Full of questions today... sleeping arrangements

[Think About It...]

It was mentioned to me last night by S12 that he was glad to be home and be able to sleep in a warm, comfortable bed.  STBXH always takes the kids to his girlfriend's house in a neighboring state.  Even though he has been told repeatedly by his L not to do this, he does it anyway.  I haven't made a big deal of it because the kids like the new GF, she is nice to them, and I look at it as another layer of protection for the kids.  I worry far less if there is another adult around to supervise, even if it is someone I don't actually know.

She lives in a small, two bedroom house.  From what I have been told, he and the GF sleep in her room, her son sleeps in his room, and our kids sleep in the front room on air mattresses.  While I understand there is nothing terrible about spending the occasional night on an air mattress if you are visiting somewhere, I have some concerns for the long haul.  He is planning on moving up there as soon as the divorce is final  and probably getting married to her.  That would mean that the sleeping in the front room arrangement would be permanent.  That's what I am having a problem with.  Especially since S12 said that his kept deflating and he would end up cold, on the hard floor.  I would think that they could al least find two sleeper sofas.  I hate sending them up there anyway to deal with him and his rages, but this just makes it worse. 

What would you consider to be reasonable in this case?  I am definately bringing this one up at the next conference with the L.

[2bad2stay]

It was mentioned to me last night by S12 that he was glad to be home and be able to sleep in a warm, comfortable bed.  STBXH always takes the kids to his girlfriend's house in a neighboring state.  Even though he has been told repeatedly by his L not to do this, he does it anyway.  I haven't made a big deal of it because the kids like the new GF, she is nice to them, and I look at it as another layer of protection for the kids.  I worry far less if there is another adult around to supervise, even if it is someone I don't actually know.

She lives in a small, two bedroom house.  From what I have been told, he and the GF sleep in her room, her son sleeps in his room, and our kids sleep in the front room on air mattresses.  While I understand there is nothing terrible about spending the occasional night on an air mattress if you are visiting somewhere, I have some concerns for the long haul.  He is planning on moving up there as soon as the divorce is final  and probably getting married to her.  That would mean that the sleeping in the front room arrangement would be permanent.  That's what I am having a problem with.  Especially since S12 said that his kept deflating and he would end up cold, on the hard floor.  I would think that they could al least find two sleeper sofas.  I hate sending them up there anyway to deal with him and his rages, but this just makes it worse. 

What would you consider to be reasonable in this case?  I am definately bringing this one up at the next conference with the L.

[problemfamily]

That's a tough one because her son deserves his own space too.

Camping cots that won't deflate? a murphy bed?

Is this something s12 can address with is dad in a mature way? i.e. dad, we like visiting gf, but my back hurts from ending up on the floor. Can we do anything about this dad?

No real advice - what an odd situation. 

[2bad2stay]

Heck, a couple of futons would work.  I'm not that unreasonable, but I think having a bed would be nice.

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[the end]

I think I'd brainstorm some options with DS about this... its not your place to fix it.

Sympathise with DS, discuss some options, and help him determine some solutions. He is nearly old enough that he can create some boundaries of his own. It wont be long and the man in him wont be happy with sleeping on the floor and the degrading aspect of the situation.

Pushing this with XH is not productive, but helping DS with how HE feels about it will.
Sorry mom but I dont think how you feel about it is terribly relevant... I agree it's not great, but in the scheme of things its pretty minor.

[laurena82]

What would you consider to be reasonable in this case?

At least an air mattress that actually held air!

To be honest, an air mattress was what my SS was on for a year or two here, and the other SS was on sofa sleeper in living room.

Having a teenager who wants to sleep til noon on a sofa sleeper in your living room EOW gets old,...I'll tell you that much.

I'd say talk with your L re: what is a reasonable standard for them to be held to...

I"m not sure of your ex"s situation, but I can identify with the GF, if your ex is in no financial shape to contribute to either buying/renting/building on to current house in order to accommodate the SK's, I can see how she does not feel it is HER obligation to dispace her son from his room to accomodate BPD's kids, nor pay for an addition to be built onto her home, etc. 

I guess talking with your lawyer would give you the best idea of what is reasonable to "expect".  In our situation, eventually we got a bunk bed set up in nonSO's office , and the SK's slept there.  Following that, nonSO and UPBDxW went through bitter custody dispute re: visitation, etc,...and I'm SURE that if UBPD had a legal leg to stand on to *demand* more of nonSO re: sleeping arrangements, she would have...so I"m guessing you dont have a HUGE recourse...but, again...talk with your lawyer.  At MINIMUM, ...if he's sleeping on a "air mattress"...by definition, eh...there needs to be AIR in it ! 

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[2bad2stay]

Those are some good points about having S12 bring it up.  He's the white child of the 4, so he might be able to pull it off and get some results.  And the end, I see what you mean by it being minor, but I don't think feeling bad for my kid is irrelevent.  I am not planning on making a big issue out of it and will let the kids bring it up.  But I do know that when I say he is sleeping on the cold, hard floor that's exactly what I mean.  S12 said he woke up in the middle of the night because he was freezing and that they turn the heat down to 50 at night.  Instead of getting irate, I told S12 to ask if it could be warmer and, if not, try layering and wear a hat to bed. I don't expect him to find another place to live, build them rooms, or anything of that sort. Just that they have somewhere reasonable to sleep.

