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Author Topic: Do BPD men know how to love, or is it just a pretense to get you where they want  (Read 2050 times)
della
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« on: March 15, 2009, 01:36:39 AM »

Iv been seeing a BPD man for 14 months now and when he is 'normal' he says he loves me,  but then he chages and says he never loved me he is just telling me what I want to hear. When 'he is in his loving stage' he honestly appears to love me, but at other times he doesn't! How can he change so much? I know it is a characteristic of his illness, but i really need to know, is he capable of love?
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pallavirajsinghani
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2009, 01:48:29 AM »

I think that it is the egocentric love similar to that of a three year old child.  Is it true love, sure, it is, for the moment it exists.  It is not the mature love which giveth and taketh.  To me, it appears that the BPD love is totally conditional.  The universe exists only for them, and you are just a part of it.  You are there for them, they are not there for you.

Mind you, I state this not as a criticism. but as an observation.

I implore yoy to read read and read all the posts you can on this site and also read as much literature.books you can on BPD.

Please understand that all the love in the world cannot cure them.  The operative word here is cure.  However, specialized therapy called DBT is known to help them.  They must be committed to this therapy in order to learn how to control their abusive behavior.

Forgive me for the typs, zi am typing in the dark.

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Finding_Myself_again
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2009, 03:58:20 AM »

Hi Della and  Welcome! ,

Like pallavirajsinghani wrote, they have moments they feel they love you but it is indeed the feeling what they call love.  It has nothing to do with how a mature healthy adult would feel love.

Part of the game is their fear of being abandoned, once you come too close they fear you will leave so they push you away or leave you in order not to have to re-live the abandonment pain they lived in their past.

Don't think that by loving him even more and trying to convince him you will never leave him because you love him he will believe you and only give you I love moments, he will not get it, he lives in a different world. 

Until last week, I wanted to learn even more about BPD to be able to take as much pain as possible from my friend and just be there for him in diffcult moments.  He managed to push me over the edge 1 time too much.  Today I'm NC and everyday I realise more and more that what he called 'love me or care about me' was just fulfilling a need he had and even had nothing to do with me.

Take care of yourself and read as much as possible on this forum, go over the different boards this helps greatly in getting more insight in BPD and will help you to make up your mind.

Take care

FMA
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Auspicious
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2009, 08:19:01 AM »

If he has BPD, then he doesn't have a solid identity; a solid sense of self that persists over time through changes.  That's why his feeling of the moment is his "reality"; if he doesn't feel loving to you at this moment that must mean (he thinks) that he never really loved you.

Think of the brain as a machine that makes sense of things.  A mentally ill brain is broken (or ill tuned, anyway). It doesn't work right, but it is still going to try to make sense of things.  The "I must have never really loved you, I was just fooling myself" story is a way to make sense of things, without which they would have a very uneasy feeling of not being able to integrate the evidence of their senses.
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thewife
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2009, 09:10:16 AM »

With me it's ...I really love you,now what's in it for me attitude. I always get the, i work don't I ,I come home,don't I..I think in his mind he is more than wonderful and loving and he is sincere. He's actually very manipulating and selfish. 
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peacebaby
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2009, 09:48:46 AM »

I personally believe that a BPD diagnosis does not make one incapable of love.

I think when they get dysregulated they say things they don't mean out of self-protection.

Though of course I can't answer about your specific situation.

Keep reading and thinking...

Peacebaby
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Hannahbanana
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2009, 11:24:32 AM »

I personally believe that a BPD diagnosis does not make one incapable of love.

I think when they get dysregulated they say things they don't mean out of self-protection.




I agree with this take on it, somewhat, although i still don't understand why my ex told me he loved me daily for 11 months or so, then i don't love you and never did, for the next 5-6 months...roughly every week he would say this to me.  He never went back to saying he loved me, it was as though once he decided he did not...he never said it again, but still contacted me and pressured me in exactly the same way he had when he apparantly loved me.  I have no idea whether it was because he just didn't love me, or if it was because he said he did not, so felt he couldn't just change back, because i cried and cried and made a bit of a drama out of it all and i said "you think it is normal to just change your mind like that at the drop of a hat.  You told me yesterday that you loved me more each day, and today you are telling me you do not love me and never did...this is not the normal behaviour of a sane individual"  I even hung up the phone on him telling him that he had just confirmed his skewed mental status to me by changing his mind about something as serious as loving someone, all because they disagreed with a comment he made (this was prior to me knowing about BPD)  After that, he kept saying things like "i love the way you dress, or i love the way you do this or that, or i love you as a person, or i love a lot of things about you..i care about you or have massive feelings for you" but never again did he say "i love you"

His friend told me that he was advised by other friends to back off from me at one point, because he was diving in so deep and forcefully, that they assumed he would scare me off.  He said they knew he really wanted to make it work with me because he would not stop talking about me and that one of his friends had advised him to be less keen, as apparantlyt girls get too cocky and start taking the pi** when they know a guy is very into them.  He thinks my ex took it literally and in true BPD form, went to the extreme with it and messed everythig up.
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dados76
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2009, 03:25:46 PM »

to quote my partner:

'we're friends! I love you! I can't deny you anything, no i can't. you need a present, i love you i love you!'

'i'm not a fan of you today. ugh just go AWAY. i don't love you hardly at all today. stop bugging me.'

