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Author Topic: How did your relationship evolve?  (Read 13580 times)
Auspicious
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« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2011, 08:43:07 AM »

and I also truly see that she really is a pathetic person who is very needy and childlike.  

Have you explored why you want to be with someone who you see as a "pathetic person" and "childlike"? Why are "pathetic" and "childlike" attractive to you?


like last week I was planning on staying home on the weekend for the first time in months and Sunday came and I caved.  I called her and asked her if there was anything she needed me for.  

So she wasn't even contacting you - you "caved" to your own internal pressure?
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« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2011, 11:29:51 PM »

Quote
Have you explored why you want to be with someone who you see as a "pathetic person" and "childlike"? Why are "pathetic" and "childlike" attractive to you?

I find this part of her completely unnattractive.  I am attracted to her for many reasons other than this.  I also wasn't so certain I wanted to be with her anymore and have been dealing with just being friends lately.  I have realized over the past couple of weeks that I have been out at her place far too much lately - to the point that I am missing home and at the same time if she really wants friends or more than that right now.

Quote
So she wasn't even contacting you - you "caved" to your own internal pressure?

Yes -  even if she invites me, it's still my choice to go or not (and I know it's unhealthy and that she uses and abuses me).  I gave in easily because I was lonely and bored at home and I missed her.  I also felt the subtle shift in our dynamic lately from painting me white to painting me black.

Thanks Jim
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Marathoncathy

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« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2012, 05:02:05 PM »

Just read the article about evolution of a BPD relationship. Again. Of course it is spot on about what happened to my BPD fiancé and I.  He was the most persistent suitor imaginable  wanted to be engaged after 10 months. I was so happy and in love! Yes there were occasional rage attacks.. But he explained he had social anxiety and always apologized...in the beginning. Guess I was Sitting duck...he was so much like the father I adored who was also from the UK...my father issues I see now...made me overlook the red flags.
There was a long clinger stage then unbelievable and quick devaluation at the time we had to move from our apt. He took that opportunity to move out on his own a month before Xmas. He then started phone games, Refusing to take me out or help me out  or have my back on things, telling me friends I had never met told him to leave me,and other games of devaluation..including telling me other women wanted him and he may take them up. I saw he was having the grass is greener syndrome and let him go. When he didn't call me for 10 days before Xmas  when we were supposed to be planning a trip -I made my own plans to visit my hometown, and while there dated an old friend...assuming our relationship was over.  He Never called me at Xmas.
When I got back to LA and told him the truth ... He became irate and told me "I cheated on him" I feel this was projection as it was totally unreasonable to believe the relationship was Still on still on under those circumstances. I explained to him he had just devalued me too far.. I had to get away and did not want to be alone at Xmas. I had supported him for 18 months prior to the move out  while he went back to school after a lay off. During this time he started withholding affection and sex as a weapon so of was refreshing to spend time with normal people over Xmas who cared about me.

At the end of this conversation..with which I meant to honestly discuss the future of us given all this estrangement...indicating I was still in love but could not tolerate his lack of commitment and coldness any more..he tried to push me off his porch. He would not even discuss the final business of a break up...returning items, keys, separating property, saying good bye to my autistic son who was so attached to him. I had given a lot to this relationship and have been devastated by this harsh treatment. If the relationship was over.. Why could it not be on a friendly note...we had shared so much.