I am more concerned about their safety when they do try to set boundries. S14 has tried creating boundries, but he's always been the black child. On one visit, they were making a bunch of pizzas.  Not thinking it would be a problem, S14 was standing in the kitchen and took a piece of one.  That resulted in a tirade about how he had ruined the dinner for everyone, he was rude, and he had no right to eat anything else for the rest of the day. S14 apologized for eating the slice, pointed out that he hadn't had anything for lunch, was hungry, and didn't know that it wasn't OK to go ahead and have a piece. His dad continued to rage about it and S14 said that he was going in the other room because while maybe he shouldn't have eaten the pizza, he also didn't deserve to be screamed at. That landed him being physically thrown out of the house, in unfamiliar territory, in the middle of a Michgan winter with no coat. He ended up walking over a mile to find a house where he could call me, only to be picked up by his dad before he could knock on the door.  But yet I still don't say anything negative about him to them, just validate their feelings and try to support them.  I still tell them that they need to go see their dad, etc.  All I can do at this point is to send them and hope for the best.  It is getting hard because 3 of the 4 are starting to really protest about going.  I end up spending a lot of time explaining that he's their dad, they need to see each other, he misses them, too, etc.

[laurena82]

It is getting hard because 3 of the 4 are starting to really protest about going.  I end up spending a lot of time explaining that he's their dad, they need to see each other, he misses them, too, etc.

Boy oh boy, 2bad...you're a saint!

I'm on the "other end" of the story...same scenario, being the GF who's BF/(now live in SO) is bring the kids to MY house...

Only difference being,...the "BPD" is my BF/SO's exW...

...and, believe me...there is no way in H that she is "talking the kids into going"...she's finding every reason why they couldnt /shouldnt (and simultaneously telling SO that they ARENT coming)...THEN turning around and telling them their dad is evil for not spending more time with them!

On a  note for yourself...if your ex is spending all of his weekend at GF's house yelling at his kids (eg the deal with 14 yo) and having drama of physically throwing him out, then having to chase him down, etc etc etc...if this GF is anywhere NEAR semi-normal...she's gonna get REAL TIRED of all of this pretty darn soon!...

Not only is your living room taken up with all these airmattresses EOW, but you've got all this chaos and drama of BF yelling at his kids, etc etc etc...do you REALLY want to have that going on in your own home...and subjecting your own son to this chaos/drama/displacement, etc etc?...at least she's getting a little perspective on what "marriage" to this guy is gonna be like...maybe this marriage wont be a happening thing? 

As for the kid waking up cold...perhaps knocking on dad's bedroom door to ask for another blanket, and/or for dad to blow up the mattress again as it collapsed would be a reasonable thing to do?

sigh...

[2bad2stay]

You would think she might get tired of it, but I am kind of hoping she doesn't.  I would hate for that to end and the parade of women to start.  S12 has said that she was married before to an abuser. She also has a S13 who has moderate autism.  That's one thing that I find sadly odd.  STBXH always threw a fit, saying he didn't believe in autism, that our kids just needed to do as he said and they'd be fine.  He has said that he doesn't know anything about it and refuses to learn.  He had even threatened to put S6 in an institution if I couldn't get the meltdowns under control.  (This is the kid who has high-functionin autism and is even in general education classes all day.)  So he ends up with someone who has a child that is more effected than ours and seems to accept that just fine. I seriously don't get that.  But I am hoping that at least the GF understands and would know how to handle the problems with our kids that might come up.  At least she has experience.

[daelyn263]

Just as an idea...maybe get the kids sleeping bags they can take with them. Even those are marketed for colder climes, at least and would be warmer than regular blankets/shts on air mattresses, even if they aren't more comfortable.

[problemfamily]

daelyn has a great idea - and then along those lines, maybe buy a self inflating camping mat to go on the floor. They could just leave that stuff at the gf's house?

[2bad2stay]

I actually have air mattresses and sleepin bags for each of the kids because we go camping.  I have offered to send them, but have been told by stbxh that he doesn't want them because he doesn't have room for them in his car.  I am not willing to leave them up there because I paid quite a bit of money for all of this and am afraid that I might not get it back.  Sending them if they come back each is something I would be willing to do.  I may ask the kids if they want to take them again.  If they walk out with all of the stuff, I am hoping their dad might just let them bring it.

[Oy-vey!]

You are taking the right action to validate the kids' feelings.  However, you are being much too nice in speaking to  your children about him.

1) This specific sleeping thing is indeed a minor issue.  Good job recognizing that it is up to the kids to explain their discomfort.
2) You need to go beyond validating their feelings (especially after S14's experience).  Explain to them the reality that their dad makes poor choices.

Have you read Divorce Poison?  Your kids need to understand the difference between "normal" (you) and "not normal" (dad).  And they need to be TOLD that there is a difference.  Validating feelings is one thing.  Learning that things aren't normal and they can do something about it is another.  Those skills are incredibly important for your kids.