New job - schedule flexibility.

[Think About It...]

Separated two years ago, divorce final in July.  I haven't worked full-time in 20 months - been consulting which means I don't need to travel much.

I have to have a full-time job and I've been trying to get one but of course the timing isn't great.  Now I have found one and expect an offer soon.  It's in my city so no need to relocate but will require travel about one-third of the time - mostly domestic but a little international.

I have 50/50 custody - 7 days, 7 days - of S10 and D12.  They seem to be doing fine. My ex lives a mile away.  She is a good mother most of the time but flies into rages at times - not aimed at the kids so far as far as I know.  But she was verbally abusive of my stepson for many years which hurt him tremendously - low self-esteem, substance abuse, etc.  She is very positive toward D12 and SD19.  I am concerned long-term for S10 but no big problems yet - she just doesn't engage with him very much - doesn't communicate with him past a surface level.

Here is a draft e-mail I may send to her as soon as I have the job:

I will be starting a new job soon.  My work hours will be normal, and when the kids are with me that should work fine.

I will need to travel some.  I’ll find that out as far in advance as possible, and arrange it so I travel when the kids are with you as much as I can.

If my travel schedule cannot be adjusted to fit with the kids’ schedule, I may need to trade dates.  I’ll propose something and we can work it out so it works for everyone.

This job (or another one with similar requirements) is essential to keep my financial obligations to you, the kids and others so there is no option but to make it work.

Please let me know if you want to discuss this in advance or just when situations come up.  

I usually try to minimize communication with her so she can't twist information to make accusations against me (her hobby).  So I haven't mentioned this to her yet.  But I'm fairly open with the kids and I never tell them "Don't tell Momma" so I assume she knows whatever I tell them.  She probably already knows I'm close to getting this job for example.

At the same time, I need this job and I need her cooperation to make it work.  Nothing special - I don't need her to put out any effort - just cooperate in simple schedule changes like swapping weeks or days.  I can figure it out - it will be simple - she just needs to click on "Reply", "OK" and "Send".  But she's often very passive-aggressive - a million excuses not to do something simple like this.

I'm hoping she'll cooperate because she wants the alimony and she knows I will tell the kids the truth so they will see her behavior for what it is.  (I've never had to put her down to them, but I very simply tell them the basics of what is going on.)

[Matt]

Separated two years ago, divorce final in July.  I haven't worked full-time in 20 months - been consulting which means I don't need to travel much.

I have to have a full-time job and I've been trying to get one but of course the timing isn't great.  Now I have found one and expect an offer soon.  It's in my city so no need to relocate but will require travel about one-third of the time - mostly domestic but a little international.

I have 50/50 custody - 7 days, 7 days - of S10 and D12.  They seem to be doing fine. My ex lives a mile away.  She is a good mother most of the time but flies into rages at times - not aimed at the kids so far as far as I know.  But she was verbally abusive of my stepson for many years which hurt him tremendously - low self-esteem, substance abuse, etc.  She is very positive toward D12 and SD19.  I am concerned long-term for S10 but no big problems yet - she just doesn't engage with him very much - doesn't communicate with him past a surface level.

Here is a draft e-mail I may send to her as soon as I have the job:

I will be starting a new job soon.  My work hours will be normal, and when the kids are with me that should work fine.

I will need to travel some.  I’ll find that out as far in advance as possible, and arrange it so I travel when the kids are with you as much as I can.

If my travel schedule cannot be adjusted to fit with the kids’ schedule, I may need to trade dates.  I’ll propose something and we can work it out so it works for everyone.

This job (or another one with similar requirements) is essential to keep my financial obligations to you, the kids and others so there is no option but to make it work.

Please let me know if you want to discuss this in advance or just when situations come up.  

I usually try to minimize communication with her so she can't twist information to make accusations against me (her hobby).  So I haven't mentioned this to her yet.  But I'm fairly open with the kids and I never tell them "Don't tell Momma" so I assume she knows whatever I tell them.  She probably already knows I'm close to getting this job for example.

At the same time, I need this job and I need her cooperation to make it work.  Nothing special - I don't need her to put out any effort - just cooperate in simple schedule changes like swapping weeks or days.  I can figure it out - it will be simple - she just needs to click on "Reply", "OK" and "Send".  But she's often very passive-aggressive - a million excuses not to do something simple like this.