My question is...how much did my behavior contribute to the. Honeymoon-clinger- devaluation cycle? I did not know much about being on the receiving end of BPD at the time and he refused treatment. (I demanded he go to a psychiatrist after many crazy incidents including abuse and vandalism- who diagnosed him with BPD/ASPD.). I expected him act like a GAS (grown ass man) and probably was too reactive to his crazy making, not validating enough and stood up to all his abusive behavior and set boundaries.was I wrong in this? Had I been better informed or more validating..could this devaluation stage have been prevented. I did love him so for the wonderful parts of his personality..and memories of how fantastic the early days were...of which  he seems to have had no memory .
  He is a handsome man, once a ladies favorite in the Rockabilly scene had many short superficial relationships there. I'm a trial attorney, and our life together was more stable and subdued- what he claimed he wanted so much... Just seemed to get to the point what we had did not provide enough kicks or attention for him. And I wanted a partner, a waverer. As me pursued me so vigorously and I was the reluctant one initially...this kind of blows my mind.
Any words of wisdom, suggestions, etc.? Think I'll ever hear from him. And if so, then what? I am trying to start dating again but don't have much enthusiasm for it as my feelings for him were deep...
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« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2012, 09:22:40 PM »

Hi marathoncathy
Wow I relate to much to your story.
The first thing to know is that BPD is an illness, so no matter what you did it would end in suffering.
You were only setting your boundaries and making him to know that he couldn't treat you in an abusive way. Of course he didn't like it (he is as all BP's, a child) but you had the right to protect yourself and your child.
My r/s lasted 14 months (he dumped me just 3 months ago). During the honeymoon phase he seemed to adore me, but even in that time he pushed and pulled, but I didn't realize that.
After six months he wanted to get married, but he was having problems with his job, he lost it, and we posponed the engagement. But when he returned to his job we had a stupid fight because of a movie we didn't finish to watch (I have to leave the theater because of a job emergency) and was the first time he devaluated me (affection retired). Could you believe that.
After that we recycled, spent go od times together, but he never proposed. He lost his job again, I supported him a lot and then one day he started to rage at me because of nonsenses, his car didn't work, it was my fault, his bad performance in sex was my fault, I said stop what's going on, he said I was cold (my family and friends and myself know that it was the opposite), we make up, all seem to be ok for a while, he   gave me flowers for our anniversary, came to dinner with my parents, acted very affectionated with me in front of his parents .
But next week he was saying he didn't love me enough, I said if you don't love me so let's break up, he said no, But 3 weeks later he dumped me even knowing I had a breast biopsy this week, and I was scared to death. He didn't care and he said bye  and justified himself lying he has to move to other city for a job and couldn't have a long distance r/s.
I'm still struggling to collect my pieces, in T and meds but I keep my faith that I' m going to be Ok and grow.
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True love is acceptance
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This board is for members with failed or failing relationships that want to detach from their relationship and relationship wounds. If you are still analyzing the decision to stay, please post on Undecided: Staying or Leaving
All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)
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« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2012, 09:42:07 PM »


"pay more attention to actions rather than words"

I saw this on one of the post above regarding paying attention to the persion with BPD.  The interesting thing is that my BPD friend says this all the time about evaluating other people.  He says he has little regard for what people say, but what they do tells them everything.  Of course, in his world this is often very convoluted, but he harps on it quite a bit.  I did all kinds of nice things for him, but he could only remember how I "let him down" in the very beginning.
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redfeather
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« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2012, 10:30:04 PM »

This is the 2nd pwBPD I have been involved with. Both have followed the stages as outlined in the article to A T! I mean it is so eery how spot on this article is. First involvement with a pwBPD she went through all the phases one by one as has the 2nd pwBPD I most recently dated.
The BIG difference has been my behaviorthis time which i am so proud of. but i think it has a lot more to do with finding this resource and doing exactly what I was told to do.
See the first time i knew nothing of BPD I just knew we got close she broke up with me and ran off with someone else. I was devastated and tried my damndest to get her back. Well after about 1.5 months of dropping me on my head she did come back. it did not work and i went NC.
THIS TIME when I realized what or whom i was dating I SLAMMED on the brakes and dumped her. Not in a mean way just sent her on her way. She split me black as coal and I havent had any contact on my end. She will every once in awhile like something on my Facebook page but hasnt tried to contact me. This 2nd pwBPD is very low functioning. I just went right on with my life this time unlike 1st time. WOW 1st time i was a fing mess. This time I have been planning trips, going out with friends, exercising, reading books, posting here if I feel like contacting her. Totally different approach on my end.
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gettingoverit
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« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2012, 05:09:01 PM »

I wish this post also included when you are with someone who does not rage, like a waif for instance. My ex never raged, she just gave me the silent treatment. It would be great for us that never experienced the "rage" part of our BPD exes.
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« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2012, 05:20:19 PM »

WOW...I am gonna copy this and bring it to Councling..This is 100% how i got myself into this...This is to scary.