... and this is to the cat. wink
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Anna17
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2009, 06:57:35 PM »

I agree with peacebaby. Or, at least, this is the case with my BPDh.

He is a loving and loyal partner when he is stable. When "the demon awakes," when he is stressed or feels threatened or whatever and goes into a rage, he lashes out. I see now that the nasty things he says grow out of a need to protect and defend himself. They are not a reflection of what he truly feels.
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della
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2009, 08:48:41 PM »

thanks guys, I think I agree with Anna and Peacebaby. My BPDbf has even admitted to being impulsive and saying things to me that he doesn't mean and then regretting them later. I guess, in his way, this is an apology, an admission that he isn't always stable?
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della
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2009, 08:51:26 PM »

Also to dados, in reference to the cats! i have 2 dogs and he likes one dog the one day then the next day he hates that dog and likes the other dog!  lol
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DragoN
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2009, 09:02:48 PM »

Quote
I know it is a characteristic of his illness, but i really need to know, is he capable of love?
I would like to flatter myself and believe that they are capable of Love. If not, I would not hang around.

That being said^^^: Love is painful for someone suffering with BPD. Love is also about intimacy and trust. <--- Both of which are the crux of the problem for those with BPD. The deeper their love, the greater their pain. The more likely they will lash out at the one they love for fear of losing of them. Which is why and how they lose their partners. Yet this is the one aspect that they can't control. YOU.

It's a vicious circle.
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united for now
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2009, 10:36:45 PM »

One of our more respected members is someone who recovered from BPD and also dated a man who suffered from BPD. She sees things from both perspectives. She has written about this very topic in one of our workshops. Very insightful and thought provoking.

"did she ever love me?" http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=68978.0

I believe it can work either way.
Their black and white thinking means when they are happy, they don't process the hate or believe it.
When they are filled with hate, then they can't believe or accept that they could love you.
No middle ground, no balance between the two.

It also can come out as a form of projection, they are unhappy or mad at you, therefore they need to hurt you as they feel hurt, so they lash out at you (ever hear a child tell mommy "i hate you" when upset?)...

I believe with all my heart that my uBPDbf loves me... most of the time  wink

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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2009, 12:29:52 AM »

on a more serious note.. yes i do think people with borderline are capable of love like anyone else. tbh there are a lot of 'sane' people out there with serious boundaries and trust issues about love too.
one of my favorite things about my partner is how intense he is in his love for the people who are in his life. he feels everything in high contrast with the brightness turned up.. including love.
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supperone
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2009, 07:35:04 AM »

Do Men with BPD LOVE  ?
                      This is a question I ponder from time to time,I think if your BPD man acknowledges he has issues and gets DBT, there would be skills learned and it would be a better way of communicating to each other, which may feel more loving. My uBPDH is very fine denial and cannot except anything is wrong with him. While reading all the replies , I belive we are all different, when it involves love. Love is hard with the non BPD , we all have to work on our relationships, and I know there is no perfect couple out there. However I truly believe LOVE should not be painful, and it is with a uBPDH for me, so I am at a stage in my own life that I ask "Is Love Enought To Save US"?This being of course my own feelings as I'm really getting that my H can't deal at all,  and he sees I'm getting stronger, setting boundaries, and he is the one losing his control over me, its like he has the look of his world crashing, and all he does is wait, and wait, for me to make it all go away ! Years ago when I would ask the question "do you Love me?", His answer was "When your good I do", now had I had the imfo I do now, my skills would be so much advanced today, but I accept it is what it is and its time to love myself and not worry about his feelings. I believe I am getting the courage to do all I can for me, and once I battle my own fears, read books, and get T, I will follow the healthy path for myself and no longer be the enabler to the deepest pain inflicted into the core of my soul. It's your choice to stay in the relationship of 14 months, I just wish I knew about my uBPDH that quick, because right now after 35 years I find it so hard to just walk away. Good Luck,  Empathy  supperone
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thewife
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« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2009, 04:03:39 PM »

It's that way for me also.After 30 yrs this is not how I thought our life would pan out. We were to best friends forever,travel together.I think for me the fact it has been so long makes it really hard to just walk away and stay away. I have left twice and now only go home 2-3 days a week to clean,etc rest of time at my dads. I don't think he would notice if I did't come home. Maybe if I keep stretching it out he won't notice at all. I went to a lawyer and the first one wanted to take him to the cleaners if we divorced,I'm all for getting my rights but don't think he could handle me getting most of his money...he loves his things and his money,,they would probably have to shut down ebay.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2009, 05:01:24 PM »

I echo what has been said above: my uBPDw loves me until she has a meltdown, and then it's a torrent of unkindness (time for me to leave the room or the house).  Maybe that's the bottom line: that someone with BPD is not what you would describe as a kind person.  It's hard to feel loved by someone who, at times, can be so unloving.  Maybe that's the ambivalent feeling you describe, in a nutshell.  Ukeplayer
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rponce
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« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2009, 05:23:24 PM »

I think they love the object we represent. They are capable to love buth in a childish way, when we fullfill what they need.
I was and object, nothing more.
It was very hard for me to understand this...because i know i did LOVE HIM. and understand that he will never love the way i do.
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El
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2009, 05:30:59 PM »

rsponce
i had the same feelings.  I was an object. 

in out last converstion he said interesting thought.  "I know that you loved me, and you were everything that i wanted in the life but you could not give me yourself completly"
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