I'm hoping she'll cooperate because she wants the alimony and she knows I will tell the kids the truth so they will see her behavior for what it is.  (I've never had to put her down to them, but I very simply tell them the basics of what is going on.)

[Matt]

Yes, there are a few options, but none of them real good.

I have a good friend with two kids about the same ages as my kids.  He's a great guy whose wife developed severe mental problems and then vanished, so he has needed a lot of help and support too.  He could take one or both kids in a pinch, but he lives across town so getting them to school would be difficult;  he's surely do it if I asked but it's not a good solution for all the time.

My daughter has a close friend who lives nearby and whose parents I know well.  Again, in a pinch they would be glad to have D12, but it isn't a good plan for all the time.

I have a very good female friend who watches the kids sometimes, and she's single so in a pinch she could stay here with them.  But that would mean she would either sleep in my bed or on the couch - some complicated implications to the former, especially if I get home from a trip in the middle of the night.

So...yes, I need backup plans, but by far the best solution will be to just swap days.  If I have to, I'll take the issue to our "parenting coach" or even the court, but what a nightmare that could be.  So I'm hoping to just establish that this falls under whatever language is in our court order - "everybody play nice" - and look for ways to make it work for her too.  Maybe even pay her - find some way to say "Thanks - here's $50 for your trouble".

[csandra]

I will be starting a new job soon and will need to travel some. 
If my travel schedule cannot be adjusted to fit with the kids’ schedule, I may ask to trade dates. 
  

Well, I say "less is more".  The minute we start trying to justify ourselves and "explain" stuff is the minute they start honing in for the kill.

At the same time, I need this job and I need her cooperation to make it work. 

Aaaaccckkkk... Please say it isn't true.  

But she's often very passive-aggressive - a million excuses not to do something simple like this.

I'm hoping she'll cooperate because she wants the alimony and she knows I will tell the kids the truth so they will see her behavior for what it is.  (I've never had to put her down to them, but I very simply tell them the basics of what is going on.)

I'm sorry you have to go through this so soon.  It's unlikely that she will do anything differently than before.  I agree to have a back up plan in mind.  I would very much down play the idea that you need her cooperation.  Keep her guessing.  At least let her think that you have some alternatives.

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[Matt]

At the same time, I need this job and I need her cooperation to make it work. 

Aaaaccckkkk... Please say it isn't true.  

It is true.  No relatives here.  Plenty of friends - others I haven't mentioned - so whatever happens I'll find a way - but life will either be simple if she cooperates or very difficult if she doesn't.

I think she'll cooperate, at least at first, and maybe we can get into a pattern of behavior which is practical.  Then I can probably rely on the kids to keep it going;  when she has disrupted our way of doing things up til now I've told the kids, "I will pick you up at 5:30 Friday" and that's what I've done - don't even talk to my ex.  But I think that will work best if there is a pattern set so they will think it's normal and she'll look bad if she disrupts it.

[Oy-vey!]

You need an on-call live-in Nanny.  No need to involve x when you travel on YOUR PARENTING TIME.  If there is no right of first refusal clause, then you should not offer to trade time.

Take care of your kids when they are on your time.  It doesn't mean you trade time with her.

[Matt]

You need an on-call live-in Nanny.  No need to involve x when you travel on YOUR PARENTING TIME.  If there is no right of first refusal clause, then you should not offer to trade time.

Take care of your kids when they are on your time.  It doesn't mean you trade time with her.

There is a right of first refusal (both ways).  So I could say, "I need to travel on such-and-such dates - can we swap for such-and-such other dates?"  If she doesn't cooperate (she doesn't travel so there probably won't be good reasons she can't cooperate) I could go to the backup plan.

But...I'm not familiar with the "on-call live-in nanny" idea.  Is it common?  I live in a city of 1 million - will I find such an agency here?  Is there another term I should google?

Thanks - this is a direction I hadn't considered much but maybe would be a reliable Plan B.

Matt

[Matt]

I did find a service online that lists "nannies and au pairs".  I signed up.  Maybe that will generate something.

Thanks!

Matt

[Matt]

Doesnt "right of first refusal" generally mean that if you cant be with your kids longer than X(decided amount) length of time, you must offer the time to her before you hire a sitter...she can refuse, and then you get a sitter.

I'm not familiar with "swapping" times as being required on her part...I would think with ROFR that she has "rights" to kids if you are out of town, and you have NO RIGHTS to expecting a swap?

Guess that's something to clarify with your lawyer...?