I spent the next many years bouncing between these charactistics until i only had a ''shadow'' left.I dumped everything i ever had into this... cry cry cry...
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« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2012, 05:56:06 PM »

GOI,

I wish this post also included when you are with someone who does not rage, like a waif for instance. My ex never raged, she just gave me the silent treatment. It would be great for us that never experienced the "rage" part of our BPD exes.

Ya know my ex raged a handful of times, maybe three, over the course of many many years.  The quiet rages I experienced were like yours...internal, covertly aggressive, passive aggressive etc.  It made me question my reality quite a bit.  Those silent rages, like the silent treatment, being set up in no-win situations to generate conflict, or her projecting her anger/resentment onto you by behaving in ways to elicit these emotions from you are all ways to be a non-aggressive rager.

It's confusing GOI, it took me a long time to figure out what emotional abuse was and that it's a form of rage.  And it is just as destructive as physical abuse.

Have you checked out some resources on emotional abuse? 

GM
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HANDLE WITH CARE CONTENTS UNDER PRESSURE


« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2012, 11:52:00 AM »

Great topic!

Just what I need right now while trying to maintain space from my BPDso and avoid her attempts to goad me into going back, emotional blackmail, using kids to try and hurt me.

I'm only 24hrs out (this time) but struggling with the idea of going back vs building my life from scratch after 12yr RS. I just know there will be more to come, and the inevitable "pull" cant be far away once she realizes that pushing won't get me back.

Reading stuff like this helps. Especially when Im feeling weak and full of doubt.
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mgl210
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« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2012, 03:07:35 PM »

I met her off of POF(dating website). I met her two days before I was about to graduate from college in 2010. When she and I first started talking, she told me that she had "issues". When I had asked what kind of issues, she told me that she has a problem fighting urges to self harm herself, and that there was something that she would tell me in person(that she had been sexually assaulted by a guy that she had met offline and got pregnant and had a violent miscarriage bc of him). She was sweet, intelligent and a real joy to talk to. She told me that she had been engaged twice(one before meeting me didn't work out bc he was too controlling and the other bc he was a recovering heroin addict and had tried to commit suicide with her prescription meds). She did tell me she was seeing a T and a PSychiatrist. Two weeks after she and I had met, she was sleeping over my house and yes we had been intimant, her T(at the time) didn't think she would feel safe being at my house if she felt she wasn't sure she was ready for that type of affection(the intimacy) and then called the hospital which then released her over to a psych hospital. 
After that, it seemed okay. Then, she just angered me one day and I broke up with her. Two days later, we get back together, and then about 2 months after that, she had a relapse with the self harming ways, and she gets all defensive on me. I to defend myself in this time, told her to just go home. She goes home crying, leads her parents to believe that the bruises that they see on her are caused by me(she did this by not clarifying that I DID NOT do such a thing). I get arrested for domestic violence charges. Charges get dropped. Two months(around thanksgiving 2010), I pmed on her AIM and we decided to get back together. ..etc etc...

So fast forward June 2012. I miss her terribly. She(or someone did) called me from her cell phone a couple of days ago, I was curious to know what she wanted(also I guess I can admit wanted to see if she wanted to be part of my life again). I called last night and got the standard vm greeting. I didn't leave a vm though. Tommorow(friday), I go to my first support group meeting for people with anxiety, depression. I wasn't fully aware how upset about this whole situation in its entirety till I started talking to my postman about it and could literally feel my whole heart shatter again as if it had just happened.

