I do and why I think differently about my mom and my sister.

 I know I want to love my mom and for my mom to love me the way I need to be loved but so far that's not happening and I'm just getting little crumbs now and then to keep me bound to her but sometimes I almost wish she'd do something that would allow me to end it with her.  I think with my mom and my sister my love for them means more the absence of pain then anything else and the absence of pain is not love but only relief that the abuse has stopped for the time being.

[healinghome]

this is a great thread and really good timing for me. i'm going through the fog of mothers day here in the uk, which really sucks.  having never really experienced love so far, its hard for me to know if i love uBPDm or not. someone said on here that if we have to question it, chances are we don't love them. i think like most here, i got brainwashed into believing what they decided love was to control and abuse me and am now re-learning the truth.

the only emotion i could say was love was when i see my niece and nephew.  it was like my chest caved in, i felt this enormous wave of what i could only say was love that almost made me cry.  when ever i saw them i felt it, i been trying to learn how to express it in a healthy manner ever since. do i feel any flicker of that for uBPDm or npdf? nope.  just as liondreamer said, i wish my biological parents happiness and a good life, but preferably a long way away from me.

[anker]

I love my mom. Crazy as she is and was. She had me at seventeen. A kid really.

It messed up her life...but she never said that to me. She made tons of mistakes with me. She didn't get any help til I was in my twenties. She is a different person now. And I love her.

The damage she did to me sucks. I am trying to find ways to address it...I've talked to her about some things and she has said "I know, my god, what was I thinking. I'm so sorry"

She still has stuff about her I can't stand but I do live her.

[poodlemom]

Thanks mwBPD for bringing up this thread.


 When I think of my mom or my sister I just get upset and anxious and I don't want to see them or even talk to them..  I feel more a sense of duty and responsibility towards my mom because I think I feel sorry for her because she is so helpless, unhappy and old now but my sister I don't really feel much of anything but a little regret that it couldn't be different.  

I know I love my children because I feel the warmth and good inside and I look forward to seeing them and spending time with them. So I know how to love in the way that love should be so I'm not sure how I found my way to love my children the way I do and why I think differently about my mom and my sister.

  I think with my mom my love means more the absence of pain then anything else

These could have been my exact words... x

[finally]

love it...this is me...i could of written this
When I look at my father I think there is a man who would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it.  There is a man who is just as broken and battered as I am, though probably worse.  There is a man I enjoy spending time with and one day I will miss him with all my heart.  He is my father and I am proud to be his daughter.  I may be a product of mother's creation but I have enough steel in me that I am definitely my Daddy's girl. 
 

[healinghome]

i'm also in a really weird place right now.  i woke up this morning to an email from my ensis about her coming over from abroad for 7 weeks because uBPDm is about to go into hospital for reconstructive breast surgery. i'm back to nc, stronger than ever with the inner knowing now, that i cannot help her and that she truly feels nothing for me, only her own panic and needs. i know that contact with her is abusive to me and not looking after me.

i think because of the safety and inner strength i have created and found, i have been having a lot of nightmares lately too, that are almost like memories of feelings i had in my childhood around her.  they aren't pretty, just the way she looks at me, like an object, she expresses no feelings toward me but resentment and bitterness.  how me and my sisters tried to 'rescue' her so many times, only for it all to be a game of manipulation and attention for her.  its chilling but also really sad.  i think i did love her and probably a part of me always will, but that love was used against me and is unhealthy for me to act on.  so i'm learning how to deal with that love.  its hard to have an emotion and not express it.  because when i feel love or compassion for others, i tell them or act in a way that i believe expresses it.  to feel love for someone but know it only involves abuse if i try to express it, is hard to live with.  but if the alternative is abuse, i'll learn.

[healinghome]

That's how I feel about my FOO. Thanks for posting this. 

glad to hear you can relate

[frtbt2]

I ask myself if I love my mother all of the time. Love is something you just know though, if I'm asking then I probably don't. She'll say it to me and it's almost painful to try to say it back, so I don't. I haven't for a while. I don't love my mother. I used to, I tried so hard; she can't accept that though.