BEST WISHES!  (sure hope the job pans out...after all this planning  !)
[/quote]

I hope I don't have to get the lawyer involved.  I've spent way too much on lawyers the last few years.

You're right - I can ask her to swap times;  if she doesn't agree I can't force her to.  I will look for a professional resource, so I have someone I can count on, but that will cost money too.  So it will be best if my ex will swap times.

[DavidWebb]

Hi Matt,

Congrats on the new job!

I am in process of mediating a parenting agreement...Here is some food for thought regarding right of first refusal.

Something I have picked up from my neighbor, who is in a somewhat milder predicament (his stbx is just difficult, not so much disordered but LOVES conflict), is about 'trading dates'.  He travels as well, but has a different rotation.  When he occasionally can not work the travel around the kids, he gives the mom the first 'right of refusal' to have them.

If she says yes, she'll take the kids, he accepts it is a time that it just didn't work out for him.  When she did the same, she expected  to 'trade time.'   Each episdoe this happened it created a bunch of phone calls, emails and calls to attorneys, showing up at the house and DEMANDING the kids and CONFLICT.   Eventually, the attorney coached him  not to 'trade' time or expect that time to be given to you...simply ask if the ex would like to take them while you can not.  Do not expect weekends, days, etc to be yours if you could not be with the kids during your scheduled time would be my advice.

I am constructing my agreement for no 'expectations' or 'allowances' to be traded for changes in work or other schedule conflicts.  With 50/50 (which I think I can get), the days should even out, plus or minus a couple.  If I have to give up a couple of days to not have extra conflict, so be it.  It will be better for the kids and the peace.

Regarding the nanny situation...many nanny agencies have temporary sitting and nannies to provide for your situation.  Try online...If the agency doesn't ask for a referral...

Good luck

[Matt]

Hi Matt,

Congrats on the new job!

I am in process of mediating a parenting agreement...Here is some food for thought regarding right of first refusal.

Something I have picked up from my neighbor, who is in a somewhat milder predicament (his stbx is just difficult, not so much disordered but LOVES conflict), is about 'trading dates'.  He travels as well, but has a different rotation.  When he occasionally can not work the travel around the kids, he gives the mom the first 'right of refusal' to have them.

If she says yes, he accepts it is a time that it just didn't work out.  When she did the same, she wanted to 'trade time.'.  Each time this happened it created a bunch of phone calls, emails and calls to attorneys, and CONFLICT.    Eventually, the attorneys coached them not to 'trade' time or expect that time to be given to you...simply ask if the ex would like to take them while you can not.  Do not expect weekends, days, etc to be yours if you could not

I am constructing my agreement for no 'expectations' or 'allowances' to be traded for changes in work or other schedule conflicts.  With 50/50 (which I think I can get), the days should even out, plus or minus a couple.  If I have to give up a couple of days to not have extra conflict, so be it.  It will be better for the kids and the peace.

Thanks, David.

I've heard that in general it's better to just give days (if the other party accepts them) and not to trade, and my experience in the two years we've been separated is hard to judge - for the most part adjustments to the schedule have worked fine, except a few times (including one recently) when my ex requested some time with the kids (to travel to see family) and then would not resolve the details cooperatively.  She complains about e-mail (though she uses it all the time and has for many years), claiming it's too hard so she wants to work out the details by phone only.  Uh-oh.

Anyway, my concern is that if I start giving her more time with the kids as a routine practice - this may happen once or twice a month, for most of a week each time - it could eat into my time with the kids, and I don't think that's good for them or me.  And I don't even think it's what my ex wants;  she negotiated for 50/50 so she would get child support but she rarely does anything with them and never asks for compensating time when I have them extra for some reason.  I want to keep it at 50/50 or more;  over time I hope to have them much more.  So it's critical that if I can't watch them for part of my week I get compensating time, in my view.

[the end]

Matt...DO NOT involve your XW in your decision for babysitting.

Get crystal clear on the ROFR, there are only 1 option regarding her involvement.

1) the days you are traveling while the children are in your care and ROFR apply

in that case a memo letting her know you will be out of town on the following date and times, and wether or not she will be exercising her ROFR, if not you make alternate plans. Nanny, sitter or other.

XW,
I will be out of town, (times and date) Will you take ROFR with the children during that time?
I need reply yes or no by 6PM, date.