I will let you all know how it goes...
MGL
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« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2012, 08:50:09 AM »

very good post, all so true. In made me reflect to the beginning. When I met my BPDGF I was going through a divorce. Of course she started making advances on the sly. Asking my coworkers about me etc.. Once we started she told me all about her abusive past, abusive other men etc. I can remember her staring in my eyes as I talked. She was always asking me opinion about what she should do in her job and dealing with her son. I can remeber her saying " its like you can read mind" sex was off the charts. She wanted us to spend everyday and everynight together. After about 6 or 8 weeks she starts talking about me moving in with her, She gives me a key to her apartment, ask me to bring my clothes to her place. Never wants to be or go anywhere without me. After about 3 or 4 months she has to have space, dont think she can do a relationship again. blah, blah. After almost two years we are down to spending 1 or 2 days a week togther, sex is once a week if she is not upset, drained, sick or tired or stressed out from work. I have to almost beg to go anywhere with her anymore she always want to go with her friends or someone else. of course she is very smart she dont tell me she dont want me to go she just starts a fight and i will go to my home to let it cool down and sthen she does what she wants. Of course I question why I dont let this relationship go. why I still hang on. But this post was spot on.
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« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2012, 08:38:37 PM »

My BPDbf r/s started out more mellow than the described.  We met through a mutual friend.  He liked me right away, but I wasn't so sure about him.  He wanted to have sex pretty quickly, but he has erectile dysfunction, so it wasn't mind-blowing or anything. 

The great part was that he really liked me, pursued me steadily, which I returned in kind.  It wasn't "over-the-top" by any means, felt nice.  Seemed normal for someone who has a history of long-term relationships.  He gave me a drawer, wanted to meet my family.  He lives about an hour from me, but we spent every weekend together, and sometimes saw each other during the week as well.  We talked almost every day, which he initiated. 

I had already been through a few NPD relationships, so had read a lot about that, knew a little about BPD, and was in counseling, so I had my antennas turned on.  I saw some red flags which made me question if it could be a long term relationship, but thought I was dating a really thoughtful, super sweet, consistent great guy.

He never went through the clinger phase.

Then, one morning after dating this way for 2 months, talking about plans for the weekend in detail, my xmas present, etc. he had the ED, and blamed it all on me.  Painted me black as far as sex and romance went.  Said he liked me as a person, but essentially denied that we were ever in a romantic, sexual relationship as far as he was concerned!  Wouldn't even admit that I was his girlfriend - it was so weird! 
Said weird things, like he still wanted to get together for our weekend plans, and hold hands and kiss, but no sex as he wasn't, and never was, sexually attracted to me.  Somehow I never noticed that in the first 2 months...  In these conversations, he also kept getting mad at me and raising his voice, but I couldn't figure out why he was getting so upset.

It completely took me by surprise.  I was devastated.  Completely confused.  Wondering what I had missed?  He seemed to turn into another person.

Needless to say, I didn't want to get together for the weekend.  A few weeks later, after some emails and talking and such, and returning my stuff, he said he still really wanted to be friends.  He said he'd be in town on Thanksgiving to have dinner with friends, so we decided to try to get together then.  He completely blew me off.  Didn't even call me/return my calls. 

Then said he was sorry and he would call to talk about it, blew me off for 2 weeks.  Then sent me an email saying he was sorry, but he didn't want to talk to me, and to "let him be".  Total silent treatment.  For something that he initiated...  weird.  A phone call is too much when he is a facilitator for a divorce group and tries to talk people down from suicide and stuff?  Ok...

He has a significant history of abandonment, had attempted suicide a year before we met subsequent to feeling depressed from his divorce, he is an alcoholic but doesn't admit it. 