[Taylor83]

I have been asking myself this a lot lately as well.  Do I love my mother?  When I talk to my therapist I am not comfortable saying I do because I don't believe I do.  For a long time I did hate my mother and resent her for how I was treated. 

But then I started moving away from hate to indifference.  It made me wonder if indifference is more the opposite of love than hate?  Both love and hate require a strong emotional attachment with the other individual which is either positive or negative.  Indifference, however, does not require that emotional attachment.  You have gotten to the point where you don't care which is more the opposite of love.

Now, I seem to be moving away from this indifference to compassion and more understanding.  I still have some resentment, and of course my emotions and feelings can change from day to day.  However, I do believe there is another component to the question of whether we love them or not besides the opposite being to hate.  Sometimes we have just moved to indifference.

I hope that makes sense to some. 

[CrazyNoMore]

Good question.

After going NC all those years ago, my mantra was, "I wish her no ill."  I wasn't wishing her dead, or wishing someone would treat her as badly as she treated me, or some other misfortune to befall her.  All I really wanted was for her to leave me alone for once. 

I can honestly say that I didn't much like her.  She was not a likeable person. I can never quite bring myself to say I hate her.  But I can honestly say that I wanted what was best for her.  Now, we had VERY different ideas of what was "best for her."  For her, it was simply Do What I Want, Without Question, Immediately.  For me, I always wished  she would find some way of developing her own happiness and not needing to suck it out of me. 

So I dunno.  Is that love?  Is it just me managing my own emotions toward her?  Is it detachment on my part?  Is it a lack of any emotion at all?  I don't know. 

[poodlemom]

R4,
Yes, that's the exact feeling I have too!  Thx for putting it into words so concisely.

[ennie]

Interesting topic.  Right now, my SD7 and SD11 definitely do love their BPD mom.  It is my experience that the number one reason for kids not loving step-parents is that the child does not feel loved.  I wonder if that is also true with moms and dads--but with a time delay.  Seems like all kids or most kids love their parents while they feel dependent.  Other kids are parentified and love their parents as a parent loves a child.  But when the child become more independent, a lot of children of BPD parents do not feel love.  My experience with how BPD mom relates to her kids is as need-gratifying objects.  When the kids are young, this is more satisfying, as she hugs them, kisses them, sleeps with them, giving them a sense of being loved and close.  But as they get older, they have more needs for autonomy and being treated like people.  And then, it becomes more obvious that mom is not there for them, but for herself.  When there is a conflict between the kids' needs and mom's needs, mom's needs always win.  It then becomes clear that there are limits on mom's ability to love. 

I think it is hard  to love people who do not love us, particularly if they are close or in a role that we are led to believe are supposed to love us...like a mom.  I think kids need to love mom to feel safe, if she is a primary caretaker.  But it is hard for our heart to stay open to people who do not love us or notice us as separate people. 

I am very curious about how the kids will experience their mom as they grow up.  What DH and I work with them on is that it is possible to love someone without agreeing with them.  That you can be your own person, and say no, have boundaries, and still love someone.  I would like to help the kids to be able not to hate their mom.  I personally think hate is a word for strong anger coupled with powerlessness.  I hope that my SDs can know that they are powerful, at least over themselves.  My best efforts in that direction, I think, are to let them know that they are powerful with me, even when I am upset, and to allow them to see how they influence me.  Having a BPD mom feels powerless, I think, for them.  No matter how "good" they are, mom is hard to influence.  That is painful to witness.  I can see how this level of powerlessness feels like hatred--I have moments of that with BPD mom, and I barely see her.  I suppose I can see being powerless to influence someone as being related to not being loved by that person.  Loving someone means being able to be profoundly influenced by them.  Being loved is inherently powerful.