Matt

No telling about your job, no asking for trades, no hoping for her interest and support, no manipulation, no hoping for a good turnout...regardless of her answer you then proceed accordingly.

Anyway, my concern is that if I start giving her more time with the kids as a routine practice - this may happen once or twice a month, for most of a week each time - it could eat into my time with the kids, and I don't think that's good for them or me. 

then dont do it,

From my vantage point over here...this looks as though this is putting more effort into STAYING IN CONTACT with her vs. learning how to live YOUR life detached from relationship with her...?

well said, Why OH why do you feel any need whatsoever to 'get' her to do anything?

I think she'll cooperate, at least at first, and maybe we can get into a pattern of behavior which is practical.  Then I can probably rely on the kids to keep it going;  when she has disrupted our way of doing things up til now I've told the kids, "I will pick you up at 5:30 Friday" and that's what I've done - don't even talk to my ex.  But I think that will work best if there is a pattern set so they will think it's normal and she'll look bad if she disrupts it.

I'm hoping she'll cooperate because she wants the alimony and she knows I will tell the kids the truth so they will see her behavior for what it is.  (I've never had to put her down to them, but I very simply tell them the basics of what is going on.)

WHATEVER... read that back out loud and see if any part of it sounds OK, healthy and appropriate to you.
So you justify using your kids to manipulate your XW into behavior that benefits you?

Frankly Im troubled at your manipulation and justification with your ex, children, and entire situation.

[Matt]

Anyway, my concern is that if I start giving her more time with the kids as a routine practice - this may happen once or twice a month, for most of a week each time - it could eat into my time with the kids, and I don't think that's good for them or me. 

then dont do it,

Unfortunately "don't do it" has consequences.

I see four options:
1) When I travel I could do the ROFR thing, no compensating time.  Then I will have less time with my kids and she will have more - not good since she suffers from BPD and behaves accordingly.
2) When I travel I can find a professional to stay with the kids.  I think this is an OK option and I'm exploring it, but it could get expensive if I do it all the time.
3) I could turn down this job and find one that requires no travel.  That would mean starting my job search over, extending my time without an income (now almost 20 months), taking the risk of not being able to find something, and probably a much lower income.  Just not a practical option for me now.
4) Or I can make a good-faith effort to swap time with her, as we have done with some success so far, and try to find ways to make it work out well for her too - a win for everyone.

I am pursuing #4 with #2 as the backup plan.  If #2 works out very well - if I can find a good, cheap person - maybe a grandma in our neighborhood - then it might be the best solution.

well said, Why OH why do you feel any need whatsoever to 'get' her to do anything?

Because it would be best for everyone - the kids, me, and her - if we can make this work.  It would be best for me because I can take the job - which I need - and still have as much time with my kids.  It would be best for the kids because they will have as much time with me as they have now - and over time maybe more.  It will be best for my ex because I'll reciprocate - when she needs me to watch the kids I always say yes (and she never asks for compensating time so that is even better for the kids and me).

I think she'll cooperate, at least at first, and maybe we can get into a pattern of behavior which is practical.  Then I can probably rely on the kids to keep it going;  when she has disrupted our way of doing things up til now I've told the kids, "I will pick you up at 5:30 Friday" and that's what I've done - don't even talk to my ex.  But I think that will work best if there is a pattern set so they will think it's normal and she'll look bad if she disrupts it.

I'm hoping she'll cooperate because she wants the alimony and she knows I will tell the kids the truth so they will see her behavior for what it is.  (I've never had to put her down to them, but I very simply tell them the basics of what is going on.)

WHATEVER... read that back out loud and see if any part of it sounds OK, healthy and appropriate to you.
So you justify using your kids to manipulate your XW into behavior that benefits you?

Frankly Im troubled at your manipulation and justification with your ex, children, and entire situation.

I don't "use" the kids.  I tell them the truth - usually nothing about my ex but if they tell me she said something and it isn't true I tell them the truth.  They sometimes can see for themselves that she is not telling the truth, and they never catch me lying or deceiving them.  It doesn't happen much but once in awhile it does and I don't cover up any of her lies or buy into them.

If she does not cooperate with this, I'll take the job anyway, and find a solution.  But I know she wants me to work because she wants alimony.  So I think it's likely that she will cooperate - at least at first - and if a pattern gets set - a "new normal" - then I think it can be maintained by working with the kids, which has worked in other situations.  I no longer debate with my ex certain issues that were agreed to long ago, I just tell the kids "I'll see you at 5:30" and that's what happens - the ex is not directly involved.