From what I can tell from being on this site, I really got lucky that it ended when it did!
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wishingwell17
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« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2013, 09:20:14 AM »

this is a fantastic thread. And, as just one day out of my r/s it's a very good exercise for me to feel strong and stick with my decision (this time).

early on he swept me off my feet. I had strange gut feelings on the second date, but was online dating and trying to keep my mind open to all people (discernment missing in my decision making here). He was handsome. Charming. Interesting. Fun.  Something was still a little off, I could not place it, so instead I placed it in a drawer and closed it. Whoops.

Looking back, I ignored or made excuses for mounds of poor reactions. One night about 4 months into our intense courtship he was at my home, it was late, we had had a fantastic evening, the whole deal, dinner, fire, wine, fantastic sex...   we stepped into the kitchen. He asked me "Hey, show me your basement" (My basement, at that time was a REAL unfinished, storage area which hosted a community of spiders, no heat, cold, and damp). I laughed and replied "no, not tonight, it's awful"
He said "Yes, let's go down there NOW.' I said: No, I'd rather not. It's dank and musty...   next time, ya know when we have clothes on?" He began to escalate and began insisting. ( I had only known this guy a few months. This REALLY bothered me that he would not just wait a day or two?") He then said "What are you hiding from me?" I looked at him surprised and said "What?" Then he went straight to 100, screamed at me when I said a final "I'm not up to it, not tonight", (at this time I think my eyes were teary from his escalation). He walked out of the kitchen, grabbed his clothes, put them on, and stormed out yelling at the same time, slamming my front door, at 3am.

I was left standing there and remember thinking "NOTHING about that was normal". Somehow I felt bad for not wanting to show him, I wanted to know what upset him so much? I should have focused on his behavior responding to my reasonable response.

Truth is, I never got an answer other than accusations that "I had a problem", "I am insecure" "basements are basements." He accused me of reacting to his request in an extreme fashion. And blamed my reaction for the reason he left. Just not the reality. It was so "odd" and just plain wrong.  Up to this point in my life I had no experience with something like this and no idea where to even file my thoughts about it. I think they ended up filed in my mind under "misc". I thought "I really like this man - wth was that?" I should have paused.

I had FAR too many "wth? moments than I care to admit. All which are now blamed on me.

In truth, it would get really good for a month or so, enough to completely draw me back and have what felt like real hope. Eventually in a few weeks he had a problem with something I said or did, did not do, created a problem where there was none. Accused me of something. Or, I found a dating site and would confront him with it. (it's normal for men in committed relationships to browse dating sites to cope with their unhappiness, look for "options and choices.", didn't you know? lol) I can own feeling not happy with the r/s and voicing my concerns in healthy and unhealthy ways due to frustrations and it would just add to the smoldering lava, no matter how I expressed myself.

Generally, I feel I was so reasonable that I reasoned my way into not trusting myself anymore. I knew better deep down. I will be learning why I let go of this self trust for this r/s as I move on. Looking back I am ashamed of myself for actually standing and trying to understand his thought process or figure myself out based on his criticisms. I let myself down. (I'm working on this with my T, Learn, forgive myself and trust myself - because I can)

As 2010's post explains well how I feel. I basically stuck my head up his a** and got nothing out of it...   and I'm feeling (today) I stuck it up my own for a good part of 5 years.

Quote
BPD is BPD...   You could stick your head up there and look around and get nothing out of it but exasperation and a waste of precious time.  So many of us returned to the BPD looking for answers- in effect, giving them more control of our lives. Now I know, there's nothing left to do but turn my back, walk away and take the butcher's word for it...  

Thanks much  for this exercise.
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hellnback
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« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2013, 09:29:27 AM »

I stuck around because that is what love is to me. I fell in love with her and started a family. I felt, and still do, that I made a commitment. I started a family and I love my family with all my heart. Love, for me, is complete acceptance for another. Yes, she was crazy, mean, deceptive and many other horrible things. But she was also good sometimes. She was the mother of my children and I made a promise before God and family to love her til death do us part.
I know she is bad for me. I knew I was being abused. I accepted it for the good of my family. That is who I am. I am proud of sticking it out for 15 years. I never broke my promise. She left, I'd welcome her home if that was what she wanted.
Don't be ashamed because you loved someone .who was bad for you. You did the right thing.  cheesy
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« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2013, 09:45:25 PM »

I think it depends on the persons/situation...   I would say in MOST cases, the minute there are signs of push/pull , hot/cold, abusive behavior, which almost ALWAYS are seen within a few months at the most or until INTIMACY becomes apparent in the relationship, then a person who had healthy relationship experiences and is not a rescuer, etc...   will seriously give pause to this stuff...   and pay more attention to actions rather than words. I have to meet one non that didn't see signs early on, and who didn't regret NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THEIR GUT FEELING that something was incredibly wrong. There are those that walked into these relationships very naive also...   that doesn't make them mentally ill, it is simply a case of finding out why, as an adult, one has this level of naiveity.

I hope my comments don't suggest a non is mentally ill. I am simply stating that in ALL relationships there are two people and both play a part in the dance. Looking at one's own part is the ONLY control we have over this stuff...   looking at the BPD's part may relieve some self doubt and answer some questions, but at the end of the day, we don't have control over other people. AND it is also important to realize that we have emotional drives that dictate oftentimes what we do...   and perhaps an overdeveloped sense of duty, obligation, responsibility, loyalty, etc.

Look, I'm a therapist and STILL didn't put together the fact that I was with  BPD...   it does not show itself until intimacy triggers all the core issues. But I DID see behaviors that were ''odd'' or ''eccentric'', and I brushed them away. My gut said "WHOA''...   my intellect said ''Give him a chance"...   and I did. And another one, and another one. THAT is the problem. Where we draw the line as healthy adults in an adult relationship. If it was a CHILD then the tolerance of course is going to be different.

Interesting discussion!
SD

thanks SD for your thoughts/words. i was reading over old journal entries, just a few weeks into the relationship with my exBPD. i kept saying, "something isn't right." "something isn't adding up." but no, completely went against my gut feelings and moved forward.
it's been a VERY short time since we've been over, which, was never made official. it stings but, having this board DOES make it easier.
thank you.
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MakeItHappen
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« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2013, 09:48:10 PM »

Kinetix, thank you so much for posting that.  I am sitting here dumbfounded.  It's almost 100% exactly my story.  That's EXACTLY how my xBPDbf's and my relationship evolved.  The MINUTE I pointed out that I needed a slight bit more love or appreciation from him, he got "monster mean" for the first time, and it completely freaked me out.  It was all downhill from there...  

He just broke up with me 2 weeks ago.  

Wow.  I'm printing that out and putting it up near my desk at home.



Exactly! The second, I pointed out anything to do with what was missing, it was over. Unreal.
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officer1618
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« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2013, 10:55:48 PM »

My ex had her boyfriend write me an E-mail in her name which sounded pretty dumb. He used her account and her name but it was blatantly obvious because he was quoting books and using bigger words than she knew. I responded back to him personally and advised him to read Roger Melton's Romeo's Bleeding excerpt. I told him if he believed he was being a Prince Charming he might want to reconsider his character as King Priam. I told him I don't want to ruin his surprise for the twist at the end of his fantasy but enjoy the story as it played out. I never heard from him again.
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« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2013, 09:14:23 AM »

Hellnback,
I think like you. There is a price for giving the love and care that we have ...   And I don't mean the sort of emotional business relationship that is called "adult" love by psychologists. Men and women give their hearts and minds and even their lives to country, to companies, to ideas. It's not the best "deal" if you measure it with a balance scale. It's not psychologically "healthy".

Some of us make that sort of commitment to another human being. We know we do it for ourselves as much as we do it for another. No illusion of altruism. We try. We succeed or fail. We pay a price. In my opinion, it is the best that mankind can offer.

That said...   Thank God for the support that our brothers and sisters give us here when we are wounded on our journey.
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