I think "manipulation" implies deceit and I don't deceive anyone.

[DavidWebb]

Hi Matt,

With help from others on this site...I have learned it is how you could phrase it to your BPDx.

Instead of asking for the time in exchange...maybe something like this...(I know it makes my sick writing it, but it gets me what I feel kids need, and I want...

"Hi.. Thanks for taking the kids during my work trip. It was a pain being away, but think something good will come out of it.  I was thinking, since you were with the kids during my work trip, I was wondering if you would want some time to get some things done yourself? I am available to take them even for just a day if you would like"

I might be giving you a shout later this week...I find out later if mediation continues or I am in for CE...

Thanks...

[Matt]

Hi Matt,

With help from others on this site...I have learned it is how you could phrase it to your BPDx.

Instead of asking for the time in exchange...maybe something like this...(I know it makes my sick writing it, but it gets me what I feel kids need, and I want...

"Hi.. Thanks for taking the kids during my work trip. It was a pain being away, but think something good will come out of it.  I was thinking, since you were with the kids during my work trip, I was wondering if you would want some time to get some things done yourself? I am available to take them even for just a day if you would like"

I might be giving you a shout later this week...I find out later if mediation continues or I am in for CE...

Thanks...

Hm...this is a different approach I hadn't thought about.  It would probably work, at least sometimes.

There are a couple other things I could do...

If she doesn't agree to cooperate in general, I could raise the issue next time we meet with the "parenting coach".  That may be a few months away but I could probably get it to be sooner.

I could also document her refusal and take it to court to show she is not complying with the court order.  That would probably take a long time, and add conflict, and maybe cost if we use lawyers (and she probably would so I'd have to too).

Thanks.

Matt

[Matt]

I asked for ROFR and got it.  My ex's lawyer said, then we want it to - my ex didn't even ask for it - but we had to agree to it.  So it goes both ways.  My ex has never exercised it but I do all the time.  As a result, although the arrangement is 50/50, I have the kids more than she does.  I think that is good, and I want to keep having the kids as much as possible - S10 especially.  The Custody Evaluator wrote that over time he expects S10 to do better with me.  He said my ex may have problems with S10 (and I think he's right).  But he recommended 50/50 anyway because in my state that's what they do, unless I can prove she has been violent with these kids.

So my goal is to continue to have the kids as much as possible - more and more over time, if I can - and this issue is a big part of that.

I think you're right about a backup plan - having a good one would make everything work out better - but it would still mean I would see the kids less since they would be at my house but I would be traveling.  Swapping time would be better so I could be with the kids more.

[Matt]

Some developments here:

First, about a backup plan, I found a service that has a good reputation and apparently is reliable.  But expensive.  I will sign up just in case, and keep looking for a better option like a grandma in the neighborhood.

Also, last week I got the offer and accepted it, so I start work Monday.  There will be a lot of travel the first few months - most of the time during the week, and maybe an occasional overseas trip which means losing a weekend too.  After a few months, it should taper off somewhat.

I met with my ex and our "parenting coach" (mediator) and explained this.  I proposed that we make schedule adjustments as needed to keep things 50/50, which in effect may mean I have the kids whenever I'm home - including most weekends - and she has them when I travel.  That will be somewhat inconvenient for her and for the kids, but necessary under the circumstances.  She complained that I had not told her about this earlier (not true - I had already e-mailed her about it) and tried to avoid agreeing, but had no real reason not to agree and not alternative to suggest.  The psychologist talked her into agreeing to see how it goes.  Our next meeting is in April.

So far so good.  I already have one trip planned for this coming week, and she agreed to the schedule change I proposed.  It will be a hassle dealing with her on this - proposing a schedule week-by-week and hoping she will respond - her main passive-aggressive way to get at me is not to respond to my e-mails - but if that happens I'll explain it to the psychologist next time we meet and I think he will talk her into cooperating more fully.

[safetyfirst]

See if there is a local RSVP group in your area. Retired & Senior Volunteer Program. They are a branch of the Service Corps, like AmeriCorps.

[Matt]

See if there is a local RSVP group in your area. Retired & Senior Volunteer Program. They are a branch of the Service Corps, like AmeriCorps.

Wow, I hadn't thought of that either, but I bet there is - I live in an area with a lot of retired people.

Thanks!

Matt